Of Magickers And The Nature of Magick

[Sweet_Savant]

Salutations and good e-evening, all.

*insert malicious grin and compulsive hand-rubbing here*

As a new player - well, as an almost-new-player-who-has-not-yet applied-and-therefore-isn't-really-a-player-at-all - I'm very curious as to the nature of Zalanthas' resident finger-wagglers and the stigma attached to their name. It seems as if anyone demonstrating even a minute aptitude for magickal workings is labeled a veritable pariah and deemed unfit to live; I am therefore highly intrigued as to the nature of magick and its willing (or unwilling) practitioners as compared to the normals or "mundanes" of society.

For example, in a group of tightly knit friends, if one were to exhibit magickal prowess - even inadvertantly, or perhaps to save the life of one his esteemed friends - how might we expect his fellows to react? In Allanak? In Tuluk? In the orderless desert wastes? Would they nervously congratulate their now-not-so-dear friend and then skitter away at the nearest opportunity; or would they perhaps converge on the unfortunate fool and proceed to paint the ground with his blood and vitals?

Also, on a side note, I've seen magickal workings and elemental planes referred to as "the horns of god" in the documentation - is this normal, ascribing *hated and ghastly* sorceries to a supreme and supposedly beneficient diety credited for all creation? (Come to think of it, a god who would create a place such as Zalanthas might not be very benevolent at all, but I pose the question nonetheless.)

I look forward to your replies.

Thanks,

Sweet Savant

[Kennath]

If your in tuluk and you have a gust of wind follow you into a tavern you'll be accused of being a whiran and killed. If your a open magicker in allanak but gemmed everyone will stay away from you, except other magickers of your element. And if your useing magicks in the dessert... they'll probably run from you going "OH MY GAAWWWDDDD!"

[facehugger]

For example, in a group of tightly knit friends, if one were to exhibit magickal prowess - even inadvertantly, or perhaps to save the life of one his esteemed friends - how might we expect his fellows to react? In Allanak? In Tuluk? In the orderless desert wastes? Would they nervously congratulate their now-not-so-dear friend and then skitter away at the nearest opportunity; or would they perhaps converge on the unfortunate fool and proceed to paint the ground with his blood and vitals?

Hmm.. these things often can, and often are, approached from a variety of ways. A lot of it depends on the mindset of the particular person who is effected, which can largely be effected by the society around them. In the northlands, there is such a fear and hatred of magickers, and those who associate with magickers, theres a good chance there will be a very bad reaction, ranging from complete future disassociation with said magicker, to running out screaming for a templar. Now, this isn't to say that perhaps this is your closest friend and confident, who might be willing to take his own life in his hand by being willing to keep said magickers secret.

In Allanak, it can be much more varied. The injured person may be healed and thankful and think nothing else of it. Or the injured person could have an immense fear of all things magickal, and feel that even though his body was healed, the magicker in some way cursed/corrupted/infected him - especially if its done without his/her permission. This latter example could result in anything from harsh words and an argument, to the healed person slaying the magicker and taking on a life-quest to purge the vile corrupting magicks from his body.

When you're going out into the wilds, and the tribals and nomads that live out there, you will find a mixed and widely varied set of reactions, from making it a point to hunt out and kill anything magickal, to embracing it as a part of everyday life. Your PC will likely not know what groups are prone to which reactions unless you're from that particular group and/or have them somehow included in your background.

Also, on a side note, I've seen magickal workings and elemental planes referred to as "the horns of god" in the documentation - is this normal, ascribing *hated and ghastly* sorceries to a supreme and supposedly beneficient diety credited for all creation? (Come to think of it, a god who would create a place such as Zalanthas might not be very benevolent at all, but I pose the question nonetheless.)

As far as I know, this is an old, old throwback to a time in the game where such things weren't fully as "defined" and flushed out. So far as exists on the common day knowledge, there are no gods in Zalanthas. The closest thing being the all-powerful Sorcerer Kings.

[Kennath]

As far as I know, this is an old, old throwback to a time in the game where such things weren't fully as "defined" and flushed out. So far as exists on the common day knowledge, there are no gods in Zalanthas. The closest thing being the all-powerful Sorcerer Kings.

The dragon had 7 horns maybe?

[Sweet_Savant]

Very informative, thank you both.

On the subject of the error in documentation, would it not be considered sage counsel to correct the discrepency if it is no longer valid? If there are no gods or deities save those on the throne, it might by a bit at odds with the theme of the game if some magicker starting spouting religious jargon about his power being attuned to the fifth horn of god or somesuch.
While in some primitive circles this might be considered appropriate given the fact that certain tribes doubtlessly give credence to some idol other than the two established god-kings, it might prove a radical juxtapose in the city-states themselves.

My thoughts on the matter, anyhow.

Also, on yet another deviation, would some of the more experienced players kindly provide some of their experiences with magick - nothing too sensitive, I hope - as I'm quite piqued by this whole subject.



Sweet Savant

[amoeba]

Also, on yet another deviation, would some of the more experienced players kindly provide some of their experiences with magick - nothing too sensitive, I hope - as I'm quite piqued by this whole subject.

Much as I usually hate this answer, this is best experienced IG.  You only get the chance to be suprised once, why blow it.

btw, welcome to the game.

[Kennath]

give a man a fish and you'll feed him for a day, give a noob a whole buncha docs and you'll entertain him while he starves.

http://www.armageddon.org/general/magick.html
http://www.armageddon.org/rp/magick/index.html
http://www.armageddon.org/general/guilds.html
http://www.armageddon.org/help/index_frames.html
http://www.armageddon.org/rp/magick/magickfaq.html

[Dan]

I say, try out a ranger or hunter from the north or south first off. After a few months playing this character, send in an application for an elementalist. The worst that can happen is you will be told no. You seem intelligent enough to handle the role correctly from your posts.

[Rindan]

For example, in a group of tightly knit friends, if one were to exhibit magickal prowess - even inadvertantly, or perhaps to save the life of one his esteemed friends - how might we expect his fellows to react? In Allanak? In Tuluk? In the orderless desert wastes? Would they nervously congratulate their now-not-so-dear friend and then skitter away at the nearest opportunity; or would they perhaps converge on the unfortunate fool and proceed to paint the ground with his blood and vitals?

There is a spectrum of reactions that are all flavored by the society where the discovery takes place.  

In Tuluk, you will likely find the harshest reactions.  Friends turning on friends and spilling blood would not be entirely uncommon, nor would friends running off to tell the Templars of the incident be out of place.  You need to realize that Tuluk was destroyed by magik.  After that destruction what remained of Tuluk was so weak that Allanak invaded.  Tuluk suffered a few generations of brutal occupation by Allanak before finally removing them.  Hence, the stigma against magik is unbelievably strong.  Every Tuluki would be brought up to hate and loath magik almost without exception.  A very strong friendship might trump their desire to see their friend dead, but any sane Tuluki would still be struck in terror by a friend possessing magik.

In Allanak, the stigma is a little less then in Tuluk.  In Allanak, a magiker who is NOT a delfier (delfiers are killed on site everywhere, not questions asked) is "gemmed" and kept in their own quarters.  The gem is a dull black gem that must always be visible and marks them as a magiker.  In this way all magikers are marked, but allowed to continue living.  There is a very hefty social stigma attached to them though.  If a magiker was to sit down in your average bar, it is likely no one would talk to him and the seats on either side of him would be empty.  The population is kept from trying to murder the magikers by their fear of them and by the fact that the templar control, use, and protect them.  In Allanak, if all of a sudden you found out that your brother or your friend was a magiker, you would likely promptly turn them into the templerate to get them gemmed.  Most people would disown a gemmed friend or relative.  Those that who would not disown a gemmed friend or relative would likely want to keep their relationship a secret.  People who spend too much time around gemmed are likely suspects of being magikers themselves.

In the wastes things very wildly.  Some tribes give magikers shaman like positions and value what they bring to the tribe.  Other tribes actively hunt down magikers and kill them without question.  The one constant would be that a magiker who is not apart of some tribal structure would be feared.  Magikers are extremely powerful in Zalanthas, and so always worthy of being feared if they are not known to be a friend.

Also, on a side note, I've seen magickal workings and elemental planes referred to as "the horns of god" in the documentation - is this normal, ascribing *hated and ghastly* sorceries to a supreme and supposedly beneficient diety credited for all creation? (Come to think of it, a god who would create a place such as Zalanthas might not be very benevolent at all, but I pose the question nonetheless.)

Neither Tuluk nor Allanak have any religion to speak of other then their respective worship of the their God-Kings.  Religion outside of God-King worship in the city states is for the most part banned.  You can get away with having some tribal beliefs in a city, but if you get too loud with them a templar is likely to silence you in a very unpleasant way.

The one exception to this is that most people talk about he personification of the elements.  The personification of the elements is not a belief in gods, it is just giving a name and personality to elements.  It would be like if you said, "Mother Nature is being a real bitch with the weather today."  You don't believe in a Mother Nature as a god, it is just a personification.

As to the documentation you pointed out, think of that as an academic analysis of magik.  Zalanthas has a very long history, most of which is forgotten by the vast majority of people.  Back before the rise of Allanak and Tuluk (we are talking 2000+ years ago) there might have belief in a god with horns and what not.  That might be the origin, but most will never realize that.  That said, it isn't terribly rare of elementalists to start subscribing a greater power to their own powers.  On the other hand, it is just as common for elementalist to simply accept that they can fling fireballs and control the forces of nature to horrifying effect and think nothing of where it comes from.

It should be pointed out that outside of Allanak and Tuluk, religious beliefs vary wildly.  The people of Allanak and Tuluk might not subscribe to any god or gods beside their own ruler, but people in the wastes tend to have a variety of beliefs.

[Sweet_Savant]

How prevalent, precisely, is elementalism and its exponents in the two city-states? From numerous posts dealing with this, I've seen radically different ideas on the matter. I understand that sorcery is strictly outlawed and somewhat akin to religious heresy in this atheistic world(or monothiestic, considering the two god-kings) - from that, I gather, there must not be many sorcerers at all there.  Elementalism, however, seems far more widespread, at least in the southern expanses of the world.

Would that be an incorrect assumption, given the invidiousness of the general populous?

[Kennath]

Sorcerors are VERY rare. I still have never seen one.

[Maybe42or54]

I've been killed by 3 and heard of 3 more in all my years of playing.
Atleast I think they were.
2 Were in the same room and only killed 1 Pc though.

Magickers are all over the damn place it seems.

[Jherlen]

In Tuluk, officially (as in according to the templarate), there are no magickers. All magickers are dealt with, and just asking questions or talking about or showing interest in magick, to say nothing of helping a magicker, is probably enough to make you disappear.

In Allanak, there's an entire section of the city for elementalists and elementalist temples. This doesn't mean that magick is common in Allanak or that your average southern commoner would be interested in or know much about magick. He knows that the people with the black gems can do crazy crazy terrible things and is probably afraid of them, for the most part.

Consider magick something very taboo... something you don't want to get involved with unless you have an extremely good reason. How a PC reacts and relates to magick is up to them, but the vast majority of commoners would be afraid of magick and want nothing at all to do with it.

[Halaster]

ArmagedonMUD can be a wee-bit difficult to get acclimated to and not the easiest MUD to play.  However, once you start to "get it" and get used to the game, you'll fall madly in love.

Having said that, there's a lot of complexities to the game that we recomend new players play a human warrior or ranger or some non-magickal guild, and start in Allanak.  It will take a little bit of time and playing to get familiar with the game and the syntax and such.

I'd recommend you do that before applying as a Special App to play a mage.

Welcome to the game, and I hope you make your first PC soon.

[Sweet_Savant]

As a matter of fact, I'm in the throes of the application process now, actually. And thank you for the warm welcome, all of you. I am very interested in the theme of the game - rest assured, my enthusiasm is not precluded to magick in any way - and have been delving deep into the documentation for awhile now to simply familiarize myself with the complexities of the game world itself.

Based on the general consensus I've managed to gather here, I've gone the route of ranger for my first character; hopefully it will be a worthwhile learning experience if nothing else. With some luck, I won't kick the bucket in the midst of my first gaming session.  :lol:

[Ktavialt]

With some luck, I won't kick the bucket in the midst of my first gaming session.  :lol:

Um, just don't be surprised if you do. Most of my first twenty characters died in an "Oh... hey I didn't know you could die that way" sorta fashion. Of course, I was a slower learner than most, I've seen folks live with their first characters for many, many, many play-hours.

If you need help getting accustomed, PM one of the helpers, or me.

- Ktavialt

[Cuusardo]

Something you, and everyone else in the world would know is that defilers are the most terrifying form of magickers out there.  They turn the land to ash when they use their foul magicks.  For all you know, they might just do the same thing to YOU.

[Maybe42or54]

My first gaming session lasted all of 4 minutes.
The second one, about 9 hours. And the death of my pc. I believe.

So watch what you say? Could jinx you.

[JohnGalt]

As a matter of fact, I'm in the throes of the application process now, actually. And thank you for the warm welcome, all of you. I am very interested in the theme of the game - rest assured, my enthusiasm is not precluded to magick in any way - and have been delving deep into the documentation for awhile now to simply familiarize myself with the complexities of the game world itself.

Based on the general consensus I've managed to gather here, I've gone the route of ranger for my first character; hopefully it will be a worthwhile learning experience if nothing else. With some luck, I won't kick the bucket in the midst of my first gaming session.  :lol:

If you survive your first twelve hours you're doing pretty good :-)  However, the game can quite literally be played without leaving one of the major cities without missing out on much.  My first 'real' character stayed in Allanak for literally 8 real life months, only leaving on two short occassions and only under heavy guard.

[Sir Diealot]

Quick note, to Savant.. Most players will help you out if you're acting the fool..  But some will take advantage of you.

Be suspicious of everything, we're (mostly) great people OOCly.. but assholes Icly.

[Maybe42or54]

And some just want to have fun. *read Mudsexx*

[Arabian Nights]

Or the injured person could have an immense fear of all things magickal, and feel that even though his body was healed, the magicker in some way cursed/corrupted/infected him - especially if its done without his/her permission. This latter example could result in anything from harsh words and an argument, to the healed person slaying the magicker and taking on a life-quest to purge the vile corrupting magicks from his body.

When you're going out into the wilds, and the tribals and nomads that live out there, you will find a mixed and widely varied set of reactions, from making it a point to hunt out and kill anything magickal, to embracing it as a part of everyday life. Your PC will likely not know what groups are prone to which reactions unless you're from that particular group and/or have them somehow included in your background.

I'd like to point out that is not generally considered very realistic or good roleplay for a single non-mage to go around hunting mages on their own. You have -no- idea what horrible and awesome things -any- mage could do to you with their strange and terrible powers.
*(Remember that most anyone who is out killing mages on their own are either not roleplaying correctly and acting on OOC knowledge or they are playing the exception, not the rule.)*

Just because you might know OOCly that this type of elementalist can do this or that, doesn't mean that your pc with their fears and IC ignorance of magicks knows -anything- about what they can do. For all most know, -any- magicker can turn you into a puddle of steaming mush with a wave of a hand.

Realistically, if -most- people were to be hunting down a mage of -any- kind. They would do it with several others to back them up.

[Ritley]

My first few characters died rapidly, and they still do. The longest I have ever have a char live is a playing time of three days, and a overall time of about two weeks. LoL.   Most the time it's a elf who does the killing. Sometimes a person who is a higher rank in whatever clan I'm in. Once or twice dehydration. Just be careful.

[Jacques]

My first character was killed after just over 3 hours of playing time... by a defiler. Ash and everything. Trust me - it was ugly, yet surprisingly quick. My second character lasted more than 75 days, and over 14 RL months. It's all in how you play it, and how lucky you can be.

Welcome to Armageddon!  

[facehugger]

Or the injured person could have an immense fear of all things magickal, and feel that even though his body was healed, the magicker in some way cursed/corrupted/infected him - especially if its done without his/her permission. This latter example could result in anything from harsh words and an argument, to the healed person slaying the magicker and taking on a life-quest to purge the vile corrupting magicks from his body.

When you're going out into the wilds, and the tribals and nomads that live out there, you will find a mixed and widely varied set of reactions, from making it a point to hunt out and kill anything magickal, to embracing it as a part of everyday life. Your PC will likely not know what groups are prone to which reactions unless you're from that particular group and/or have them somehow included in your background.

I'd like to point out that is not generally considered very realistic or good roleplay for a single non-mage to go around hunting mages on their own. You have -no- idea what horrible and awesome things -any- mage could do to you with their strange and terrible powers.
*(Remember that most anyone who is out killing mages on their own are either not roleplaying correctly and acting on OOC knowledge or they are playing the exception, not the rule.)*

Just because you might know OOCly that this type of elementalist can do this or that, doesn't mean that your pc with their fears and IC ignorance of magicks knows -anything- about what they can do. For all most know, -any- magicker can turn you into a puddle of steaming mush with a wave of a hand.

Realistically, if -most- people were to be hunting down a mage of -any- kind. They would do it with several others to back them up.

This may be the case for the PCs that you play, but you should not make such blanket statements for all players and characters. This is harsh Zalanthas. There are plenty of people lacking any form of fear of death. There are those who may be driven to things they would normally consider doing, when "cursed with magicks". There are people who attack templars, who rage against sorcerer kings. And yes, in game, there are even those who hunt magickers for bounty and/or sport.

So, yes, this can full be considered a realistic thing to do and can be the source for some good and fun roleplay.