Of Magickers And The Nature of Magick

[Larrath]

That blanket statement is appropriate for any 'normal' Zalanthan that lives in Allanak or Tuluk.  First of all, who said the only thing magickers can do is kill you?  They can eat your soul, turn you into a plant, bury you under a huge boulder and let you dehydrate, they can go to your family and your house and destroy everything in ten seconds flat.  Even if your PC doesn't believe in superstitions, everyone knows that magickers are fucking lethal.
Second, there is the Templarate, and this Templarate wants you to be scared of magick.  And they have ways to make you be scared of magick - especially in Tuluk where propoganda is pushed everywhere.

Second of all, there are PLENTY of people who are afraid to die in Zalanthas.  People in Zalanthas have such a strong will to live that suicide is almost unheard of, and impossible for most characters to even comprehend!

There are people that attack templars, but they never do this without good reason.  Same with people who go against a Sorcerer-King.  I can see some characters going after a magicker for a huge bounty, maybe, if they have a high education, but people going after magickers for sport...  This is like going to hunt a bear that owns a shotgun.  Definitely not sport, and definitely not realistic for 99% of all characters.  At least if they're not magickers themselves, anyway.

[Arabian Nights]

Or the injured person could have an immense fear of all things magickal, and feel that even though his body was healed, the magicker in some way cursed/corrupted/infected him - especially if its done without his/her permission. This latter example could result in anything from harsh words and an argument, to the healed person slaying the magicker and taking on a life-quest to purge the vile corrupting magicks from his body.

When you're going out into the wilds, and the tribals and nomads that live out there, you will find a mixed and widely varied set of reactions, from making it a point to hunt out and kill anything magickal, to embracing it as a part of everyday life. Your PC will likely not know what groups are prone to which reactions unless you're from that particular group and/or have them somehow included in your background.

I'd like to point out that is not generally considered very realistic or good roleplay for a single non-mage to go around hunting mages on their own. You have -no- idea what horrible and awesome things -any- mage could do to you with their strange and terrible powers.
*(Remember that most anyone who is out killing mages on their own are either not roleplaying correctly and acting on OOC knowledge or they are playing the exception, not the rule.)*

Just because you might know OOCly that this type of elementalist can do this or that, doesn't mean that your pc with their fears and IC ignorance of magicks knows -anything- about what they can do. For all most know, -any- magicker can turn you into a puddle of steaming mush with a wave of a hand.

Realistically, if -most- people were to be hunting down a mage of -any- kind. They would do it with several others to back them up.

This may be the case for the PCs that you play, but you should not make such blanket statements for all players and characters. This is harsh Zalanthas. There are plenty of people lacking any form of fear of death. There are those who may be driven to things they would normally consider doing, when "cursed with magicks". There are people who attack templars, who rage against sorcerer kings. And yes, in game, there are even those who hunt magickers for bounty and/or sport.

So, yes, this can full be considered a realistic thing to do and can be the source for some good and fun roleplay.

Your statements there and your opinion of it is the "exception" and should be rare. It should absolutely -not- be common for people to be out solo hunting mages and people having no fear of death is flat out unrealistic and uncommon as well.

No sane or "normal" character should be solo-hunting mages and having no fear of them. Characters that do this are the exception, and either have certain special circumstances that might have made them this way, are mentally unstable, or just flat out poorly roleplayed by people who don't understand the gameworld well enough to know how this should be done.

Second of all, there are PLENTY of people who are afraid to die in Zalanthas. People in Zalanthas have such a strong will to live that suicide is almost unheard of, and impossible for most characters to even comprehend!

Exactly.

[facehugger]

Your statements there and your opinion of it is the "exception" and should be rare. It should absolutely -not- be common for people to be out solo hunting mages and people having no fear of death is flat out unrealistic and uncommon as well.

No sane or "normal" character should be solo-hunting mages and having no fear of them. Characters that do this are the exception, and either have certain special circumstances that might have made them this way, are mentally unstable, or just flat out poorly roleplayed by people who don't understand the gameworld well enough to know how this should be done.

Well, perhaps you are missing out on the fact that PCs, as stated many times in recent threads, are the "rare" and "exceptional" cast members of the play that is Armageddon.

That aside, there's no reason it needs to be rare. The thing about fear is that it often leads to hatred. The whole, destroy it before it can destroy me thing. Plus, you're also adding in the "unknown and different" which only compounds the matter.

Saying that it's not how "the majority" do that is fair enough. But jumping right in and making statements that a new player could very well read as "doing something against the norm is bad/ignorant role-playing" is really unfair to said player.

And, going back to the original statement. I never said "turn mage hunter" I said "turn around and kill the mage that cast a spell on you". There was no mention of turning it into a crusade.

[Arabian Nights]

And, going back to the original statement. I never said "turn mage hunter" I said "turn around and kill the mage that cast a spell on you".

This is what we disagree with and IMO, is poor rp or OOC motivation for you to make every pc respond this way. 9/10 non-mage pcs should be running when they realize a mage is throwing a spell at them and they are alone. That one spell could mean your instant death for all most non-mages know IC. The knowledge that it is unlikely that they will kill you with a single spell and the knowledge that they most likely stand no chance against you in melee is OOC knowledge. In character, for all most non-mages know, a mage can touch you and you will die.

Attacking a magicker with a non-mage solo is about as normal and acceptable IMO as taking down a bahamet or mek solo. Codedly you can possibly do it, is doing it good rp? No.

I don't think it's right for you to be leading new players into believing that attacking a mage solo is the norm, which is how you are making it sound.

[facehugger]

I don't think it's right for you to be leading new players into believing that attacking a mage solo is the norm, which is how you are making it sound.

Please reread my post. I openly said that I agree that this is not the common/majority thing.

[Arabian Nights (2l2l)]

This may be the case for the PCs that you play, but you should not make such blanket statements for all players and characters. This is harsh Zalanthas. There are plenty of people lacking any form of fear of death. There are those who may be driven to things they would normally consider doing, when "cursed with magicks". There are people who attack templars, who rage against sorcerer kings. And yes, in game, there are even those who hunt magickers for bounty and/or sport.

So, yes, this can full be considered a realistic thing to do and can be the source for some good and fun roleplay.

I don't see anywhere in this post where you stated that this is the exception and not the rule. You clearly were in disagreement with me making the statement that is is the exception.

[Larrath]

This may be the case for the PCs that you play, but you should not make such blanket statements for all players and characters.
There are plenty of people lacking any form of fear of death.
There are people who attack templars, who rage against sorcerer kings. And yes, in game, there are even those who hunt magickers for bounty and/or sport.

So, yes, this can full be considered a realistic thing to do and can be the source for some good and fun roleplay.

This is the essence of what I, personally, disagree with.  First of all, PCs are exceptional people, but not necessarily exceptions to the rule.  In fact, most characters aren't - most Tulukis are extremely fearful of magickers.  No elves ride kanks.  No dwarves have beards.  No noble or templar that I've ever known about secretly sympathizes and admires the 'rinthis.
Some blanket statements can and should be made, and this is one of them - magick is frightening, unnatural and very scary, and absolutely no one in their right mind would ever try to hunt a magicker just for sport.

And again, I strongly disagree about the fear of death.  People aren't scared to kill other people in most cases, but they are very afraid of dying themselves, especially given the brutal manner by which most people are killed...and this goes doubly for people who go against magickers, templars and sorcerer kings.  If they're lucky, they get incinerated.  If they don't, they get incinerated over a month.

It CAN be possible for a PC to hunt down a magicker just because, but that PC would be a very rare exception and if you play that concept more often than, say, once an RL year, you're probably overdoing it.

[Rindan]

Perhaps a simple rule might apply when considering assaulting a magiker.  If it wasn't a magiker and it was instead a templar with one of their sick body guards, would you still attack?  If your character is of the mentality that that yes, under these circumstance if it was a templar instead of a magiker I would attack, then you are probably in the clear.  If on the other hand you wouldn't even consider it because it is clear suicide, you might want to consider if your OOC knowledge is seeping into your decision.

Personally, I have had a character that intentionally assaulted magikers.  That same character though also assaulted long lived half-giants, muls, raiders, and did all manner of foolish things, including assaulting a templar with his guards.  He didn't discriminate and made stupid decisions not because of OOC knowledge, but because of his character.  I recall thinking more then once as I threw this character into battles where I thought he was outmatched that this would be the end.  I could justify these actions because he was exceptionally strong, foolhardy, rash, and stupid.

I personally think that exceptionally few people would seek out a magiker to do combat with without being order to do so.  There certainly are exceptions, but I think most people would be flee if given the chance.  Of course, once attacked, trying to cleave a magiker in two is a perfectly rational response, especially for a soldier.  When put in mortal danger, fight or flight is a pretty basic human response.  I wouldn't question anyone who picks the former.  That said, if the magiker is attacking you, chances are you are already fucked.

[SewerRat_inTheOpen]

My own limited experience with magickers, the first time one floated past me, I froze. OOCily and Igwise.

Then I went to Tuluk, been there ever since.

[Cuusardo]

Contrary to what facehugger says, I do not believe that all PCs are exceptions to the rules.  There are a great deal of "fit in and play nice" PCs out there in all Zalanthan societies, whether it be in a city or out in the wilderness.

And on that note, no one should ever feel obligated to play the exception.

[facehugger]

Contrary to what facehugger says, I do not believe that all PCs are exceptions to the rules.  There are a great deal of "fit in and play nice" PCs out there in all Zalanthan societies, whether it be in a city or out in the wilderness.

Gees, I wish people would stop misquoting me.

I said rare and exceptional, the leading cast members.

I no where, once, said that every PC was an exception to any rule.

So, folks.. let's start reading my posts before jumping to misquoting, yeah?

[adrien]

Sorcerors are VERY rare. I still have never seen one.

you want to keep it that way lol

[adrien]

My own limited experience with magickers, the first time one floated past me, I froze. OOCily and Igwise.

Then I went to Tuluk, been there ever since.

I want to be as lucky as you.... i run into them day by day.......

[Anonymous]

The problem is that the OOC knowledge of magickers has spread to an extent, either by players playing magickers and then not, or through other avenues (coughIRCcough) that what the common (not saying all) magickers can do is known, so with the fear from an OOC standpoint diminished, the fear from an IC standpoint is dually diminished. Because frankly players are not as good Roleplayers as they think they are.


Here's an analogy.
Remember how scary the desert was your first time ever going out there ever? Each dune was scarier then the next the further and further you went out. Now if you are the majority of PCs, its likely that your fear of the desert decreased with each new PC and each new horizon that became known. Most players now know pretty much what to expect, and know that sparing an act of Staff, PC (rare when there is few on), Plot, or Randomness, they will encounter only this, this and that.

And the same thing has happened with magickers. Through constant exposure over several PCs, possibly playing them, and possibly hearing what they can and can't do through either your PCs or your player, you do not appropriately roleplay the type of fear you as your character would in reaction to them.

[Arabian Nights]

Through constant exposure over several PCs, possibly playing them, and possibly hearing what they can and can't do through either your PCs or your player, you do not appropriately roleplay the type of fear you as your character would in reaction to them.

I agree with this totally. I recognize it and try very hard not to let that knowledge affect my roleplay when it comes to magickers and magic. I think very few people recognize this and try to do the same.

*tips his hat to the Anonymous Kank*

[Synthesis]

I'm going to have to disagree with Anonymous Kank on this one.  After playing for nearly 8 years, what I've learned is that I don't know jack about either magickers or the desert.

The more experience you get, the more you realize that it's impossible to know what to expect.  No one is ever as safe as they think they are, and if you think you've got it all figured out, you're in for a rude awakening very shortly.

If you think you know what a magicker can or can't do, think again.  Discard what you've heard on IRC or from your friends who've played magickers, because they were either 1) Deliberately deceiving you or 2) Not as informed as you think they were.  You might get lucky and kill a newbie magicker or two...congratulations.  But one day you're going to see mist condensing around a hooded figure, you're going to think, "Bah, a Vivaduan. Easy kill," and then you're going to see the Mantis.

If you think you know what's out there in the desert, think again.  Sure, you might be safe if you stay in the relatively safe zones that everyone travels in, but the moment you step outside of that box, you're going to find that there are much nastier things than gortoks and scrabs.

I know, because I've been there.  At one point, I thought I knew everything and had it all figured out...but you know what?  I have 65 characters taking dirt naps, and the longest lived was about 25 days.  After 8 years of playing.  Think about that long and hard before you attack that magicker, or before you walk into the next room to see what that *strange shadow* is.

[Anonymous]

That wasn't really arguing with me. It said that people do think what they think until they are proven wrong. Which, while POSSIBLE, may or may not ever happen, and likely won't effect their playing style until it does. Im not arguing that. I think that cocky desert-speedwalker may one day meet his end at the hands of some raging unknown, but until then... he won't believe its there, or expect it.

And I did not mean to imply everyone was this way either. But rather a goodly majority.

[Maybe42or54]

And then he'll be paranoid like me of all things that don't look at me when they enter a room.

[moab]

Awesome post, Synthesis.

[jstorrie]

Synthesis is totally right. I've been playing for quite a while now, and the prospect of straying from the main roads while I'm out and about gives me the willies. And magickers? Surprisingly enough I don't have a giant database of what every class branches, and as such have pretty much no idea what any particular magicker is going to throw down. That's why my PCs tend not to be 'witch hunters'.