Wizards' Duel

[moab]

Emote when you can.  Don't emote when you can't.  I type really fast and can usally throw out emotes without interrupting the rest of my work (spells and special attacks being aliased to easy-to-type commands).

However, if I'm feeling things are pretty heavy, spammy or whatever, you can bet your butt that I'll defend / attack first and emote looting the corpse later.

It's not the best solution - but until there is a better combat system (whatever that might be) it's the best we've got.

[Tamarin]

Tamarin: and kill the other guy while he's typing an emote?

No.

And kill him FOURTEEN TIMES while he's typing an emote.

[naatok]

My take on this is to go with what your character would realistically do.  If you're playing a 'shoot first and ask questions later' sort of person, I feel it is more than appropriate for your pc to cut loose with the worst of his or her offensive spells to either destroy or incapacitate the opponent.  Immediately or near immediately.

If your character is more egalitarian (extremely rare in Zalanthas...especially in a magicker....not to mention a sorcerer), perhaps a more non-hostile approach is more appropriate....such as casting defensive magicks and waiting to see what the other does first.

If your pc is more the curious sort, perhaps motivated by some desire to have discourse with others who wield 'the Power'....perhaps some combination of the two paragraphs above is appropriate.  Or perhaps getting away to strike up a dialogue through the Way would be suitable.

Powerful magickers did not become that way by being less than extremely cautious....and most often...are paranoid beyond mundane imagining.

Just some things to keep in mind when playing a self-centered, evil, megalomaniacal mage or wizard.   :twisted:

[Malifaxis]

WTF... why is this a problem...

Looking across the barren sands, eyes narrowing, you say,
"It seems your magick (kung fu) is strong.  We would destroy each other, which would benefit neither.  Let us seek who is strongest."

The boulder laying obscenely before him, still glistening with regurgitated bile, the opponent says,
"I know the ancient technique of flesh of the mountain!  You have no hope of defeating me!"

Drawing back rapidly, energy crackling about him, you say,
"Your flesh will curl and char under the truth of Krath!  You do your master injustice with this posturing, let us see who is best!"

With a crazy awesome magickal build up emote, the opponent says,
"It is what I am preparring to do."

OOC'ly, you say,
"No, dude, lets go over and test out our pow3rz on that tribal."

OOC'ly, your opponent says,
"Die."

Zzzzaaaappp.  Crackle.  Pop.

Wiping his hands off as energy sparkles around them, the winner says,
"Sheesh.  Magickers these days."

--------------------

Seriously though, if you see this as a major problem, do what they did in the old days.  Actually challenge and lay a duel time.

High sun.  How does the code back it up?

"The searing ass of Krath reaches the pinnacle of its arc, shitting light down upon the lands, baking them like a kankpattie."

Boom, you both start casting.  You get TONS of time to lead up and RP until one of you dies... especially if you both show up at like dawn.

[Agent_137]

great idea for some scenarios. bravo.

i think we all actually agree on the basic need for RP, it's just some people have different ideas of how that RP is best put across.

Via emotes or via coded actions.

Like i said, though, if you have the upper hand and the iniative, EMOTE, jerkface. that's called being a polite RL human being.

[naatok]

I didn't say anything about -not- emoting.
What bothers me is that some people have gotten the idea that emoting in every single situation is good roleplay...and that not emoting in every single situation...is poor roleplay...or not roleplay.

That is ridiculous.  Hollywood/TV evil super villans may give the 'hero' a chance, but this is NOT realistic.  Not even close.  And I find that my enjoyment of the 'unreal' world of Zalanthas is heightened by characters that behave in a realistic fashion.

Realistic super villans/antagonists ALWAYS use the element of surprise, ALWAYS fight dirty, and NEVER...EVER give any advantage to their enemy.  At least not on purpose.

Here's an example:

Biff the Buff Super-warrior stumbles upon ancient ruins in the desert, reputedly haunted...reputedly the lair of the Vile sorcerer, Darth Spader...who happens to also be the murderer of Biff's beloved father.

Being the heroic, super-buff, super brave champion of Truth, Justice and the Tuluki Way he is, Biff kicks in the door to one of the chambers and rushes in to face the hooded and cloaked figure, emaciated to skeletal thinness.

Charging at the hooded and cloaked, skeletal figure with an angry, bellowing war-cry, Biff the Buff Super-warrior exclaims, in Sirihish:
"You vile fiend!  It is time for you to face justice...and then burn in the hell-pits forever!"

Now then...our vile supervillan has a few choices:

1.  emote erupts with harsh, bellowing laughter as he faces ~biff, his hands lifting out to point at !biff.

2.  say (erupting with harsh, bellowing laughter as he faces ~biff, hands lifting out toward !biff) Oh no, my brave, foolish friend!  It is -you- who are about to burn!

3. flee self (pick a viable direction)

4. emote utters an angry hiss as he bolts toward the nearest doorway with surprising speed.; flee self (pick viable direction)

5. emote Whirling to face ~biff, eyes blazing with hateful malice, @ lifts his hands out and begins chanting strange, arcane words; demonfire mon un biff

6. emote Whirling to face ~biff, eyes blazing with hateful malice, @ lifts his hands out and begins chanting strange, arcane words; (insert favorite incapacitating spell here) mon un biff

7. (insert some vile destructive or incapacitating spell here) mon un biff

Well, I'm sure we can all think of many more creative acts.

In my tenure playing vile magickers, my tendency would be to issue a brief, appropriate emote rather than talk, and follow up immediately with an incapacitating spell.  It is possible that I would cast the spell without such an emote.  It depends on the character I'm playing and the circumstances of the encounter.

If then our brave hero is rendered helpless, I would have our vile villan taunt and torment Biff for a time (if the situation supports taking the time for it).  The villan may...-may- even allow Biff to live after this encounter, but chances are...not.  After all...the fool has somehow found my evil wizard's lair.  Evil wizards simply don't let people walk away from such discoveries...if they can help it.

If death is ICly warranted, I would plan the most interesting death I can...such as a twisted, insane sacrifice of our hero to some vile entity.

Or perhaps feeding the hero to a slobbering, gibbering fiend of a pet creature.

The point I'm trying to make is.....just because your action in a particularly dire situation may be code based instead of an emote...doesn't mean it is poor roleplay.

Actions that a particular character takes should be based solely upon the personality and capabilities of that character.  Not on any OOC considerations, INCLUDING but not limited to 'I don't like losing my pcs, so I'm gonna cut this guy a break.'
Believe me, I HAVE fallen into such thoughts, but I am trying to break myself utterly of it.

THAT is ROLEPLAY.  That is GOOD roleplay.  When the actions you take as a player....are completely based upon the attributes of the character you are playing, and upon common sense and realism.

[Cenghiz]

I was killed by a defiler only once. He did not emote before the last spell which was my doom. And I should whine? Oh never. Before that, he showed me that his character was a well-played one, I should say he even put me to shame.
Should he have emoted? Nah. An army was behind him, I was also awake and able to kill him with a single chanting. I also wouldn't wait and cast 'mon un ....' but because of a bug my hp was -13 and I was still alive, which he probably didn't know. So I waited, energy swirled around him and I died.
The magicker I was the most proud of lived long. He gained power, maybe more than any other I had. Two times, three warriors decided to jump into my resting place and attack. They did not emote and it was OK, that was an ambush. I did not emote, it was OK, because my character would easily survive if I didn't slow him down with emotes. So he survived, as he should.
Just my two 'sids, one of which has a smoky aura around it.

[Maybe42or54]

Naatok, you forgot my favorite.

The figured person turns around and lowers its hood, revealing the decayed, but living remains of biff's father!

The figured person says, in sirihish, "Biff! I am your father! Save yourself!"

A shadow moves in the already shadowy room and a huge ass fucking mekillot sized fireball erupts from the doorway, consuming Biff's every  living cell.

[Sokotra]

I've had this problem come up when playing a raider more than once.  Majick or no majick, if you -know- that you will have a chance to emote when you enter the room or make yourself known, then do so.  But there are also many times where you -know- that you won't have a chance to emote... for whatever reason... (the target will immediately run, attack, or whatever).  Yeah, it'd be nice if there was some sorta -pause- button to give everyone a chance to emote before they spam 'run, e, e, e, e' or 'dismount, draw, draw, kill' or whatever - but there isn't, and nobody is perfect so this will happen often when the adreniline is pumping and you know what your character has to accomplish in a very small amount of time.  Therefore, often times I would find myself attacking first and quickly typing an emote where there are naturally coded pauses in the game... like after that first 'cast' or 'kill' command.  Is this wrong or right?  I don't know... why should I always have to emote creeping across the sands toward somebody if, by entering the room, I feel that my character has already done so - if that is the intent in the first place.  Yeah, your first concern should be to do that emote and try to RP out the situation.. but it isn't always possible.

[Fnord]

I didn't say anything about -not- emoting.
What bothers me is that some people have gotten the idea that emoting in every single situation is good roleplay...and that not emoting in every single situation...is poor roleplay...or not roleplay.

I learned this over time, after being upset a few times with no emote death scenarios involving magickers. Roleplay has many levels including consistancy, thinks, emotes, and more. We just tend to emphasize the importance of emotes because they are the most tangible for single encounters. I love creative emoting like anyone else, but have learned (painfully) to weigh it amongst other aspects of RP.

[Twilight]

Some people seem to have this idea in their head of a "scenario" that needs to get played out.  If you have this idea in your mind, and decent RP for you is fleshing out this "scenario", then of course you are going to want to see emotes.

I don't view my RP that way at all.  My RP is a stream of what my character would do.  This depends on the situation, and the personality of my character.  I'm not going to sacrifice that to have some type of "scene", sorry.

There aren't any rules about this.  For a reason.  I, as one player, can't even say how I would react.  It would vary from character to character.  Sometimes I might emote, sometimes not.  And the "scene" if you will, will play out differently, as it should.

I've had a character in a magick duel.  Neither of us emoted, and there was some damn good reasons behind that.  We didn't talk, we didn't emote, hell we'd never even seen each other before but we just flat out tried to hunt down the other and kill them.  And we had damn good reasons for what we did.

I've also managed to make friends with a sorcerer as an elementalist.

Emoting, in either case, would not have changed the basic underlying RP that was really driving things.  It merely would have added color.  And I use the term merely with intent.

[Delirium]

As a small side-note I think a magick duel would be a pretty fantastical thing to see/be involved in even without a single emote.  Maybe that's just me..

[wizturbo]

As a small side-note I think a magick duel would be a pretty fantastical thing to see/be involved in even without a single emote.  Maybe that's just me..

It is :-)

[Forest Junkie]

As a small side-note I think a magick duel would be a pretty fantastical thing to see/be involved in even without a single emote.  Maybe that's just me..

I'd be willing to bet that you never have seen a magick duel which lacked any emotes whatsoever. (I have, and it blew.)

Dueling another player and never casting reminds me of combat when more than 5 pc's are involved at once. It's pointless and reminiscent of my old H'n'S days. Oh, and it's not fun.

[Twilight]

I'd be willing to bet that you never have seen a magick duel which lacked any emotes whatsoever. (I have, and it blew.)

Like I mentioned, I've been in one, and it rocked.  Part of that was despite both of us having uber spells of doom, we both cast multiple spells before it was all resolved.  So it was much more back and forth than one person casts and the other dies (though it could have gone that way).  A couple of minutes of heart stopping action.

Dying to Naatok's evil genius was fun too.

[Ritley]

Alias the emote. "FE" fireball emote, "CWE" Create water emote, E.T.C that way to emote you would only have to tap in FE, and about four lines of emote comes up, then you can quickly tap in the spell. Sorted.
Edited to add: I personally have little experiance with magick, so, I'm no expert, but I think this might work to: Alias part's of the spell, for instance, C for cast, M for Mon, and, well you get the idea. Or maybe that's basic knowledge, I don't know.

[Xygax]

Alias the emote. "FE" fireball emote, "CWE" Create water emote, E.T.C that way to emote you would only have to tap in FE, and about four lines of emote comes up, then you can quickly tap in the spell. Sorted.

I'd rather see people not emote at -all- than spam the same canned emote with every spell no matter what.

Using an aliased emote is -not- RP.

-- X

ps - Simply emoting at all is -not- RP.  RP is portraying and behaving like an authentic individual, and emotes have nothing to do with that.  Make choices that suit your role and you're roleplaying, whether you emote or not.

[Ritley]

Yeah, s'pose so.  I have next to no experiance with magickers, just ignore me  :wink: But, I will remember that for future, incase I do have one, one day.

[Xygax]

Totally agree with you, but in life threatening situation's like that, it's better to have an aliased emote, than not one at all.

No.  You missed what I said, perhaps.  It is better in my opinion to use NO EMOTE AT ALL and get the spell cast, than to use a canned emote.

The idea alone of people canning emotes gives me the shivers, because it tends to indicate that you -think- emoting is RP.  You think that somehow vomiting forth an emote that you've now used for the 800th time while practicing your spells and killing ragged children in the 'rinth (not -you- specifically, Ritley, the -general- you, with you included) somehow helps you meet an imaginary emote-quota, by which we gauge who gets karma.

Don't think that.  Canned emotes are not sufficient (and in my opinion generally -detract- from the game).

-- X

[Ritley]

Totally agree with you, but in life threatening situation's like that, it's better to have an aliased emote, than not one at all.

No.  You missed what I said, perhaps.  It is better in my opinion to use NO EMOTE AT ALL and get the spell cast, than to use a canned emote.

The idea alone of people canning emotes gives me the shivers, because it tends to indicate that you -think- emoting is RP.  You think that somehow vomiting forth an emote that you've now used for the 800th time while practicing your spells and killing ragged children in the 'rinth (not -you- specifically, Ritley, the -general- you, with you included) somehow helps you meet an imaginary emote-quota, by which we gauge who gets karma.

Don't think that.  Canned emotes are not sufficient (and in my opinion generally -detract- from the game).

-- X

I read that bit, and quickly edited my post. Yeah, I understand what you mean, that's part of why I like armageddon so much, and I left shadows of isildur, because they believe RP was all about emoting, and the like. They even had "rules of engagement" which ment you couldn't be a assasin, or a brutal warrior, Shadows of Isildur is past, Armageddon is the Present, and the future.

[Xygax]

Yeah, s'pose so.  I have next to no experiance with magickers, just ignore me  :wink: But, I will remember that for future, incase I do have one, one day.

The philosophy here doesn't apply only to magickers.  Roleplay is roleplay regardless of emotes and regardless of your role.  You have to think about what's real for your character, whether he's a magicker or a burglar, or a psionicist, or a warrior.  Emotes can bring the world alive, and emotes can augment your RP, and creative, dynamic emoting can be an amazing thing to watch.  But it isn't the end of the story in discussing RP (for magickers or anyone else).

This thread bothers me a little bit, in general, because it seems to have fallen into a chasm of debate about whether a given event or encounter with another player exhibited enough --emotes--.  Here's the problem:  you'll never really -see- the real RP that goes into killing you.  The -real- RP, if it's good, goes on behind the scenes, as people try to sort out whether to kill you at all, and then plan their attack, and then prepare their weapons.  Even if you die in a heartbeat ("Holy crap, where am I?!"  *beep*), don't assume that your death was poorly RPed by your assassin.  If they have the luxury of giving you a drawn-out death (without fear of you ratting them out over the way, for example), then they may do so.  If not, they may not.

-- X

[Ritley]

And, my aim isn't to get Karma. Yes, I would like to play a Water Elementalist, but that's not why I play Armageddon about five hours a day. Also, I don't go around killing people for the sake of it, in fact I don't think I have ever killed with out a reason.

[Ritley]

Also, you must have seen my Rp logs, so you must know what I'm saying is the truth.

[Ritley]

Xygax you're very unpredictable, one minute you love me the next minute you hate me. I'm kinda like Marmite. Besides, I agree with you, but I was responding to his question, not to what I believe.

[Dalmeth]

This thread brings to mind a question that I've been thinking about lately.  Has anyone noticed how many people use emotes to cover up coded actions?   I mean, they do an emote that states the coded action and then do the coded action.

What do the rest of you think of this?

I find it to be highly redundant myself.  I also tend to have a sort of disdain for it, as it seems some people don't register coded actions as really happening if they're not emoted.