Atalatals

[Lohan]

Here is a question, Why aren't there Atalatals in Zalanthas? Bows sure but Atalatal seem to be just none-existant. I could understand in the south where there is little wood, but in the north?

meh just a thought.

[Marauder Moe]

Maybe atlatls just haven't been invented, or everyone believes that bows are clearly superior.

[I]

wtf is an atlatltla?

[Marauder Moe]

[joyofdiscord]

It's: "atlatl"  Two ATL's.  Remember because you are throwing the spear At The Lion!  At The Lion!  It makes your arm longer to greatly increase the force and velocity of your throw.

FWIW, it's one of the most basic hunter-gatherer technologies, invented WAY before the bow and arrow.  I don't see a real burning need for it to be implemented though, as it's rather obscure.  Also, would it work off archery skill or throwing skill?  Because it's definitely a ranger's tool, but throw tends to be more used by sneakies, I think.

[Cuusardo]

Aren't there already throwing spears in the game?

[joyofdiscord]

Maybe, but the atlatl is the other thing, the one that you don't actually throw, you throw with it.  We could always suppose that an atlatl might come standard as a virtual accessory to a throwing spear, much like a lockpick might come with some extra little tools, like a turner, to make it possible to pick with it.

[Maybe42or54]

Who needs that crap when you can throw 3 leagues?
And shoot up to 9.

[Lohan]

/me shrugs

It was just a question heh. Well I can't spell.  


BAD SPELLERS OF THE WORLD UNTIE!


anyways, I was just curious because Zalanthas seems to have awide variety of just stuff...And I have seen slings so I just was thinking....Thinking....

/me slaps self
Bad BRAIN BAD shut up!

-cheers

[richter]

Who needs that crap when you can throw 3 leagues?
And shoot up to 9.

An atlatl works by extending the distance the spear will travel when thrown.  Essentially, it's like having an arm that's a foot longer.  The force is therefore increased dramatically.  I don't recall the exact figure, but I think it more than tripled the amount of force in one's throw.  If you want a simple example of the principle, try throwing a pencil with only the action of your forearm by holding your elbow to your body.  Now, throw that same pencil normally, using the full movement of your whole arm.  See the difference?  That's what an atlatl does.

I once saw a man demonstrate an atlatl.  The spear was about six feet long and tipped with a flint point.  It's extraordinarily flexible, was thinner than a broom handle and could literally bend practically into a bow-shape.  This is because in motion, the spear actually does bend back and forth.  While it does this, it's got a lot of energy.  When it strikes, it ceases this flexing and the energy is transfered into penetration.

To demonstrate the man threw the spear, using the atlatl, with what seemed like too casual a throw.  If he'd thrown the spear alone with that little force, you wouldn't expect the spear to go more than say twenty feet and barely be able to puncture a piece of cardboard.  Yet he drove that spear through a large bale of straw so about two feet of the spear actually came out the other side...from a distance of about thirty feet!

It's a testament to the effectiveness of this weapon that it was used to take down thick-skinned megafauna like mastodons and mammoths so well that most scientists believe the massive extinction of such animals was due to man, not environmental changes (like those that probably killed the dinosaurs).

And the atlatl is far older than 10,000 years.  Homo sapiens first started using it perhaps more than 30,000 years ago, as atlatls unearthed in Europe have proven.  The name is of course Mesoamerican in origin only because that was where it was first observed in use.  Ah, what short memories humans have.  We forget such common tools that we only used a couple dozen millenia ago....

Take care,

Jason

[Lohan]

/me points up and nods

Yup

[Agent_137]

nice post, jason.

Lohan, why don't you look up the guide for submitting new items and ideas, and send it into the mud?

or, if you're the lazy type (like me) just idea it ingame.

Perhaps it will become a reality eventually perhaps it won't. but if you do either or both of my suggestions, it's FAR more likely to happen than just an obscure post on an overfull GDB that the right immortal probably won't see.

[Morrolan]

The atlatl is a weapon I would love to learn to make and use RL.

IG, I think it would be a cool weapon as well.  I believe it should come under throwing weapons, but I also believe ranger-types should get the throw skill as well.

I would actually argue that archery should branch off the throw skill for wilderness-types.  Heck, throwing rocks at birds to kill them, or throwing small clubs, is probably just as common world-wide as bows, perhaps more common.

If the altatl were to be implemented as part of the archery code (like slings are) then the could be written off the crossbow/sling code.  New type of weapon (atlatl), and a new type of ammo (darts/javelins).

Yes, bows are cool.  But they are tough to make, and made from materials that are pretty expensive in Zalanthas.  Atlatl's could be a cheaper alternative, like slings.

Aside: I know it would be a big kick to the code, and therefore a not-so-popular idea, but I think that all guilds and subguilds that get "archery" should get "throwing" first and have to branch archery from it.

Sure, those ninja-assassin types (assassin guild) get throw and use it for pointy, nasty surprises.  But it also covers spears, something that most wilderness types should probably know something (or a whole lot) about.

To sum up:  The atlatl is a cool weapon, and I think that it could be more-or-less written off the crossbow code. Decent range, but clearly less powerful than the crossbow in terms of damage.  Lighter weapon, but heavier ammo.

[richter]

The atlatl is a weapon I would love to learn to make and use RL.

I've tried using it.  It's difficult.  I couldn't get it down on a few attempts.  My best effort sent the spear about 15 feet.

IG, I think it would be a cool weapon as well.  I believe it should come under throwing weapons, but I also believe ranger-types should get the throw skill as well.

I would actually argue that archery should branch off the throw skill for wilderness-types.  Heck, throwing rocks at birds to kill them, or throwing small clubs, is probably just as common world-wide as bows, perhaps more common.

If the altatl were to be implemented as part of the archery code (like slings are) then the could be written off the crossbow/sling code.  New type of weapon (atlatl), and a new type of ammo (darts/javelins).

Yes, bows are cool.  But they are tough to make, and made from materials that are pretty expensive in Zalanthas.  Atlatl's could be a cheaper alternative, like slings.

Bows are a considerable advance over the atlatl because they can be reloaded and carrying a bunch of arrows is easier than carrying a bunch of six-foot spears.  Many skeletons of primitive man bear healed bone fractures in the limbs, body, and skull.  Anthropologists speculate as to whether these are the result of ritualistic combat or inflicted by the prey these people hunted.  Personally, given the learning curve of using an atlatl, the disadvantages compared to later weapons and the relatively lesser degree of bone fractures seen in later remains (bow-using cultures), I'm inclined to believe the latter cause.  Throw your spear and if you miss, you've got to either have another on-hand or recover your original (and a pissed-off mammoth probably isn't something I'd want to face while defenseless...or for that matter armed).

Take care,

Jason

[Maybe42or54]

Morrolan actually has a point, since wood isn't as common as it was IRL.
Spears can be made of any number of things as long as they are long enough. (I have seen some throwing spears 1 cord to 6 cords long, that I could throw)
Atlatl, while a good idea, doesn't have much need IG since we can throw three leagues already. If anything, it should be a RP tool, not a bonus to the code type tool.


It'd still be nice if throwing at someone, less than a league away, if it didn't auto-initiate combat. That always seemed like a dumb reason, if you were the spear thrower. WhY? You have lag before you can switch hands, and.. you could die during that one round of combat or so.

[richter]

Atlatl, while a good idea, doesn't have much need IG since we can throw three leagues already. If anything, it should be a RP tool, not a bonus to the code type tool.

Actually, it should have a bonus for damage.  An atlatl gives one much greater power, not just range.

As for throwing three leagues away, I've always felt that this distance should be shortened or that damage inflicted over a greater distance should be lessened.  An atlatl object would allow one to increase one or both of these.

Take care,

Jason

[Maybe42or54]

No thrown weapon needs a bonus to damage.

I have seen midgets throw a single dart and kill someone wearing a completely, head covering, chitin helmet.

I myself have been knocked unconcious just for being "the figure" to an NPC.

I have killed a few PCs with less than a handful of knives.