Nenyuk withdrew money from my Account! I'll switch Banks!

[mansa]

Hi.

I was thinking.  Actually, I was promoting conversation in the IRC channel because I was bored.  But this is what was said.

Nenyuk should start charging intrest on the money that they hold.  Why?  Because they can. Because it's a way to make money.  Because nobody can stop them.  Because that's what merchant houses do.

As a side effect, I believe, and so does others, that this will promote people to spend their coins more, instead of saving up for a long long time.  And, it will make people carry around more coins on their person.  This will help those thieves who want to steal a couple coins off people, aswell as help those raiders who want to make a quick score.

And, for those 'clan' bank accounts, those could be excempt.  Make better use of the clan aspects that exist in game.

Perhaps it will make too many raiders in the game.  Because they can get really rich really quick.  Perhaps it will promote more player-killing now that there's more score involved.  Perhaps.

What do you have to say?

[Larrath]

This was my idea.
And naturally, I support it.  Interest could be done based on how much money is in the account.

Accounts with 500 'sids or less could have a 10-20% interest, because poor people don't tend to have a lot of political influence and ability to harm the bank.
Accounts with 501 to 3000 'sids could have a 5-10% interest, and accounts with over 3001 'sids could have 1-5% interest.

The amount of interest needed to be paid will be determined by the lowest amount of coins that your account had during the month, with a higher rate if this sum is 0 - charge for opening an account.

There could even be an accounting fee that will take 1% from the account whenever money is withdrawn or the balance is checked - depositing is free.

[Ghost]

Nah, charge the dudes over 3k 10% as well.  That dude has so much coin, he would not mind losing that amount for the protection of the coin.

And this is really a good idea.

[Kankman]

I think these ideas reflext a free market concept that wouldn't be so prevalent in Zalanthas.

[Cuusardo]

I'm sure Nenyuk doesn't do it, because they know that they're going to get all your money anyway after you die.  They're very patient.

[Anonymous]

I think it's pretty safe to assume that Nenyuk makes its money primarily by having access to your money.

Charging interest on that money will dissuade people with a lesser amount of coins from depositing it thereby lowering the total amount of cash Nenyuk has access to.

So for accounts whose balance is below a certain threshold I think charging interest would not be a good thing for Nenyuk to do.  Above that amount I think is fair.

[My 2 sids]

I like this.  However, I think the cap you have on funds are a bit too low.  Due to costs such as equipment, housing, water/food, etc. the average cost of living is far above 500 sids.  I'd put the cap around perhaps three thousand.  Any less than two thousand and PCs wouldn't be able to afford the basics of what is sold.

This has more ramifications that making Nenyuk rich though.  Politically none of the super powers would want any one individual getting too much money.  One individual having too much money could gain too much power.

For instance, let's say Nenyuk has an employee who gets to be wealthy enough to gain power and favors; who's to say that employee won't suddenly turn and do something against Nenyuk?!

[facehugger]

Yeah, charging interest is silly. That isn't how banks work.

Banks take all your money.

They take your money and use it in investments. In Nenyuk's case, it would make sense that they use their money to buy/renovate/restore property. Which they in turn rent out and make money from.

And perhaps they invest it in businesses, perhaps loans to successful independant merchants. If anything, they should be giving account holders interest, to encourage them to deposit more, which would give Nenyuk more capital to work with, thus making them more money.

Same concept as IRL.

[mansa]

Yes, but 'BANKS' are a silly concept in Zalanthas.


...
[edit]
...

To explain, because you can't read my mind:

To have a place where you can put anything and have it be protected 100% against anything besides a templar or the corporation itself, its completely against the 'theme' of Zalanthas, where it is the struggle and survival of the fittest in a harsh desert world.

You can deposit money in there and never have to worry about it.

You can wander the city and never worry about having coin stolen from you.

You can never have coin stolen from you.

You don't need to keep a safe place.  You don't need to keep identity cards.  You don't need to carry any travelling.  Coins -are- heavy.  You can simply ride up north and THEN withdraw your 40 000 coins to purchase half a wagon from a drunken Kadian.

And the money gets 'taken out' of the economy when you die.  And we all know that the Zalanthas economy is based off newbie coin.

...

By introducing a 'intrest' fee in the banking system, (Which we are stuck with.  We are not going to have it disappear.) it will bring about changes to the players of the game to promote a change to the world.  I want to be able to see players hide and horde their monies.  I want to see players distrust the corporations and systems that they hold true to.  I'm not talking about CHARACTERS, the change I want to see is in the PLAYER behind the CHARACTER.  

We all can trust the coded system of Nenyuk right now, because there's nothing that can be done to it, outside of immortal hands, that can screw us over with our hard earned coin.  We can use and abuse it to make so much money that is unheardof in the world of Zalanthas.

The world is changing.  People want a flux in the economy, which exists in game.  There is capitalism coded in the game right now.  We're stuck with it.  I want to modify it so that it is better for the theme, because I want the game to be more cool, more superawesome, and more realistic than it is right now.

[Anonymous]

Yes, but 'BANKS' are a silly concept in Zalanthas.

How so?

I'll guard your money and you get it guarded for free.  With or without your knowing it I'll use your money to build apartments and then charge rent on those apartments making more money.

Or are you saying it's too modern/civilized of a concept?

[Angela Christine]

I prefer transaction fees.  

From some of the room descriptions it is clear that Nenyuk does keep written accounts, so they have to have clercks or slaves that are at least semi-literate (they might not be able to read or write a novel, but they can keep track of names, numbers, and straightforward concepts).  Getting literate or semi-literate slaves, the special dispensations or licenses to have the literate or semi-literate clerks, and paying to have secure inspected lodgings for the very valuable and potentialy dangerous people is expensive.  Paper and parchment are fairly expensive too (although ICly they can probably be cleaned and re-used many times).  In short, licensing and record keeping is expensive.

A small, say 10 sid, withdrawl fee seems perfectly reasonable to me.  Not enough to discourage people from keeping their money in the bank, but perhaps enough to discourage people from generating undue paperwork by frivilously depositing and withdrawing money.


Angela Christine

[Northlander]

Yes, but 'BANKS' are a silly concept in Zalanthas.

How so?

I'll guard your money and you get it guarded for free.  With or without your knowing it I'll use your money to build apartments and then charge rent on those apartments making more money.

Or are you saying it's too modern/civilized of a concept?

Nenyuk's too all-knowing on too large a scale to feel unridiculous. I don't think interests are the solution, I think limiting the bank service to houses, individual nobles and rich that have approached an agent is.

Yes, if you're easily omniscient, it'd make freemarket sense to take cash in from the little guy and hand it all back when he asks, investing in the interim. But staying omniscient for what must mostly be petty change can't. And the idea of giving a commoner money, whether it was his in the first place or not, seems anyhow very off. An OOC convention more glaring than the Way and less useful, possibly harmful, to our game.

[Realedazed]

I prefer transaction fees.  
<snip>
Angela Christine

I was thinking the same.  If there was a 10 sid charge for withdrawing, maybe people would withdraw larger amounts in fewer sessions rather than withdrawing small amounts in tons of banking sessions.   Since these people are making larger withdraws to avoid the charges, they may have more coin on their person more often.  Raiders will be happy, thieves would be happy, and so on and so on. I hope that makes sense.

[Cuusardo]

For instance, let's say Nenyuk has an employee who gets to be wealthy enough to gain power and favors; who's to say that employee won't suddenly turn and do something against Nenyuk?!

Let them try.  That doesn't mean they will accomplish anything.

[Seeker]

My own idea was to limit access to the Nenyuk's ONLY in the city-state where you are a registered citizen.  Think about it.

This way uses already existing flags, is likely easily codeable, and solves a bunch of other problems, like believability.  It still encourages coins on the roadways and in tribals' and d-elf's pockets or camps and doesn't inconvience the high and mighty, who Nenyuk is so eager to please, in the slightest.

There is alot to recommend this idea, and I put it forward again.  Maybe in conjunction with AC's transaction fee.

Seeker

[jstorrie]

How often do people in Zalanthas die?

Nenyuk makes a killing (ha-ha) just off reclaiming the accounts of the dead. There is, after all, no provision for handing that money down to heirs.

Nenyuk also makes a lot of money lending huge sums out to houses and templarates for large projects, as well as by spending the money it has in the bank on real estate and other investments that show large returns.

A little digging in the documentation and previous posts on this matter confirms it. If anything, shooing away the short-lived commoner and his idle 'sid would hurt the House. Why bother with interest? There are no rival banks in Zalanthas. Nenyuk is insanely profitable and has no reason to rock the sand-skimmer here.

[Swordsman]

This discussion seems to be going along a very OOC line of thought. Even though Arm is a low-fantasy setting, it is still a fantasy setting. If we exclude the fantasy elements, then sure, the concept of a worldwide bank seems unrealistic. But what if we include them, since they are in the game? Conspiracy theorists, over to you ...

Swordsman

[mansa]

A little digging in the documentation and previous posts on this matter confirms it. If anything, shooing away the short-lived commoner and his idle 'sid would hurt the House. Why bother with interest? There are no rival banks in Zalanthas. Nenyuk is insanely profitable and has no reason to rock the sand-skimmer here.

Because ALL the monies in the game are controlled by the Merchant Houses.  They control everything.  There is very little money in commoners.  They make up 6.98% of the overall wealth of the world.  The commoners are, in compairison to the real world, Kenya.  You don't care what happens to them.  They have no power.  They are so far away from you.  You don't care about the commoners.  You don't care about the commoners.  You don't care about the commoners.  You squeeze and squeeze and squeeze until they die, because you don't care.  You squeeze and squeeze and squeeze because you can.  This isn't a capitalistic society eventhough we try so hard to make it so.  This is Zalanthas.


What I hope to accomplish with this change I've already stated here.  I have more reasons for the change, which revolves around when you die.  Codewise, your money disappears from the game economy.  If there was a smart killer, he would kill you, then assume your identity and then try and make a withdraw of all your saved coins.  That can't happen right now, because of the code.  It may, with staff intervention, but what I'm proposing will eliminate the staff having to hand-feed us.  


Why will it change that?  Because we as players CANNOT stand to lose some money.  We live in Western Society.  We LOVE money.  We cry when we lose it.  And if there's some INTREST charge, we'll stop using it.  We'll keep out life savings on our persons, which will be ripe for the pickings.Will the game stop using it?  No!  Only the 'special' characters that we play.  We don't play nearly 0.13% of the total population of the world.  The rest of the virtual game will use Nenyuk faithfully, because that's all there is, and that's all they got.  Why must Nenyuk perfectly accept your money, hold it, give it back, and never lose 1 coin, no matter where or who you are?

Seeker's idea here is cool, too: http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=148965#148965

AC's Withdraw Transaction Fee might be something to put into game:
http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=148957#148957


Northlander's post is also very cool, and I think might work: http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=148958#148958

[Swordsman]

mansa: "Because ALL the monies in the game are controlled by the Merchant Houses. They control everything. There is very little money in commoners. They make up 6.98% of the overall wealth of the world. The commoners are, in compairison to the real world, Kenya. You don't care what happens to them."

With no disrespect to Kenya or Kenyans, Kenya is only one small country in a large world. The commoners of Zalanthas are a very large part of the population, so I don't think the comparison is accurate. Even if Zalanthan commoners might not have much money, individually, they will have a lot of money all together. A little money times a lot of people equals a lot of money.

While the Merchant Houses would make up a large part of the economy, business between commoners also happens, and I would assume happens a lot. Where do commoners get everyday water, food, clothing, tools, and other necessities? Certainly not from Kadius, Kurac, Nenyuk, or Salarr. From the other side, think of the two main governments and how much they would make on taxes and providing water. I don't think that the Merchant Houses control all (or essentially all) of the money in the game, and I do think that the commoners would 'control' a significant sum when considered together.

From my point of view, I'd think that House Nenyuk would care about commoners and their money.

Swordsman

Adding to clarify in response to Larrath's post just below: When I wrote about supplies above (water, food, etc.), I was writing about everyday supplies and basic necessities, as I noted. For most commoners, their water, food, and clothing would probably be their main expenses. Even if we think about 'adventurer' PCs, they'd still spend much more on water and food than anything else, over a lifetime. For most people, everyday water, food, clothing, and (non-weapon) tools wouldn't come from the Merchant Houses. Maybe as once-in-a-while luxuries, certainly. (As far as I'm aware, Kadius only really deals in high-class, luxury clothing.) Just a brief note.

[Larrath]

First of all, about supplies:
Clothes are most often bought from Kadius.  Salarr makes most weapons, armors and ranged weapons that people use to hunt.  Kurac makes supplies needed for going out to the desert, as well as spice.  Both Kadius and Kurac own taverns, and pretty much every single thing in Luir's Outpost goes through Kurac.
The governments do supply the water, though independent water sellers do exist.

Now, the fact is that Nenyuk gets all your 'sid when you die, and everyone dies in the end.  However, people don't simply hoard their money.  Commoners are particularly prone to put in 50 'sid one day and take out 60 in the other, and end up with 20 'sid in their account when they die.  Instead, Nenyuk could take 5 'sid for each transaction this commoner makes and end up taking 40 'sids by the time he dies.

And if the commoners don't like it, they don't have to use Nenyuk.  But if they give Nenyuk trouble, a few Nenyuki thugs might visit their apartment some night and tie all their shoes together so tightly that it will take them hours to untie them.  Those bastards.

[HardCarbon]

Most Commoners probably don't use the bank at all... 'pc' commoners are probably fantasicly wealth by any sane standerds...


As for the rich commoners...  well you don't want to piss off the Nenyuk at all either...  bank error are such a tragedy...

First of all, about supplies:
Clothes are most often bought from Kadius.  Salarr makes most weapons, armors and ranged weapons that people use to hunt.  Kurac makes supplies needed for going out to the desert, as well as spice.  Both Kadius and Kurac own taverns, and pretty much every single thing in Luir's Outpost goes through Kurac.
The governments do supply the water, though independent water sellers do exist.

Now, the fact is that Nenyuk gets all your 'sid when you die, and everyone dies in the end.  However, people don't simply hoard their money.  Commoners are particularly prone to put in 50 'sid one day and take out 60 in the other, and end up with 20 'sid in their account when they die.  Instead, Nenyuk could take 5 'sid for each transaction this commoner makes and end up taking 40 'sids by the time he dies.

And if the commoners don't like it, they don't have to use Nenyuk.  But if they give Nenyuk trouble, a few Nenyuki thugs might visit their apartment some night and tie all their shoes together so tightly that it will take them hours to untie them.  Those bastards.

[Eternal]

I could just imagine:

The Worthless Commoner exclaims, in sirihish:
"Lord Templar, a thousand pardons, but the Nenyuki have stolen my 1300 coins and won't give it back!"

Lord Templar Hard Nose says to The Fattened Merchant, in sirihish:
"Is this true?"

The Fattened Merchant says, in sirihish:
"Bank error in your favor m'lord."

Lord Templar Hard Nose collects 1000 coins.

Lord Templar Hard Nose points at The Worthless Commoner, motioning to nearby soldiers...

[jcarter]

I think this would spell trouble for Nenyuk. Why? Someone will eventually get pissed off and open up their -own- banks. Sure, Nenyuk could squash them, but then they appear to be not only strong-arming, but also have to spend money on hiring thugs and so forth.

If Nenyuk misses the competition and they begin to grow stronger, well, then it's going to start becoming a war. At this point it's already most likely costing Nenyuk more than its worth to fight it. Future groups will repeat the past and learn from the failure's mistakes, and -eventually- Nenyuk will be toppled.

If Nenyuk still thought this was a good idea even with the above scenario laid out, they would have to consider the reaction from commoners. After all these years, instituting a fee like that is going to piss off a lot of people. While they may just be commoners, they're all around. They work at the banks. They keep an eye over the vaults of money. They take messages and work as aides for the Nenyuk. But let's factor that out, and say that Nenyuk personnel are excluded from the fee. Try walking down a street when a city full of people is pissed off at your family's business practices.

Miltia members are pissed off. The barkeeper at your favorite tavern is pissed off. Minor merchants are pissed off. Mercenaries are pissed off. Many, many people are pissed off at you.

I think this would fall under the 'Bad Idea' category for Nenyuk.

[Jherlen]

The theory behind the idea has been debated a lot, I want to bring up something from the practical side:

Mansa is only partly right when he says people will be carrying large amounts of coin on their persons. They might. What's far more likely to happen is that people with resources (coincidentally these are also the ones with the most money!) will start keeping their coins in the safest place they can, which I expect will their clan hqs more often than not.

Why would Lord Fancypants deposit his 100000 coin stipend in the bank where he'll lose a fifth or a tenth or it just to touch it? He'll keep that heap of sid in his room for his silk-clad concubines to count for him, where it's safe behind his insanely-hard-to-pick lock on his bedroom door, which is watched over by his guards, and his Estate's guards, and his pc, npc, and vnpc servants.

On the other end of the spectrum, Joe House Guard will keep his life savings in a small pouch in his locker in his house barracks. Why? He doesn't get paid enough for some fat Nenyuki to line his wallet on Joe's hard work. Joe would rather keep his money in the barracks, where he is most of the time anyway, and where his other guards (again, pc, npc, and vnpc) will notice if anyone starts going through his stuff.

This seems a bit more Zalanthan than a bank where they instantly know who you are and nothing ever happens to your money, but since Nenyuk already has that now, and they make a bunch of sid every time some random independent hunter gets eaten by a tembo, I don't think they'd be smart to change.

[Larrath]

Gamewise, I'd rather have a huge amount of 'sids waiting in a second-floor bedroom behind five locked gates and eight uber NPCs rather than have the same amount of 'sids lying in a semi-virtual state where they're absolutely impossible to touch; or at least, impossible to touch without having to go straight through a House whose pretty much biggest concern is to keep the money safe using every mean that their nigh-endless funds could buy over a few hundred years.

Now again, the rich will pay small interest so it won't bother them as much - why should a noble care if his 30,000 account is turned to 29,700?  He can spend more just on a hat he'll only wear once.

And again, again, Nenyuk already has the money you leave after you die.  The problem is the money that you spend and withdraw between starting your account and dying - a sizeable amount usually, especially with NPCs who live far, far longer than PCs tend to.

I wouldn't even mind if this was added in a revisionistic manner - Nenyuk now charges interest and it's always been like this.  Tell me that this makes less sense than what we have now - a system where you can take 30k 'sid, put them in the Nenyuk for five years in Allanak, then go to Tuluk and take them all out, and then die without leaving the bank a single coin to be made.

[HardCarbon]

I think this would spell trouble for Nenyuk. Why? Someone will eventually get pissed off and open up their -own- banks. Sure, Nenyuk could squash them, but then they appear to be not only strong-arming, but also have to spend money on hiring thugs and so forth.

Unlikely as anyone setting themselves up as competition against any other great house..

If Nenyuk misses the competition and they begin to grow stronger, well, then it's going to start becoming a war. At this point it's already most likely costing Nenyuk more than its worth to fight it. Future groups will repeat the past and learn from the failure's mistakes, and -eventually- Nenyuk will be toppled.

 Which is why the great houses all are so paranoid

If Nenyuk still thought this was a good idea even with the above scenario laid out, they would have to consider the reaction from commoners. After all these years, instituting a fee like that is going to piss off a lot of people. While they may just be commoners, they're all around. They work at the banks. They keep an eye over the vaults of money. They take messages and work as aides for the Nenyuk. But let's factor that out, and say that Nenyuk personnel are excluded from the fee. Try walking down a street when a city full of people is pissed off at your family's business practices.

What and the prices the other houses charge arn't highway robbery??  though I agree that a fee would be a problem .. but on the other hand.. look at creeping ATM fees and Gas prices.

[My 2 sids]

The commoners of Zalanthas are a very large part of the population, so I don't think the comparison is accurate. Even if Zalanthan commoners might not have much money, individually, they will have a lot of money all together. A little money times a lot of people equals a lot of money.

And this is a great example of the danger of giving commoners a safe place to build up funds.  Sure, it's good for the economy to let individuals have enough to make purchases or perhaps bribe the common soldier once in awhile.  But, how dumb would it be for the government, nobility, and major merchant houses to let individuals accumulate enough coinage to be able to actually gain political ground?  

Case in point?  Why would that Byn sell-sword need thousands of sids if not to bribe some templar at some point? (Remember Zalanthas is a very paranoid society).

I think this would spell trouble for Nenyuk. Why? Someone will eventually get pissed off and open up their -own- banks. Sure, Nenyuk could squash them, but then they appear to be not only strong-arming, but also have to spend money on hiring thugs and so forth.

If Nenyuk misses the competition and they begin to grow stronger, well, then it's going to start becoming a war. At this point it's already most likely costing Nenyuk more than its worth to fight it. Future groups will repeat the past and learn from the failure's mistakes, and -eventually- Nenyuk will be toppled.

If Nenyuk still thought this was a good idea even with the above scenario laid out, they would have to consider the reaction from commoners. After all these years, instituting a fee like that is going to piss off a lot of people. While they may just be commoners, they're all around. They work at the banks. They keep an eye over the vaults of money. They take messages and work as aides for the Nenyuk. But let's factor that out, and say that Nenyuk personnel are excluded from the fee. Try walking down a street when a city full of people is pissed off at your family's business practices.

Miltia members are pissed off. The barkeeper at your favorite tavern is pissed off. Minor merchants are pissed off. Mercenaries are pissed off. Many, many people are pissed off at you.

I think this would fall under the 'Bad Idea' category for Nenyuk.

I don't think this rightly applies to the situation.

First, Nenyuk actually hires very few commoners.  It is much more efficient to simply hire slaves.

Second, An oppressed people just don't think about such things.  It would be like getting really pissed at your officer for lashing your back bloody the night before.  People can bitch and complain but as long as society's masters give just enough to keep the population satisfied, they can do just about whatever they want.

Why would Lord Fancypants deposit his 100000 coin stipend in the bank where he'll lose a fifth or a tenth or it just to touch it? He'll keep that heap of sid in his room for his silk-clad concubines to count for him, where it's safe behind his insanely-hard-to-pick lock on his bedroom door, which is watched over by his guards, and his Estate's guards, and his pc, npc, and vnpc servants.

Once again, paranoid society.  Lord Fancypant's own family might be very interested if he keeps a balance well over his allotted allowance.  They might be even more interested if he suddenly is trying to hide things in his own locked room.

[Cuusardo]

First, Nenyuk actually hires very few commoners. It is much more efficient to simply hire slaves.

First of all, slaves aren't hired.  They are bought and sold, because they are property.

Second of all, have you ever seen a Nenyuk slave?

Third, Nenyuk probably does the majority of the work themselves.  They KNOW that they will do it right.

And fourth, the major merchant houses are not paranoid, and they do not have reason to believe that anyone could ever topple the merchant "empires" that they have built over many, many generations.  They have FAR too much money and power to worry.

[Larrath]

First, Nenyuk actually hires very few commoners. It is much more efficient to simply hire slaves.

First of all, slaves aren't hired.  They are bought and sold, because they are property.

That's pure semantics and has nothing to do with it anything, you know.

Second of all, have you ever seen a Nenyuk slave?

The Nenyuk banks are loaded with slaves that scribble until their fingers fall off.

Third, Nenyuk probably does the majority of the work themselves.  They KNOW that they will do it right.

That's unlikely, really.  House Kadius doesn't usually send its own blood with the hunters because -they- can skin a jozhal just right, and I don't see why Nenyuk should send its own blood to dig up scrolls and mark '+50' and then dig up fifty other scrolls.

And fourth, the major merchant houses are not paranoid, and they do not have reason to believe that anyone could ever topple the merchant "empires" that they have built over many, many generations.  They have FAR too much money and power to worry.

The Great Merchant Houses didn't get to where they did purely by being good at what they make.  They also got there by being very good at destroying the competition.
If some jeweler started up shop in the Bazaar where he sold silt pearls to the nobility and cost Kadius a few big and important customers, this jeweler is going to end up working for Kadius, enslaved in Kadius, driven out of business, or dead.  Same goes for the rest of it - just imagine how Kurac might react to an independent merchant selling spice in Tuluk for half their prices and at large amounts.

[flurry]

I could just imagine:

The Worthless Commoner exclaims, in sirihish:
"Lord Templar, a thousand pardons, but the Nenyuki have stolen my 1300 coins and won't give it back!"

Lord Templar Hard Nose says to The Fattened Merchant, in sirihish:
"Is this true?"

The Fattened Merchant says, in sirihish:
"Bank error in your favor m'lord."

Lord Templar Hard Nose collects 1000 coins.

Lord Templar Hard Nose points at The Worthless Commoner, motioning to nearby soldiers...

Well..that could happen, sure, but then any of the great merchant houses could do something similar.   But I don't think Nenyuk would see the volume of coins they do unless there was at least the perception that they were reliable.   Sure they've got a monopoly, but if they had a reputation for simply ripping off commoners, then commoners would be a lot more wary of handing over their coins like that.

I think if anything they might take advantage of the widespread illiteracy to fudge the numbers a little rather than be more blatant.

As long as people trust them enough to store coins in the banks, Nenyuk will get the coins in the end anyway.

[mansa]

...
I think if anything they might take advantage of the widespread illiteracy to fudge the numbers a little rather than be more blatant...

That's why I think there needs to be a change of some sort right now, because, right now, it's more perfect than any bank in Real Life.  It needs to have a change to fail and have a chance to be weak.

[jcarter]

Second, An oppressed people just don't think about such things. It would be like getting really pissed at your officer for lashing your back bloody the night before. People can bitch and complain but as long as society's masters give just enough to keep the population satisfied, they can do just about whatever they want.

Heh, never underestimate what a population can and will do. French Revolution, anyone? Didn't the population of Allanak almost riot when water prices went up?

[Delirium]

I've supported using the bank less for a while.

I like Seeker's idea, especially.

Nenyuk is providing a service by keeping your money safe and sound.  Why would they care about providing that service to some filthy tribal, especially? More compellingly, would that tribal TRUST Nenyuk with their hard-earned coins?  Everybody knows you can't trust people from the cities, and vice versa.

That tribal's couple large is just a drop in the ocean to them, I suspect.

[Angela Christine]

Case in point?  Why would that Byn sell-sword need thousands of sids if not to bribe some templar at some point?

Because he doesn't plan to die.  Oh, he knows sudden death is a possibility, perhaps even a probability, but like most people doesn't really expect it to happen  to him.  What is worse than sudden death?  Getting injured, maimed, sick or old and having no money, and no way to make money.  The Byn might look after him for a while, let him keep eating mystery stew and sleeping on a pallet in return for helping to train new recruits, but that isn't what you'd call security.   The situation is even worse for people who do high risk, high reward work independantly.  An independant hunter, herbalist, scavenger, explorer, burglar, spicer, etc., can make good money, but if something goes wrong they have no back up.  Eventually you won't be able to do the work you do now, at which point you may need to have something to fall back on.


Or those thousands of 'sids might be intended for less disasterous purposes.  Perhaps he wants to settle down and have a family some day, but he'd like most of the kids that are born to make it past 5 years old, and that takes money.  Or he might want to be able to afford a multi-room home, so that everyone doesn't have to sleep in the same room together.  He might have a dream to start his own buisness, with a shop, stall, or wagon, and he has to save a ton of money first to cover start up costs (which could include bribes).  People do have uses for money other than fancy swords.



I'm not sure that Nenyuk does keep all your money when you die.  Sure, if no one makes a claim they do, but what about people that have family?  Certainly they don't get to keep all the money in a noble's personal account when he dies, the familiy would expect it to be (virtually) transfered into the House account.  Both merchant and noble houses have high ranking employees who handle house funds, so they could make a claim against any funds left in the account when Advisor Amos dies.  Large employers might routinely arrange to have a dead (non-PC) employees assets and property returned to her family as part of their benefits package  (some might even offer a death bonus, but not a pension, to the families soldiers and other employees who die in the service of House or the City).  The people most likely to leave a significant amount in their accounts are also the people most likely to leave behind heirs with some influence.  In those cases it seems much more likely that they would withold a "transfer fee" rather than to try to keep the whole account.  This doesn't happen much for PCs because the records aren't actually kept at the bank but instead as part of the character sheet, but PCs are odd ducks all around, so what happens with the rest of the population is probably a little different.


Angela Christine

[Anonymous]

Nenyuk is providing a service by keeping your money safe and sound. Why would they care about providing that service to some filthy tribal, especially?

Because the more that filthy tribal brings sid and his tribemates follow suit the more sid Nenyuk has to draw on.

Am I the only one that doesn't think Nenyuk is run like a charity?  They are getting your money for free whereas in our day banks pay you to put your money with them.

More compellingly, would that tribal TRUST Nenyuk with their hard-earned coins?

That's a question I answered for my tribal PCs everytime I played them but I don't think it has anything to do with whether or not Nenyuk makes sense in it's current form.

That tribal's couple large is just a drop in the ocean to them, I suspect.

But when you add up an entire tribe, it matters.
I look at it like this, if Nenyuk starts razing the little guy's bank account word will spread and they'd see more and more withdrawals.  And sure, that little guy's pittance doesn't add up to much but when you consider the fact that the little guy comprises the vast majority of two cities whose populations number around 500k each (as I believe was posted here by a staff member) it behooves Nenyuk to not play games.

In short, why would you rip off a current customer at the risk of losing future business from both that person and those around them which will surely add up to more than the two hundred sid he's got collecting dust in the backroom?

I think in the quest to differentiate our world from Zalanthas people sometimes forget that even in our own medieval days educated people had a better grasp on economics and math than John and Mary from 2005 who work the calculator to do their income tax.  Nenyuk has a good business model to me.  Millions of sid under their care to invest and make more money out of while having a smaller overhead than Salarr, Kadius and Kurac.  Salarr and Kadius need to employ people and deal with raw materials whereas Kurac has Luir's to keep going.  Nenyuk is just people guarding and keeping track of coin that they can basically do whatever they please with.

[Nenyuki Agent]

Hi there! I'm playing a Nenyuk PC right now, and have been reading this thread with an interesting mix of amusement and dismay. I have only the following short comment to offer:

Using the clan documents and my recent RP experiences as my guide, I will say that most of the things that people have stated in this thread about how the House does business, views the remainder of the world, and thinks in general are not correct. However, most of the correct answers are IC information and are not suitable for posting here. I will simply say that things are not always as you perceive them to be, particularly through a modern capitalist attitude, and leave the rest to be discovered in-game.

[Incognito]

Nenyuk charging interest on deposits is something that probably would not happen, in my opinion.

I do not know of House Nenyuk's intricate operations, but here's a simple scenario.

1) The banks of the House hold deposits for various "clients".
2) The House uses those liquid funds to "rent" property in various City-states from the templarate (including palm-greasing).
3) In turn, the House rents out those properties to others, at a profit.

So, even though Nenyuk might not be charging you a fee to stash your sids with their bank, they might very well be making money of the bulk of the deposits, in an indirect manner.

Not to mention:
4) Since no provision is made for accounts of dead people, all that surplus money is quietly transferred into the House's personal coffers.

[mansa]

How about just a minimum balance of 1500 coins?

[picklehead]

How about just a minimum balance of 1500 coins?

I can't imagine any reason why Nenyuk would want to do that.. as CRW mentioned, average Joe's 200 coins isn't much, but when you multiply it by all the number of other average Joe's out there it comes to be a sizeable amount of money.

I've never really had a character who was pulling in so much coin that he could afford to have fees and percentages taken out. I think if people started getting gouged by the bank they'd just stop putting money there and the Nenyuk's would find themselves with less coin to throw at their various investments. Clanned people and those with other established resources would be able to find alternate ways to safeguard their coin. The only ones who would suffer would be new characters and independents.

Most people trust the bank with their money. This is a good thing for Nenyuk to want to keep going.. when people don't trust the bank and you start getting more withdrawals than deposits, eventually the bank is going to go under.

[Northlander]

One reason they'd do it is that even fat-brained psionicist skulls ought have a hard time keeping track of the entire known world population's account balances.  With the banks as they are now, only queues would put even a beggar off securing his singles in there. Queues aren't a factor for the PC population, but I'd as well see that coded as any interest rate.

Nenyuk nonwithstanding, another reason for change would be how riskier money storage, and more money spending, makes a better game, opening venues for intrigue. The banks could at least have non-virtual, stone-doored vaults.
You don't always need an in-world reason to improve or change the game; why would six spells suddenly cost less mana?

[Bebop]

Banks are generally a little unrealistic in Zalanthas.  How can they all know they exact amount in your accout without any kind of phone system etc? I like to think of banks more as a "game" aspect then a "realism" aspect.  When it comes right down to it Geddon is a game, although addicts like myself don't like to admit it sometimes And in this game, you safely need some place to put your stash from time to time, it can be fined by templars and it can be stolen while on you so there -is- risk.  Besides technically when you die all the money goes to the Nenyuki.  So they make money like that if by nothing else.

[LoD]

I am against any changes that draw MORE attention to banks.

Banks, to me, are a playability issue.  They're also an anwer to what may otherwise be an endless request by players for new locks, coded NPC guards, hidden floorboards and trapped chests.

It is easier for players to place money into virtual vaults and pretend piggies than for Imms to worry about all of the player's requests to guard their loot.  Likewise, it gives people an easy place to keep their coin for lack of better code to "hide" objects within rooms or to save them between boots.

Imms have better things to do with their time than try to figure out an automated system for milking the wealth of the playerbase which they pretty much acquire anyway.  If you want to start charging interest, then you may as well start adding joint accounts, family wills and all of the other things that are going to go along with a REAL person wanting to secure their wealth against death.

This doesn't seem like the kind of problem that needs fixing.  If you do want to make the banks a bit more realistic, however, make a character that works for the House and, after several years, ask the Imms to allow you to make coin transfers between city-states every once and awhile.  Heck, perhaps just make stops at the various branches to discuss things with the merchants there and make sure everything is stocked.

That'd do more for adding interest and depth to the game over coding something up to force players to ponder solutions for protecting their wealth in a minimal environment for doing so.

-LoD

[Fnord]

This doesn't seem like the kind of problem that needs fixing. If you do want to make the banks a bit more realistic, however, make a character that works for the House and, after several years, ask the Imms to allow you to make coin transfers between city-states every once and awhile. Heck, perhaps just make stops at the various branches to discuss things with the merchants there and make sure everything is stocked.

That'd do more for adding interest and depth to the game over coding something up to force players to ponder solutions for protecting their wealth in a minimal environment for doing so.

Not sure if I'm following you... I always figured a great deal of Nenyuk's amazing inter-city money management is handled virtually via the Way, as opposed to physically moving currency. Or, did you mean something different?

As a side note, while I can imagine book keeping done via the Way insofar as numbers, I can't rationalize how they'd be able to keep track of names (and thereby associated accounts) without being able to read...

Regarding the OP, I think the banks are fine as is. It's a nice balance of serving their purpose and playability.

[richter]

Yes, but 'BANKS' are a silly concept in Zalanthas.

How so?

I'll guard your money and you get it guarded for free.  With or without your knowing it I'll use your money to build apartments and then charge rent on those apartments making more money.

Or are you saying it's too modern/civilized of a concept?

Well, the entire currency system is a bit silly.  Metal coins would make sense since the metal has value and can be reworked into something.  But once obsidian is used, it can't be recombined into a larger form later.  It only decreases in size as it chips and wears.

But accepting it as the form of currency, I would imagine people would invest their wealth in material possessions rather than keep coin on hand.  Transfering objects into cash when the need arises would make more sense than banking a bunch of currency.  That and direct barter.

Just my thoughts.

[Rindan]

Well, the entire currency system is a bit silly. Metal coins would make sense since the metal has value and can be reworked into something. But once obsidian is used, it can't be recombined into a larger form later. It only decreases in size as it chips and wears.

But accepting it as the form of currency, I would imagine people would invest their wealth in material possessions rather than keep coin on hand. Transfering objects into cash when the need arises would make more sense than banking a bunch of currency. That and direct barter.

Metal only works as a sensible form of currency if it is in abundant enough supply to be used as currency.  Think of how little metal is worth compared to a loaf of bread.  Even a little metal dusting in your hand would be worth more then a loaf of bread.  There is just no practical way to make a coin with metal in it.  It is far too valuable to be circulating.  It would be like if a nation used weapons grade plutonium as a currency.  Ignoring the health risks for a moment, it would be completely impractical in the sense that it is so valuable that you wouldn't be able to purchase basic cheap goods.

As far as obsidian, it actually makes pretty good sense.  True, it has no worth once it is a coin, but Allanak has been around long enough and been proven to be stable enough for people to accept its coin.  The supply and price of obsidian is fairly constant.  Further, the obsidian coin IS tied to something.  In the same way many nations used to have bank notes tied to gold, Allanak's currency is tied to water.  If you live in Allanak, there is really only one source of water – the Allanaki templerate.  If the templars say that you can only buy water with obsidian, then obsidian suddenly has a great deal of value.  Water is something that every single person in Allanak needs, and there is only a single place to get at an original source of water for most commoners.  Sure, commoners might resell used water, but with few exceptions, it all really comes from one place.

[richter]

Well, the entire currency system is a bit silly. Metal coins would make sense since the metal has value and can be reworked into something. But once obsidian is used, it can't be recombined into a larger form later. It only decreases in size as it chips and wears.

But accepting it as the form of currency, I would imagine people would invest their wealth in material possessions rather than keep coin on hand. Transfering objects into cash when the need arises would make more sense than banking a bunch of currency. That and direct barter.

Metal only works as a sensible form of currency if it is in abundant enough supply to be used as currency.  Think of how little metal is worth compared to a loaf of bread.  Even a little metal dusting in your hand would be worth more then a loaf of bread.  There is just no practical way to make a coin with metal in it.  It is far too valuable to be circulating.  It would be like if a nation used weapons grade plutonium as a currency.  Ignoring the health risks for a moment, it would be completely impractical in the sense that it is so valuable that you wouldn't be able to purchase basic cheap goods.

I never suggested using coins.  Rather, I pointed to the historical practicality of using metal as a form of currency.  Given Zalanthas' situation, it is impractical.  However, obsidian is a poor substitute.  That's why I suggested a more reasonable and realistic form of exchange would probably be barter rather than currency.

As far as obsidian, it actually makes pretty good sense.  True, it has no worth once it is a coin, but Allanak has been around long enough and been proven to be stable enough for people to accept its coin.  The supply and price of obsidian is fairly constant.  Further, the obsidian coin IS tied to something.  In the same way many nations used to have bank notes tied to gold, Allanak's currency is tied to water.  If you live in Allanak, there is really only one source of water – the Allanaki templerate.  If the templars say that you can only buy water with obsidian, then obsidian suddenly has a great deal of value.  Water is something that every single person in Allanak needs, and there is only a single place to get at an original source of water for most commoners.  Sure, commoners might resell used water, but with few exceptions, it all really comes from one place.

Given the weight and nature of obsidian, it is a fairly poor choice of material for currency.  True, it could be bartered for its value, which would make it a form of currency, but if it's being tied into a source of water for its value, that becomes troublesome when you take into consideration that anyone can make their own currency simply by mining.  Not quite the same as printing money.  Therefore, the obsidian's not tied in to the supply of water like bank notes were tied into a supply of gold.  In the historical example, you've got a manufactured currency backed by a resource.  In your example, you've got a resource backed by a resource.  So obsidian really isn't tied into a source of water since anyone can find obsidian (you can't go walking in the mountains and run across a vein of bank notes sticking out of the ground).

Take care,

Jason

[Rindan]

Given the weight and nature of obsidian, it is a fairly poor choice of material for currency. True, it could be bartered for its value, which would make it a form of currency, but if it's being tied into a source of water for its value, that becomes troublesome when you take into consideration that anyone can make their own currency simply by mining. Not quite the same as printing money.

Obsidian can not be bartered for its value as obsidian.  A small flake of obsidian is pretty much worthless.  Maybe you could fashion a spear head out of it, but other then that, it has no real value once it has been used.  The idea of making obsidian the coin does make sense if you consider that once obsidian is a coin, it is worthless.  Lets pretend for a moment that obsidian coins are very easy to make and that any idiot with a block of obsidian can pound out as many as he wants.  Consider the scenarios.

1)  If the coins you could make out of a block of obsidian is worth more then the block itself, then you would of course start making obsidian coins.  You could make obsidian coins and buy more blocks of obsidian to make more coins.  If the value of obsidian and obsidian coins never changed, then you could make as much money as you wanted.

2)  If the block of obsidian was worth more then the coins you could make out of it, then you are better off to take your block of obsidian and sell it for coins.  You wouldn't bother to forge coins because you are better off simply just selling the block for coins.

So, you have the two scenarios, what would happen?  Let's say it start out with scenario 1.  The coins you can make from obsidian are worth more then the obsidian itself.  People would start forging.  The supply of coins in circulation would go up, and a wise god king would increase the price of water.  Increasing the price of water makes those obsidian coins worthless.  So, if a block of obsidian could make 50 coins, and you could sell it for 40, you would want to make coins.  If suddenly obsidian coins are worth less because the price of water has gone up, it might be that you could still make 50 coins from a block of obsidian, but only sell it for 45.

Follow this logic, and a wise God King will be able to balance out his economy very nicely.  Simply increase the cost of water until forgery is no longer worth while.  At some point, the number of coins you could make from an obsidian block will not be worth the time and effort when you could simply sell it for more.  If you could spend a day making 50 coins, or simply sell it for 48 coins, which would you pick?  

This actually vaguely mirrors our world.  You use US dollars in the US even though the paper has no value.  You use them because of the fact that the government will only accept them as currency.  If you try and pay your taxes in sea shells, you will end up in jail.  Now, our system is significantly less controlled and has a wide number of factors that effect its value.  Zalanthas is sort of a simplified version of it.  Obsidian coins have value because the only way to get water is with obsidian coins.  The fact that obsidian itself has value means that you can set the values of the coins such that it isn't worth while to forge them.  Having absolute control over a single supply that everyone needs really lets you have a strangle hold on currency. If anything, it is superior to all other systems, as the government really has absolute control over the value of its currency.

[richter]

Given the weight and nature of obsidian, it is a fairly poor choice of material for currency. True, it could be bartered for its value, which would make it a form of currency, but if it's being tied into a source of water for its value, that becomes troublesome when you take into consideration that anyone can make their own currency simply by mining. Not quite the same as printing money.

Obsidian can not be bartered for its value as obsidian.

Anything can be bartered.  It's all about what the other person values it as.  If someone wants it, it can be bartered.

A small flake of obsidian is pretty much worthless.  Maybe you could fashion a spear head out of it, but other then that, it has no real value once it has been used.

And a spear head would be worth more than one flake of obsidian.

However, how big do you think these flakes are if you could make a spear head from them?  Arrowhead perhaps (if that), but not spearhead.  If they're that big, then it's ridiculous that you'd carry any more than a couple dozen or so.  If they're smaller, they become so fragile that carrying them would likely cost you a couple through breaking.  That's one of my points about the unsuitability of obsidian as a material for currency.

The idea of making obsidian the coin does make sense if you consider that once obsidian is a coin, it is worthless.

It's worthless as a material for manufacturing other things (excepting small things).  But given the nature of the material itself, it's not that good for use as a coin either.

Lets pretend for a moment that obsidian coins are very easy to make and that any idiot with a block of obsidian can pound out as many as he wants.  Consider the scenarios.

1)  If the coins you could make out of a block of obsidian is worth more then the block itself, then you would of course start making obsidian coins.  You could make obsidian coins and buy more blocks of obsidian to make more coins.  If the value of obsidian and obsidian coins never changed, then you could make as much money as you wanted.

2)  If the block of obsidian was worth more then the coins you could make out of it, then you are better off to take your block of obsidian and sell it for coins.  You wouldn't bother to forge coins because you are better off simply just selling the block for coins.

Again, one can find obsidian because it's a resource.  But let's assume for the moment that you purchased the block.  Everytime you make a knife out of a piece of obsidian, you're left with flakes which could become coins.  The knife however is worth a lot more than the block it was made from.  And in addition to a higher value item than the investment, you've got spare change left over.  You've manufactured currency as well as an object.  But your currency isn't backed by water.

So, you have the two scenarios, what would happen?  Let's say it start out with scenario 1.  The coins you can make from obsidian are worth more then the obsidian itself.  People would start forging.  The supply of coins in circulation would go up, and a wise god king would increase the price of water.

And how would they know the supply of coins in circulation is increasing.  If only one person's doing it, the amount will be negligible (though not for them).  If everyone's doing it, you get an increasing circle of inflation which would lead to a disastrous economy, not a well-managed or even viable one.  This is why a useful resource such as obsidian as form of direct currency is a poor choice.

This actually vaguely mirrors our world.  You use US dollars in the US even though the paper has no value.  You use them because of the fact that the government will only accept them as currency.  If you try and pay your taxes in sea shells, you will end up in jail.  Now, our system is significantly less controlled and has a wide number of factors that effect its value.  Zalanthas is sort of a simplified version of it.  Obsidian coins have value because the only way to get water is with obsidian coins.  The fact that obsidian itself has value means that you can set the values of the coins such that it isn't worth while to forge them.  Having absolute control over a single supply that everyone needs really lets you have a strangle hold on currency. If anything, it is superior to all other systems, as the government really has absolute control over the value of its currency.

Again, you're talking about a manufactured currency versus a piece of rock.  That's not to say that the obsidian couldn't be knapped into something other than simply a flake or "a piece".  But unless it's a significantly large piece (and this is where weight comes into it again), it's not going to be very durable.  I don't know if you've ever tried knapping, but it's not easy and the result is fragile (even large pieces will break).  Certainly a poor medium for something as well-handled as currency.

Take care,

Jason

[Ghost]

Again, you're talking about a manufactured currency versus a piece of rock.

...?  I think that piece of rock is pretty much manufactured as it is.  Check your inventory

A pile of Allanakki coins.

So, there is some kind of sign or something there.  MAybe a picture of the dragon and some...thing.  So it has a value as a coin, but it does not have a value on its own.  Like the difference of a piece of paper and a paper money.

EDIT:  ... Why can I not write in Bold in code?

EDIT II:  Thanks M42o54 and AC.

[Maybe42or54]

I would just qoute the MUD on that. Because Using the code one, it shows everything so that you copy it letter for letter and whatnot.

Onto the subject.

People have used teeth, sex, seashells, pretty rocks, SALT, and god knows what else as currency IRL.

What is wrong with them using a fragile rock as currency INSRL? (in not so real life)

[Angela Christine]

I think some people may be over-estimating the fragility of obsidian.  It is a kind of volcanic glass, but that doesn't mean that it is delicate like some blown glass ornament.  It is glass, but it is also stone, or possibly congeled liquid.  I would imagine the stone used in coins is selected, carved or treated in some manner to resist casual breakage, simply because you do not want all your citizens crippled by having their fingers continually sliced up and peppered with glass slivers every time they reach into their purses to buy a bit of food or water.

Pictures!
http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/vw_hyperexchange/obsidian.html
http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/mineralo/obsidian/obsidian.htm
http://www.cst.cmich.edu/users/dietr1rv/obsidian.htm
http://www.theaaca.com/lithnics/Obsidian.html
http://www.strawbaletradingpost.com/Arrowheads.html


(Ghost, the code option is supposed to display text exactly as written, so the HTML tags are not implimented).

Angela Christine

[richter]

Again, you're talking about a manufactured currency versus a piece of rock.

...?  I think that piece of rock is pretty much manufactured as it is.  Check your inventory

A pile of Allanakki coins.

So, there is some kind of sign or something there.  MAybe a picture of the dragon and some...thing.  So it has a value as a coin, but it does not have a value on its own.  Like the difference of a piece of paper and a paper money.

I'm going to guess that you've never seen obsidian much less worked with it.  Do you have any idea how long it would take to put a picture of a dragon on a piece of obsidian, much less thousands of them, each apparently quite small even if you had the use of a Dremel?  The little obsidian-bladed knife I have sitting on the table here probably took an hour or two to make and it's just a blade!  And if you did engrave something on it, you'd run a greater risk of shattering it, even more than without such design.

I think some people may be over-estimating the fragility of obsidian. It is a kind of volcanic glass, but that doesn't mean that it is delicate like some blown glass ornament. It is glass, but it is also stone, or possibly congeled liquid. I would imagine the stone used in coins is selected, carved or treated in some manner to resist casual breakage, simply because you do not want all your citizens crippled by having their fingers continually sliced up and peppered with glass slivers every time they reach into their purses to buy a bit of food or water.

That's the problem really.  It is fragile when it's small enough to be a coin.  With a little thickness to it, it can hold up a bit but is still capable of chipping (and likewise cutting) unless the edges are bevelled.  But it would work far better in a die-like form rather than a flake or coin-shape.  Those forms would be far to prone to chipping and cracking.

Again, we're talking about a huge investment in time to manufacture these.  They'd end up costing so much time to manufacture that the amount of newbie coin players start out with would represent hundreds of man-hours of work.  For use as something as commonly used and handled as a coin, it's just inferior material.

Take care,

Jason

[richter]

People have used teeth, sex, seashells, pretty rocks, SALT, and god knows what else as currency IRL.

In some of those cases, the object in question wasn't used as currency so much as an investment.  Currency denotes a medium of exchange, not necessarily a valuable object unto itself (ie, a ruby).

But in each of those examples, you're also talking about something rather durable (excepting salt of course, but even then it can be rather sturdy).

What is wrong with them using a fragile rock as currency INSRL? (in not so real life)

Again, note the word fragile.  Currency is something handled quite a bit.  It has to be rather durable lest your fortune literally crumble to dust.

Take care,

Jason

[Bestatte]

Help_Bestatte's_Pretend_Official_Docs wrote:

Game currency: The obsidian coin.
Obsidian by itself is fragile in real life. However in Zalanthas, obsidian is not the same rock as it is near your average Earth volcano - since, in case you haven't noticed, there aren't all that many volcanos on Zalanthas.

No, Zalanthan obsidian is a different animal altogether. Made in part from the core substance of the hot earth, zalanthan obsidian is melded by time with silica and silt, baked to a density not known or understood by any except the Nenyukis and the dreaded Black Robes of Allanak. The coins themselves have even different properties; rumor has it fashioned of powdered obsidian, mixed with silk and made solid with a glue of silt-horror spit and the sperm of the legendary giants of the silt sea itself.

There. Happy now?

[Maybe42or54]

Seriously. Everyone knows Tektolness has Ruk himself enslaved and works only to print the image onto the coins.