Karma and trust, How so?

[Halaster]

The idea that over time, with no bad account notes, karma be automatically given out. I'm not sure that's exactly the best way to do it, but there's something about that idea that I really like.

I don't think I'd award someone karma solely based on how long they've gone without a bad incident.  That's good for them, but it doesn't automatically mean they can be trusted for guild X.  However, it can still be an influence though in the decision.  "Bob has improved a little AND hasn't screwed up in 6 months.  Both of those together is a reason for a karma point".

I also agree with everything Bhag just said.  Some of the people who complain the most about the way it is are the very people who we've given roles to, more than once, and who've proven they can't be trusted with that role.  Maybe they were given a super noble role, but then told all their friends OOC'ly what the secret documentation said (yes, it has happened more than once).  Maybe they were given a powerful mage role, but all they did was sit around and sleep/wake/stand/cast for hours and hours without a shred of roleplaying (yes, it has happened mroe than once).  

Disclaimer:  I'm not saying that the people who have spoken their disagreement in this thread have done those things, though, by any means.

[Akaramu]

I find it interesting that most in this discussion that have cried the loudest are the specific people who have been given multiple chances to prove they can play responsibly and intelligently.  

TIME AND TIME again these specific players have shown they are not capable of handling even the most mundane roles.

I dont feel adressed by this, so I still find the karma system unfair.

[Dracul]

Do you really feel that simply telling them it is unfair is going to get them to change it?

I for one think the karma system is fair. How else could you go about it anyways, really?

I have a little bit of karma, but not much. In fact the karma I do have I got very early on, and haven't gotten any yet. So what. I don't care. I'd like to have a little more so I can play that mul sorcerer, and well, I already was accused of playing the elven mindbender...but...So what.
I'm sure the imms don't want to give me karma because they're afraid I'll out do them . Ahem, I mean.....

Really though, if I was an imm I think I'd be pretty insulted by this thread. And yet they've still all had amazingly civil, and insightful responses.

My suggestion to some of you would be to play with the attitude of 'fuck the imms'. Not in an aggresive sort of way...but quit worrying about pleasing and/or displeasing them in your goal of karma. Just enjoy your characters and play with the characters you meet. You'll have a much better time that way.

[Qetesh]

I find it interesting that most in this discussion that have cried the loudest are the specific people who have been given multiple chances to prove they can play responsibly and intelligently.  

TIME AND TIME again these specific players have shown they are not capable of handling even the most mundane roles.

I dont feel adressed by this, so I still find the karma system unfair.

I am sure if someone wanted to target you with this Akaramu, they would have. It was a general statement. We've all been pretty good with the responses on this thread.

As for it being unfair because you are a European player??  Meh.. Like I said earlier. Being an off peak player has disadvantages. If you think you are worthy or karma, ask to be reviewed. Done, fixed.

As for it being unfair because you feel you were slighted for something? Meh.. again. That has nothing to do with the karma system. That has do to with whatever incident you were involved in and is a personal issue.

As for you thinking that we should just delve out karma on the basis that you have been playing a year and have no bad account notes.  Meh, again.  I like the idea of a review flag for this being automatically generated. But no way should Karma ever be given out without review of the account. Just because the player thinks they are a good player, doesn't mean they are.


I'd appreciate it if the players did not lay the burden on us to review –all- the accounts in our database for Karma.  As is, we do our best to look at accounts, watch players and award Karma when we feel it is deserved. All it takes is a simple request to have us give you a look over if you feel you haven't been looked at in a while. Or just put on your review flag.  If you feel that is too much for you to do, Meh.. don't play, what do you want us to say?

I'm not a special little snowflake and neither is anyone else. I was always taught that you get nothing in life if you stand around waiting for it.

And as a side note.. Whineing does little to help your cause as well.

[Dracul]

Actually. Now I'll jump on the other side of the thread.  :twisted:

After a few of my magicker chars...and after my most recent one. I asked for a review of how well I played a magicker and if I made an improvements. (I ask for my account comments quite often, but that invovles simply looking it up and copy/pasting Im sure, although it does have to be read)

But...I emailed who had been my clan imm, the unclanned magickers imm, and my last clan imm. (I had been in a clan for a brief moment, and into another afterwards) And the mud.             I asked that I was still slightly unsure of playing that and I wanted either a simple pat on the back or any suggestions.

I'm very open to listening to advice, but I got -no- response. Sometimes things like those would make you want to prattle off...or on..hm. Although often I give the game a break, or when things in real life are more pressing Arm is only a game. And afterall I get that the staff is paid, they're only more dedicated armers.

So blah blah blah- look..I gotta go to work. So I'm gonna shutup, and I'm sure every staff member has work/ well...some...have a life .

[corona]

I'm very open to listening to advice, but I got -no- response. Sometimes things like those would make you want to prattle off...or on..hm.

I understand where you're coming from. E-mailing and asking for advice, etc and no response can be disheartening. But I understand people are busy and requests like that can be quite a low priority. But sometimes feedback can be wonderful in the way that it could improve the game for the player and those who interact with them. It's always good to know where to improve, constructive critisicm is always A+++ in my book. -Only- as long as it's constructive.  :wink:

[jstorrie]

If we're having trouble getting feedback and responses on a timely basis, maybe it's time to take on more imm staff?

Managing the entire mud seems like a huge job, and maybe people are just getting spread too thin.

[Vanth]

Also keep in mind that asking for feedback on how a character was played after that character is dead is not the most effective way to go about it. (Sorry if that is not the case Dracul, but your post made it sound that way.)  If the imms never watched that character, or didn't watch them enough to get a consistent feel, then there's no way we can offer any insight.  I have clannies I watch almost every day, and others whose playing times rarely coincide with mine, so I have little insight into their characters.

In general, I really don't have much to say if you're doing well anyway, other than a "good job, keep it up" and maybe pointing out one thing I really like or one thing I question.  On the other hand, if I think you're making huge mistakes, I will generally say so.  So usually, no news is good news.

[WarriorPoet]

If we're having trouble getting feedback and responses on a timely basis, maybe it's time to take on more imm staff?

Managing the entire mud seems like a huge job, and maybe people are just getting spread too thin.

Or, maybe some of us need to stop spamming the mud with every little inane idea or comment we have and in doing so free up the staff for more important matters. Char reviews and important matters are a different story, but these -should- be few and far between.

This isn't meant as a flame or jab at anyone, but I see this quite often: "Hi there, I sent three emails to the Mud last week, and I did not  hear a reply on any of them, so I sent a reminder. I still heard nothing, so I sent another email. What's the problem here?"

Maybe if some of us stopped the frivolous nattering at the staff, they would have more time to concentrate on their given duties instead of holding our hands.

Now, I'm sure alot of the emails are quite important, to you, and I know that the Immortals like to be kept informed of things. But, I myself have never required a ten email correspondance from an Immortal. Hell, I'm pretty sure that in my three years here I've only mailed the mud a handful of times, and only then because I had to. Has it lessened my Mud experience in any way? No. In fact, I think I'm richer for -not- needing the Immortals comment on every little thing I do or every little idea that I have.

I usually know what is acceptable. I also know that if I have something that is borderline I should mail the Imms and then go about my business, because compared to some matters in the mud, my headless/Mul/sorcerer application is worthy of the back-burner and little more.

I also have a large stash of Karma and relatively few bad notes on my account. Are these related with me not mailing the account or wishing up every chance I get? Probably not, but I'm sure it looks better to the Immortals than the other accounts around that are constantly mailing in to tell them about the UBER FUCKING COOL idea for a mul{Karma lacking} they had, or the fancy new obsidian knife desc they wrote up that is pretty much the same as 100 others already ingame.

I'll be the first to admit I know little of the staff's workings, but whenever I sit down to write up an email to the Mud, I try to make it as clear and concise as possible, just because I know how busy these people really are. And before I hit that 'send' button, I ask myself: Do the staff -really- need to hear about this, or can I bear down and deal with it myself? Chances are you can, and by doing so you may free up Bill the Immortal to watch you and I roleplay, or even join in, which he can't do if he's answering 100 frivolous emails.

Just something to think on. Again, it wasn't directed at anyone or meant to be combative at all. Just putting it out there. Keep your Immortals informed, but remember that you are only one of their many wards.

-WP

[Xygax]

The purpose of creating and filling staff positions isn't to provide feedback to players.  The very, very last thought with which staff members should be occupying themselves is of policing the players.  We watch you because we need to know what's going on in our clans to administer them, not to try to figure out if you deserve more karma or less.

We try to provide feedback when we can, and only when we have something useful to say.  Oftentimes, an e-mail sent to us by a player asking for feedback receives no reply because we may not specifically watch that character very closely.  Usually, this is a good sign that we aren't particularly concerned with your play.  If you want specific feedback on a particular event that you think you may have misplayed, include the (carefully edited) log in your e-mail with an up-front synopsis and your questions.

-- X

[skeetdaddle]

Xygax wrote:

The purpose of creating and filling staff positions isn't to provide feedback to players. The very, very last thought with which staff members should be occupying themselves is of policing the players. We watch you because we need to know what's going on in our clans to administer them, not to try to figure out if you deserve more karma or less.

Would this be such a bad thing? Having a few people on the staff dedicated to ensuring a quality role-playing environment by watching the players and awarding/stripping karma where necessary and whom might also provide additional npc interaction for players? Seems like an idea worth considering at least. Maybe they couldn't even officially award/strip karma, but just provide insightful recommendations to a staff member authorized to do such. Like a low-level imm, or something. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like this would really help bring the game world alive for everybody, encourage good roleplay by setting good examples with npcs, and give the staff a much better idea of who they might want keep an eye on - (whether for ill or good). I realize such a position would require a large amount of trust, but if the right people could be found for the job, why not?

Please note: This is just an idea. It's not meant to make anyone mad! A response would be cool, but I notice that quite a few tempers have been flaring up on this thread, so I ask that any responses be put respectfully.

[Akaramu]

I am sure if someone wanted to target you with this Akaramu, they would have. It was a general statement. We've all been pretty good with the responses on this thread.

I do realize it was general and not aimed at me. I just wanted to say that sometimes, the staff make mistakes, and sometimes I wish this would be admitted as a possibility instead of 'we are right, you are wrong, the discussion ends here'. I love the staff and I still have a lot of respect for you guys. But you are players, players are human beings, and human beings sometimes make mistakes even if 5 of them agree on something. And sometimes those mistakes make the system unfair.

As for it being unfair because you are a European player??  Meh.. Like I said earlier. Being an off peak player has disadvantages. If you think you are worthy or karma, ask to be reviewed. Done, fixed.

I wish I had known this a year ago. I was told (by experienced players, not by any imms)that the staff can 'smell' people who want karma, and as soon as they are detected as wanting karma they are pretty sure to never get any. I was honestly afraid of asking.

As for it being unfair because you feel you were slighted for something? Meh.. again. That has nothing to do with the karma system. That has do to with whatever incident you were involved in and is a personal issue.

It has something to do with the karma system when unfair account notes influence a karma decision, or a role that would help the player earn trust (except that they dont get the role because of said unfair account note).

As for you thinking that we should just delve out karma on the basis that you have been playing a year and have no bad account notes.  Meh, again.  I like the idea of a review flag for this being automatically generated. But no way should Karma ever be given out without review of the account. Just because the player thinks they are a good player, doesn't mean they are.

I never thought such, I dont agree with handing out karma for nothing but lack of bad notes, either. But there should be something other than the current randomness, maybe a regular review after half a year, with review flags being set when a player 'slipped' and was hardly watched at all for whatever reason, despite having played quite a lot.

I'd appreciate it if the players did not lay the burden on us to review –all- the accounts in our database for Karma.  As is, we do our best to look at accounts, watch players and award Karma when we feel it is deserved. All it takes is a simple request to have us give you a look over if you feel you haven't been looked at in a while. Or just put on your review flag.  If you feel that is too much for you to do, Meh.. don't play, what do you want us to say?

I'm sure I'm not the only player who was not aware of those 'solutions'. I always thought that putting review on is mostly for new players, and if more than a few players had review on it would make the imms go crazy over the amount of people having review on at the same time (and the watch work involved with it). For this, and other reasons, I have been very shy to use review at all.

And if it is such a burden, then maybe the system is flawed.

I'm not a special little snowflake and neither is anyone else. I was always taught that you get nothing in life if you stand around waiting for it.

And as a side note.. Whineing does little to help your cause as well.

Was I whining? Okay... I thought I was pointing out flaws, and tried to be constructive by suggesting an improvement to the karma system. Maybe I'm a little sour, but if the biggest fanbois turn into sour ex players after a year or two (I'm not the only one), maybe something went wrong somewhere, and I'm not sure this is 100% only the players responsibility.

Not speaking up on the issue and not knowing that I could didnt help my cause either.

Sending two polite reminders on my special app didnt help me get a response on it after 2 months.

And if I was still playing, I'd probably still be afraid of speaking up. Realizing that I was 'whining' helps me remember why.

[Qetesh]

To address a few more things here and this will be my last post on this thread.

First to repeat this again,  Karma is awarded for these reasons.

:arrow:  Degree of maturity and responsibility as a role-player, as evidenced by playing roles 'realistically.'
:arrow:  Knowledge of the game world, and an appreciation of the way in which the various races, guilds, and so on, interact.
:arrow:  Role-playing skill, as evidenced by role-playing in such a way as to show that they are really involved in the game world, and also enriching the game world for other players.

The staff doesn't look for karma sniffers, as was suggested. We just really don't care that much, we aren't evil, nor are we brainz eaters. Follow the guidelines, you'll most likely, eventually get Karma.

Are you the type that needs feedback?

:arrow: Review Flag See here Scroll down to review on the left hand colum.

There is what it does. No, it is not the "I want Karma" button, but it will alert the staff that you want feedback on your playing. It also might take a while for us to get back to you on it. No people who want to be reviewed don't turn us off. Why would we be upset at someone that cares enough about their play to request feedback?

If you feel you've been overlooked and you are doing an absolutely super job and have added to the Rp environment yet feel you have been overlooked? Email us at:  mud@ginka.armageddon.org or your clann Imms. Here is a list of who they are.

Still Confused, not sure how to garner Karma? Go back through this thread. There are lots of links in here to more info. Xygax put up a few really good ones in the beginning.

Here are the good ways to get Karma stripped and not get any:

:arrow: never use emotes
:arrow: skillmax
:arrow: Suiciding
:arrow: Unacceptable OOC Communication See here
:arrow: Not Following the General Rules


I personally don't think the system is flawed, the staff is busy and as the doc's state, Karma should not be your main goal, enjoying the game should be. That is our main goal as well, creating an enjoyable playing environment and keeping it running smoothly,  not making sure that everyone has their fair and appropriate amount of race and guild options.

If you are enjoying the game, playing it as it was meant to be played, setting good examples and enhancing the world, the latter should follow, not feeling that, see above.

If your enjoyment solely depends on you playing a character concept that you just love but don't have the Karma for? Send in a special app.

:arrow: Guidelines here:


With that, I am done with this thread, I can see little else that could be said by staff that hasn't already.

[amoeba]

I'd appreciate it if the players did not lay the burden on us to review –all- the accounts in our database for Karma.  As is, we do our best to look at accounts, watch players and award Karma when we feel it is deserved. All it takes is a simple request to have us give you a look over if you feel you haven't been looked at in a while. Or just put on your review flag.  If you feel that is too much for you to do, Meh.. don't play, what do you want us to say?

I'm sure I'm not the only player who was not aware of those 'solutions'. I always thought that putting review on is mostly for new players, and if more than a few players had review on it would make the imms go crazy over the amount of people having review on at the same time (and the watch work involved with it). For this, and other reasons, I have been very shy to use review at all..

This is a very interesting thread.  The GDB is full of a lot of contradictions and guesses as to how things work.  I remember reading early on that the review flag was rarely looked at, I also didn't like the idea that the simple act of me putting it on would would make -me- aware of it's presence and make me treat the game differently.  

I was given the impression that all players were looked at over time, and karma was handed out as the IMMs saw fit.  The comment that "no news is good news"  didn't even occur to me.  To me it was, if no one said anything to me, and I recieved no karma, it must be due to the fact that I had done nothing karma worthy.  The idea of "asking" to be looked at because I thought I deserved karma was rather foriegn to me, it seemed a bit crass and presumptous.
 
In fact the times that I was awarded karma was after playing some high profile roles, then after I died and noticed there was no karma awarded, my assumption was that once again I must have not done anything karma worthy.  When sending the email to the clan IMMs anouncing my characters death, I had asked how I had done, in my usual roundabout way.  Based on this question I had been awarded karma, but was always under the impression that I was lucky in getting it, because, well if it wasn't there already, I must have not done anything karma worthy.

Communication in vacumn is a tricky thing, what one side "assumes" may be entirely different that what the other does. In my eyes the karma system is fine.  It -may- be the communication that could use a little tweaking.  This thread has been more enlighting than I thought it would be, considering much of it was a personal gripefest.  I seriously doubt -I- will be running around asking for karma, but at least I won't fret so much wondering what I am doing wrong when nothing is auto-magickly awarded.

[Akaramu]

Once again, thanks to Qetesh to the help- and insightful post, I'm sure it will help many players. I wish I had seen something like that when I first started.  

As for being happy with mundane roles... that would have been great. But I kept having one awesome idea after the next involving (insert magicker type here), and then a half-giant, and then... and those ideas would haunt me, I would daydream about them, dream up little details about the characters. It was frustrating without karma. I wish I could have ordered my mind to come up with more awesome mundane PC ideas instead.

[Bestatte]

Everything Qetesh mentioned is documented on the website. It's nothing you wouldn't have known if you had read the FAQ, the newbie guide, and the top 40 help files list.

You can't fault the game, or the staff, for your neglect in reading just those few things that are readily available to anyone without much navigation of the docs at all.

Since you don't play anymore, there's really no need to defend the game, or the staff, to you. You chose to leave it, and there's nothing on this topic that really needs all that much improvement on.

I will say however - that the review system isn't as cut and dried as Qetesh says it is. I had my review flag on for around an entire year, and received only a couple of comments in my first 2 months.

I had also read on the GDB from some of the staff (It might've been Sanvean, but it was a long time ago and I can't remember), that staffers don't really pay much attention to that review flag anyway.

[Anonymous]

I will say however - that the review system isn't as cut and dried as Qetesh says it is. I had my review flag on for around an entire year, and received only a couple of comments in my first 2 months.

I think your expectations aren't set right.  Out of the hundreds of people who play on a regular basis, guessing by who lists, I don't think expecting more than few comments from the review flag is all that realistic.

This whole karma/review thing is a strange situation.  Staffers seem reluctant to comment to players about their play for what seems to be concerns about being perceived as roleplay judges.  Players want karma and some idea whether or not their play is adequate or daresay good and only staffers are in a position to provide that.

I think the root of a lot of negative feelings that get brought up, from time to time, are due to the idea that a player generally only hears from the staff when they've done something wrong.  Or at least that's when the staff is heard most loudly.

It's only human nature to be more motivated to fix unacceptable behavior, and the game is better off because of that effort on the staff's part but on the flip side it's only human nature to want to know whether you're doing things right.  That being said I can't imagine going around watching players and writing them emails when they done good is all that exciting a use of time.  I guess I'm sort of paralyzed by seeing what I perceive to be both sides of the issue.  I don't have an answer other than to say work closely with your clan immortals.  Playing your heart out of a role, dealing with IC situations realistically and keeping an open channel of communication between you and your clan imm will get you more feedback than roleplaying for the benefit of the invisible karma-giving eye in the sky ever will.

[Bestatte]

I should note, that the year's worth of review time I had flagged on encompassed only three PCs. I received comments about the first PC, and nothing from the other two.

It wasn't until I asked for my account notes a year after I gave up the review thing, that I learned that staffers had actually commented about my RP. I would've liked to have known these things -while- I was playing those characters, rather than a year later when there wasn't anything I could do to improve my RP of those PCs, or feel proud about the nice things some of them had to say.

[Eternal]

The very, very last thought with which staff members should be occupying themselves is of policing the players.  We watch you because we need to know what's going on in our clans to administer them, not to try to figure out if you deserve more karma or less.-- X

I really like this quote.  The staff exists, in my opinion, to keep the game going.  To maintain the quality of everything that has been accomplished so far, and to take the game in new, logical, directions that are both enjoyable (though not necessarily so from an ic perspective) and match the timbre of the amazing events that have unfolded in Zalanthan history so far.  I have never had any problems with the Imms in this regard.

Though I might be viewed by some as a "staff favorite", this has never appeared to me as the case (Though there are a few staffers who are -my- favorite).  Most of my options have not been granted through the Karma system, but rather by me special apping (and occassionally literally waiting months while bouncing emails) and then being allowed to keep the roles solely because of the way I performed in them.  As such, I have mixed feelings on Karma.  I was never noticed (beyond my omnipresent GDB presence) for Karma until I stood up, said "I can take this role, let me show you what I can do." and did it.  One month into the game I didn't really feel comfortable special apping for my first templar, and it took quite some time to work with Nessalin and get me ready to play one, but I apped anyway.  After that, I came up with numerous concepts for various types over the years (and yes, it did take -years-) and gained access to other options.  Not because I felt 'special', but because I believed I had a great role to play, and eventually was able to convince an Immortal of that.  Pretty sure I -still- don't have access to all the available options, don't really want them... I've never come up with a good sorceror concept, never wanted to..

I felt honored that the imms (staff, whatever) liked the way I played, and tackled even the most basic roles with the same fervor as those that took me months to obtain.  This told me that I was a part of the world, and when I was playing high-profile roles, I took it upon myself to be a mini-Imm, to help break in new players (and joined when the Helper program took off), to help with clan npc's, documentation, and most importantly, to provide for the players exactly what I would expect would be a Storyteller's job.  To bring them so far in that every time they logged on it was a different and epic experience.  Cleaning dungeon cells became great joy for all of my underlings' players (though not necessarily their pc's) simply because of the synergy we created.  (Ignore the loaded term, please)  I honestly feel that by doing any part of that, you will gain notice.  Unless you're throwing kamehameha(sp)'s into your fighting routine, it'll likely be good notice.

I remember when the review flag first went into place, and also remember that I rarely to never turned it on.  Only when I felt I was unsure of my character's place in the world (desert elf magicker comes to mind) and wanted honest feedback about whether or not I was behaving realistically, which the staff was often too happy to provide.  It did take a while, but I felt it was worth it, not to gain their notice, but to know that I was playing the most realistic Zalanthan character I could.  For me, it has never been about the classes, or races (god, I hate playing half-giants)... but Karma is about trust.  

Can this player be trusted to begin their -own- character, without any more staff intervention than yea or nay, and play it realistically within the guidelines of the world itself?  That, to me, is the essence of the Karma system.  And... it is hit and miss, to be certain.  I've never been much for outdoor characters, explorers... heck after what, close to 9 years around the game I couldn't tell you where to find the little secretive stuff that every semi-experienced ranger knows because I don't care.  I've often played a city-dweller and I thrive in leadership (or solo secretive) positions.  Those are what I enjoy, and they are often high-profile and occasionally require immtervention.  I've been slapped on the wrist nearly as many times as I've been complimented, and I appreciate that.  I play what I enjoy, not because I simply have (or don't have) the Karma, but because I feel this concept best serves to do what I like best... play a living, breathing character.

If you are a solo hunter player by heart, there's still plenty of ways you can show yourself trustworthy.  Play realistically.  Think of the world first, your own player ambitions second.  Don't wait for the Immortals to do everything.  If you feel that the desert needs new sorts of creatures, don't whine on the GDB about there being too few types; write up a few and send them in.  Then go post on the gdb that you're helping to head up a new set of lifeforms (or flesh out existing ones) and could use some help from other players.  This is how you both help the game, and gain the kind of positive attention you seem to be seeking.  

Some of the most amazing characters I've run across, even with my entirely city-bound characters, have been solo types who have stumbled into my path.  They might not have the bravado of a Tor Warlord, or the influence of a Merchant House concubine, but they still present a necessary role in the world, one which I am always more happy to encounter than Scarred Warrior #4 (whose family was killed by raiders and he wants to be a mercenary more than life itself).  The more you give, the more you get.  Give a little... don't look to be helped... help.  Karma is an apt term, in that it reflects that feeling.

Lord Templar Hard Nose chooses to end his comment on that note, hoping the less defensive posters will take at least some of it to heart, and knowing no one wants to hear his life story.

[SewerRat_inTheOpen]

Karma is an immortal's way of patting you on the back and saying, "Well done."

[Halaster]

The purpose of creating and filling staff positions isn't to provide feedback to players.  The very, very last thought with which staff members should be occupying themselves is of policing the players.

Actually, I tend to disagree with Xygax here, a little bit on his last statement.  I agree that the purpose of creating staff positions isn't for this, but I do feel that it's a part of some staff members' job to police players and to be roleplay judges.

That's right, I said it.  I think the staff should police players and should be roleplay judges, on some level.  Obviously it shouldn't take up a lot of our time, but I've always felt that's one of the job functions of a staff member.

If I see a player being a twink and cheating, I'm gonna nail him.  If I find out someone abused some code bug with the intent of getting away with something then tried to hide it, I'm gonna smack 'em down.  That, in my mind, is policing.  What I don't do is go around looking for it though, but if I find it while I'm doing other stuff, I'll deal with it.  That's what I consider policing the players.  It's possible you guys mean something else with that term.

As for the roleplay judges?  You betcha!  We have to judge someone's roleplay in order to help determine if they are trustworthy and capable of handling certain karma roles.   Again, I may be thinking of a different definition of what this means, but I sure as hell consider myself a roleplay judge.  And I think of the rest of the staff that way too.  I also think players can be excellent roleplay judges, too.  They shouldn't be breaking character very much criticizing each other, but emailing the staff about Bob's crappy rp, or Joe's wonderful rp is just fine.  But the staff are the ones who are primarily responsible for enforcing that the game remains a roleplaying game, so we have to be roleplay judges by the very nature of our job.

Obviously, there are different opinions even among the staff, and that's fine.

[Nyard]

Halasturd hath passed judgment on me, and His holiest of words rang with a piercing harshness through the cold air.  Yes, cold air in Zalanthas.:
You are n00b.  You phail at life.  

Then, we danced together.

Okay, now that I got that out of my system.  Halaster is right.  I see no problem with punishing people for twinking badly, especially since he doesn't go out looking specifically for it.  The staff has many roles to fill and jobs to do, and if they find somebody in their spare time that's twinking, they shouldn't just turn a blind eye.  Roleplay judging is not bad, either, I think, or we wouldn't have the "review" command.