Guard vs. ranged weapons

[Anael]

I don't believe it's possible to guard another character against them, and I wish it was.

The die-hard bodyguard leaps in front of the startled noble, taking a knife to the chest!

I think it'd be nice if there was some Guard skill check (definitely should be hard to pass!) when someone shoots/throws something at a guarded person.
The first idea that comes to mind would be that in case the guardperson passes their guard skill check, the code acts as if the missile was aimed at them and they then have a chance to deflect/parry it as usual.
There are few problems I can think of, but I can only guess how the ranged weapons code works...
Comments, ideas?

[wizturbo]

Sounds good to me.  Not so much to spot the arrow in midflight, but to notice the person shooting it and step between them and their target, or push their buddy out of the way or something.

[Ghost]

Cool idea.  Making people look for really good guards.

[RunningMountain]

No one ever gets attacked in the cities anyway.

[Moofassa]

I can think of a few incidences. And not always by PC's or NPC's, use some imagination.

[Anael]

Outta curiosity, what is the point of RM's post? People use both the Guard skill and ranged weapons out of cities, too.

Anyway, it's a bit annoying that all you have to do to avoid a group of bodyguards is 'throw dagger fancypants, draw sword' (edit - or so it seemed to me, at least. I don't say it's true, I don't find it too IC to test code quirks like that heh). Not that there are people twinkish enough to do that, luckily.

[Larrath]

If not already possible, I would like to see this for the higher-end guards.

It could be possible for the guard to just move in and shield-block/parry, or knock the noble away (causing them a bit of damage), or jump in themselves.
Arrows would be made slightly harder to deflect than throwing knives due to their speed.

Can be a cool thing, really, though very difficult to do.

[RunningMountain]

My point is why waste time trying to code this when it will rarely be used anyway.

-RM

[Rhyden]

My point is why waste time trying to code this when it will rarely be used anyway.

-RM

Why make rooms where nobody will ever go?
Why make craftable items that nobody will ever craft?
Why have beasts that nobody can ever kill?

It's the realism of the world. If this code will improve the reaslism of Zalanthas, whether the situation is used frequently or rarely, I say its fine by me. If the immortals decide that this is on the bottom of the to-do list, fine. If its on the top, even better.

But not coding something -just- because it will rarely be used is no excuse to deny the idea.

[lazycritic]

The few times it is used it might save someone's life. Hopefully NPCs are not given something like max guard by default, though, heh.

[RunningMountain]

My point is why waste time trying to code this when it will rarely be used anyway.

-RM

Why make rooms where nobody will ever go?
Why make craftable items that nobody will ever craft?
Why have beasts that nobody can ever kill?

It's the realism of the world. If this code will improve the reaslism of Zalanthas, whether the situation is used frequently or rarely, I say its fine by me. If the immortals decide that this is on the bottom of the to-do list, fine. If its on the top, even better.

But not coding something -just- because it will rarely be used is no excuse to deny the idea.

I never said it would never be used.  I said it will rarely be used.. There's no fucking point in making a room, item, or npc that no one will see, even if they rarely see it, that's at least something.  My point is, there's plenty of other realism I'd rather see go into the coder's hands besides some people whining that they can't guard their precious nobles from an archer or well-skilled knife-thrower.  A small list of the things I'd rather see worked on.

Wagon code.
A burn code via fire.
The melee combat code expanded on.
Mass-combat expanded on.
Silt-skimmers.

Do I have to list more?
-RM

[Armaddict]

I'd agree with this even despite RunningMountain's concerns on how often it will actually come into use.  The reason being, it's a logical idea, and if it -does- work, it can have a profound impact in character.

That, and I don't think ranged weapons should be a fail safe way to hit your target.  Not everyone is so skilled as to be a high-end sniper, and I bet some people will disagree with that statement, but that's how I feel about it.

So yes, I'd like to see this in, sometime or another, as well.

My point is why waste time trying to code this when it will rarely be used anyway.

-RM

Lay off, it's not your place to decide what is or isn't a waste of time to code.
And I doubt you've got access to the kind of information that would
tell you how much something like this would get used.

[Swordsman]

I like the idea of the guard skill working against projectile attacks, though to be honest, I don't remember personally witnessing a situation like this ICly. (I'm aware that they've happened, though.) Additional ideas: (1) it should be a lot harder than blocking/parrying attacks to yourself, (2) guards using shields should have a better chance of success than guards not using shields, and (3) multiple guards have more effect (similar to how multiple attackers have more effect than fighting one-on-one). Just a few thoughts.

Swordsman

[Anael]

Heh, I assume something's wrong with me, but I've seen situations when this would be used far too often   . You ride out with a group, two strong warriors guarding a newb. A random bugger enters the room and attacks the inexperienced lad, the guarding warriors protect their friend and cut the poor thing into pieces. A random bugger with a ranged weapon (ie gith archer) attacks the newbie... See where I am coming?
A minor hint what this might add to the game, and is connected with mass-combat as well: formations for groups using ranger weapons. Shield users covering archers who shoot over their heads... I've seen Guard skill roleplayed as group formations in a very neat way quite a few times, but the fact it can be used only for close attacks is a bit disappointing to me.

besides some people whining that they can't guard their precious nobles from an archer or well-skilled knife-thrower

I'll leave aside the 'whining' part, even though I find it somewhat insultive, and I'll leave aside the fact noone ever mentioned nobles and their guards aside from my little example, too.
Even a completely unskilled thrower, can use this. Someone's asleep, badly wounded and someone else is guarding them? Why, I can just leave the room and kill the wounded guy with a thrown weapon! Even without the throw skill, my chances are pretty high. Let alone, once again, the little thing I dare call a bug (unless it's been fixed, I haven't experienced such situation lately), that throwing from the same room moves you miraculously past the guards and initiates combat with your target.

[Elgiva]

I really like this idea. Great idea. I am not worried it will not be used. I saw quite a lot of situations where it would be used, including shooting inside the city  :twisted: .
I also agree that the guard with a shield should have bigger chances than without it.

[Anael]

I also agree that the guard with a shield should have bigger chances than without it.

That is, I believe, one of the good features of the way I proposed (simply making the code treat it as if the missile was aimed at the bodyguard instead of the original target in case they pass the Guard skill check). Skilled shield users are arrow-resisiting tanks anyway  :wink: . I don't think it'd be needed to code any special quirks like this. The simplier the better, IMHO.

Edit: Anael is the typo king. Any queens about?

[Agent_137]

this would be both logical and useful.

I hope to see it someday.

[Xygax]

If, the first time you saw something happen, you went "wow, I didn't know that was coded!", then yes it's probably IC info.  I've just deleted a post which in my opinion crossed that line.