Storm Code

[Armaddict]

That's us speaking out of character.  The class is the one with the benefits.

IC, you'd be asking for a wilderness guide, a scout...you know...the thing you're -looking- for.

[Twilight]

Armaddict, you seem to have missed my point.  Yes, you are asking about an IC profession.  Those professions aren't necessarily rangers by any means.  But a character with guild of ranger is all that works.  A warrior who says he is a scout is just as valid as a ranger or mindbender telling you the same thing.

[Forest Junkie]

A warrior who says he is a scout is just as valid as a ranger or mindbender telling you the same thing.

The rangy, windswept man says, in tribal-accented sirihish, "Aye, been's out in da wastes a fews, perty much know mah way 'round there."

The gaunt, stringy-haired male says, in sirihish, "Oh yeah? Guessin' you know how to avoid them nasty storms then too yeah? Maybe even help lead my caravan out of one if it happens to sneak up on us?"

The rangy, windswept man furrows a brow, giving a slight shake of his head after a moment's pause.

The rangy, windswept man says, in tribal-accented sirihish, "Nah, them storms blow too nasty for me to get through, usually."

The gaunt, stringy-haired male says, in sirihish, "Too bad. Thank's for yer time then. We'll contact you soon, if we can't find anyone more suited."

Play out the situations man. Ask specific questions that the person in question could only answer by revealing their class. Ask them if they have experience traversing storms alone, successfully.

It can't be that difficult Twilight. C'mon now.

[drunkendwarf]

Friend, npc's are not bound by the same laws as pcs.

That's kinda my point...why aren't they affected by storms? I know there's not alot of other things that can be done about some of the npc stuff...no movement lag, etc. But it would seem like this should be changed...if we're gonna get our asses handed to us by a sandstorm...so should the tembo. Unless of course, it's HIRED A RANGER

If you don't want to be fillin' that tembo's belly, don't go outside.
If you are not a ranger, don't go outside alone.

Gee, sounds like a lot of fun if I want to play something outdoorsy, and not be a ranger.

It bubbles down to one thing: Make the damn storms more playable. I'm not saying they have to be lessened (thought I'm sure I've suggested it), I'm not saying get rid of the code, all I'm saying is think about the players.

Not everyone can afford to HIRE A RANGER.
The emaciated, gubby man says "I could give yeh this pile of dung to take me out so's I can grab fer some food in the scrubs...also gots me some pocket lint, if'n yer interested in that instead. If yeh wait awhile..might be TWO piles of dung."

Not everyone wants to HIRE A RANGER.
The wispy-haired, skinny man says in sirihish "Um...could I hire you to take me out into the desert, so I can raid a few people?"

The barrel-chested, ebony man says in sirihish "Hey...I'm lookin' fer a guide so's I can go out an' practice up my magickin'...jes' make sure yeh look the other way when we get out there, eh?"

Not everyone can HIRE A RANGER.

The shifty-eyed, gaunt elf says, in rinthi-accented sirihish "Yeh take me out inta the wilds fer some coin?"

The stiff-jawed, suave ranger says, in sirihish "Feck off, skinny."


I wasn't aware rangers needed to become 'worthwhile' anyways...they seemed just fine to me as they were...and in fact, they were my favorite class before this storm code was reinstated.

Hey...maybe we should make it so only merchant characters can buy things from NPC shopkeepers! That way whever someone needs to buy or sell something, they have to:
HIRE A MERCHANT

Seems to me they need more help than rangers ever did.

Why can't caravan guides navigate storms as well?

Caravan guides are skilled in desert travel.

This is the biggest one, in my opinion, to have some sort of ability to deal with sandstorms. They after all are, caravan guides.
Or maybe even nomads?  

Nomads are adept at shrewd bartering in the desert markets.

Logic dictates they get to these desert markets somehow.

If the storm code isn't going to be changed back..for the love of God, allow people to deal with a storm if they've been blindsided. Let them quit out...even if they have to pick a nomad or caravan guide as a subguild to do it. Let people do SOMETHING other than cut link and kiss their character goodbye, if they get hit by a storm 2 hours before having to go to work. Let tents allow people to quit out. Have hoods, sunslits etc. actually do something, even if it means a 1 minute movement lag between rooms to avoid getting lost...they'd still never be able to get away from that uber tembo who doesn't seem affected by the storm whatsoever. Forcing people to pick a ranger class in order to do anything out of the gates is one of the lamest things I've heard of.
Never leaving the gates without a ranger sounds like as much fun to me as pulling out my ass hairs with tweezers.

[Tamarin]

I don't think there are enough storms.  And when there are, I don't think they are harsh enough.  On a world like Zalanthas, I'm amazed that people aren't being swallowed whole by huge, 12-foot moving sand dunes.

Vote YES for Killer Storms.

[Cuusardo]

It all boils down to the fact that some people just aren't that savvy when it comes to the wilderness.  If you aren't one of those people, and you can't find, afford, or get one to help you, then chances are you're SOL, no matter who you are or why you need one of them.

[drunkendwarf]

I don't think there are enough storms. And when there are, I don't think they are harsh enough. On a world like Zalanthas, I'm amazed that people aren't being swallowed whole by huge, 12-foot moving sand dunes.

It all boils down to the fact that some people just aren't that savvy when it comes to the wilderness. If you aren't one of those people, and you can't find, afford, or get one to help you, then chances are you're SOL, no matter who you are or why you need one of them.

Let me state this again:
I agree.
I'm all for having storms icky, nasty, blinding, etc etc etc. My main complaint is this: When you happen to get stuck in one and don't have 15RL hours to wait for it to pass over, it sucks ass. I'm trying to offer up advice on how to make it more playable for people who don't have 15 RL hours to commit to the mud when they feel like leaving the gates. This is my #1 complaint. If nothing else at all...let people quit out during a storm...let SOMETHING happen so you don't have to make a new character because you've been blindsided with 2 hours until you have to log off. I've just been trying to make a few suggestions to make storms more playable, not necessarily less drastic or icky.

Granted, some of my suggestions have been to lessen the severity of storms in certain ways...but they're exactly that. Suggestions. I'm just trying to make these storms more playable for people. How many newbies do you think will stick with it when they spend a few hours making a character, wait a day for it to be approved, and die shortly after the 4 hour mark 5 rooms outside the gates because they got nailed by a storm while on foot, foraging for branches and had to cut link after waiting several RL hours for the storm to pass. I'm pretty sure I'd move on to a different mud if I was in their shoes.
For the record, I voted for the last option in the poll. I don't mind the storm code, I just think it needs to be tweaked to allow some playability for everyone. It seems several people agree.

[Cuusardo]

Rangers can quit out in the wilderness, even during a sandstorm.

[Pantoufle]

I appreciate the storm code about as much as I appreciate the shop-closing code (which isn't much).  It makes no sense, to me, for a shopkeeper to just stand there all night, doing seemingly nothing, and then tell you to come back at dawn.  Hey buddy, while you're just standing there doing nothing, instead of shooing me away wouldn't you rather actually have some business and make money?  It would make more sense, to me, if these shops would actually close, barring entry, or if the NPC shopkeeper vanished for the night.  I also don't think, in this case, realism should outweight playability.  Sure it's realistic for a shop to close, but it's an unreasonable setup in a world where we all have a very finite time to play the game.

I compare this notion of realism vs. playability to the storm code.  First of all, if I can actually see the room I am in, then I should have free range of movement (guild_ranger or not).  I could understand if my sight was blinded completey (as in, "You can't see a thing; sand swirls around you!")  In this case it would make sense to stumble through the storm blindly.  Why?  Because you're actually blinded and can't see the room you're in!  Sadly, the current sandstorm code is basically asking the playerbase to remain safely cooped within their taverns and clan compounds, so we can all play boring, pampered personas, whiling our time away without any hope of real excitement.  While interesting, the idea of using "rangers" as a guide in the storms only looks good on paper.  It's horribly impractical and only serves to confine the playerbase into a state of stagnation.

I only see the sandstorm code as worthwhile if some serious changes were implemented.  It might alleviate the tremendous OOC handicap this code offers if the hunter subguild was also able to successfully navigate through a storm, and not just guild_ranger.  I'm sure there are people in the real world who have full understanding of one wilderness skill, but not all.  Some people could be the best trackers in the world, but when it comes to making a simple camp fire, they fail miserably.  To me, it makes sense to only allow guild_sorcerer the ability to gather mana, or for guild_warrior to be the only guild with the ability to become the best swordsman, rivaling all other guilds in straight up combat.  But I don't see the ability to navigate through storms as such a mighty, rare ability that only guild_ranger should have access to this one.  And, again, no matter what arguement you suspend before me, the bottom line is, the sandstorm code is far more of an OOC nuisance than an IC reality.

[drunkendwarf]

Rangers can quit out in the wilderness, even during a sandstorm.

Yes, thank you for that bit of insight. If you'd care to reread my posts I believe I've already brought this point up. Multiple times. I think you've missed the entire point of my postings. Please reread them.

[drunkendwarf]

I'd also like to point out the current results of the poll. I'm obviously not alone. Could we perhaps get a bit of immortal feedback on this one? Haven't heard from a single one yet.

I like the idea of storms being deadly. I hate the idea of loosing a character for OOC reasons (having to cut link in a storm and go to work, because I didn't have 15RL hours to wait it out). There my complaint, summed up in two sentences.

[Delirium]

I hate the idea of loosing a character for OOC reasons (having to cut link in a storm and go to work, because I didn't have 15RL hours to wait it out). There my complaint, summed up in two sentences.

So uh, don't go out if you think you might have to log out abruptly?

Don't go out into the DESERT alone with a CITY-based character?

Seems simple to me.

And from everything I've read before, and though I know it can bite to lose a beloved character to OOC circumstances, Armageddon's general stance on that has been 'sorry 'bout your luck'.

I do agree that the storm code could use some variability, Twilight's idea is a good one, but it is NOT unplayable as it is now if you take a moment to step back and consider the realism of the situation. The desert is a nasty place that can kill you without ever drawing blood, and I think the fixed storm code was a badly needed step in the right direction.

[Ghost]

First of all, if I can actually see the room I am in, then I should have free range of movement (guild_ranger or not).  I could understand if my sight was blinded completey (as in, "You can't see a thing; sand swirls around you!")  In this case it would make sense to stumble through the storm blindly.  

Well.. The storm code already doing that.  That is, only when there is "blinding biting sand" around you, you have the chance to lose your way.  So it just kicks you only when
"You can't see a thing; sand swirls around you!"
AND when you get
"The blinding, biting sand whips around you".
message while you are moving.  Both of these actually, blind you as it is clearly writen in the message.

Just one notch below that level:
"Terrible biting sand whips around you"
If you are getting this message, or if it is something of a less powerful storm, you don't get lost.  So the storm code makes sense.. No?

And that high level of the storms are not really much around.  Either I am too lucky, or it is that they don't last too long around.  The fact that people don't go out in the desert when there is even the slightest of the breeze is the fear of the storm code.  And I think, it is how it should be.  People should fear the desert, and the storm code is providing it.  You should lose your way when there is a "blinding" storm and it provides it.

IF you are going outside, without a ranger, and yourself as a city type character, then you are taking a -risk-.  The storm can come to you, or you may go to that one.  You are taking that risk.  If you are quitting in a safe room in the desert, and when you log in, the storm is all around whipping you, you are suffering because you took a risk before.  I would like the storm code stay this way still.  If you need to go to the desert, you hire a ranger.. Yes, it might not be that you prefer not to hire one.. So you check the weather while you go.  But still you run the risk of getting caught in a storm, that picks up after you go out.  But it is a damn RISK you took.  There is a reason why 80% of all the known world is staying in the city states, 10-13% is staying in the outposts/villages closed with walls so the storm does not kick in too harsh.

[drunkendwarf]

So uh, don't go out if you think you might have to log out abruptly?

Or if you have to log out in 2RL days...as these storms often last that long.

[naatok]

I personally get a naughty tingle in my groin when thinking about sandstorms so violent they rip exposed flesh from bone.

But then again, I'm evil.

I think the secret to getting along with storm code is...you gotta be evil.

Play an evil character.  Evil characters don't give a damn about sandstorms.
They laugh when sandstorms roll across the wastes toward them.  They cackle at the thought of being lost in the depths of a blinding, biting, sand friggin' hurricane!  You see...evil people ignore harsh reality because they're constantly trying to change it...and make it harsher for others so they can cackle with insane, evil glee as they watch those around them writhe in sick, desperate futile abandon when the evil poop hits the evil fan.

But on a more serious note, I do think the storm code should have some limits on how long a storm will last.  Not because it would be realistic for a world like Zalanthas (after all, Mars is a desert planet.  A cold one, but still a desert world.  Sandstorms on Mars can last for months and cover the entire planet).  I think storms on Zalanthas should have limited duration because if not, the wilderness will be empty and there won't be anyone for my evil characters to interact with.  To torment and to cackle at and say, "You foolish goodie-goodies!  See how the storms mock you as I mock them...AND you!"

:twisted:

I know, I know.  But this thread needed some levity.

One thing I would like to see is perhaps a seasonal nature to sandstorms on Zalanthas.  Maybe times in the year (Low Sun or Sun Ascending or Descending) when sandstorms are more prevalent.  And other times where they are much less prevalent.

Thoughts?

[Delirium]

One thing I would like to see is perhaps a seasonal nature to sandstorms on Zalanthas.  Maybe times in the year (Low Sun or Sun Ascending or Descending) when sandstorms are more prevalent.  And other times where they are much less prevalent.

Maybe it's my imagination, but it already seems to be this way.

[Rhyden]

I think the secret to getting along with storm code is...you gotta be evil.

Play an evil character.  Evil characters don't give a damn about sandstorms.
They laugh when sandstorms roll across the wastes toward them.  They cackle at the thought of being lost in the depths of a blinding, biting, sand friggin' hurricane!  You see...evil people ignore harsh reality because they're constantly trying to change it...and make it harsher for others so they can cackle with insane, evil glee as they watch those around them writhe in sick, desperate futile abandon when the evil poop hits the evil fan.

But all my characters are sweet and kind people who love everything and strive for global peace...

...

NOT!!! :twisted:

I agree with Naatok and say up with the evil characters cackling their heads off in the middle of sandstorms.

One thing I would like to see is perhaps a seasonal nature to sandstorms on Zalanthas.  Maybe times in the year (Low Sun or Sun Ascending or Descending) when sandstorms are more prevalent.  And other times where they are much less prevalent.

Thoughts?

I'd be cool with that. Don't know if it would be realistic given Zalanthas' revolvation around its sun but it could work.

[Bestatte]

Naatok is vile, viscious, nasty, evil, and psychologically disturbing. And that's why I love him so much.

That said, there already is a pattern in place for the storm code. I think that's part of the problem. In some areas, by Tuesday afternoon, the storm becomes "blinding" and just kinda stays there til reboot on Saturday (or until a game crash). In other areas, it'll be clear from reboot til thursday, then it'll slowly get worse until Saturday morning when it's unbearable. In some areas, it'll be visual for almost the entire RL week, with very few exceptions.

There is definitely a pattern. I think many people would just like to see this pattern broken up a little more.

[Twilight]

Forest Junkie wrote:

Ask specific questions that the person in question could only answer by revealing their class.

Um...this is -precisely- what I was talking about, in the you "this was done all the time in the past but you shouldn't really be doing this" sense.

[lazycritic]

Heh...reminds me of that post about "unbalance". Every guild cannot be whatever it wants to be, and this is an obvious example.

Don't go out into the DESERT alone with a CITY-based character?

Seems simple to me.

Caravan Guide? Nomad? Hunter? Desert Elf?

CITY-based characters that practically live in the DESERT?  :shock:

[Maybe42or54]

Balance to me is defined as "If you can switch 2 things and not skrew up more than those 2 then it is balanced."

All except Ranger seems to be city based. And even rangers can be city-based. (magick and skill aside)

A ranger can be anything with the subguilds, but nothing can be a ranger with the subguilds. Am I correct?

A ranger can be a merchant, but a merchant can't be a ranger.
A ranger can be a warrior, but a warrior can't navigate int he wind.
A ranger can be an assasin in the sands, but an assasin can't.
A ranger can be a pick-pocket with the subguild. A thief can't be a ranger though.
A ranger can be a burglar of wagons, but a burglar can't.

Am I wrong in my thinking?
Maybe a new guild that is desert based is in order?

[wizturbo]

Caravan Guide? Nomad? Hunter? Desert Elf?

CITY-based characters that practically live in the DESERT?  :shock:

Uh...all three of those concepts can be played using the Ranger guild.  A Ranger who acts as a Caravan Guide.  A ranger who is a nomad.  A ranger desert elf....

I don't see why a SUBGUILD, virtually a hobby, should give someone such exceptional talent with dealing with sandstorms.

[Ghost]

I think there is an exaggeration on the harshness of the storm code here.

Everyone can deal with the storms.. EVERYONE that is.

Just that, if the storm is blinging, it is going over your head.

And rangers can deal with blinding storms.

That is all about it.  Just that you can't walk straight in blinding storms does not mean you can't live in the desert.  And the only bonus of ranger is that, he can go through the blinding ones.  So the desert is not a "ranger alone" world.  But you are not as CONFIDENT as the ranger (for the fear of a blinding storm might come over you).  And that is how it is supposed to be.

[EvilRoeSlade]

My main complaint is this: When you happen to get stuck in one and don't have 15RL hours to wait for it to pass over, it sucks ass.

I agree completely.  I don't have that kind of time either.

In my opinion, it would be MUCH better if storms instantly killed you unless you've been preparing to withstand them for the last two hours because your ranger buddy told you that one was coming.

[Delirium]

A ranger can be a merchant, but a merchant can't be a ranger.

Anybody can be a merchant, but all will have large disadvantages compared to the class merchant in that field.

A ranger can be a warrior, but a warrior can't navigate int he wind.

I really, really want to laugh every time I hear someone claim that a ranger can be a warrior. It's absolute bullshit. Just because a ranger may branch certain skills doesn't mean that their strengths will EVER be the same as a "class warrior", or even approach it.  Now, can a ranger roleplay the life of a (sub-par) warrior? Hell yeah, so can a burglar or a pickpocket.

A ranger can be an assasin in the sands, but an assasin can't.

No arguments there. Desert assassin vs city assassin. Rangers get their feet yanked out from under them in the city.

A ranger can be a pick-pocket with the subguild. A thief can't be a ranger though.

An extremely SHITTY pickpocket, sure.

A ranger can be a burglar of wagons, but a burglar can't.

... Huh?

Am I wrong in my thinking?

I would say yes and no. Class and code-wise you are very wrong. Roleplay wise, it is definitely possible for any class to try and be whatever they want. They just won't necessarily be any good at it.