Storm Code

[drunkendwarf]

In my opinion, it would be MUCH better if storms instantly killed you unless you've been preparing to withstand them for the last two hours because your ranger buddy told you that one was coming.

Yes, because only rangers can ever read the weather. No one else who's been living on Zalanthas has ever had to deal with a storm, or knows when one is coming. Let's just start slaying PC's for no apparent reason...that'd be fun too, wouldn't it? (Don't get any ideas, Nessalin.)

Okay, I'll make it even more simple. Magickers get hosed by the new storm code. Anything else you'd like to play in the wilds...make it a ranger, and pick a subguild to suit (still doesn't sound like much fun to me...but whatever.) Magickers simply don't have this option. Why is it that magickers are now, code wise, strictly city based? Why can't there be magickers who are able to deal with a storm, because they've spent their entire lives in the wilds? Now, code wise...they'd have to be rangers...which means they can't be magickers. I've much more of a complaint than this...but we'll stick with this one for now. Why can't there just be a subguild that either allows people to quit out, or allows a SOLO character to navigate through a storm. I don't see how this means I'm going to 'rule the desert' as people keep stating...just means I can get by on my own.  I still can't sneak, hide, hunt, poison, oh....and FORAGE FOR FOOD AND WATER in the wilds. I can just move through a storm.

I'm still obviously not alone in thinking the storm code needs tweaking...I'd once again like to refer people to the poll results.

[drunkendwarf]

Uh...all three of those concepts can be played using the Ranger guild. A Ranger who acts as a Caravan Guide. A ranger who is a nomad. A ranger desert elf....

And why couldn't a 'ranger' be played by any other class in the game? What's your point here?
I think the storm code is forcing people to think WAY too OOC, when it comes to guilds.  Whatever happened to encouraging someone to choose a merchant, and play an explorer? To choose a pickpocket, and play a caravan guide? To choose a warrior, and play a hunter? Nah...now, you gotta be a ranger to effectively play any of these. How is this reflecting realism?
'Well, in order to play my explorer, I've just gotta put up with this set of skills....guess I just have to learn to like these skills.'

Wee, sounds like fun.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

You know, in real life, people stick to what they know how to do. So very rarely indeed do they venture off into other arenas. So very rarely indeed are there jacks-of-all-trades.

In this light, the regimentary classification of the class/subclass reinforces roleplay.

[Xygax]

Some quick points:

a)  Non-rangers don't get lost on EVERY move through a sandstorm.  They have a low percentage (further lowered by stats, in some cases) of getting lost, while rangers have 0.

b)  Critters (tembo, raptors, etc.) do lose their way in storms, just as PCs do.  I've seen hapless players saved by this (without knowing they were saved by it) many times.  Yeah, they'll hunt you mercilessly, and yeah they have a good chance of finding you, but they DO get blown off-course.

c)  Gear:  Yes, I think gear like sunslits etc., should help somewhat with storms.  They don't currently because the technology and the data simply aren't in place yet.  They will never be 100% effective.

d)  I tend to agree that the weather code, in general, sometimes doesn't make a lot of sense.  It is zone-based, and so the boundaries aren't as soft or nebulous as they ought to be, storms don't slowly roll across the world or occupy a region of space in a way that necessarily makes sense...  the problem is that doing a more dynamic storm system like that isn't trivial.

e)  Roads should help, being in a city should help.  Yes, I just haven't gotten around to it, yet.  However, the roads change will NOT make it 100% safe to wander the desert, as long as you stay on the road...  it will make some difference in how often people get lost, but it may not be a difference you're tangibly aware of.  A lot of people didn't notice at all when the overall chance of getting lost was tuned down, and those same people probably won't notice when the roads get easier to follow.

f) Some magickers already have techniques for evading this effect.  'Nuff said.

-- X

[Agent_137 (2L2L)]

Hrm. An old debate.

I haven't seen any storms come up out of nowhere. I've walked into them, but I haven't seen them just suddenly arrive in my room where there wasn't one before. Maybe I've been lucky. Make use of "weather <direction>" command. Of course, if blinding storms do instantly descend on an entire zone with absolutely no warning, then this is a REAL issue that needs to be fixed. I haven't seen it though, so i can't speak on it.

I -have- seen storms last too damn long. I don't care if it's Red Storm or not. Blinding storms that last 3-4 real life days are just too damn long. It saps playability. I like the idea that the stronger the storm, the less time it should exist. Kinda makes sense. Unfortunately, we see storms that last RL days at max level. That's a problem.

So I think the real issue here is the storm code itself. This new "need a ranger to walk right" thing is just highlighting the problem with the storm code.

. . . Oh, wow. Xygax posted as I was typing my response.

And it seems his point D addresses just about everything I had to say. I'll leave you with this:

Yes, I know it isn't trivial. But please don't avoid it just because it's a bitch.

For me, the biggest problem with this game is the poor coding. Combat. Crime. Weather. I see all these great ideas that have trouble manifesting themselves due to code limitations. But don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the current code isn't impressive. Indeed, it's wonderous and forever beyond any capabilities I'll ever have for coding. But that doesn't mean that it should be left alone. Strive for improvement always. I'd rather see superior storm code than see a dozen more echoes in random places. I can imagine zalanthas in my head just fine. Where I need help is the coded aspect.

[Xygax]

For me, the biggest problem with this game is the poor coding. Combat. Crime. Weather.

Sentiments like this warm the cockles of my heart.

I see all these great ideas that have trouble manifesting themselves due to code limitations. But don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the current code isn't impressive. Indeed, it's wonderous and forever beyond any capabilities I'll ever have for coding. But that doesn't mean that it should be left alone. Strive for improvement always. I'd rather see superior storm code than see a dozen more echoes in random places. I can imagine zalanthas in my head just fine. Where I need help is the coded aspect.

Perhaps that's what you'd rather, but one thing is so vastly easier than the other that (using your example) adding room echoes doesn't even require an engine-coder at all, whereas rearchitecting the poorly-coded (to paraphrase your remarks) weather-system does.  These ultra-easy tasks get done partly because they're rewarding for the doer (a new storyteller can add room echoes or other features easily, and be quickly paid back with results), as well as the recipients.  By contrast, larger system changes almost always yield frustration on the part of at least some portion of the player base, in addition to being prone to introduce new, unanticipated and unpredictable bugs.

That doesn't mean that we avoid tackling large changes, and Savak mentioned in another thread a few of the larger systems that HAVE gone in of late (some of which might not have been possible without the stability and performance improvements I've been boorishly indulging myself with).

Here's the thing...  as an engine coder, I tend on occasion to be selfish:  I take on pet projects which I percieve have the most benefit for the MUD without tremendous regard for your (and I mean you, Agent_137, not the generic, all-encompassing you, here) priorities.  This usually leads me to greedily focus on things like reducing our CPU load from 100% of one of ginka's 4 CPUs to an average of about 7-10%, so that perceived system lag has been reduced to near-zero (outside of whatever network hardware issues lay between ginka and the average user's home machine).  Or other inconsiderate tasks like improving the MUD's stability to the degree that, of late, the complaints have been that it doesn't crash _enough_.

Other coders have other interests and will tackle systems that are more visible to the player-base.  I delved into the weather/losing-your-way code for only a moment because I discovered an old logic error as I was auditing the codebase.  The original code was written literally years ago (perhaps as many as 8, I recall having lost my way in the desert as a newbie), and was accidentally disabled by a misplaced boolean operand (or a wild night of sprinkling parantheses through the movement code, I could never tell which).  Then I did some work to further tweak the system to take a bit of the original edge off of it, as well as squash a few other bugs revealed by re-enabling it.  I've committed to some other work with it such as the tasks I mention above, but with RL eating into my free time of late, I haven't had a chance to tackle them yet.

Sorry about the poor code,
 Xygax

[wizturbo]

No complaints here Xygax, keep on rocking.

Some players don't see the big picture, and I hope you guys who do so much hard work don't feel discouraged by their ignorant comments.

*lifts a bottle of beer to the imms*  

You all rock.

[amoeba]

No complaints here Xygax, keep on rocking.

Just remember there are those of us who appreciate the work and know how much effort goes into it that is never seen by the users, although they would miss it if it was gone.

--Cheers.

[Maybe42or54]

Xygax, I hate you.

I mean, If I don't respond to someone in five minutes, I can't blame it on lag anymore.
Anyways, I don't really hate you, but I have been loving the new additions.

[joyofdiscord]

Word.  Of all the muds I have played, which are many, Arm has far and away the most responsive, involved, hard-working staff I've ever seen.  Unfortunately, I also notice that, in comparison to other MUDs, Arm has an immense quantity of non-constructive criticism, complaining, demanding, and backseat IMMing on the part of players.  I can't help but wonder, with some regret, if the two aren't related.  I guess you give us an inch and we want a mile.  Or, more accurately, you give us a mile and we want a league.   But yes, there -are- players who properly appreciate the kind of work going into a game like this.  We're not as noisy, I guess, since we tend to avoid the "Complain about latest feature" threads.

[Larrath]

I really don't think Agent meant to say that Arm has badly written code or that the coders are anything other than kickass and awesome.

It is a fact, as far as I'm aware, that the weather code is regarded as a code behemoth that is difficult, frustrating and possibly even risky to approach.
I don't think that anyone is to blame for this, and I think that Agent is with me on this.


The entire Armageddon playerbase rocks, everyone from the lowliest twink (who'd be regarded as a master roleplayer in any other RP MUD, mind you) to the scariest soul-eating immortal.
Gooooo coders!


Now what was this thread about again?