blinding sands

[Label]

How long do these storms usually last in the desert? I recall one time when a character of mine entered into a part of the desert where a storm was going on and became lost. After wandering around blindly for around an hour I finally gave into my personal needs and went to bed, leaving my character linkdead (not very smart, but completely necessary) . The next day when I returned my character was still alive but the storm was sill raging, and I was at that point suffering from dehydration.  :oops:

[Cuusardo]

The weather is unpredictable.  That is why it's not wise to venture out into the wastes if you aren't a ranger, or if you don't have a ranger with you.

[Label]

Understandable, thanks for the advice

[Agent_137]

Storms are also worse in some parts of the world than others.

I reccomend if you are stuck in the city because of a RL weeklong storm, you  vent your frustration ICly. I'm sure you're char is even more pissed than you. For him, it's been almost half a fucking month!!!

There's a trick to knowing which way to go to get out of a storm. Ask your friendly neighborhood ranger. He might know, if he's worth his salt.

[Cavus]

Dude, one of my char died because of that damn storms. I found myself in the middle of storm on north road. I stupidly tried to get out of it, but I met with a tembo nose to nose. :-) There was nothing to do for my merchant in silks other than pee. lol. *cries*

[Jacques]

Your merchant in silks should have had guards with him. THAT would seem to be common sense.  :wink:

[picklehead]

Well, you're pretty much inviting death if you take your silk-wearing merchant out into the wastes by his/her self, storm or no storm. Hard to feel sorry for you on that one..  

[Cavus]

Yeah, he was quite a new char, so need to go out himself, but I made a new one after him, and he rocked business world. :-)

[fearwig]

I've seen storms last a week IRL, and I've seen nice, clear days near the silt sea for RL days on end that turn into sand-blizzards. The weather system is deliciously unreliable. I don't have a beef with it at all.

[Bestatte]

There are times when deliciously unreliable is ridiculously inconvenient.

Like when you're in a clan, and organize an RPT, and take weeks of your own real personal time as a player to make sure it's on a day and at a time when the majority of clan members can go...

You set out - and run into a storm.

Okay - so head back and wait for the storm to end...

But it doesn't end for another 5 RL days.

So much for the RPT, weeks of preparation down the tubes.

A pipe dream I know, thoroughly unrealistic and twinkish to the extreme, but it would be awesome if the IMMs could at least *lighten up* on storms a little bit when an IMM-approved RPT is scheduled. I'm not saying to just change the weather to clear and gorgeous for the entire path..

Just - make it so that if you happen to get stuck in the worst of it, and manage to move to the next room, then that room you end up in is passable.

I'm NOT suggesting that the staff actually do this. It's just a lovely little fantasy I have, that I don't ever expect to happen.

[Rhyden]

Nah, I disagree with you there, Bestatte. If the weather's bad, that's life, tough. If your character dies, that's life, tough. If you find a steel longsword and it vanished before your eyes before you even get to hold it, tough.

This is Zalanthas, its tough.

[Larrath]

I hate it when sandstorms ruin RPTs too, but that's life.

What I would like to comment on is what Rhyden said: there are two separate things, one is Zalanthas and the other is Armageddon.  One is IC and the other is OOC.  ICly, the world should be as dangerous, harsh, frustrating and unpredictable as it possibly can be.  Well, within measure.
OOCly, everything should be as intuitive, predictable and easy as it possibly can.
The harsh reality of Zalanthas has nothing to do with you not being able to look northeast to see if there's a gith waiting just around the corner, or with you dying because you missed the keyword and tried to subdue the templar instead of the elf, or because you drank from the poisoned waterskin that would ICly have a thousand and one warnings and knots to keep you from doing that.
If you spend an RL week on planning some massive RPT and, after all that work, you see that you can't do it because there's an insane sandstorm out, that's usually a bad thing.  Whenever it can be helped, OOC effort should never go to waste.

Of course, I'm still very much against changing the weather just in order to support an RPT.  I would like it if the weather system was made more consistent so we wouldn't have sandstorms suddenly disappear at crashes.  I imagine that's one hell of a crazy monster, though.

[Angela Christine]

I'm going to go against the grain and say Hell yes, at times the weather should be changed to support a RPT.   :shock:   I'd only have two or three conditions.

1.  The event can not go ahead without a weather change.  No change for events like a Tuluk bardic competition, because while the weather may prevent a few people from attending the event can take place indoors and most people already in Tuluk will be able to find their way to event location.  Possible weather change for a war, because at least one of the armies will need to travel a distance through the wilderness to get to the battle.

2.  The event can not easily be reschedualed.  Usually this has to do with numbers, but it can also apply to time-sensitve events that won't make sense if the momentum is interupted.  A routine Byn mission can usually be reschedualed for the next day, it is possible that you won't get exactly the same PCs going, but you can probably still gather enough to make the mission viable.  On the other hand Borsail might carefully schedual an actual slaving run instead of just sitting around taverns (Yay!) and if they don't do it tonight they may not be able to gather the critical people again for weeks (in fact there is always the chance that one of the critical PCs will become permanently unavailable, and the mission will have to be given to a "virtual" squad instead).

3.  The weather is not the direct result of PC's activities.  If some evil PC Sorcerer has created nasty weather through his foul magicks, then that weather shouldn't be undone by a Deus Ex machine.  I don't know if that is even possible, but if it is then OOCish staff intervention should not benefit one group of players at the expense of another.[/list]


The staff take the place of the referee or the Dungeon Master.  The code takes over routine functions and makes sure that the world works even when the staff aren't watching, but the staff themselves are still the primary storytellers.  I'm not dissing Ginka, she does a good job maintaining the setting and random encounters, but she really can't replace the human touch.  But in his game the Dungeon Master is god, and he doesn't have to go along with what the pre-set adventure says.  The module can call for him to roll for a random event, but if he thinks the STORY is better served by ignoring the roll he has the freedom, perhaps even the obligation, to over-rule the module.  Likewise the staff have the freedom, perhaps even the obligation, to over-rule the code if the code is interfering with the Story.  The game isn't about scrabs and shop inventories, the purpose of the game is a story about people.  The code is there to assist the staff, not replace them.

In my opinion the harm caused by needing to cancel a RPT may be greater than the harm caused by artificially adjusting the weather.


Angela Christine

[Cuusardo]

I don't think the weather should magickally change (unless by use of IG magicks, of course) for something like a war.  People should either roll with it, or postpone their march until the weather clears.  If the enemy is foolish enough to attack in a sandstorm, that's their problem.  If you're going to launch a surprise attack on the enemy because they're expecting you to stay home, go for it.  (Let them try to shoot you in a sandstorm, muahaha!)

[picklehead]

Change the weather to facilitate war? If you ask me, the storm and confusion will only make it that much more exciting a conflict.. and it's not like wars in real life haven't had to deal with adverse weather conditions. The side in the fight with a greater number of trained scouts will and should have the advantage should the weather start acting up. Before I get carried away and launch into a rant: this is Zalanthas. There are storms all the time. If you and your character aren't taking that into account when planning an RPT and haven't found a few guides to help overcome the possibility of a storm.. well.. better luck next time. I do sympathize greatly with lost time spent coordinating things like that OOCly, but weather's a pretty big IC factor that you should be taking into consideration.

[Maybe42or54]

2.  The event can not easily be reschedualed.  Usually this has to do with numbers, but it can also apply to time-sensitve events that won't make sense if the momentum is interupted. A routine Byn mission can usually be reschedualed for the next day, it is possible that you won't get exactly the same PCs going, but you can probably still gather enough to make the mission viable.  On the other hand Borsail might carefully schedual an actual slaving run instead of just sitting around taverns (Yay!) and if they don't do it tonight they may not be able to gather the critical people again for weeks (in fact there is always the chance that one of the critical PCs will become permanently unavailable, and the mission will have to be given to a "virtual" squad instead).

Angela Christine

I seriously have a problem with that. In my brief stint in the Byn, there were times that I needed key people and had to delay things for a week so they could go because the weather was too bad to do anything.

Is a Borsail slaving run more important than a Byn outting? They are both for PC entertainment. Because of these borsail's ability to not be able to all log in at once except for a couple times a week makes them more special than the bynner's who log in every day and may depend on these outtings for coin so they can get stuff they need?

In my opinion, if you insist that the Byn's PC's don't deserve a weather change and the Borsail PC's do, then that is hilarious. Specially since they are the same damn thing in different colors to me, the player.

In one sentance, Cancel one, cancel the other.

[Agent_137]

I maintain that 5 day RL storms are ludicrous. I don't care where. it severely limits playability.

I don't mind sudden storms. i don't mind 1 Rl day long storms. I wouldn't even mind a 2 RL day storm on a rare occasion.

But honestly. A an ICly three week long storm?

[Larrath]

I seriously have a problem with that. In my brief stint in the Byn, there were times that I needed key people and had to delay things for a week so they could go because the weather was too bad to do anything.

Is a Borsail slaving run more important than a Byn outting? They are both for PC entertainment. Because of these borsail's ability to not be able to all log in at once except for a couple times a week makes them more special than the bynner's who log in every day and may depend on these outtings for coin so they can get stuff they need?

In my opinion, if you insist that the Byn's PC's don't deserve a weather change and the Borsail PC's do, then that is hilarious. Specially since they are the same damn thing in different colors to me, the player.

In one sentance, Cancel one, cancel the other.

I'm pretty sure that the point of this post was to clarify the importance of an RPT by rarity.  That is, a unit of Bynners can ride out three times an RL week to have a scouting RPT or a hunt-and-gather mission, and these are ordinary outings.  Now, if those Bynners were riding out to the Salt Flats in order to intercept a caravan that was delivering some secret object, that would be different.  If those Bynners were on a time-dependent RPT or were 'holding back the plot' because they couldn't go out, I might see a reason to weaken a sandstorm.
That's how I saw that post, at least.  There are no second-rate clans, players are players.

[wizturbo]

I maintain that 5 day RL storms are ludicrous. I don't care where. it severely limits playability.

I don't mind sudden storms. i don't mind 1 Rl day long storms. I wouldn't even mind a 2 RL day storm on a rare occasion.

But honestly. A an ICly three week long storm?

Yup.  That's where I get bored with Arm and just don't log in for a week, when I'm stuck somewhere for 3-5 RL days waiting for the storm to die down.  I'd strongly recommend a code that begins to favor the storm's dying down once they reach blinding strength, and then go back to "normal" growth/decay once they reach non-blinding, so you have short gaps between blinding weather.

[fearwig]

I maintain that 5 day RL storms are ludicrous. I don't care where. it severely limits playability.

I don't mind sudden storms. i don't mind 1 Rl day long storms. I wouldn't even mind a 2 RL day storm on a rare occasion.

But honestly. A an ICly three week long storm?

I actually have to agree that I would prefer storms not last as long, while being just as common. There always needs to be a break.

I also think there should be more variety as to the exact uh, "blindingness" of a storm, for the sake of playability, even if it hurts the intended effect of storms on the game. Not all blinding storms should make you lose your bearings, and "moderately bad" (blinding, but not the worst, I suppose) storms should still have -some- chance of letting you see, every so often. You'll be struggling, naturally, but you won't be totally unable to do anything, as is the case now.

There's also a pretty distinct lack of realism in the code that turns you around in a storm. I remember trying for 15 minutes to walk through a straight alley in Luir's, just to get indoors. I kept walking back and forth, back and forth, completely at random, it seemed. And all the while I could look at my surroundings and see them. It was nuts. This code leads a lot of people to take rangers, just for playability, I think.

[Bestatte]

I think part of the concern, is that we're used to Armageddon crashing at least once a RL week. When that happens, everything resets, including the weather.

The game is more stable now, which means those storms just build up and up and up...until reset on Saturday. Not all of them - they move around, ya know? But if a sand pocket is coded to exist somewhere beginning on Wednesday, it just stays there now.

I even look forward to crashes these days, because god forbid I have ONE doohickie to sell in ONE shop for the entire week - if I'm not there on Saturday night, I'm stuck with the doohickie if I can't find a PC buyer.

I can think of a lot of things that happen in the game world, that might be better served if the game -did- crash (or was intentionally reset) more than once a week. Perhaps storms fall into this category, until a more playable/realistic system can be created.

A sandstorm encompassing one section of the desert for the game equivalent of two real-life weeks (half a game month) is neither realistic nor playable for the vast majority of players.

Even monsoon season around the equator lets up for a few hours here and there til the season's over.

[House Rising Sun]

I never had problems with the weather itself other than the way it affects pcs. With that consideration, and in addition to what I said on Mr Definite Article's topic about combining look and weather, I think it would be great if those storms bad enough to get you lost were less common, moved across the 'grid' faster, and had echos for when they arrive. If they didn't appear as often people would be less likely to have a lot of the annoying problems with them that they do now, and if they moved really fast and came in all of a sudden, people that did venture out would be caught by surprise.

On that note, it seems really unatmospheric that travellers can treat a sandstorm as a block of rooms to walk around. Foot travel is too fast and air travel is way too slow. It shouldn't be this way. Outrunning an oncoming sandstorm is something that should only be done at the speed of a kank in full run. In other words, weather changes should come upon the player, not the other way around.

[Delirium]

Outrunning an oncoming sandstorm is something that should only be done at the speed of a kank in full run. In other words, weather changes should come upon the player, not the other way around.

Yup.

[Angela Christine]

I seriously have a problem with that. In my brief stint in the Byn, there were times that I needed key people and had to delay things for a week so they could go because the weather was too bad to do anything.

Is a Borsail slaving run more important than a Byn outting? They are both for PC entertainment. Because of these borsail's ability to not be able to all log in at once except for a couple times a week makes them more special than the bynner's who log in every day and may depend on these outtings for coin so they can get stuff they need?

In my opinion, if you insist that the Byn's PC's don't deserve a weather change and the Borsail PC's do, then that is hilarious. Specially since they are the same damn thing in different colors to me, the player.

In one sentance, Cancel one, cancel the other.

I'm pretty sure that the point of this post was to clarify the importance of an RPT by rarity.  That is, a unit of Bynners can ride out three times an RL week to have a scouting RPT or a hunt-and-gather mission, and these are ordinary outings.  Now, if those Bynners were riding out to the Salt Flats in order to intercept a caravan that was delivering some secret object, that would be different.  If those Bynners were on a time-dependent RPT or were 'holding back the plot' because they couldn't go out, I might see a reason to weaken a sandstorm.
That's how I saw that post, at least.  There are no second-rate clans, players are players.

Yeah, that is what I meant.  I specified a "routine" mission for the Byn, the sort of thing they do all the time.  Then I tried to think of something that doesn't happen all the time.  It probably varies over time based on who is in the clan, but when I was in Borsail they went months half-heartedly trying to set up a slaving run with actual PCs, sending out scouts to look over targets and whatnot, and in the time I was with the clan they never did get to go (mostly do to PC turnover in the guard, I think).  In that situtation I bet players that signed up expecting to be slavers were getting bored with tavern sitting, and would have been exhasperated if a rare and long-anticipated clan RPT was cancled due to a storm that wouldn't quit.

Players are equally important, but a RPT that took months to set up is more urgent than one that takes a couple days to set up, regardless of what clans are involved.




Sometimes the codes seems to get "stuck" set to the most extreme weather, and then storms with very low visibility (or no visibility) last for RL days without end.  That is akward, and interupts RP without enhancing realism.  You can't always count on a crash to reset the weather, so small manual adjustments are reasonable.  I'm not saying it should go from blinding storm to calm, but shifting the weather a couple notches to get it to where it is still stormy but you have at least two room visibility would be good.


Angela Christine

[Ayashah]

Sandstorms are a pain. Yes, they hinder RPTs but they also help RPTs. Like the blowing up of a certain place a few years ago. Easier to avoid capture in the storms, etc.

My thoughts on the weather is leave it as is. This is a desert world, not a lush garden, not Waterworld, etc. If the RPT is so important, go ahead with it. Take the chance that something will overwhelm you, etc, or reschedule. I dont think the weather should be changed to accomodate players just because they have worked hard to bring the RPT about. There are many spots in many pc plotlines that were worked hard for to bring about a certain effect/affect that die due to IC reasons. The storms are IC reasons. Plan ahead for storms. When asking the others when they can be on/what is the best time, get all the info together and post the RPT date and a backup date. Just a thought.

[WarriorPoet]

In my opinion, sandstorms are occasionally a fair amount of bullshit, and a detriment to me, as a player, rather than something helpful. I've never had a storm enhance an experience for me, but I have had it irritate me from an OOC standpoint. Aside from minor irritation, though, I've never put much thought into it...

But, I say that if there's an RPT involving more than five players that it shouldn't be a 'no no' for the staff to come in and give the storm a small 'tweak' to improve playability. Sometimes biting your lip and rescheduling is the way to go, but is the storm blowing itself out a little early REALLY going to hurt anyone? As AC said, if the storm was brought about because of a PC or a plot-affecting action, by all means let it stay, but if you're into the third RL day of a random, code-generated sandstorm, is it going to damage anything if a staff gently eases the winds? I think we can all agree that it would HELP players, plots, and playability, whereas sitting in the fucking tavern for another three hours is exactly that, sandstorm or no.

The RPT example is an excellent one. I myself don't have alot of time to piss away, idling in the tavern on the RPT night that I set aside, waiting for the storm to subside. If I'm on for a set purpose, I want to get things done. Sure, Zalanthas is harsh, but I think that having to postpone something that a number of people worked on just because of some random sandstorm is OOCly hurtful to the playerbase, and not really all that helpful in building an atmosphere, which I assumed was the purpose of those raging, shrieking storms...

A 'backup date' is a good idea, but once again, some people can only manage to set one full night a week aside. Cancelling that RPT could cheat a player out of a fantastic experience, and for what? So a few other players get a few sandstorm echoes?

I like the idea of raging sandstorms, but do I like the reality of a storm causing me to tavern-sit for another two hours when I could be out doing something exciting and new? No. In fact, I hate the thought of that.

-WP

[Bestatte]

Not only that, but what happens when your backup date shows up and...

it's a raging terrible horrendous sandstorm?

"Bring a ranger" only goes so far. An RPT filled with (for example) Tor Academy recruits, of which one is a ranger, isn't gonna amount to shit for anyone other than that ranger. Everyone else might as well just join the ranger and leave their computer to watch TV for the next hour, because they'll find more entertainment there than watching the "You can't see dick" echo for the next hour.

[Maybe42or54]

I think the blinding storms that you can't even see your own room should be one a week, or two at the most.

But when you go outside and you can't see shit? For days and days?


As for how the storms are beneficial, when you can't go into the storm to hunt, do you log out? or do you go to the bar? If you log out, it is your own fault.

But as it is now, I only see Terrible winds and blinding storms, or nothing at all.