Wisdom

[Aldiel]

Wisdom of course effects your learning ability, but what areas are those?  Obviously language and crafting, but what about more physical honing skills like offense and weapon skill.  In my opinion, wisdom might have some effect on these areas, but not nearly as much as language or crafting.  Knowing how to fight has little to nothing to do with intelligence.  A dyslexic, lD person has no problem mastering a martial art in RL.  It is more about your body learning how to move to gain maximum power and speed.

[fearwig]

There's certainly a strategic element to combat. Brute force has its benefits, naturally, but a mentally handicapped person, no matter how strong, would likely make a terrible fencer.

[Forest Junkie]

There's certainly a strategic element to combat. Brute force has its benefits, naturally, but a mentally handicapped person, no matter how strong, would likely make a terrible fencer.

Who said anything about fencing?

>The bigass dummy of a half-giant bludgeons your head, doing horrendous damage!

Wisdom has its place in ArmageddonMUD, and plays a big factor in many things. I leave that for you to find out, though.

[fearwig]

Damage, yeah. But liklihood of hitting you? Hitting an armed person who is ready for you is not easy, and you often rely just as much on feinting and judgement as on brute force. Or you do if you're successful, anyway. Which is one reason I'd say it would make sense for wisdom to factor into weapons learning.

Whether it does or not, I don't care or know. Just my two cents on whether or not it could, realistically.

[mansa]

It does.  Trust mansa.

[Koala]

It does.  Trust mansa.

I trust.

[Spoon]

I don't see any nerds beating people up because of their superior chess skills.

[LBO]

Mansa is correct I'm sure.

Wisdom  (Character)  


This attribute is the mental capacity of a character, being made up of both his/her knowledge, intelligence, and ability to learn. On Zalanthas, those who have high wisdom often learn from their mistakes quicker, magickers regenerate faster, and languages are picked up more easily.

I think the above helpfile implies that wisdom probably impacts on anything to do with learning in Arm. Learning from your mistakes covers a wide variety of things including weapons training - I think its fair to suppose that when you get bludgeoned on the head that it was a mistake on your character's part  :wink: Some characters will learn from that quickly and some will get bludgeoned again and again until it finally sinks in that they have to keep their guard up a bit more. I would imagine that Half-Giants with their horribly low wisdoms would fall into the latter category. Similarly, when your character misses their opponent it is a mistake on their part - those with high wisdoms will learn quickly while those who fall a bit short in that respect will be swinging at fresh air wondering why their opponent always seems to be one step ahead of them.

Probably should be noted too that you don't have to be intellectually smart to be wise. A good foot soldier who knows his job well might not be a smart fella but if he's going to successful in battle its because he learned from his mistakes quickly. That or he lies down on the ground and pretends to be dead only to get up when its all over to cut the rings off fingers which is possibly the actions reserved for those characters with the "absolutely incredible" wisdom stat.

[Aldiel]

LBO, you make a valid point with that bit about wisdom being one's ability to learn from mistakes, so, I guess, in Zalanthas wisdom should have an effect on fighting ability growth.  But how much, I'm inclined to say a non-retarded but slow learner will have very little trouble learning how to fight.  Actually, in RL I have a few students that are retarded, and they kick almost as much butt as my erudite students.  One of my dwarf characters, in Armageddon, once had below-average intelligence (for a dwarf that's quite poor, but I wouldn't say retarded), and I don't think, after a year of being with the Byn, I ever saw improvement in his fighting abilities.  In real life, that would never happen.  I'm not inclined to say wisdom has no effect on learning to fight, but as an Olympic trained competitor, martial arts is not so much a strategic chess game like spectators think.  You have about six or seven different attacks, three or four combinations.  You spend countless hours of the day doing the same motion a thousand times just to teach your body how to move, to teach your body speed and power.  A skilled martial artist should function on 90% instinct.  I have also worked in weapons, and it is really no different.  Regardless for how quick you can pick up things, your body teaches itself.

[mansa]

I'll go so far as to say that there -are- certain _combat_ skills that "learn" differently than the rest of the skill trees.  Trust mansa.

[Sakra]

All hail mansa, bringer of wisdom.

[Dakkon Black]

All hail mansa, bringer of wisdom.

And STD's

I hate all stat rolling, I almost always make a stupid char who's a clumsy idiot and roll exceptional wisdom and then make a weak genius with poor wisdom and exceptional strength.

Sigh.

[Trenidor]

LBO, you make a valid point with that bit about wisdom being one's ability to learn from mistakes, so, I guess, in Zalanthas wisdom should have an effect on fighting ability growth.  But how much, I'm inclined to say a non-retarded but slow learner will have very little trouble learning how to fight.  Actually, in RL I have a few students that are retarded, and they kick almost as much butt as my erudite students.

Ok...but how much extra work does it take them to learn it?

I hate speaking about disabled people, but the facts are simple: Disabled people, no matter what disability they have, have to work harder than those who are not disabled to accomplish the same tasks.

A bunch of my friends are disabled, ones ADD/ADHD, another's paralyzed from the hip down, one is blind, one's deaf, and then there's speach impediments and learning dissabilities and all that good stuff.

Anyway...for the one who's in a wheelchair...he's not going to get up stairs unless he tries real hard to climb them. And for my blind friend...I remember when I saw him first...he had to memorize where he had to go which is more work than I do being able to see.

So when you say your disabled students kick butt...how much extra work did they have to do to accomplish that?

And then another thing...intelligence is a prime factor in combat. What kind of teacher are you? School, or are you a 'coach' for some kind of combat class because anyone I know who has actually done any kind of fighting (that's real...not your "I play RPGs and know what fighting is") will tell you the number one factor of a fight is knoledge...even Sun Tzu said that...knowing how to win, knowing how to not get hurt, knowing when to give in, knowing what you can do, knowing what you can't do, knowing your own abilities as well as your opponents, knowing the right moment for things, and many other strategy related things will require intellegence. You can't just say your body knows through instict, mentally it's impossible. To learn something, you have to conciously understand it, and then use it at least eight times before it can be put in your brain's memory. Instict runs off of memory that's being used constantly, after enough constant use you put it in your sub-concious or instincts. That's the rule with learning in RL as well as the way a brain functions in a condenced version.


So in other words...Wisdom should probably be considered your most important stat....it effects everything. When you get a very low wisdomed character...you might want to play them as a half-wit or else reroll your stats.

[Aldiel]

Trenidor,

First, I'm not saying wisdom has nothing to do with fighting.  Secound, I think you're blowing my agrument out of proportion with this talk about a one legged, blind man with no ears in a wheel chair. (Just trying to be funny, not trying to be insulting in any way) I was making the point that fighting has less to do with wisdom in a tradition sense than let's say learning English.  And if you really must no, no, I'm not one of those RPG, pick up a book, practice for a few years martial artist.  I'm a USA Taekwondo Olympic team member (was rather) and have been training since I was five.  But really, that's not important, just trying to give some wait to my argument.

[Aldiel]

*chuckle* Suppose it doesn't add alot of 'weight' when I don't even spell it properly.

[Larrath]

Wisdom can also represent cunning.
Cunning warriors live longer because they kill the predictable warriors dead.
Smart warriors can also develop new techniques or find new twists to things, and that would ICly be most apparent with Tuluki fighters and their flashy, elaborate combat style.

Remember that in Zalanthas, there are no dojos and masters who study techniques that are centuries old and have since been researched so much that practically any concieveable counterattack has been thought about.  In Zalanthas, people generally start with the "pointy end into enemy" level and work up from there.  Even the warriors with their various weapon skills skill; in most cases there's going to be very crude training if at all, and some of it will probably not even be right.


This is Zalanthan reality as I see it, and possibly not the way that the code behaves.

[Maybe42or54]

Low wisdom could just be people that have their own way of doing things.
Like me in Highschool

[Aldiel]

After thinking about this topic for a few days and hearing all your feedback, I guess wisdom should constitute your skill growth, if anything, just because this, is, a game, and one can't simulate everything with numbers and stats.  It's more fun this way, I guess, too.  It makes high wisdom important and desirable.

[spawnloser]

Low wisdom could just be people that have their own way of doing things.
Like me in Highschool

Wisdom, as it says in the helpfile, comprises one's ability to learn, amongst other things.  It has nothing to do with being a non-conformist or learning in a different style.  It is just a measure of how quickly you can learn.  Done.

[fearwig]

Yeah, wisdom really shouldn't be approached in Arm as in the traditional RPG/D&D fashion. It's not distinguished from intelligence, namely. It's an amalgam of actual practical wisdom, intelligence, and probably some other generic factors like common sense. How you play it out past that is up to you.

[Maybe42or54]

The way you think affects how fast you learn, or that is what I have always been told.

[Trenidor]

Don't worry about the code unless it needs changeing is my advice.

Wisdom is wisdom, after a few hrs of experence your stats won't even matter anyways.