A Better Way to Die

[JollyGreenGiant]

A group of four high school students were travelling through the hill country of Texas late at night.  Some road construction was going on, and part of the road had been excavated on one side.  Construction workers had failed to put up adequate roadblocks and signage; as a result, the car crashed.  Two of the students were killed in the crash.  One suffered severe spinal injuries.  The fourth suffered severe injuries, internal and external.  She ran - RAN - three miles to a gas station, reported the accident, collapsed, and died.  An ambulance recovered the only living student shortly after.  He survived.

Given the runner's injuries, it seems that there is no way that she should have been able to do what she did.  The fact remains, however, that she did.  People, even people on the verge of death, are capable of doing unexpected and occasionally extraordinary things.

I would prefer not to have code that dictates that due to my character's injuries, he must occasionally fall, stumble, slow down, or whatever.  If he's had both legs gnawed off at the knee, I will play that out (mostly by not moving a whole lot ).  If he's a gith spear pincushion and running a marathon back to Allanak to warn the gate guards of a sneak attack, high on epinephrine and endorphins and bleeding out, I'll play that out too.  It'd be neat if the code accounted for such things, but it's overly complicated.

I voted no.

[Maybe42or54]

What JGG said.

[sarahjc]

A group of four high school students were travelling through the hill country of Texas late at night.  Some road construction was going on, and part of the road had been excavated on one side.  Construction workers had failed to put up adequate roadblocks and signage; as a result, the car crashed.  Two of the students were killed in the crash.  One suffered severe spinal injuries.  The fourth suffered severe injuries, internal and external.  She ran - RAN - three miles to a gas station, reported the accident, collapsed, and died.  An ambulance recovered the only living student shortly after.  He survived.

Given the runner's injuries, it seems that there is no way that she should have been able to do what she did.  The fact remains, however, that she did.  People, even people on the verge of death, are capable of doing unexpected and occasionally extraordinary things.

I would prefer not to have code that dictates that due to my character's injuries, he must occasionally fall, stumble, slow down, or whatever.  If he's had both legs gnawed off at the knee, I will play that out (mostly by not moving a whole lot ).  If he's a gith spear pincushion and running a marathon back to Allanak to warn the gate guards of a sneak attack, high on epinephrine and endorphins and bleeding out, I'll play that out too.  It'd be neat if the code accounted for such things, but it's overly complicated.

I voted no.

Wow Jolly G, that's  a great story.. I saw this movie once.. Where a bunch of kids, killed this guy in a car wreck...

I'm not going to ask you to explain the logistics of her severe injuries. But unless the camera crews follow her all the way from the car wreck to the gas station, or maybe she told the guys there that she ran three miles, just before she died.. I think  maybe its some kind of urban legend.  

But I am not saying that rare instances of great strength or determination are not possible, but I doubt that your girl there was running like Jackie Joyner Kersee. Maybe she was stumbling and falling as well.. I mean, I –can- run with a broken leg.. But I don't think it will be pretty.

And I am not saying that you should not be able to get away.. It's just gonna take you a longer time than say.. A perfectly healthy person. And there is a good chance that you may stumble along the way.

I am sure a lot of players play out injury just fine, and that's great.. If such is the case, I don't see why a coded slowdown when you are near death should bother you. If you were near death, I would expect that you wouldn't be sprinting to the city anyway.. If anything it will give you a chance to emote out your wounds a bit more.

What it would help is those people that sneak up on you to raid you, realize that you are way better at combat then them and the go w,w,w,w,s,w,s,w,s,e,n, Rest, Quit when they realize they are gonna die..

[Angela Christine]

What about riders?

[JollyGreenGiant]

If such is the case, I don't see why a coded slowdown when you are near death should bother you.

Because it's too simplistic an approach.  It doesn't account for all of the ways that someone can be near death.  Sometimes you notice the guy in training camp who's slowing down from the heat and dehydration.  Other times, you've got an otherwise perfectly healthy athlete dead on the field, or court, or wherever and no one ever had a clue.  It doesn't even account for all the possible reactions to injury, blood loss, shock, trauma.  People are capable of functioning at deceptively normal levels under the right circumstances.

Come up with a way for the code to account for all of that, and sure, I'll be all for it.  But to just apply a blanket statement and say that if I'm down to 5/100 hp that I'm going to stumble 50% of the time and move 40% slower, no.  That just doesn't work.

[wizturbo]

Realistic, but the code is harsh enough as it is.  I consider anything in the positive for hit points to mean that my character might be injured, but can still press on until he loses consciousness.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Realistic, but the code is harsh enough as it is.

I'm not seeing this.

[sarahjc]

I would say in all instances of near death.. unless it is spontaneous death, that dying thing is gonna slow you down, I don't really understand why people think that it wouldn't. If you can give me a good example of how a person could die in motion, that isn't spontaneous, without slowing down.. You have a case as to why this is a bad idea. And I won't even through in the harsh desert environment.

[Agent_137]

I would say in all instances of near death.. unless it is spontaneous death, that dying thing is gonna slow you down, I don't really understand why people think that it wouldn't. If you can give me a good example of how a person could die in motion, that isn't spontaneous, without slowing down.. You have a case as to why this is a bad idea. And I won't even through in the harsh desert environment.

There have been a few real life examples in this thread.

[sarahjc]

I have seen one example where it was said a person could run severally injured. And I read some stuff about magickers and tripping.  I don't necessary think the code should make you fall. But just slow you down. As far as real people go, I would say anything that cause NEAR DEATH Trauma is going to slow you down. If 75-80% of your Hp is gone.. You did not get a bump on the head, you did not get just a little poisoned. If your Hp and Stamina are down from Dehydration to less than 15% of your HP, you are not just a little thirsty. If someone smashes your internal organs, you aren't gonna move so fast. If something messes you up to 10-15% of your HP, you don't have a minor injury anymore, you are about to die.. The way you should be able to move at that point I think, should be reflected..

But I would take it down even further to less then 10%, because at that point, you should be basically screwed. Again, I don't think people should fall down. Just slow down.

[facehugger]

I'm all for low hp having consequences!

[skeetdaddle]

I agree with what sarahjc just said, in particular when it comes to fighting. If you've ever watched any sort of melee battle in RL, people slow down when injured and/or tired. I had a friend involved in a martial arts stick-fighting thing, and I watched the 6'4" man hit the floor with one whack to the head. And that was through an uber-padded helmet. One injury took him out of the tournament completely. I would like to see some sort of code that reflects slowing down not only due to injuries, but also due to fight length. If you are losing blood internally or externally; or have been trying to fend someone off for a really long time, you're going to be slower.

I think, however, to not overly suck-the-fun out of things, a better solution might be to cause a slight decrease in agility for characters and animals Near Death, and to cause fleeing and movement in such a state to cause a greater stamina drain until the character/animal heals up.

[Grey Area]

If you've got any hitpoints left at all, you're not dying. Sure, you can stagger around and fall over if you think the situation merits it, but it ought to be your choice rather than some arbitarary code factor. Even down to ten percent or less, it's still an injury from which you can recover without major impairment. Serious, crippling, life-threatening wounds; shock, trauma and blood-loss - that's what we have zero hitpoints for.

As far as I'm concerned, people should be allowed to determine the seriousness of their character's injuries themselves. The code is just too limited, and as for other people deciding for you, frankly there's nothing more irritating.

[WarriorPoet]

As far as I'm concerned, people should be allowed to determine the seriousness of their character's injuries themselves. The code is just too limited, and as for other people deciding for you, frankly there's nothing more irritating.

[skeetdaddle]

Grey Area, if this is how things are supposed to be, then how come when you do hit the point where you are dying (aka 0hp) you go unconcious? Just because a person is dying, doesn't necessarily mean they black-out, but according to your theory, this is what happens IG. So if you don't agree with changing how a char can cope at Near Death status, perhaps you might at least see a need for some sort of small period, before unconciousness takes hold when a character physically realizes that they need to run or they are going to be in sh*t's-ville.

[Bogre]

I think that if any changes are made, it's -definitely- gotta have some check in there for endurance. Like your badass mofo warriors with AI endurance can wander off holding his guts in, but your pansy below average endurance merchant would fall to the ground and twitch.

[WarriorPoet]

If I hit 10% HP and manage to escape with my ass intact, I'll roleplay a serious injury or a lasting effect. Anything below 50% is a flesh wound or a savage, bloody bruise, mebbe even a break. Other than that, I think it is up to me to decide wether or not my char has a leg severed, or is just bleeding freely from a wound in the shoulder.

If a 'slow down' change was implemented, I wouldn't mind at all, but as it stands I would rather dictate how injured I am, based on HP, not the code.

[sarahjc]

If you've got any hitpoints left at all, you're not dying. Sure, you can stagger around and fall over if you think the situation merits it, but it ought to be your choice rather than some arbitarary code factor.

When you reach a certain point of HP, your Long Desc gets changed to "is near death" So you are on the verge of dying. After you get negative HP you are "mortally wounded".

I would think that if you are playing you pc running across the desert and doing a dance at 10 hit points you aren't playing realisticly.. If you are at 10 hp, you are close to death. You should act accordingly.

[Seeker]

I think one simple way to simulate what is being discussed is just to have a character's carrying capacity reduced when near death.

That full backpack and tent might be only be moderately encumbering when you are healthy, but when you are down at 5 hits left, they might become a death trap.

Seeker

[ashyom]

If you've got any hitpoints left at all, you're not dying.

Incorrect.

Sure, you can stagger around and fall over if you think the situation merits it, but it ought to be your choice rather than some arbitarary code factor. Even down to ten percent or less, it's still an injury from which you can recover without major impairment. Serious, crippling, life-threatening wounds; shock, trauma and blood-loss - that's what we have zero hitpoints for.

You -are- dying, or very close to it, if your HP is under a certain percentage.  Just because your HP isn't visibly decreasing doesn't mean you aren't.  This is, as others said, reflected by your ldesc change.  Although you can just 'sleep it off' codedly, that doens't mean your character recovered from a serious, life-threatening injury overnight.  Ignoring that is considered poor RP, and we staff will make a note on your account when we see this occurring.

As far as I'm concerned, people should be allowed to determine the seriousness of their character's injuries themselves.

I agree - to an extent.  You can decide what injuries you do have, as long as they're appropriate to the severity of damage.  Claiming it's just a scratch after being hit for 50% of your HP isn't valid.  But declaring just what injuries you have, whether it be broken arm, a bad gash, or a missing appendage, is up to you, yes.

The code is just too limited,

I don't understand this.  I'm not aware of any aspect of the code that forces you to emote groaning and screaming in pain, stagger, fall down a lot, pass out from loss of blood and/or pain, etc.  What's limiting about this aspect of code?

and as for other people deciding for you, frankly there's nothing more irritating.

That reaction more likely stems from them seeing your ldesc of, 'soandso is standing here, looking near-death', and not seeing any RP on your part regarding your wounds.  Their RP is usually an attempt to try elict some clues about your injuries from you, or to try remind you that you are injured.  Both are well-intentioned.

The only exception to this that I can think of is when someone is poisoned.  Unfortunately, the code can't tell the difference between poison damage and regular physical damage.  Your best bet here is to make prodigious use of change ldesc syntax to reflect your health.

Trust this helps.  And please do explain what you mean by limitations; I'm not clear on that part; if there's truly a problem, we can take a look at the code.
-Ashyom

[Dracul]

It would help me...because while Im not really a twink. I'm not going to purposefully kill myself when I could live. Also...a lot of times against npcs...you -can't- emote...because I can't type that fast and still whip out the coded commands that I need to survive.

If I'm going to run...my char runs. If this sort of code was impletemented...it would be across the board. I wouldn't be put at any more disadvantage than that gith npc, or warrior poet's pc.
It's just an extra thing to consider. I really like the idea.


Also, not to hijack, but just to tag on an extra thing. Damage tags would be real nice...if it could be coded someone that look 'near death character'  (or any character)  that the last couple of blows or any major (like...Grevious...) would stick on them for awhile, so we don't have to -ask- how they were hurt.          and poison...dependant on the specifics, some form of they look pale...sick...yadda yadda.        cause a twink could lie about how they got hurt.

[Rhyden]

I'm glad to see many like the idea. I myself believe it would bring nothing but good. Except for those who are twinkish and walk/run/ride perfectly around at poor/terrible/near death -all- the time.

[Maybe42or54]

But then, in real combat, from what I know. Usually you two swing a bunch and then one of you finally gets hit and they die.

In Armageddon, you can be hit, what 10 times and -still- be alive?
I personally play that off as my armor taking most of that.

[killa]

it could work...... but it would suck to fall while a gith is following you.....i hope hes trying to help you get to nak or end you pain

btw i some times make no sence when i post you might have notice that

[Moofassa]

Thats what Rhyden was saying, Killa, he didnt wants twinks to just spam walk away while they have RP wise arrows stuck in their knees and chests.