A Better Way to Die

[Rhyden]

I have a proposition to make. An idea if you will. I'll explain it here and then get people to suggest, comment or ridicule what I've said:

Firstly, how many people actually role-play well when they are at terrible to near death condition? Well, you are close to dying. Some parts of your body may be going numb due to loss of blood, you speech will be mixed, your actions more difficult and most importantly, movement will be a struggle.

The code does not support this. One -can- move as quickly and as easily at excellent condition as they can at near death. Of course, the players, we, are expected to fully role-play movement more difficult at these conditions. I know as a fact, that a large number of people do -not- do this.

So, here's my idea: When at terrible condition or less, movement will be very similar to being drunk. One may lose their balance due to a numb leg, or a cut up arm that's unbearable and fall to the ground. This could happen for every movement this player at terrible/near death takes.

Here's an example:

Code Select Expand

>east

>You attempt to stagger east but fall to the ground in doing so.

>stand

>east

>[NSEW]...

One would probably have a decreased chance of falling at terrible condition than they would at near death.

-This of course would make pkilling a little more easy and realistic.
-This would force character to reconsider fighting at does not look well/poor condition.

I believe this would prove very helpful to gameplay and would make the world atmosphere more fun to play in as well as add sufficient realism.

[Ktavialt]

I'm for it. Makes sense.

[jhunter]

Code it so that at terrible condition you have a chance of falling when moving as if drunk...I think this is a really good idea. Perhaps apply some negatives to offense and defense when at this condition as well.

[Bogre]

Realistic.

[Larrath]

I'm actually against this.
There are ways to take that much damage that might not include blood loss or numbness, or a loss of balance.  Poisons, magick and one-location damages (like getting a hit from a mekillot on the arm) might not make one unsteady, or rather, not immediately.

I'd rather if it was left up to the players to play this...you can trust a good roleplayer to play realistically as much as you can trust a twink to find a way around these things or just stand up and ignore them.

[Tamarin]

Neat, but I think before this can happen, the HP scale needs to be revamped.  I am exploring this possibility further before I decided to write it down and post it.

[Rhyden]

I'm actually against this.
There are ways to take that much damage that might not include blood loss or numbness, or a loss of balance.  Poisons, magick and one-location damages (like getting a hit from a mekillot on the arm) might not make one unsteady, or rather, not immediately.

True, but poison will make you stumble, stagger or trip, magick will probably mess up your mind, and getting hit from a mekillot in the arm will probably tear your entire arm off, decreasing your center of balance.

I'd rather if it was left up to the players to play this...you can trust a good roleplayer to play realistically as much as you can trust a twink to find a way around these things or just stand up and ignore them.

Of course, this is ideal. We all would like to trust everybody with this, but when it comes to the big picture, it ain't happening. As for twinks, it's not fair to allow a twink just get away with it, this idea would prevent that.

[Larrath]

In the big picture, I don't see this as something that will truly add a lot to the game.  Adding more and more automatic checks like that that only serve to stop twinks is not always a good thing.

To enforce more realism, one can always make it impossible to take things from containers while sitting down.  Sure, maybe it's not realistic, but it's also a lot more comfortable.
The same can be said about a system that would prevent people from foraging for 500 items at a time, or overhunting by killing four creatures in X time, or whatever.

People not playing their injuries accordingly is, to me, sometimes a very minor thing, and this is particularly true when we're talking about the lower 15% of one's hitpoints.


Also, note that you didn't succeed in complete negating my point about magick, poison and intensive localized damage - having a messed up mind from magick doesn't mean it has to trip you...let's take a slow-acting Disintergrate spell (which may or may not exist, your guess is seriously as good as mine).
This spell will make the victim's arms gradually turn to dust until it reaches the chest, and then it kills them.  Every time they crumble a little, they can take some HP damage...but I don't see why it should make them fall.  There are very many types of damage magick can cause, and the same goes for poison.
Help poison tells us that there's a spell that makes people vomit their own intestines.  Assuming that you don't step on your liver and slip, I don't see why this should make you fall.

And localized damage, well...okay, forget I said arm.  Wrist.  You take a nasty behemoth silt horror whip to the wrist for 75% of your hp.  Why should this make you trip?


Change ldesc can and is sometimes abused by twinks, generally with greater success and damage.  I don't think we should change that, either.

[jhunter]

This spell will make the victim's arms gradually turn to dust until it reaches the chest, and then it kills them. Every time they crumble a little, they can take some HP damage...but I don't see why it should make them fall. There are very many types of damage magick can cause, and the same goes for poison.
Help poison tells us that there's a spell that makes people vomit their own intestines. Assuming that you don't step on your liver and slip, I don't see why this should make you fall.

Shock and trauma.

[Maybe42or54]

*insert real life storyof a time I could have died*

I voted no.

[Rhyden]

This spell will make the victim's arms gradually turn to dust until it reaches the chest, and then it kills them. Every time they crumble a little, they can take some HP damage...but I don't see why it should make them fall. There are very many types of damage magick can cause, and the same goes for poison.
Help poison tells us that there's a spell that makes people vomit their own intestines. Assuming that you don't step on your liver and slip, I don't see why this should make you fall.

Shock and trauma.

Precisely, unless this some powerful magick is done to a super mage lvl 50 of courage, then there's going to be physical and mental side effects from magick, period.

I see getting of items when sitting and foraging limits much more minor than this concept. And people not playing their injuries well is a MAJOR thing. It takes away very much from possible death and life, which is much of what Arm is all about.

Bahamet's/silt horrors are at least 50 times bigger than your average humanoid. They paws/claws alone are probably bigger than you. If they hit your wrist/arm hard, your wrist/arm will come off, no doubt in my mind. As well, since their paw/claw is so large, they will probably hit more than your wrist.

If a limb is lost, which most likely would happen, your center of balance will be faltered. If you lose any part of your body, there is immidiate pain and lack of balance from the confusion your body puts up with. Your loss of blood will quickly make your muscles more resistant to movement, trust me, you -WILL- fall/struggle/trip.

[Rhyden]

*insert real life storyof a time I could have died*

I voted no.

4254, you must understand that this is twink. This is also IC info and I don't want this thread locked. You can not vote no because you could have died because if this code was in use, it is not fair, it is very bias and holds no reason. Please, in the future, role-play correctly when you have similar experienced as mentioned.

-Rhyden

[Maybe42or54]

I am a twink, I'll admit.
If I get a wound to my leg, I will limp and fall voer and talk and act like a drunk. Because god knows no such thing as adrenaline.

[Rhyden]

I'm just not going to respond to that, 4254, I just hope you realise the concequences of twink for you, and every single other player in ArmageddonMUD.

[Maybe42or54]

Rhyden, after this can we pretty please have code to make you emote before you spam flee away when I enter your screen and sheathe my weapons? (Not saying you do that) i just don't trust you are Rp'ing it correctly to make any assumptions about everyone else.
4 arrows in the chest aren't going to make me limp and fall over.

[Larrath]

Shock and trauma doesn't have to make people fall down.  Taking internal damage from a harm or whatever spell doesn't have to make you fall down and trip.  Losing your hand while in the middle of combat and having more andernaline in your system than you do blood will probably not make you fall down.
Not everyone is going to be frightened by magick.  If this disintergration spell was cast on a sorcerer who has an antidote potion one room away, he probably isn't going to panic because of this, let alone get so freaked out that he'll fall all the time.

Not all poison is going to make you trip.  Sometimes there is no reason for the poison to do that.


Hitpoints are an extremely simplistic and limited measure right now - it's possible to die from taking a single hit to the hand.  Adding this system (which can be realistic under some circumstances such as blood loss, fatigue or leg injury) right now is simply a bad move, because it is not advanced enough to properly support it.

[Rhyden]

Rhyden, after this can we pretty please have code to make you emote before you spam flee away when I enter your screen and sheathe my weapons? (Not saying you do that) i just don't trust you are Rp'ing it correctly to make any assumptions about everyone else.
4 arrows in the chest aren't going to make me limp and fall over.

I have no idea what you are talking about, but it sounds like you experienced somebody shooting at you. If they are twinking out by not emoting before killing, I believe it is understandable that you could equally twink out and run away.

[Larrath]

I don't know what either of you are talking about, but it's starting to look more and more like derailment.

*flashes his Forum Nazi badge*

[Rhyden]

I don't know what either of you are talking about, but it's starting to look more and more like derailment.

*flashes his Forum Nazi badge*

Lol, I hear that, could we get back on to topic please? Thanks.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Not all poison is going to make you trip.  Sometimes there is no reason for the poison to do that.

Poison makes you sick, it's a basic fact of life.  First imagine the worst fever you've ever had.  Now imagine that it's so bad that it's going to kill you in a few hours, or perhaps a few minutes.  What would you be doing besides lying on the groan, moaning, and choking on your own vomit?  Not too much.

I'm not even going to get into magick.  Arguing what magick would or wouldn't do to you is silly.

Hitpoints are an extremely simplistic and limited measure right now - it's possible to die from taking a single hit to the hand.  Adding this system (which can be realistic under some circumstances such as blood loss, fatigue or leg injury) right now is simply a bad move, because it is not advanced enough to properly support it.

There would most likely be probably one-hundered situations in which it was realistic for every one in which it was even a little iffy.

And finally, this isn't about whether or not people can be trusted to role-play their injuries, because the code should tell you what your injuries are doing to you as much as it possibly can.  What if the person hacking you to pieces has a different idea of what your injuries are doing to than you do?  Do you have a better claim to how the situation should be played out over her, when she's involved in it equally as much?  Not really.  These things need a neutral arbitrator.

[Anonymous]

I don't think "when your hurt you fall down" is what the idea is.. the idea is when you're hurt you can't move as well. I mean shit, I've been slowed down by a broken toe.. I might not move as fast with a damn arrow in my chest either.. that's just me though. IMO I like the fall idea because it impairs movement, forcefully, impairs movement. Not to say you have to RP your arm wound making you fall down, just, treat it as a forceful way of slowing you down from injury.

[Majikal]

The above is me, forgot to log in.

[Spoon]

How about just not making you able to run whilst in terrible condition?

Or at least just making you lose far more stamina points than usual for any movement what-so-ever?

[Anonymous]

I'd support that idea too.. injury should account for a lack of easy movement. Sound reasonable to me.

[sarahjc]

I think people are getting hung up on this stumble and fall emote thing. When the basic idea is that being near death will in fact impede your ability to move very fast, or even as fast or in the same direction as a normal person.

When the code says "looks near death" or "mortally wounded" be that with magick, fighting, water loss, poison or a rock from the sky the point still stands that you are about to DIE. Now.. I don't know about anyone else, but when I am "about to die" I am probably not as limper as a gazelle. No matter what is KILLING you. You are DYING and you have reached the point where your DYING is now critical. You should not be able to walk and talk and run like a perfectly health person or even adrenaline filled "in poor condition" person.

Think about it.. ever been in a bad fight and you got your ass beat? Can you get up and walk easily or do you stumble? Ever had really bad food or alcohol poisoning? The short trip from the bed to the toilet can seem like an arduous journey, forget walking across a desert mile. Someone turning your insides to dust?? I can't say I would have a clear mind.

When you are below 15 hp no matter what has brought you there, you should be role playing that you are messed up, and a lot of people don't. I agree that the code change would be a good and realistic enforcement.. How you put in the echo could be a whole other argument.