Soon to be Splinters

[Seeker]

An excellent topic that I had not seen much discussion on was brought up here by sarahjc.

The ability to destroy wagons.  

I am not opposed to the idea at all but I see a few potential difficulties (ignoring code because I am not bright that way) because of some of the virtual nature of wagons.  Many wagons are host to small virtual bands of defenders, as an example, and many -are- made to virtually invulnerable to standard assault.

You can already break into wagons with no more difficulty than you can get into any good apartment.  They are by no mean impervious to infiltration through the usual sneaky means.  We cannot destroy buildings, burn down city gates, dig holes, seal up caves, climb in through apartment windows, cover over roads, and host of other logical actions without IMM intervention.  Is it just the phat loot, and the likelihood of a pantywaist merchant inside like a soft oyster in the shell that makes this so attractive?

There was some good discussion last year about the creation of roadblocks and barriers to immobilize a wagon in the wastes, and the ways that this could be done.

Understanding that there is currently no coded way to build or repair wagons without IMM intervention, why the push to be able to damage and destroy them?  Why be directly able to trash wagons, but not be directly able to molotov cocktail a storefront?

Seeker

[sarahjc]

We cannot destroy buildings, burn down city gates, dig holes, seal up caves, climb in through apartment windows, cover over roads, and host of other logical actions without IMM intervention.  Is it just the phat loot, and the likelihood of a pantywaist merchant inside like a soft oyster in the shell that makes this so attractive?

Seeker! you do love me!  

I can't go into length about this cause I need to do work, I will come back later..

But I will answer one question, and say that it is the Loot (be it people or stuff inside) and the "no militia of the city" that would make wagon ambushes an attractive kill. And it's not always just merchants in a wagon. :wink:

That and it just seems like it would be a shit load of fun to ambush.

[Anonymous]

The problem with making wagons destructable is the same problem with making buildings destructable.  Hours of work in creating the room descs, wagon layout etc,  often times with cooperation between staff and player, can be destroyed in a 'tee hee I wonder what will happen' moment by some bored player.

I don't like the idea that wagons are the indestructable desert-navigating fortresses that they are, but I don't think making them destructable is a good idea given the current setup.  Maybe a set of commands to immobilize and mobilize them along with a 'door bash' command would be a better approach.

[Ayashah]

The Staff did have a code in the works that made you hitch the kanks to the reins and then you had to pick up the reins to drive the wagon. This would have allowed raiders to 'cut' the reins and take your means of moving the wagon away. I think I remember it had some bugs to work out and was taken out of the game awhile back. I think it was an excellent code and playing point as what would those in the wagon do, stranded with no way to move that wagon while said raiders told them get out or we fire it up.  *evil grins*

I wonder if that will be brought back.

[Cuusardo]

I thought that wagons did break after suffering trauma, by way of IMM intervention?

[Canadian Beaver]

Hmm, it would be kind of neat to see if wagons could somhow have health of their own, although considerably higher than what pc's have and give them a high armour value. Then as you're travelling aggro animals could attack it and the guards or bynners inside would have to go out and actually earn their pay by getting rid of whatever was harrassing the wagon. This would also allow pc's to directly attack the wagon via melee or magick. The biggest problem with this I guess would be having to deal with everything in the wagon. Guess anyone and anything that was inside a wagon when destroyed could be spilled out into the room.

[John]

The problem with making wagons destructable is the same problem with making buildings destructable.  Hours of work in creating the room descs, wagon layout etc,  often times with cooperation between staff and player, can be destroyed in a 'tee hee I wonder what will happen' moment by some bored player.

And if it were possible to fix that (I believe at some point someone posted about wanting to work on stream-lining wagons to not need imm-intervention, although I think it's possible they said that they can only decrease imm-help not get rid of it completely) then destroying wagons would be easier.

I do like your ideas on mobilising and de-mobilising them.

[Marauder Moe]

Most wagons I've seen in-game seem to be quite large (compared to earth pioneering wagons for 200-300 years ago).  They ARE rolling buildings/barracks/fortresses and are probably just as invulnerable to swords and arrows as the non-rolling kind.

[Ayashah]

I thought that wagons did break after suffering trauma, by way of IMM intervention?

They did at one point. I remember my noble trying to learn to handle one and they rp'd it smashing into the front of our estate. Needless to say, my noble had to pay for the repairs to the vehicle and estate.

LOL

[Sanvean]

We spent some time talkinga bout wagons at the APM, and I'd love to see some changes with them.  I've asked people more than once to write up their ideas to send to me to consolidate, but haven't gotten any replies, so I haven't pursued this.  If some folks want to write up how they think wagons should behave, I'll be glad to take another look.

[Seeker]

One idea en route.

Seeker

[wizturbo]

I personally believe that with common weapons, breaking a wagon (other then attacking in some critical spot) would be pretty difficult.  Keep in mind, if you hacking at a wooden wagon, with a wooden sword or a piece of stone, its just as likely to break the weapon as it is the wood of the wagon.

[mansa]

-Wagons take damage driving on rough area.
-Wagons must hitch mounts to them to go.
-Can push a wagon with a bunch of people, dependable on size of wagon.
-Variable speed depending on different mounts and different mount speeds and wagon sizes and pilot skill %.
-Can attack mounts hitched to wagons.
-Mounts get tired, and can be able to rest mounts while hitched to wagon.
-Can be able to repair wagons, skillwise.
-Can be able to build wagons, skillwise.
-Can be able to see out of the wagon, different rooms ahead / behind.
-Can be able to put up barracades to stop wagons.
-Can be able to set wagons on fire with the right materials and liqour.
-Can be able to put out wagon fire with right materials.
-Can be able to squish/run/ram over PCs, NPCs and Gates with the wagon.

[Canadian Beaver]

-Can be able to squish/run/ram over PCs, NPCs and Gates with the wagon.

Could possibly use the charge skill with the mounts hitched to the wagon for this.

[Dracul]

sounds cool...

One thing I think would develop...is if pcs could craft them...(especailly) with immense input of funding for it....then all the rich merchant houses would have two.

Yet...that would be good. Realisitic even...expensive as hell..but own by the rich.

[jhunter]

-Wagons take damage driving on rough area.
-Wagons must hitch mounts to them to go.
-Can push a wagon with a bunch of people, dependable on size of wagon.
-Variable speed depending on different mounts and different mount speeds and wagon sizes and pilot skill %.
-Can attack mounts hitched to wagons.
-Mounts get tired, and can be able to rest mounts while hitched to wagon.
-Can be able to repair wagons, skillwise.
-Can be able to build wagons, skillwise.
-Can be able to see out of the wagon, different rooms ahead / behind.
-Can be able to put up barracades to stop wagons.
-Can be able to set wagons on fire with the right materials and liqour.
-Can be able to put out wagon fire with right materials.
-Can be able to squish/run/ram over PCs, NPCs and Gates with the wagon.

Agreed to all...just wanted to mention that the squish/run/ram thing vs. pcs/npcs should be EXTREMELY difficult to do...but VERY damaging when it is successful.

[SewerRat_inTheOpen]

Pushing a wagon is rather tough, I think. It's gets tiring just walking on the uneven terrain, so maybe half-giants pushing? Think about pushing a car, on a smooth road, with wheels that turn easily. Tough?

It should be rather simple to 'break' a wagon or an argosy, all one has to do is to go straight for the heart. Either the wheels or the mounts. I'm not too sure where the pilot of the vehicle is at though. If the mounts go berserk [arrow storm them or something] the argosy might even go over that ravine just in front. The wheels, which should be the most vulnerable after the mounts, breaks or get jammed, it's only the brute strength of the hitched mounts keeping it going and not likely to last.