Brand new Sandstorm Code by Xygax the Highlord.

[Gaare]

After that great code by Xygaz, as he said, there will be a lot of rangers around..

I can not keep myself thinking of Scrabs, waiting greedly for the their new fresh preys: lone rangers... but..

What else will it change? So.. Every desert group will be led by a ranger? What do you think of its affects in game good or bad.. or will not change anything at all?

I personally liked most, there won't be a lot of D-elf magickers running one side of the world to other...

Edit: Opps.. Xygax.. not Xygaz

[Cuusardo]

Who is this Xygaz you speak of?  

[Cenghiz]

Believe it or not, d-elf magickers still do run through the known world, Gaare.  

[Bestatte]

Believe it or not, d-elf magickers still do run through the known world, Gaare.  

...and they will eat your brainz almost as fully as the imms do!

Bwahahahahahahhaha

(d'elf magickers are fun. On all ends of the spectrum from what it appears. Fun to play, fun to run away from, fun to die to, fun to kill. It doesn't get any better than that!)

[Dan]

Im wondering if the reason people are such big fans of this is because they havn't experienced it yet. I was a little annoyed when I could see three rooms away yet couldn't walk to the landmark that was -right there-. For about a half hour, it seemed like 90% of the time in a storm you will just aimlessly wander around and occasionally try to go down and not go anywhere at all. For the other 10% you are resting, or slamming your keyboard in frustration because you just can't quite reach that quit safe room.

[Cenghiz]

I experienced that... It was.... Yes you're right.. I was hardly gritting my teeth trying to reach to the non-stormy area. Still, I believe it's a logical assignment. I just wonder if wind elementalists and shadow elementalists are immune to this effect, but I guess I will have to find out IG.

[Seeker]

The best part is how a storm separates nobles, templars and and other snooties from their guards and escorts, instantly scrambling and isolating them into easy pickings.  

Although I wonder if the walled outposts should suffer the full delightful force of this addition.

Seeker

[Ghost]

The best part is how a storm separates nobles, templars and and other snooties from their guards and escorts, instantly scrambling and isolating them into easy pickings.  

Although I wonder if the walled outposts should suffer the full delightful force of this addition.

Seeker

It never happens in the cities.  And so I doubt it will ever happen in the Outpost.  And no noble and templar will ever get out of town without a ranger guide, from now on.
Conclusion:  It will never separate noble/templars from their guards, unless there is some extreme case.  (Like a magick bamf user wants to play mud golf with them)

[Seeker]

Conclusion:  It will never separate noble/templars from their guards, unless there is some extreme case.

I disagree, but only in terms of frequency.

I would say, rather:
Conclusion- It will always separate nobles/templars/others from their guards, in certain, probably rare, circumstances.

I have seen it happen more than once already.

I bet you a quarter it scrambles some Byn expedition or House transport mission into a royal tangled knot before the next month starts.

Seeker

[John]

I was a little annoyed when I could see three rooms away yet couldn't walk to the landmark that was -right there-. For about a half hour, it seemed like 90% of the time in a storm you will just aimlessly wander around and occasionally try to go down and not go anywhere at all.

Well hopefully these storms won't suddenly come out of nowhere but will pick up. That way we can look at the weather, oh it's pretty bad, better get to safety now. Rather then "this is naught but a drizzle" mode (I've only seen the storm once and I walked into it).

Also in a previous carnation of this code you couldn't see room descriptions, so unless told otherwise I'm going to roleplay it being very difficult to see my hand in front of my face. Now when you desperately need to quit, it's very tempting to ignore that, but in any other circumstance, I meant.

[Delirium]

I bet you a quarter it scrambles some Byn expedition or House transport mission into a royal tangled knot before the next month starts.
Seeker

I like it. No, I love it. Opportunity for chaos abounds. Being prepared from a supply and a training standpoint becomes that much more necessary. It's a step toward making the desert, and not just the creatures in it, the thing to fear. Just about any step in that direction is a good one.

I would suggest that merchants, due to their knowledge of trade routes, be able to find their way through storms just like a ranger could.

[sjanimal]

I already lost a character to it.  I'm not sure how I feel about it.  I've had far cheezier deaths than dying in sandstorms.  I guess I'm okay with it.  And on the brightside, it will prevent noobs from just running around everywhere the hell they want without careful planning.

[sacac]

Only real fear I have now is this..
When we have those storms that last for RL days, I'm really not going to be able to do anything. Which will probably kill a few pc's until they can get to the point where they know how to get 'sid and stay alive doing it.
I think I'll have a problem with it if I want to start inde and stay inde, seeing as how It will be incredibly hard for a few days a month to make any coin to eat and buy water.

[wizturbo]

I just don't believe rangers should be the ONLY people who can navigate.  The addition of Merchant's being able to navigate would be VERY good.  I'd also like the stone and wind mage classes to either be able to navigate them naturally, or receive spells early in their career that enables them to do so.  Nothing would be more lame, then a nomadic earth elementalist being trapped by the sand of Father Ruk.  And a wind elementalist, being hindered by WIND seems a bit unrealistic. Whether or not these abilities should be carried over to other magicker classes i'll leave to the staff to determine, but those two definitely cry for abilities to be able to negotiate this enormous new threat.


I -really- like how this limits warriors however.  Being a warrior should NOT mean your just a ranger with tons more skill in combat, and a little less desert survival skills.

[Delirium]

If you want to survive off the desert..

Make a ranger. ;)

Edit: Yeah, what Wiz said.

[Cenghiz]

Err... To confess, according to the helpfiles the experienced rukkians should be perfect travel mates.. But with the new code.... Of course I know only a minority of the Rukkian spells. (Maybe a minority.. Is it IC to learn how many spells in the average an elementalist gets?)

[sacac]

Or heh, use a subclass.. like.. (Taken from helpfiles)
Caravan guides? (Caravan guides are skilled in desert travel)
Foresters? (know their way in and out of its trails_
Nomad? Since they are Nomads, and nomads move around outside of cities often.
Hunter? (who have made their living hunting) Iffy
Scavenger? (skilled in surviving the wilds, particularly ruins such as those of Tuluk)

What about those? If you don't have a ranger, then it makes those a little bit more useless.

[Xamminy]

Subclasses are hobbies more than anything else.  Don't expect a hobbyist to be as good as the real deal.

[Dracul]

Subclasses are hobbies more than anything else.  Don't expect a hobbyist to be as good as the real deal.

Wah lah?

But yeah, good addition. I like.

[Koala]

I think, at least we should observe the sandstorm before we enter that room. Lets assume I am standing at the western gates of Allanak and I can see three leagues to west when I type <look west>. Then I type <weather> and see that there is no storm going around. I ride my kank to west, suddenly I find myself in a sandstorm and I even cannot see the square that I am in it. So, I am lost and cannot turn back to the city gates if I am not a ranger. Another example is the case that in some areas although you can see your target place, you are not able to go there because of the constant storm. I know that I am not the master of desert but at least I should be able to realize the storm when I get close to it, not when I found myself in it.

If you ask me, the new sandstorm code is a good addition and will bring more RP opportunities, which is very good. In the meantime the new code is going to slay many characters (obviously non-ranger ones) just because we cannot see -codewise- the fierce sandstorm that is taking place in the next room, which is a little bit unrealistic.

I suggest there should be at least a warning -when you look at the sandstorm that is in the next room, which you cannot observe- saying that there is a sandstorm, are you sure to go there? If you are sure then you can go there by typing walk/ride <direction>  (like the shield wall).

[Xygax]

That's why I added the new weather code.  (which is now active since the last crash).

-- X

[Ghost]

That's why I added the new weather code.  (which is now active since the last crash).

-- X

Hmm..Have not checked the new weather code yet though...  But could you (if you have not already) add something as a warning for the constant storm areas Xygax?  
For example..

I was riding with someone.. It was all good weather and such.  But one more league we go into, and we realize we are are in a different -region- which is a constant storm area.  I hit to return where we come from, but instead I go into a random direction.  And I am lost.  Realistically though, I should be able to see that harsh of a storm from miles away.  So codewise, (again I do not know if this is in already, it was not last time when I checked it) could we have a warning like thing for it?  Perhaps there can be addition to the room names like:

Instead of:

>l south
To the south, Sandy Barrens
Very far Nothing
Far Nothing
Near Nothing

We get:
>l south
To the south, a harsh sandstorm picks up over the Sandy Barrens
Very far Nothing
Far Nothing
Near Nothing

Or perhaps, the boundaries of constant sandstorm areas may not be coded as "stormy" so that the traveler enters the room, sees the room description and has a chance to go back or ride into the storm?

I dont know, there can be other options as well.

[Tlaloc]

Its amazing how far checking the helpfiles which cover commands that have recently been changed will get you:

Help Weather.

[Anael]

I believe what Ghost means is:
Most people keep looking around (at least in the direction they're going) when they're out of the city - to avoid bumping into a mek or riding over a cliff, things like that. Now, if they want to make sure they don't get lost in a sandstorm, they'll also need to do another thing with each move: weather <direction>. (ie, more commands with each move. I don't think that is a problem. Also, if you use some decent client you can set up an alias to look and check weather in a single command... it's easy like that)
Good job there, Xygax!

[jmordetsky]

I was a little annoyed when I could see three rooms away yet couldn't walk to the landmark that was -right there-. For about a half hour, it seemed like 90% of the time in a storm you will just aimlessly wander around and occasionally try to go down and not go anywhere at all. For the other 10% you are resting, or slamming your keyboard in frustration because you just can't quite reach that quit safe room.

Ugh...yea...not to be the negative, but this sounds god awful. Harsh storms yes, but being able to see three ticks and still stumbling east instead of north? I'm not a fan. Not even a little.

For 1 tick or less visibility, I think it's great. Anything else and it's a bit extreme.

[wizturbo]

A little extreme, I agree.  Especially when ranger are the ONLY one's uneffected.  Again, I'd like to see Merchants be able to pilot through storms and for at least one or two spells be made for the Rukkian and Whirans out there, seems silly that those two magickers be worse off than a common ranger when their nature is specifically geared to a nomadic or travelers life.

[InsertCleverNameHere]

Just read through, and I don't know how long the checking the weather in a certain direction has been in place, but that's a nice addition.  A little suggestion about the looking south and being able to see 3 rooms away, stepping one room south and blam.. Either what Ghost said, or possibly something like this, since instead of just seeing a storm, you'd see how far/near the storm is, but the concept is basicly the same.
look south
Very far - You can't see that far, wind and sand blanket the area
Far Nothing
Near Nothing

[jhunter]

I think that it's cool as is, with the exception that I think Rukkians and Whirans should be unaffected by it like the rangers.

[wizturbo]

I think that it's cool as is, with the exception that I think Rukkians and Whirans should be unaffected by it like the rangers.

I really think piloting merchants should be on that list as well.  PILOTING ONLY.  The merchants are usually the ones behind the reigns, and organizing a wagon trip can be difficult enough as it is, without having to worry about the weather conditions making the pilot unable to navigate.

Repeat, only when piloting a wagon or argosy should merchants receive this benefit, whereas on kankback or on foot they would be in with the rest of the world.

[jhunter]

I really think piloting merchants should be on that list as well. PILOTING ONLY. The merchants are usually the ones behind the reigns, and organizing a wagon trip can be difficult enough as it is, without having to worry about the weather conditions making the pilot unable to navigate.

Repeat, only when piloting a wagon or argosy should merchants receive this benefit, whereas on kankback or on foot they would be in with the rest of the world.

I can see that possibly. Probably be alot harder to do for this one though I would think. The others, just have to add the same code to the guild as exists for the rangers when dealing with storms.

[Gaare]

Subclasses are hobbies more than anything else.  Don't expect a hobbyist to be as good as the real deal.

I still believe there should be some more extra class/subclasses that can find their way in the storms.

:idea: Creating a subclass called "Scout" with navigation property could be a good solution.

[Anonymous]

... and although I am not against them per se, I can forsee becoming extremely annoyed at being caught in a storm a few leagues from the city gates and not being able to leave the game OOCly despite my not having really done anything too adventurous or risky.  Also, exploring the world can be a fun part of the game, and this is another yet another strike against non-rangers who want to operate in the desert.  Yes, rangers should survive better than anyone, but being able to quit mounted whereever you want to is already a big, big factor in their favor.

[Bestatte]

Quitting out "wherever you want to" isn't as great as people seem to think it is. Would YOU want to quit out in the middle of the forest, and log back in with three halflings staring a hole in your head?

Or how about logging out in some nice cozy spot in the Red Desert, and logging back in 1 room away from three mantises to your east, and two raptors to your north, with a third raptor drooling on your boots?

Trust me - there are no "safe" places to quit out, outside town. Even the places that are safe - aren't safe...because you never know what, or who else, might be making use of the room the moment you happen to log back in.

[Xygax]

The feedback on this is appreciated and I'm considering all of it.  That said, it's clear that some of you are becoming frustrated by this feature without even having experienced it yet.  (This isn't a solicitation for anecdotal evidence of why you're upset, but rather I hope to give you a nudge to go try it out for yourself before concerning yourself too much with it).

You will only experience this "losing your bearings" when the storm is "blinding" (ie. if you walk through a room and see "blinding, stinging sand" messages, or if the weather command tells you something along those lines).  The only time you'll be otherwise -surprised- by it is if you're wandering around in a storm that is already "terrible" (since terrible storms can become blinding from one hour to the next, or from one room to the next, depending on where you are), or when you are travelling across the world (a journey for which you -should- have brought yourself a proper guide).

In general, unless travelling long distances, this code shouldn't cause any significant inconveniences to non-rangers who are playing within reasonable bounds of IC behavior.  Normal people shouldn't be wandering about in terrible storms in the first place, and if you -do- have to do this, then you should most certainly realize that you're taking your life in your hands.  If a wicked storm surprises you while you're out in the desert, well, that's just life in a brutal world.  The best response is probably to hole up and try to wait it out, if you can.

[mansa]

It should be easier to keep groups together in sandstorms now, (ie. you'll usually get lost -together- instead of being separated) and a little harder (not much) for loners to get lost.  You're still better off with your friendly neighborhood ranger, though....

 The weather command has been enhanced to help you avoid storms.  Check out "help weather".

Help Weather

[Ghost]

The addition of weather <direction> is real nice one and helpful in this storm code.  But again, ..

1) The reason I pointed out the "constant storm" areas is that, they are stormy even if "weather" command does not say so (I experienced it and nearly lost a character to it) And when I asked why I am getting lost even if weather command does not say there is a storm, the response was "It is a constant storm area.  Just a geographical feature of the area you are in."
So, by weather <direction> we will not be able to see if we are diving into a harsh sandstorm or not.  And here again, I keep the suggestions of my former post on this subject.

2) We should not be lost if we keep going on a "road", not leaving it.  I dont think it is any less realistic to be able to keep going after a man of the wastes than to be able to keep following a road of in the wastes. (I have not checked about it yet, I dont know if we already can follow a road in the storm.  If it is already in, then ignore the suggestion)  There can be an additional delay according to the strength of the storm, but no matter how long it takes, we should be able to keep going over a road.

Other than that, the code has added some realism over the game.  Though I do believe d-elves should enjoy the same bonuses as rangers do but that is just me.
Thank you Xygax, for your effort to put realism into the game.

[John]

Normal people shouldn't be wandering about in terrible storms in the first place, and if you -do- have to do this, then you should most certainly realize that you're taking your life in your hands.

I was going to say that myself with respect to Merchants. They should be smart enough to know not to go out into a storm (would you go out in a car when it's raining so much it's blinding? I know I wouldn't and if I was out I'd pull off to the side of the road and wait it out).

for at least one or two spells be made for the Rukkian and Whirans out there, seems silly that those two magickers be worse off than a common ranger when their nature is specifically geared to a nomadic or travelers life.

Sounds like something worthy of an "idea" in game And it's good to hear storms are cumulative (I believe that previously they weren't).

[Angela Christine]

2) We should not be lost if we keep going on a "road", not leaving it.  I dont think it is any less realistic to be able to keep going after a man of the wastes than to be able to keep following a road of in the wastes. (I have not checked about it yet, I dont know if we already can follow a road in the storm.  If it is already in, then ignore the suggestion)  There can be an additional delay according to the strength of the storm, but no matter how long it takes, we should be able to keep going over a road.  

I agree.  Making travel safer and easier is the whole point of building and maintaining roads, right?   When you are on a road, you go in the direction you intended to go in, but if that direction took you off the road then you may have trouble finding it again.  Though I imagine coding every road room to be a no-get-lost room could be hard.  Someone would also have to decide when a mere trail or path is distinctive enough to prevent getting lost -- that could be particularily important around Red Storm.

Other than that, the code has added some realism over the game.  Though I do believe d-elves should enjoy the same bonuses as rangers do but that is just me.

Meh.  Most d-elves should probably BE rangers.  A non-ranger delf is an exception, he obviously spent a lot of time working on other things like crafting, magick or fancy bladework, instead of learning the way of the land.  A non-ranger delf is obviously not the guy that led the scouting parties, for some reason his sense of direction isn't so good and he is lousy at setting an ambush.   Besides, despite the tendancies of PCs, lone delves are very rare, right?  So it is entirely plausible that many delves may never ever have been all alone in the desert, they were always in a group.  As long as one guy in your group can find his ass with both hands you are fine, there is no reason for every single person in the group to have exceptional tracking and directional ability.  Be a ranger or stay with your tribe, problem solved.

[mansa]

I wish a subclass, much like nomad or caravan guide, would also be affected.   Because I like to play my assassins as desert ninjas out in the wastes and survive off the land with a non-ranger.

[Cenghiz]

Now, I've experienced the storm a few times.. I also accidentally wandered into a perma-storm region. Still I think it's a fine addition.

1. I also agree there shouldn't be an extra for d-elves.. They already are very overpowered.. If you suddenly become the only d-elf in a coded tribe with a magicker guild, you're unlucky.
2. I'm wondering if magickal walls of some elements cut off the wind.. I believe it's too hard to code. Just wondering.. I guess it wouldn't be wise to ask for such a huge task.
3. I'm also wondering if there's an IC way to tell the customer "I'm a ranger, we won't get lost..". Would it be counted as OOC information leakage.

[Xygax]

1) The reason I pointed out the "constant storm" areas is that, they are stormy even if "weather" command does not say so (I experienced it and nearly lost a character to it)

I remember your experience, because it was me that responded.  The rooms you were in were clearly described as stormy areas (in fact, I think the room's title was something like "At the Base of Sandstorm Cliffs" or other such obvious name).  I also remember responding to this issue by fixing the weather code to -always- indicate the level of storminess in a room correctly.  (previously, it would indicate no sandstorm, if the wind was too low, which isn't how the rest of the code -- even before I fixed this "losing your bearings" bug -- dealt with sandstorms.  It now correctly indicates the weather of the room you're in or the one you're looking towards, and will give you enough information to navigate around "permanent" storms like this, even in situations where the title/full text of the room isn't so obvious).

Once again, I think a lot of you who are up in arms against this change haven't actually experienced it for yourselves since the recent code changes that have been made to either soften the feature, or to make it more predictable.

On the subject of roads, this is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how I feel about it.  A lot of the major roads on Zalanthas are useful and maintained travel paths, but aren't in areas that are necessarily shielded from sand and storms.  I'll take a closer look at this in the next few days.

-- X

[Xygax]

3. I'm also wondering if there's an IC way to tell the customer "I'm a ranger, we won't get lost..". Would it be counted as OOC information leakage.

I'd like it if people didn't refer to themselves in terms of specific class-names, but telling a customer that you're an experienced desert guide should tell them all they need to know (if they believe you :twisted: )

[Ghost]

Wow!  That was you Xygax?  Ohh.. !

I must say I am sorry.  I was not aware of the sandstorm code at the time I got lost in that place.  Well.. I was frustrated about, getting in a storm, not knowing there was one and nearly losing that character.  Well, at that time, for my blabberings and such, I am really really sorry. :oops:

On the subject of roads, this is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how I feel about it. A lot of the major roads on Zalanthas are useful and maintained travel paths, but aren't in areas that are necessarily shielded from sand and storms. I'll take a closer look at this in the next few days.

The reason you dont get lost when you follow the ranger, is that, you walk or ride too close to the ranger, such that you see his faint figure in the storm, and since he knows the direction he must take, you dont get lost right?  
For the road case, it is similar.  No matter there is the storm or not, you lock your gaze down the road, and follow it.  You might realize the terrain's being smooth, and easy to travel on and you keep going.  If you are about to step off the road, you realize the change and you evade stepping off.  The storm and the difficulty in sight might make it a little longer.  So there might be delay in travel, but you indeed follow the road, no matter how longer it takes.  So you can go as far as the road takes you.  That was my reasoning on why road's should be "storm free" in the way getting lost.  

And for the recent additions you already made, thank you, for your effort and time you put into  

[Xygax]

Actually, I think that rangers are able to navigate people through storms for a huge variety of other reasons that may have nothing to do with visibility:  

Rangers have spent their lives in the desert, and are accustomed to storms:

• They know how and when to move through the gusts of cutting, blinding sands.
  
• They know how and when to open their eyes or close their eyes(to keep them from being blasted blind by sand), in order to be able to make out significant path-markers that less experienced travellers -would- miss. (and I'm referring to markers that can be made out even when the shape of the land, the shape of even a well-travelled road, could be entirely concealed by freshly deposited sand-dunes)
  
• They know how and when to hole up to avoid the worst dangers of storms.
  
• They know how to handle animals which might otherwise turn half-mad in such violent conditions.
  
• They know tricks for keeping a group of travellers together, when at any moment one of them could slip and fall from a dune or lose control of their mount, or stumble away in the blinding clouds of sand and lose sight of the group.  (Some people have mentioned holding hands, being tied together, etc., but these are terrible ideas if you think you might also be attacked while travelling, and especially if you're mounted)
  
• Rangers know how to dress themselves in preparation for storms, and how to dress their companions.
  
• Rangers know what other tools and preparatons are necessary for surviving storms.

A lot of these things aren't represented by the code, right now (it might be cool if more were), so to some degree they are all "encapsulated" by a few important abilities that we give to rangers.  And a lot of them aren't things that it would even necessarily be easy to roleplay (though seeing more roleplay of this would also be cool), since it's hard to imagine a storm of this calibre (remember we're talking about the worst storms Zalanthas has to offer).  But there are definitely more aspects to being a desert-guide than simply keeping everyone in the group in sight of one another (and remember that "in sight" is a nebulous concept when you're talking about people who may not even be able to keep their eyes open because of the weather).

[wizturbo]

Xygax:

Many of the things you brought up in your post, that enable rangers to navigate effectively under such harsh conditions, could definitely be done by various magicker classes and in my opinion, Merchants as well when piloting their argosies and wagons, having a firm nomadic tradition and a natural aptitude for piloting.  Inside an argosy some of the harsh conditions that require a ranger to navigate would be gone, so the merchant with their inferior, yet still noteworthy, skills in navigation can manage to pilot the storm.

I'm sure the staff could dream up at least a dozen spells that could be used to allow navigation, so i'll leave that to you guys, but it still seems crazy to me that a NORMAL person can travel through a vicious storm where a mage that has magick powers assosiated with sandstorms cannot.

I'll stop nagging on this point now.  *steps off his soapbox*

[Xygax]

wizturbo:  Have you actually -tried- piloting a wagon through a sandstorm yet?  If so, and if you've had trouble with it, please send me a log.  If not, please stop presenting it as an issue.

As for the magickers question, to some degree, I agree with your points (and I read them the first time, as well).  You may see in the next few days that various mages have means of evading the harshest effects of sandstorms.  But not all will.  Also, rangers aren't normal persons, by any stretch.  Anyone who can live in the wilds of Zalanthas is hardly normal.

-- X

[wizturbo]

Thanks.  I'll stop posting like a lunatic about this.  RAR.

[Seeker]

I am tremendously impressed by the responsiveness and speed that questions, potential improvements and modifications have been addressed with this great feature.

Thank you.

Seeker

[Angela Christine]

On the subject of roads, this is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how I feel about it.  A lot of the major roads on Zalanthas are useful and maintained travel paths, but aren't in areas that are necessarily shielded from sand and storms.  I'll take a closer look at this in the next few days.

Roads aren't just visibility, although some of the oddly coloured roads (like white) might be visually distinctive from the adjacent ground even in poor visiblity conditions.  You can also "feel" a road.  I assume that they are somehow designed so that sand does not accumulate on them or they would be burried within a month and of no use even in clear weather, maybe they are slightly raised?  Anyway, a stone road is going to feel different underfoot than sand dunes, rocky barrens, or dry dusty soil.  Some roads are even lined with stones, so that you trip over them when you try to leave the road.  So I think roads would be useful even in low visibility.  

AC

[Xygax]

On the subject of roads, this is an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how I feel about it.  A lot of the major roads on Zalanthas are useful and maintained travel paths, but aren't in areas that are necessarily shielded from sand and storms.  I'll take a closer look at this in the next few days.

Roads aren't just visibility, although some of the oddly coloured roads (like white) might be visually distinctive from the adjacent ground even in poor visiblity conditions.  You can also "feel" a road.  I assume that they are somehow designed so that sand does not accumulate on them or they would be burried within a month and of no use even in clear weather, maybe they are slightly raised?  Anyway, a stone road is going to feel different underfoot than sand dunes, rocky barrens, or dry dusty soil.  Some roads are even lined with stones, so that you trip over them when you try to leave the road.  So I think roads would be useful even in low visibility.  

AC

Yes, except that a severe sandstorm could -easily- sweep over and conceal a road completely in a matter of a few minutes.

Remember, we're talking about Zalanthas' very worst storms.

[John]

Remember, we're talking about Zalanthas' very worst storms.

I live in Sydney and occassionally (once or twice a year at the very most) during summer it can rain a LOT, really really bad, so bad you can't see through it to the road, you only know the road's there because it's covered in water whereas grass is on either side In that weather driving a car becomes quite difficult, the wheels might not touch the ground in some places and it'll slip and slide like hell and you can't see at all. I use that to visualise a zalanthan storm.

I guess it'd be the equivalent to a blizzard for those who live in snowy areas

[Angela Christine]

Yes, except that a severe sandstorm could -easily- sweep over and conceal a road completely in a matter of a few minutes.

Remember, we're talking about Zalanthas' very worst storms.

Yes indeedy, except that it doesn't.    If the sandstorm burried the roads, most of them would stay burried, and there would be no roads.  Ok, there could be virtual guys with sandplows (like snowplows, but grittier) that jump into action to clear the roads after each bad storm, but I doubt it.  Even wealthy city-states wouldn't clear the roads more than a few leagues from their own gates, it would simply be too expensive.  Since the _known_ roads have not been burried there must be a reason for it, something in their contruction or nature that makes them obvious.  (The roads that have been burried are unknown, and are only occasionally visible as ruins.  There are probably many ancient roadways burried under the endless sands.)  

My guess is that many of the known roads were made of big blocks of stone set on top of the ground rather than dug into it, with blowing dust and sand long since filling in the gap between the side of the road and the ground below, so that the road itself is effectively at the top of a hill and any new accumulations tend to drift down the sides.  Like the way that you don't get sand dunes on top of the shieldwall, because the sand tends to fall over the side.  It could be something else though, who know what sort of crazy things the Ancients did when they built roads.

The worst sandstorms happen many times per year, there is no evidence of world-wide road clearing crews, and the roads are visible.  Therefore, the roads do not get covered even in the worst storms.


I'm not trying to de-harshinate here.  I usually play rangers anyway, so roads aren't an issue for most of my characters.  However, roads should be better for travel than the open wilderness.  Ok, there already are coded benefits to using the roads that people on foot or riding erdlus take advantage of, but for the average kank-rider they are not that significant.  Many people will choose a wilderness route even when a road is available, simply because it is easier to evade enemies off-road.  It SHOULD be easier to get lost in the open wilderness than on a well-marked path, but everybody has a compass in there ass, so people hardly ever get lost.  (How do people not get lost in the salt flats, there are almost no landmarks!)  Anyway, if roads gave you some protection from the disorienting effects of bad weather, people would be more likely to take the road even durring moderate weather, just in case.  

Keeping travellers on the roads would make life much easier for bandits, raiders, and hungry, hungry halflings.  Predictable travel routes let bandits set clever ambushes, rather than just riding around looking for unguarded loners to randomly attack.  Well-planned and well-executed banditry is more fun for everyone involved.  Established travel routes encourage well-planned banditry.   Encouraging road use increases the chances for all sorts of wilderness encounters, not just banditry, as people pass eachother on the roads.  They can cautiously exchange information on weather conditions, road hazards, and even rumours  --  fun stuff that just doesn't happen if travellers never see eachother from closer than three rooms away.


Making the wilderness more dangerous is an opportunity to make roads more important, and making roads more important is good.  Up with roads!


AC

[Armaddict]

I haven't read over this very thoroughly, so forgive me if this idea was already brought up.  And no, I haven't experienced this new code yet, so I may be out of my element, like Donny.

But it talks in the helpfiles about rangers being helpful guides.  Is it coded in that people following this ranger guide are not at great risk of getting lost, as well?

It would be kind of silly if you're following a guy that knows his way around, but for some reason, you just keep stumbling off on your own.  Would be a nifty way for rangers to get involved with various groups as an independent, solely as a guide through the desert.

If this is already coded, ignore this.

[Trenidor]

I think now would be a good time to address my concern over something off topic...but I won't...I'll save it for someone else to read...


Anyway it has to do with Caravans...there's definately trade between cities, villages, and towns, and since most agrosy and wagons are way expencive and utterly useless *cough* usefull (well IMO they're way to big, but that's just me) That leaves us with large bunches of kanks that travel the lands in groups trading silk and fine crafts...oh wait that's what the persians,(romans and chinese), arabians, Isreali, turks, and various other middle eastern trading groups did. These large caravans often traveled the same route through the desert, causing a trapleing effect to occur where the ground was compacted, and often times seperated to the side causing the area to 'sink' into a pathway eventually other people came along and used these same routes till eventually they were called roads. I highly doubt a roadway of stone blocks has been created from areas (the north road) because of the amount of storms that pass through, but maybe (don't trust me I haven't looked at the descripion of the room for a long time) the area is a rift like valley, on both sides of the road there are piles of sand and soil that are like a courd high, yet a mount could climb over it if they wanted because of it's hill tendancy. With that, the sand that blows, blows over the road  way blocks, and hits either side, or flys right over the road chanel. Closest to the ground only small amounts of sand land, and the sand that does fall is picked up onto the feet of the next caravan or other group of people.

Simple as that: Add this line of text to the end of the main description of north road rooms: the road is sunken down between small mounds of sand/rock/soil on both sides, protecting the road from blowing sand.

Ok that was kinda corney, but it's a solution, and might have flaws to it....

[Cenghiz]

Yes indeedy, except that it doesn't.

It simply does....

Then my ranger and/or 5000 VNPC rangers start wandering on the road. Because in past roads are constructd on the most suitable terrain. Just because road is invisible by some sand, it doesn't mean it would be easier to walk on pure sand or jagged rocks or grown scrub. With every foot of our mounts, the road would be more visible, and kanks have a lot of feet. So;

1. Roads have a lot of turns or curves. This is because roads are placed on the most suitable terrain. If the road's circling around some area, we may make sure that that area will make your kank struggle.
2. Even when the road is covered with sand, in clear and calm weather an average zalanthan would choose the road instead of entering sand flats, where he's drawn into sand with every step. He wouldn't wander into rocky terrains with jagged rocks or areas with thorny bushes. There would be no storm blinding him so even if he failed to keep on the road, he would find back the road again with ease.
3. Every foot walking on the sand-covered roads would make the road more visible. We know a lot of virtual feet travel on the roads.

So I believe after this storm code's active, my chars will RP struggling to keep up on the road after a storm. But just struggling. Because even when the road's invisible, me and possibly my kank wouldn't walk far from the road.
By the way, I'm not fluent in English that much, I wish I could tell you what I meant.

[Ghost]

It simply does....

No it doesnt.  And AC's post made much more sense than that of yours.

[joyofdiscord]

I'm not trying to de-harshinate here.

Oh, also, I think this is the funniest thing I've read in my life.  What is the etiquette for sig quotes around here.  Do I have to ask?  Or can I just slap it in my sig, with proper credit, of course, and let TEH RESIDUAL FUNNEY spill over onto my own posts?

[Angela Christine]

Oh, also, I think this is the funniest thing I've read in my life.  What is the etiquette for sig quotes around here.  Do I have to ask?  Or can I just slap it in my sig, with proper credit, of course, and let TEH RESIDUAL FUNNEY spill over onto my own posts?

Nah, you don't have to ask, at least I never have and nobody has ever asked before quoting me.  Though if someone asks you NOT to use a particular quotation, then it is polite to not use it.  Like this one time, this guy said something like, "Am I the mistress or the aide?" in a clan forum, and I thought it was pretty darn quote-worthy (particularily out of context) but he didn't want everyone to know he was a dirty, dirty genderbender, so I didn't use it.  I would generally be more careful with things said in clan forums than the public forums, since clan stuff is supposed to be priviliged.  Likewise, they might not expect something said in private email or other settings to come back to haunt them on the GDB.  If you are unsure, I suppose a PM first couldn't hurt, but most of the time it isn't necessary.  Like most areas of life, it is easier to ask forgiveness than to get permission.  



AC
(Hmm, should it have been de-harshenize?)

[Xygax]

This is a pretty useful thread that seems to be derailing, so I'm going to lock it before it gets too noisy.

Thanks,
 X