complaint

[Manhattan]

Don't call me a whiner because I already know I am.
Why is my PC sidless? Why does my PC starve and thirst?
That's because nobody employs him. Why is it that IC everytime I approach some employer they turn me down. I think that's detrimental to newbies like me. YOU MAKE ME WANNA QUIT!! df gf fdgdffdvasd hd
damn nobles damn these rich people. im always in the shits.

[jstorrie]

Welcome to Armageddon.

[John]

To increase your chances at getting hired by a noble house:
* Play a full blooded human
* Be from the city your looking to get hired in (Allanak or Tuluk, NOT Labyrinth)
* Remember the nobles are better then you.

You can always try the T'zai Byn which is a lot more lenient, just make sure you have 300 'sid to give to them.

Oh, and don't take IC things personally. That's always important with this game.

[Ayashah]

Its quite possible the attitude of your character/background/etc. It could be the noble has enough pc personel and they dont need more or you could have caught a noble at a bad time.

Dont just stroll up to a noble or rich person and expect them to talk to you. Remember, these nobles are better than you, they know it, your pc knows it.

Said nobles have guards whom would, it not npcs, step forward to block you from bothering said noble. Instead of approaching the noble directly try addressing their guards from a distance from the table and ask permission. Usually said nobles will then animate their guards to address your request or will address you personally.

As another suggested, the Byn is an excellent place for newbies to start out though finding a sergeant can be an experience in itself. I would suggest, if your pc wants it enough, to park your character right outside the Byn gates.

Instead of approaching a noble at all, approach other characters in that House. Get to know them and let them know you are interested. Be prepared to answer their questions as if THEY are going to suggest you to their noble they are going to want to make sure your pc isnt an embarassment to them.

Just remember, just because your pc wants in a certain House doesnt mean they will get in there. You might rub someone the wrong way and that gets passed to nobles quickly.

[killa]

i know the feeling

when i first started i was always dieing to stupid things like hunger and thirst.

then templars would abuse there power and kill me for shadowing them or walking on there road.... Damn i hate templars they should all die in the south the north ones tho are acctually nice somewhat.

[Tamarin]

I find that if you pretend like you don't want to be hired by them, they want you even more.  Just food for thought.

[Gaare]

Above requirements are all true.

i)  Human blood.
ii) Smooth accent.
iii) Behaving properly in the cultural aspects of the city you are playing.
They all increases your chance for most of the city clans.

Also,
a) Find a way in game to earn some coins, and look like you worthy for something. Why would one spend her coins for a sunk investment.
b) Go and speak with merchant houses, they mostly eager to employ.
b) Speak with aides and military leaders of Houses not with Nobles.
c) Join Tza'i Byn. More crowded mercenary group is better mercenary group.
d) Go Kurac, They almost employ everyone.
f) Patience is the key above all, if you are playing a hard employable PC like sculptor, thief, assasin, inventor, miner....

Good luck.

[Cenghiz]

then templars would abuse there power and kill me for shadowing them...

You're on spice, eh? You're moving behind a templar sneakily, it's even possible you have a poisoned dagger under that cloak, then you're dreaming of staying alive after being caught?!
If a templar is not instantly slaying someone shadowing him, he's too generous I believe. Please think about what you are truly doing when you're shadowing someone.

Back to the topic.... To tell the truth, all above was right. Nothing much to add. If you're not an elf you're hired. Just type 'l board' in a tavern and you'll see tens of job opportunities. If nearly noone else is playing when you're playing, sorry but noone will stay awake to entertain you.. It's hopeless but if it's not, I believe there's nothing wrong with the social mechanics of the game.
Saying "YOU MAKE ME WANNA QUIT!!" won't help. Excuse me but even total newbies I recruited come to me to ask if joining House X is more fun than joining House Y, trying to make a decision between the two jobs. That must be your fault if you're not hired in a few IC weeks. Read the documentation and try again.

[Manhattan]

You think I don't try? I try my hardest to get employed. I am a human and I speak smooth sirihish. I am a law-abiding nakki.

....But even a Kurac wouldn't hire me the other day.
He said, like the Oash that told me before him, to put a year in the Byn.

Great, now to go look for a Byn Sergeant.

I tried all taverns in Nak for all hours for many game days.
I even parked my behind in front of their headquarters (which is full of NPCs). But I still cannot find one. I emailed Gilvar the other day, and I'm hoping he responds soon.

[Tamarin]

I hear your pain.  I truly do.  But also realise that a lot of players here, those who have stuck around for years, probably went through 3 or 4 characters before they even ever got hired by someone.  I know I did.  My first couple of characters were spent exploring Allanak and getting a feel for the syntax, the emoting structure, the way people speak dirty/clean sirihish, learning what articles constitute clothing or armor and where to buy them and for how much, mapping the city, etc.

Once I had figured out the layout of Allanak, and discovered which houses wear which colors and how to adress everyone, then I started looking for a job.  But you better believe I spent a good deal of my coin getting rid of all my newbie gear, and buying things that sort of look good together (I'm not going to wear blue velvet slippers with a bone broadsword and a cotton skirt...).

The reality of it, I think, is that people don't really want to hire newbies, so you have to make yourself not seem like one.  A good way to do this (beyond what I mentioned above) is to really step up your RP using some props.  Get a hat, get a trinket, get something that's unique and useable to your RP and then USE it in your emotes.  Take off your hat and slap it against your thigh to rid it of dust while you keenly observe the patrons in a given tavern, of course offering a polite bow to Lord Whatshisface Oash in the process.  If you can do this, and make it look like your character is at the very least self-sustainable, then you might well get an interview with said noble.  I'm just sort of rambling on, but don't forget quirks like how you cross your legs, what you do with your hands, etc.  And when all else fails, have the bartender send a glass of wine over to the person you're looking to work for.  That tactic has rarely failed in my experience.

[marko]

The best way to become employed is to log in regularly.

During the period that you are online - check to see who is around.  If there is one clan that is constantly on when you are - that is the one you (as a player) would want to join.  Basically, you want to join a clan that is online when you are otherwise the restrictions of being in a clan will drive you to boredom.

Once you know which group is online when you are - just make friends with them.  When it comes around in a conversation as to what your char does simply say you are thinking (or hoping) to join their House.  They should then put you in touch with a recruiter.

Some clans have extra requirements for joining and when you fufill those they will let you in.

[killa]

thats not what i ment i wasn't doing any of that just walk into the room.... btw i am normally an elf and they like killin them becuase we are smarter bigger then cooler then them

[Delirium]

I think that post speaks for itself, really.

[Cuusardo]

*facepalm*

[sjanimal]

Looks to me like you might need to get a little more polished.  I get hired from about 95% of game job interviews, and about 80% of real life interviews.  Drop me a PM if you want me to help you some.

-sjanimal

[Xamminy]

Please, sjanimal, let a helper help these people.  I know you are well-intentioned, but someone with a little more experience in the game may be a better person to handle these sorts of things.

A list of helpers can be found at the following link: http://www.armageddon.org/intro/helpers.html

[Agent_137]

*facepalm*

Exactly.

Manhattan, just go for the byn. They will -not- turn you down. Find out who the PC sergeant is by asking around, save 300, don't starve to death in the meantime, and find their mind.

If you die before it happens, well, try again.

If it makes you feel any better, my first character never got a job, and was eaten by a tembo. And my second character went on to a long career of glory in the Byn. You'll get the hang of it if you stick with it. I promise. Just read the docs, open your mind, and talk to those helpers like Xamminy said.

[amoeba]

Off the minor derail, and back to the original poster.

It can be frustrating to be a newbie.  May people forget how little of the games structure and social dynamics they don't know.  I haven't been in the game as long , only about nine months, so it's all relatively fresh in my head.  I will say that my first character lived five days, died stupidly in a HRPT. Some of my survival strategies...

- Be patient, listen and watch what is going on.  Once you get to recognizing the same people, it also means they are more likely to see you as a familiar face.  Watch how people apply for a job, see what works and doesn't work.

- Find other sources to survive on while you do that.  In 'Nak there is a relatively consistent way to earn sid that is very commonly known.  It does require a bit manual labor, and an alert eye, it's a bit dull, but can be quite profitable.  Find another newbie, take turns.  My first guy never did actually join a house, he was always on the brink, but he survived, and I learned a lot.

- If one person in a house turns you down, maybe thats not the right person to talk to.  I've seen -polite- persistence pay off.

- If you really want to join the byn (waiting for the boos and hisses) look around for other bynners.  Look in the evenings and on the weekend in the taverns.  If you can't see any you may not want to join.. yet.. unless you like to work alone, or are good at encouraging other people to join with you.  A house full of bynners can be a lot of fun, and empty house can be torture.  To the naysayers on this point, encouraging a newbie to join an empty byn, this can be a surefire way to alienate a player.  If you do want to join and can not find a sergeant, perhaps try standing in front of the gates and wishing up for a recruiter,  I would recommend once again being -polite- and patient.  It may not work, but it's worth a try.

- Contact helpers.  To be honest I only did that once, and it was over a trivial matter, but they are a good source of advice, or so I have heard.

On a final note, the point of playing is to enjoy the ride, not the destination. Play out what you have, if you are not in a house, and starving, try to go with that. Relax a bit and be patient, and you'll find lots of possibilities, I've had some of my most interesting times, when things were at their worst.  Welcome to the game.

[Agent_137]

Oh, also, found an old thread on this same subject. It's got some more good advice.

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4224

[Krath]

I think that post speaks for itself, really.

What the boss said.

[Bogre]

You think I don't try? I try my hardest to get employed. I am a human and I speak smooth sirihish. I am a law-abiding nakki.

....But even a Kurac wouldn't hire me the other day.
He said, like the Oash that told me before him, to put a year in the Byn.

Great, now to go look for a Byn Sergeant.

Heh heh heh.

Lie next time you talk to a recruiter. Say you've had lots of experience.

This is Armageddon, don't bother with scruples.

[jmordetsky]

Why?

[Bogre]

So you can get ahead? Think about it. A lot of people in Zalanthas will have no problems spewing BS out their front teeth to get ahead.

[Rhyden]

Omg, you nobles and 'rich people' have it all wrong. If I was a noble, (not saying that I'm not) I'd be hiring every single noobie I could. In fact, I'd hunt them down and force them to join. Why you're probably asking me? Cause Rhyden's a psycho, wrong. Cause noobies don't know how to play the game. They don't know what to do. So, as a good-hearted noble and player, you take them under your wing. Show them how to play the game ooc and ic. Then, when they've pretty much gotten the point, they're hardcore, never-wanting-to-leave you workers. Why? Cause they don't know what else to do. I'm not saying this is taking advantage of our noobies, but it's how I started playing, and hell, I'm still here, aren't I?

-You get my point.

[Manhattan]

Heh heh, my PC's lied plenty of times. I said I was "the strongest warrior in all the land!" Boy, was I convincing or what?

BTW, thanks everyone for all your help (after all, it is I who started this complaint thread). I never realized salt-foraging could be so profitable! I'll do this between my long waits for employment.

[killa]

Omg, you nobles and 'rich people' have it all wrong. If I was a noble, (not saying that I'm not) I'd be hiring every single noobie I could. In fact, I'd hunt them down and force them to join. Why you're probably asking me? Cause Rhyden's a psycho, wrong. Cause noobies don't know how to play the game. They don't know what to do. So, as a good-hearted noble and player, you take them under your wing. Show them how to play the game ooc and ic. Then, when they've pretty much gotten the point, they're hardcore, never-wanting-to-leave you workers. Why? Cause they don't know what else to do. I'm not saying this is taking advantage of our noobies, but it's how I started playing, and hell, I'm still here, aren't I?

-You get my point.

good idea.

i thought a good way to train them is befor they point allanak or something have like a trainning area for mud playing first which teachs them the basics of rping, another mud i played had this it was good.

[sarahjc]

I remember a time when people said that Nobles hire anyone and it's too easy to get a job with a noble house.. Now... Seems we have come round full circle.

It should be hard for you to get a job with a noble house or a merchant house. When I am wearing the silky pants I will often have people prove that they really want to be hired. Give them some task to do.  If they are an absolute Newbie and I can tell, I will give them a three RL day waiting period, a task and around 100 sid. Why? Cause hiring someone is a lengthy process and it's not uncommon for Joe Newbie to die in less than a week, or realize that he wants to be a hunter and go out with his Newbie friends instead of being locked in the city as a house guard.  

Also not all newbies grasp the house and "respect" thing. They tend to be from hack and slash and are not used to real RP. This can lead to multiple uncomfortable scenes, my PC being angry at the Newbie PC for being a fuck up IC when OOC they have no idea why they can't just sit down with me or walk around the city when they are supposed to be on duty. Also I have to give you gear, assign you space, show you everything. Go over the rules and train you. It's a lot of stuff to do. And I can't tell you how many newbies come to a house looking for a job only to be dead a day later.  

Now, if a Newbie can live for the three days, perform the small task I ask of them, show some sign of inspiration to be hired and a mild understanding of the docs, I will hire them. I am not asking for employee of the month. I am just not going to go through a lot of IC efforts and time for a PC that is just looking for a place to get fed and sleep. YOu need to want to play -that- role.

Also keep in mind that a house may not be willing to take on a new player because the are rather full or the leaders do not have the time to work with a Newbie. It is much worse to be a newbie in an empty clan that it is to be a newbie free agent.

So, that said, I am all for the hiring of Newbies, it is by far the best way for them to get accustomed to the game.. I am just cautious about it and I try to be cautious in a fun way for the Newb.

[John]

I think it's bad roleplay to hire a newbie because they're a newbie or to not hire a newbie and make them go to the T'zai Byn instead. A templar once sent me to the T'zai Byn when I was a newbie. I believe he would have treated me differently had I not been a newbie. You're not doing newbie's any favor by making them go to the T'zai Byn and your not doing the Byn any favour either. Newbies learn by being around terrific roleplayers, not being sent off to the other newbies

Having said that, I tend to be nicer to newbies and am willing to help them out that little bit more. I never said it was bad to do it, just poor roleplay (although sending them off to the Byn is (IMO) bad. It may be that the employer had a perfectly valid reason to, but whenever a newbie is involved I'm skeptical ).

[Bogre]

I seem to recall the T'zai Byn being a perfect place for newbies, and that's been said by numerous people. Noble Houses are for experienced players, because if you've got a newbie who wanders around the city and then they get fired for IC consequences, you really haven't helped the newbie out, have you?

The Byn is a good training place for them, not to mention they'll probably see more action than a noble guard will.

[Cuusardo]

Some noble house clans are not very newbie-friendly with all their rules and restrictions.  Newbies tend to want to go out and explore the world rather than being confined within the walls of a city.  There is nothing wrong with wanting to go out and explore the world, but there is something wrong with going to work for a noble house, and then disobeying their rules because of that desire.

[Xamminy]

because if you've got a newbie who wanders around the city and then they get fired for IC consequences, you really haven't helped the newbie out, have you?

You've taught the newbie that there are consequences for their actions in game and that they'd better pay attention to the rules of their employer instead of going out and doing whatever they feel like.

but there is something wrong with going to work for a noble house, and then disobeying their rules because of that desire.

I would like to note that there is nothing wrong with doing this from an OOC perspective, as long as that is what your character would do.  However, don't be surprised when there are IC repurcussions, as it is bad according to the employer.

[Mar]

I think this was already mentioned, but there are my 2 sids:

Another trouble with newbies is that they need a lot of attention. If you are only leader in your clan, you might want not to hire more then one or two newbies, because you know that work with them is tiresome and having three newbies in your clan is slightly above your abilities. You should weight the options: better not hire third newbie, work with two you currently have and be sure you give them as much attention as possible (and they -need- a lot of it), than hire third one and get crazy. Yes, it's slightly unfair to third one, but there is -tons- of clans around.

Just a thought.

[Bogre]

because if you've got a newbie who wanders around the city and then they get fired for IC consequences, you really haven't helped the newbie out, have you?

You've taught the newbie that there are consequences for their actions in game and that they'd better pay attention to the rules of their employer instead of going out and doing whatever they feel like.

but there is something wrong with going to work for a noble house, and then disobeying their rules because of that desire.

I would like to note that there is nothing wrong with doing this from an OOC perspective, as long as that is what your character would do.  However, don't be surprised when there are IC repurcussions, as it is bad according to the employer.

And then they will whine when there character cannot find another job.

[Xamminy]

Life isn't fair.  Neither is Armageddon.  We, players and staff, can give them advice, but they need to learn the hard way sometimes when they don't take it.

[Intrepid]

My first pc, true pc that didn't die within ten minutes that is, had a choice
between working for the Tzai Byn and working for House Fale.  I chose
the latter as a pretty much brand new newbie and didn't regret it at all.

I was playing a warrior pc, and while it should have made more sense
for me to be around other warriors, I ended up taking the road less
traveled.  Looking back on the Byn and Fale events that were happening
now, I know for certain I would not have had as much fun playing in the
Byn.  YMMV.

Being a newbie does not exclude a pc from joining a noble house.  Being
a more experienced roleplayer does not guarantee you to be any more
intelligent.  It all comes down to common sense and playing in the world
as if your pc was a living, breathing thing.  Some people learn it, most
can't.  It's a matter of roleplay.  That said, adapt your pc.  If he/she/it
cannot find legitimate work, find it with seedier folks.  Or find work doing
tasks you may not think your pc would be willing to do.  After all, one
cannot be picky about employment in a world that has no welfare
system.  Adapt or die.

[Attana]

Well, I'm sure most of you would still consider me a newbie.  I even still consider myself one.  But I'd just like to say that it wasn't at all hard for my first character to find employment.  And -yes- it was with the Byn, but she did it and lasted, what's to me a long time.  Longer than 10 IG games, don't know if I'm allowed to say that, but she's done and over with so...

My current character didn't have any problems with finding employment either, probably because I used my first character to get to know the game and the area, and such... being with the Byn sure did help, I'd have to say.

Another thing that helped me immensely, was reading the documents, the helpfiles, ect... -before- I actually stepped into the game.  Emoting, how to talk to someone, how to sit stand and walk... I'd had to learn the codes for -everything-.  Because before Armageddon, I'd never played any other MUDD...

It was a bit confusing at times, and yes, sometimes I did want to quit, I even got uppity with my boyfriend, often annoying him because I couldn't remember the code for seeing what's in my inventory and to see what my character was wearing.  But, I learned.  And suprisingly it only took about a RL week til I only had to use the helpfiles for little things, and refreshing myself with my characters skills.  I sometimes still have to use the helpfiles, and I occasionally go back over it.  If it wasn't for the helpfiles, I'm sorry to say, but I would have given up.  The game can be really confusing, but it isn't something that can't be helped with.  Whether it's a friend who's been playing for awhile, the helpfiles, or helpers...

I myself turned my best friend to the game, and taught her everything she knows.  I'm proud to say that she's an -excellent- roleplayer.   :lol:

[tomtom]

my reconmendatio: make a ranger, and some sort of crafter(weapons are my favoritre :twisted: ) Then hunt animals, skin them, sell hides, ets. and make weapons from bones
good luck mate!

[Rhyden]

tomtom:

my reconmendatio: make a ranger, and some sort of crafter(weapons are my favoritre  ) Then hunt animals, skin them, sell hides, ets. and make weapons from bones
good luck mate!

He he he, that always works.

[Tlaloc]

My recommendation: play a role, not a race/guild/subguild combination. Sure that role may involve playing a ranger/weaponsmith, but the game isn't about surviveablity, abilities and easy ways to make money. In my experience, if you want to get people to RP with you (and thus, give you jobs), the best way to do it is to play a good, believable character.

Put your characters skills aside. They are there to help you perform. Instead, focus on interacting with people, and defining your role in the play. People will catch onto your drive, and then you'll become something they'll go after.

[Cuusardo]

(In her best Bill Lumbergh voice)  Yeah, I'm going to have to go ahead and agree with Tlaloc.

Spend some time putting thought into your character concept and the type of role you want to play.  Your character should be so much more than its skills.