I am Sickened!

[jhunter]

The average hunter should be terrified of a tembo (for example), but far fewer people are than should be.

I still disagree with this, if I remember correctly I assessed one and it was roughly my own size. Which would be like a very large dog. I'm sure as fuck not afraid of any dog in real life with/or without a weapon.

And as far as the Hunter Subguild doc, it's -nothing- equivalent to fighting a flipping grizzly bear.

[Delirium]

A pit bull the size of a great dane with nasty claws and teeth that would love nothing better than to rip your throat out and eat you while you're still half alive?

I'd at least want a weapon, that's for sure.

[Anonymous]

The sorceror king, Muk Ginkolnes is standing here, an aura of brilliant electric-blue light surrounding him.

Mmm ... apocalyptic humor. Thanks!

[Rhyden]

I agree a lot with AC, but my theory differs only a bit:

When you're fighting these beasties, small or large, if they seem to be beating the crap out of you near the end, chances are they were pretty close in combat level to you in the beginning. What happens, is for every time you dodge them and every time they dodge you, you're both getting better at fighting, -but-, when the beasties fight, they're tending to get several more attacks than you, no? And as they get more attacks, their attacks become more frequent and more powerful. So, by the end when they're at 'near death', their skill level has improved immensely, therefore allowing them to begin to 'beat on' you.

Another of my little theories is that since most of these beasts only ever fight one battle, usually lost to pc's, it makes sense that their wisdom would be made better as to increase their experience in porportion to their
beast's lifetime of experience. And so when they fight, they'll gain way more experience than the average pc, allowing their combat to be greater.

Honestly, I think my second theory is more realistic, and now that I look at the first, it's sort of dumb, meh, that's enough contradictions for now.  :wink:

[Kankman]

Let's say their chances of hitting you are 4 out of 10.

The first six times they missed, the last four they hit.

It could have been more evenly spaced out during  the fight, but a roll of the dice is random no matter what the odds are. There doesn't need to be anything shifty going on for this to happen.

[Anonymous]

I'm sure as fuck not afraid of any dog in real life with/or without a weapon.

Yes, because dogs are docile and (usually) do not kill people. I doubt that you'd survive if a tembo-sized, aggressive dog leapt at you and started tearing at your flesh (especially without a weapon). ... Maybe you're one of those Steven Seagal type people that get shot in the arm, and then declare that that's not a gunshot wound; it's a little prick. Sure you can say -  humans on Armageddon are tough - well, then I expect their dogs to be just as tough.

Immortals have checked this frequently, it -is- the law of averages. You're just too ignorant to notice it (well, it's true).

Sa'alam,

Dirr

[Xygax]

Being not afraid of dogs in real life seems like a major miscalculation, to me.  I've seen a trained police dog subdue a subject while wearing a muzzle.  Literally, the dog used the muzzle as a club, and it was fast enough and strong enough to fully control a grown man.

And that's just training.  Imagine what millions of years of natural selection and a life-time of killing to survive could do for a wild animal, especially in a world as harsh and unforgiving as Zalanthas.  And don't forget the teeth.

[jhunter]

Being not afraid of dogs in real life seems like a major miscalculation, to me. I've seen a trained police dog subdue a subject while wearing a muzzle. Literally, the dog used the muzzle as a club, and it was fast enough and strong enough to fully control a grown man.

You realize part of the reason the dog manages to take someone down is because the one it's going after panics.

Think about it, the dog has ahold of your arm...if your not panicking and thinking rationally about it...are a guy of decent strength...grab the dog with your free hand and lift it off the ground. This renders the animal into a thrashing weight...who's in control now?

I've been raised around animals my entire life, grew up around two dobermans that are basically paranoid schitzophrenic and not small dogs.  These animals even came snapping at us once in a while, you know what you do? Rather than pull away out of fear...ram your hand down their throat...they back right the fuck off.
I have a scar from a pit bull that attacked me once...rather than panicking...I punched it in the throat and he backed off and ran away.

Just so people don't think I don't know what I'm talking about...for those that think I'm just talking out my ass.

My point is anyway, that people are taken down by these animals...not because they don't have a chance...but because they give the animal an advantage when they panic.

Edited to add: Oh yeah...the dog with the muzzle thing...you realize that if the person had remained calm and had been thinking...they'd just have locked a grip on the muzzle itself and taken control of the animal right there?

[Agent_137]

ownage.

[Bestatte]

jhunter's dead on. I'll derail on that in a sec, but first to stick with the topic, sorta:

Gortoks are not dogs. They are feral canine creatures. Kinda like a grey wolf on steroids. Sure puppies are cute, schnauzers make fun pets, and even a rottweiler can be cuddly. But you don't snuggle up to a grey wolf in the middle of the forest, and expect to get out of it in one piece. That's just a fact of life, and gortoks are a fact of life in Armageddon.

now to derail:

If a dog lunges at you, your absolute best defense is to place your hand in its mouth and clamp down on its lower teeth, curling your fingers around its jaw. It is -defenseless- that way. It cannot bite, it cannot claw, it cannot do anything other than whimper. And even then it can't whimper very well because you've got its tongue stuck against its teeth. If you then lean over the animal (you -must- raise yourself to be at a higher elevation than the canine), and give one of its ears a sharp bite, he will back off and submit.  You don't even need to draw blood. Their ear tips are extremely sensitive.

That's how I trained my half-rottweiler/half german shepard to be a city dog without a leash. Everyone ELSE was scared shitless of her except for the folks in the 'hood, who knew she was just a big ole smoochie-bear. But for all her barking and chasing joggers and mailmen, she never once showed any signs of aggression. Even though she hung out with a pair of trained attack dobies when I was off at school for the day.

Human's "fight or flight" mentality, however, generally sends us into a panick and forces us to attempt to push the dog away, or run away ourselves. And that just proves to the dog that it -is- the dominant, and he'll turn you into his next chew-toy.

[Xamminy]

Now, tell me you wouldn't be afraid of a rabid dog the size of a pony that is mostly lizard and has teeth the size of your hand.

[Tamarin]

...she was just a big ole smoochie-bear...

Will you be my smoochie-bear?

Now, tell me you wouldn't be afraid of a rabid dog the size of a pony that is mostly lizard and has teeth the size of your hand.

Fear only extends as far as experience.  If you have this newfound knowledge that you can subdue, with relative ease, an animal that is for all intents and purposes more dangerous than you, and it's going to -kill you- anyway, you're not going to run.  You're probably going to think "well I might as well do this since I'm a dead man anyway."  And then blam.  Puppy-eyed gortok.  That or it high-tails it.

[jhunter]

If a dog lunges at you, your absolute best defense is to place your hand in its mouth and clamp down on its lower teeth, curling your fingers around its jaw. It is -defenseless- that way. It cannot bite, it cannot claw, it cannot do anything other than whimper. And even then it can't whimper very well because you've got its tongue stuck against its teeth. If you then lean over the animal (you -must- raise yourself to be at a higher elevation than the canine), and give one of its ears a sharp bite, he will back off and submit. You don't even need to draw blood. Their ear tips are extremely sensitive.

I've used this with our dobermans as well. Funny how fast they want to get away from you when you grab their jaw like that isn't it?

Human's "fight or flight" mentality, however, generally sends us into a panick and forces us to attempt to push the dog away, or run away ourselves. And that just proves to the dog that it -is- the dominant, and he'll turn you into his next chew-toy.

Absolutely correct Bestatte. You must show no fear and establish domination over the dog or you -will- get further hurt.
I worked at our animal shelter for a couple months and the animal control officers there were afraid of dogs...I found this absolutely hilarious being around dogs my entire life.

They wouldn't get in the cages with some of the dogs that came through there...claiming that the dogs snarled and growled at them whenever they came near the cage. I told them, they can tell your afraid so they're pushing it because they know -they're- in control. I would get in the cages with those same animals and they didn't growl at me...would in fact lick me and let me pet them.

Had they gotten in the cages with them, they probably would've been attacked.
To get over this derailment and in conclusion, it's actually a miscalculation to be afraid of any dog. One should be cautious with a strange dog, but not afraid.

[jhunter]

Xamminy wrote:
Now, tell me you wouldn't be afraid of a rabid dog the size of a pony that is mostly lizard and has teeth the size of your hand.

So does that mean my human pc that I was playing at the time I assessed a tembo was the size of a pony? Because it assessed the same size as my pc at the time. I seriously want to know, because if so there may have been a bug with that pc's size I wasn't aware of, then that would mean I have a misconception of the creature's size.


Why would anyone trained to fight be more afraid of an animal their size than another intelligent being with weapons their size? Humanoids attack each other from time to time.

Shit, by some of your reasoning...halfling npcs shouldn't be aggressive...considering how small they are...by what everyone else is saying it's unrealistic for them to attack anything bigger than them alone...but they do it anyway.

[sarahjc]

I also like to think of this as "last minute fear"  You are fighting a Tembo right.. so you are fighting and fighting and you seem to be kicking the crap out of it It's landed a couple solid hits on you and you have a bit of damage.. But nothing that you are gonna flee for.. I mean you are KILLING it...

You think Cool.. I am so bad ass. But then all of a sudden, it's near death and it lands one hit.. then another.. then you miss your hit and it gets ANOTHER hit.

Now you are looking not so good and this thing ISN'T Fucking Dead yet!!!

You then go blow for blow and you are looking just as bad as the Tembo was a minute ago.. So you flee. Bloody and half dead.. And now this half dead thing is tracking you.  FUCK.... This code is bullshit.

OK, now weather you live or die in this scene. Go back and take a look at your fight. How many hits did you land on that animal, and what kinds? How many did it land on you and what kinds?

I always thought it was pretty random. You may have been lucky the first round and the Tembo was lucky the second round. It may also be a -lot- stronger than you. Where as you may land 6 hits and do some damage,  it may only land 4 and have you almost dead.

It's just like that time when that Tembo was chasing you and you had almost no hit points and O stamina so you had to fight. By some miracle you were able to kill it. Same thing here, just dumb luck.

[Xamminy]

jhunter, don't take one part of why you should have some fear and make it seem as if I was saying that is the only reason or that lack of one or more of those qualities should be a reason not to fear something else.

Reasons to be afraid:
1: Rabid
2: Canine (large, powerful jaws and some claws, predator)
3: Size of a pony (tough and strong)

These things combine to be a reason to be afraid of this particular animal and this animal only.

[jhunter]

jhunter, don't take one part of why you should have some fear and make it seem as if I was saying that is the only reason or that lack of one or more of those qualities should be a reason not to fear something else.

Reasons to be afraid:
1: Rabid
2: Canine (large, powerful jaws and some claws, predator)
3: Size of a pony (tough and strong)

These things combine to be a reason to be afraid of this particular animal and this animal only.

...okaaay...so...what was the relevancy of the post then?

[Xamminy]

To tell you there are multiple reasons, and you were discounting some instead of paying attention to all, which you still seem to be missing.

[jhunter]

The main reason others gave initially was size difference.

That is what I was going off of. And yes, imo the other things are not reason enough...those things combined with a large size advantage probably is enough. With out it no.

A chihuahah can be rabid, has claws teeth...so I guess I should be afraid of one?

[Angela Christine]

I would definately be concerned if attacked by a rabid chihuahah.  Sure, it would have to get really, really lucky to kill me.  But it only has to break the skin to totally ruin my day, and it doesn't have to be very lucky to break the skin -- some of those little dogs have teeth like needles!  You don't want to mess with rabies.


I once got my ass kicked by a feral kitten, maybe three months old.  It was winter and I was trying to catch the kitten, while the kitten was trying not to be caught.  The tricky part was that I was trying to catch it without hurting it, which limited me, while the kitten was willing to do anything at all to get away from me.  The little begger bit the meaty part of my hand, right by the thumb.  Within a few hours I my hand was burning hot and I could feel the infection moving up my arm towards my elbow.  I had to go on awful antibiotics for two weeks, the antibiotic made me seriously queasy, I think it was Eurethromyacin.  Without the antibiotics . . . well, I could have been killed by the bacteria that live inside a feral kitten's mouth.  Death by kitten, that isn't going to look good in the obits.


I guess my point is that there are some ways in which an animal is worse than a guy with a weapon.  Basic weapon maintenance involves keeping it clean and dry, which incidentally means that relatively few infectious bacteria are living on it.  In contrast a nice warm, damp mouth full of nutrients is like Disneyland for bacteria, so wounds from teeth often become infected.  PCs only rarely get infections or diseases from animal bites, but that doesn't mean that people don't know how dangeous an animal bite can be.


AC

[Anonymous]

As I previously stated, dogs are DOCILE (whether they attack or not, they are generally tranquil), and they are domesticated animals. I doubt your tactics would have worked against a wolf, hardly a tiger or a lion. That was reason number one, stop comparing them to dogs (or don't).
Reason number two: Just like on Earth (this would actually occur, I'm assuming), humanoids (and other animals) would possess innate phobias of natural predators. Example - on Earth many people develop insignificant phobias for arachnids, insects, etc. Why? Because a few millennia ago, they posed a significant danger (notice that very few individuals, if any, develop phobias of guns that are much more deadlier). Likewise, on Zalanthas, humanoids (and other creatures) would possess innate phobias (caution if you prefer) for predators such as temboes.

Sa'alam,

Dirr

[jhunter]

That doesn't make any sense AC.
 

I mean really, the weapon could be poisoned anyway.



Yes, there is going to be more than one reason. My point is that it's going to take a combination of a few for people to be too afraid to attempt it. Or one -really- good one.

[jhunter]

Likewise, on Zalanthas, humanoids (and other creatures) would possess innate phobias (caution if you prefer) for predators such as temboes.

But not all, and certainly isn't guaranteed that it has to be the norm. Wolves aren't docile, they are predators...and I wouldn't be any more scared of one than I would a dog. Now several of them on the otherhand would be a different story.

Because the same things you can do to a dog would work on a wolf, in fact there are several dogs that get much bigger than a wolf.

Not everyone is afraid of spiders, snakes, dogs, cats, gerbils, wolves, dust mites.

Everyone is different, the point is that there isn't really any specific standard that everyone should be set to as correct or incorrect...just like there isn't in real life.