Posting Anonymously -- Good idea or bad idea

[Opinionated Kank]

Hello,

I was recently participating on another thread where things turned ugly.  Partially my fault, partially other people's fault.  I think most of the people involved would rather drop the whole thing.

Fair enough, right?  Well I want something positive to come out of this.

So here is what I think we should discuss.  

Posting Anonymously:

I've noticed that some people seem to have a lot of scorn towards anonymous posters.  They seem to assume that anonymous posters are "lacking in balls" or are "noobs" who are logged out, or are otherwise unentitled to have an opinion, or just idiots.

And there is a certain logic behind this prejudice.  After all, you don't know the persons reputation.  They could literally be anyone.  The only thing you have to evaluate them on is their writing style, any claims they make (true/untrue?) and the content of their ideas.

But for the sake of argument, aren't there a lot of good reasosns to post anonymously?

example, spare people's feelings, say things that are controvertial but are needed to be said without drawing a bunch of angry PMs, etc.

So when some one posts annonymously, shouldn't we read what they have to say with an open mind?

Ironically, I write this post witht he knowledge that some people will disregard it's content because I am logged out when writing it.

If you respond to this post, I would like to please ask that you limit your response to the merits/detriments of the ideas here.  I'm interested in learning other people's opinions on this, even the opinions of people who are mad at me provided you can phrase them in a positive way.

[Cenghiz]

"lacking in balls" or are "noobs" who are logged out, or are otherwise unentitled to have an opinion, or just idiots.

After reading your posts, I agree with all....

Normally posting anonymously to avoid revealing IC information about your character is good. I do it a lot of times. Let's say I have a half-giant magicker. If I consequently ask questions about half-giants and magickers, most people would know that there is a half-giant that is a magicker.. If you also accidentally leak information about your surroundings, the secret of your char would be resolved...
I don't think someone would cheat using this information, but not knowing that that half-giant is a magicker is more fun IG.

However, logging out to say anything publicly to another humble poster and get away with ease? You said everything we can say about you.

[Marauder Moe]

The only reason I ever post anonymously is if I have a question/comment that could contain clues to my current or recently passed characters' identities.  I don't think I've ever logged out to post an opintion (or flame) that I feared would be unpopular or critical of the staff.

A note to anonymous flamers: the mods (immortals) CAN find out who you are.  Don't feel like you can break the GDB's rules by posting anonymously.

[Larrath]

I don't care whether a post was made by a registered user or by a Kank.

This prejudice, though?  I made a few anonymous posts when I didn't want a particular sentiment directly attached to my name, and it was 'cowardly'.
I don't think there are any other good reasons for anonymous posting, with the sole exception of a post being a dead giveaway to the character you are currently playing.

Being anonymous sure as hell doesn't spare anyone's feelings, and that's that.

[Opinionated Kank]

Well, it looks like some people specifically hate me, but that other than that specific hatred, there is no reason to specifically hate someone solely because they're anonymous.

That being generally agreed upon, I think it poor form to crack on someone merely because they're logged out.  

Crack on what they've said.  Sure.  But I've seen this a lot in the past, some people tell persons that what they are saying has no merit because they're logged out.  

So if something positive can come from this, next time you see someone making fun of someone for posting logged out, you tell them "Hey, they can post logged-out if they want to.  Find a legitamate gripe with them or leave them alone."

[Cenghiz]

No... I flame every stupid thread I read. Anon or not I don't care. You may check my old posts.. None is deleted. Your opinions are nonsense.

Opinionated Kank: F

[Gilvar]

Anonymous posting is an unnecessary product of the insidiousness in our community. As anyone who reads the forums regularly can see, there is tons of flaming, tons of baseless arguing, and just angry, abusive posts for no real reason.

And because Armageddon's community is so connected people often can associate a forum name with not only characters, but their player, and may even know them in real life, in instant messangers, or in IRC (to name a few).

So, as a result of the first paragraph, players become defensive of their opinions, ideas, etc. Because people learn to react defensively from offensive posts. And a good defense measure is anonymity, whereby no one can hold those opinions/thoughts to you, but at the same time they are voiced.

Marauder Moe sums it up well: "The only reason I ever post anonymously is if I have a question/comment that could contain clues to my current or recently passed characters' identities." Well ideally, it shouldn't matter. So what if someone can connect a forum personality with a character. Or furthermore why should it be believed that players will act on these cues? (Well the answer is because they more often then naught do, so the trend Moe says has developed.)

So part of the problem is the communities interconnectedness, and part is just how people handle themselves on the forum, and carry information over into their characters. A similar discussion on anonymous posts has occurred between staff, and we have split feelings on it as well.

[Marauder Moe]

As anyone who reads the forums regularly can see, there is tons of flaming, tons of baseless arguing, and just angry, abusive posts for no real reason.

Aw, I wouldn't say that.  This is one of the nicest and most civil forums I've ever visited regularly.  I've seen some forums with amounts/intensity of flames that would make Tektolnes weep.  I'm not talking about unmoderated forums either...

[Bestatte]

There are times when posting anon is appropriate and times when it isn't, IMO.

If you're asking a question or making a comment about an event, or clan, or other IC thing that would lead people to identify your character, then I think posting anon is a good thing.

If you're criticizing someone else's post, then I think it's a bad thing.

Regardless, a word of advice, offered by one who learned the hard way:

Do NOT - ever - EVER! post anon, and then post as yourself in the same thread. Or vice versa. This is a BAD THING [tm].

[Tlaloc]

It should also be noted: if you are making a post, and the post might 'give away who you are playing', then its very likely that the post contains too much IC information to be discussed on the GDB. In such cases: don't post. Instead, email your question/s to mud@ginka.armageddon.org, or your clan immortals, or (preferably) both.

So...in such cases, you shouldn't need to post anonymously, because there should be no post.

[Spoon]

I think posts containing anonymous flames should be changed to their account name by the staff, so we all know who's being a twat.

[Bestatte]

Oh Tlaloc, I was thinking of things a bit more mundane...

Like:

"To the hooded figure who interacted with the guy with the shiny thing yesterday - great RP, thanks!"

Since you can't really expect a staff member to research the entire log to find out WHICH hooded figure was interacting with WHICH guy at any given moment, and come up with their ID and e-mail them a forward of your kudos.

Stuff like that, I think makes sense to be dealt with Anon.

Or if you're asking questions about a new skill - maybe syntax on using a rope, and there are plenty of people who know that your character just started expressing interest in that very skill (climbing in this example) - again it makes sense to post anon, so people won't equate "JoePoster" with "JamieClimber" in the game.

[Xerokine]

To be honest with all of you, I don't see your problems with anonymous posting. Yes, flaming in any case, anonymous or not, is something that shouldn't be condoned. However, why would you care that your not able to see the person's name who is posting? Is it such an enormous deal that you see their names so you can point, laugh and return a flame to that person via PM or within the thread itself? They have still voiced their opinions, whether you agree with them or not. If they make valids points that you feel you need to post your opposing/agreeing position on the matter then why should it matter whether or not you see their name?

[Spoon]

I was thinking it would simply disencourage people to flame in the first place. People might just walk away. Sure, if someone was rude to me in the street I'd probably do something about it, but on a GDB?

No, there's more important things to worry about.

[Agent_137]

I haven't posted today yet:


mmmmmmbeermmmmmm.

[Bestatte]

Well I can think of one -very- significant reason:

You can't PM anonymous kanks.  You can't offer them private advice, or private criticism, away from people who don't need to know that you're offering this. You can't tell someone that they're doing/posting/saying/thinking something inappropriate, without risking them being humiliated on the GDB, because there is no way you can send them a private note.

I've had people PM me on occasion to let me know that I totally goofed on a thread...and I appreciated the fact that they came to me privately rather than call me out and intentionally embarrass me on the GDB. I have done the same for others, and most seem to have appreciated it as well.

[Anonymous]

I'm not going to defend flames, but there is something specially lame about flaming while anonymous.  I don't care if someone wants to post about a specific situation or question relating to the game anonymously, but I have no respect for people who post anonymously to tell someone off.

I wouldn't be surprised if the same folks that say nasty things while hiding behind anonymity are the same folks who post 'Yeah, that's a great idea!' anonymously to back up something they posted with their GDB account.

[Angela Christine]

One of the problems with posting anonymously comes up if you post more than once in a discussion, and/or several anonymous people post in discussion.  If you don't bother to give yourself a name then it gets to be very difficult for people to follow the flow of the discussion because there is no way to tell who is saying what.  It can appear that you are contradicting yourself, because a bunch of people with different opinions all post as "Anonymous".  That sucks.

I suggest at least picking a name and using it for all of your anonymous posting.  Even better, get a second GDB account.  Use one for general posting and one for "sensitive" posting.

Generally I think anon posting is lame, because the poster isn't willing to stand up and own his opinions.  What is that about?  Tell us how you really feel, what is the worst that could happen?  Ok, if it is something really unpopular people may take a dislike to you, but if that happens and you don't want to deal with it then you can always get a new GDB accound, a fresh start with a new identity.

Anon posting is also bad in many cases, because there is no way to tell a newbie who is merely clueless from an established player who is being a jackass.  Newbies get a little extra patience and coddling, jackasses do not.  If you want to be a jerk, at least be a man about it.  An anonymous poster may also be a non-player, someone who found the GDB and decided to troll.  As a matter of policy it is usually better to not feed the trolls.

In general I will have more respect for a poster, even if I disagree with them, if they post under their own name rather than hiding under a temporary identity.  Persistant identities allow a poster to build up credibility.  Anonymous posters have no history, and no credibility.


AC

[JollyGreenGiant]

I post anonymously whenever I think posting using my GDB name would make it too obvious who I play.  Aside from that, though, why bother?

[marko]

Personally, I do not post anonymously anymore.

I used to about a year and more ago when I felt my identity would be revealed but then I thought about it.  If what I was posting made it apparent what I was playing then I shouldn't be posting it.

Since then I've used that as my guide.  I no longer post anonymously.  I find that rarely do people post anonymously for a good reason.  

If there is even a hint of a flame in an anonymous post it seems to me that the poster is only posting because it is anonymous.  If you are going to flame someone - use your true account.  And you know what?  If revealing who you are prevents your post... good.  It probably wasn't beneficial to the conversation anyway.

I believe that any time someone posts anonymously and flames another user or a situation then I really feel the moderators should track down the user and make a note on their game account.  That person just proved they are immature and petty.

[Gaare]

I believe that any time someone posts anonymously and flames another user or a situation then I really feel the moderators should track down the user and make a note on their game account.  That person just proved they are immature and petty.

I totally agree.

If you wanna post anonymously and flame someone, write that as a word document, and delete after it. I personally even do not read anonymous posts.

[EvilRoeSlade]

You can't PM anonymous kanks.

One of the problems with posting anonymously comes up if you post more than once in a discussion, and/or several anonymous people post in discussion. If you don't bother to give yourself a name then it gets to be very difficult for people to follow the flow of the discussion because there is no way to tell who is saying what.

I'm not going to defend flames, but there is something specially lame about flaming while anonymous.

If revealing who you are prevents your post... good. It probably wasn't beneficial to the conversation anyway.

Anonymous posting is an unnecessary product of the insidiousness in our community.

[Xygax]

I am opposed enough to anonymous posting to once have proposed that we disallow it entirely.  That said, I do think that it provides at the very least an opportunity for a new player to check out our environment, ask questions, etc. without being confronted with the annoyance of completing an identification form.  That's worth it, I suppose.

That said, I almost always take anonymous posts less seriously, or skim/avoid them entirely.  The only time that an anonymous post is more interesting is when the content is inflammatory, and then, my interest is probably misplaced from where you ("you", the Anonymous Kank) would want it to be.

-- X

[EvilRoeSlade]

Heh, I'm with you Xygax.  I even once tried to gather up all my friends and people I've spoken with in the past to all get together and do nothing but post anonymously for an entire week, to see if it would sway the staff's decision to allow anonymous posts.  Of course, everyone agreed to do it and then mysteriously failed to, but that's another story.

[Larrath]

I'd rather anonymous postings were still allowed.

Flames happen all the time, sure, but I sure as hell know I'd think twice before posting a full set of questions about nobles or elves or merchants or the rebel subguild if it would lead to everyone knowing exactly who I play.
I believe this thread is a good example of this.
There is, of course, also the case of new players who still don't know if they want to stick around and make an account or not.

This is an issue that needs to be solved, but not by a measure this drastic.  Maybe it is possible, though, to remove the Replying powers of all anon. posters, forcing them to make their points right away and hopefully making these posts better thought-out (like in Ask The Staff).

[Barzalene]

I don't think that posting anonymously spares anyone's feelings. If you have something to say that is so hurtful that you don't want to use your name, perhaps it is better not to say it at all.

[Gilvar]

I tend to avoid/disregard "Anonymous Kank" posts (like Xygax said), but I tend to take more time when reading ones with a name. Or something like "lost newbie", where its apparent they either don't have an account, or don't want to look like an idiot.

Its otherwise unjustified 'anonymous kanks' that bug me.

[Tlaloc]

I believe that any time someone posts anonymously and flames another user or a situation then I really feel the moderators should track down the user and make a note on their game account. That person just proved they are immature and petty.

Actually, we do. I would say its rare if someone doesn't get a note on thier account, and to count yourself lucky if you don't.

Flames happen all the time, sure, but I sure as hell know I'd think twice before posting a full set of questions about nobles or elves or merchants or the rebel subguild if it would lead to everyone knowing exactly who I play.
I believe this thread is a good example of this.

Again - honestly, I feel that the example you posted, while answered well enough on the GDB, could have been answered by the Poster's clan staff far easier, better, and in a more succinct fashion - and nobody would have known there was a PC in-game that can read and write in Cavilish.

I'd like to reiterate (and echo Marko's comments): if posting something will make people 'know who you are', then its very likely you are posting too much IC information and probably shouldn't be posting at all. Exceptions to this rule may be on more private forums, such as clan boards, etc.

I -do- like seeing compliments about each others RP posted, and I'm fine with the examples that Barzalene had posted (which I didn't think of). Don't hesitate, however, to tell the Staff, and compliment the player through Us, though, as there's always a chance we missed out on the interaction.

[Spoon]

Would it be possible to ban anonymous posting in certain forums? So, ones like 'Ask the staff', which is pretty flame proof, could have it for the benefit of new and yet-to-be players, while anoymous posting in the OOC forum is banned, which, face it, is the hive of anonymous flames.

[flurry]

I like that idea, Spoon, since some of the good reasons to post anonymously on other forums don't apply to the OOC forum.

[Zore]

Anonymous posting does not create a flaming problem, because the users of the GDB have repeatedly proven that they are quite capable of doing all the flaming while logged on.

If you are talking trash on a public forum, it is completely unreasonable to assume someone should correct you or express disagreement in private. If you are incorrect or I just disagree with you, it would make no sense to say that in private, because, after all, this is a public forum.

So there's really no problem. Except maybe people replying to their own messages anonymously, but that is an annoyance at most.

And please remember that you are free to put whatever weight you want on anonymous posts. You can even pretend not to see them.

[Spoon]

I think there is a problem when entire threads have to be deleted because they've turned into anonymous slag-fests.

Especially when the staff make repeat posts about it in the 'Staff Announcements' forum.

[Zore (not logged on)]

I think there is a problem when entire threads have to be deleted because they've turned into anonymous slag-fests.

Absolutely. It's called flaming and it's very present on all public internet forums, anonymous or not.

Especially when the staff make repeat posts about it in the 'Staff Announcements' forum.

And as the staff has repeatedly said, they can find out who you are if you post anonymously from the same IP. And if you post from a different IP, flaming anonymously or while logged on under a secondary name doesn't really make a difference, since they still won't know who you are.

I don't want to spoil anyone's fantasy of a forced-registration flame-free board, but it certainly isn't going to happen.

[Anonymous]

Not logging in helps me to still my compulsion to read every post. Or, if I am purposely indulging that compulsion, it prevents me from accidentally clearing the "unread" marker from things I haven't gotten to yet.

Otherwise, while I like the idea of having an established identity on the boards, having people I know outside the game look over my shoulder and read my gdb name while I am posting gives me a strange prickly feeling. Not as bad as having someone who doesn't play watch me on the mud (especially when I'm playing a character with a personality very distinct from my own), but still uncomfortable.

[Krath]

My thoughts are that though the GDB is an extremely helpful place where people can receive
information, I think it is in a newbies best interest to post anonymously for their first few months
before they start posting with their "real name". I say this because many of the GDB people do
flame newbies for asking what they would consider a common sense question.  I think also
newbies should use the helper system a lot more than it is and direct a majority of their
questions there. Unless it is something actually code related, do not post on the GDB.  I think
it would be fitting for the newbie to become familiar with the game and how it works before
posting questions, and it will save them a lot of time, trouble and grief.  A lot of people get a
bad taste in their mouth because a lof of the people here(On the GDB) are dicks to the newbies.
Posting in like the OOC Forum, and stuff like that I think is cool for them, or in their clan GDB,
but the others, just more than not, turns into a flame of the newbie, anonymous or not.

[sarahjc]

Hrm.. I  have posted anonymously quiet a few times, but only to avoid people knowing who I play or have played. And someone said that if you have to hide your name, then perhaps what you are saying is too IC anyway. And I disagree with that.

I mean, the thread might be on the cost of weapons in tuluk right now. Lets say I am playing a Salarri in the north and don't want people to know that I play this highly visible role. But I do have something important that I would like to say on the thread.

Like for example:

"I currently play a Salarri, and I really think that the pricing is fair. What people should understand is that, such as in real life the demand of things reflects the pricing. If something is a rare item, you can sure expect to pay more for it.. even if it is just two bones tied with a piece of leather. I don't see too much in the way of complaints on this IC, so I am not sure that it is that big an issue. "

Or Lets say an old High Profile Noble

"Playing a Noble in the south a while back, I  find that it can be an extremely daunting task to keep my clan members happy and entertained. What I would have liked to have seen more was clan participation in these fields ect.."

Anonymous Kank posts for these types of things, where you want the reader to know of your first hand experience but don't want to give yourself away, I think are fine.

Also there is the "I don't want to look like the Jackass that doesn't know the answer to this" Anon Kank posts.

Example:

"I don't know my PC is getting thirsty all the time, I take a drink of water and then I am thirsty again. Can I get some help?"

"Why did ten people look at me like a record scratched off the juke box when I said that I would wrtite a note and leave it with my friend for someone? Did I do something wrong?"


And there is also the person surfing our sigh and our mud that is just browsing.. A potential user.

Example:

"I was just looking through the docs of your mud and looking over the boards. There seems to be a lot of things pointing to Strict staff involvement and a Lack of player driving plots. Can I get some opinions on this as Character creation seems very lengthy process and I would prefer a Mud that really lets me control the outcome of things."


What makes the option bad is when you get people supporting their own posts with Kank posts, or starting fights with the safety on anonymity on their side. If you don't know that these things are in poor  taste,  then I think the staff has the right to ban your IP.


So, with that I say keep the anon posting ability and have more active Imm scolding on the few bad apples spoiling the bunch.

[Anonymous]

I don't give a toss if someone posts anonymously or not.  Getting upset about shit like that is just petty.

Now, posting anon because you are too chickenshit to make a snide remark under your "official" identity is a different story, but still...

[Pantoufle]

Oh, hah!  Woops.  That was me .

[Cenghiz]

Sorry for the derailment but.....

That _was_ funny Pantoufle..