Black Clothing, something I'd like to discuss

[Nidhogg]

Today while monitoring a few players I noticed that there is an awful lot of black sandcloth clothing. Far more than white. Which struck me as strange and unrealistic. In the city, for fashion, it may or may not matter as much. For the rich it certainly shouldn't matter as much. But many pc's in desert clothing seem to gravitate toward black.

Does your pc wear black? Why? There are far more black items of clothing for hunting and desert travel than white, if only because black sells better. There could of course be more white and less black, but if people only bought the black that wouldn't change anything.

We could code a thirst or stamina penalty to black clothings, but people might not notice, or ignore it. Also, it would be a pain in the behind to apply it to all the black clothing in game, not to mention time consuming.

Ultimately, do you as players see an issue? Is this worth pursuing in the name of realism?

[Delirium]

I once tried to get an all-white outfit with a past character, and I couldn't put one together. Now that struck me as very silly.

Decking yourself out in all black to go dune hopping is kinda up there with wearing bone and chitin for me, but I'm not sure if I see it as a huge issue. I'm willing to ignore it for the sake of gameplay. I guess people just like their characters to look 'cool'.

'Dude, check me out, I'm all decked out in black, I'm definitely badass.'

That said, I would love to see more white items available, and would be willing to help. In fact, I have a suggestion: for every item there is in black, make a clone of it in white. Obviously that could take quite a while, but if it's done slowly and steadily, with the help of player submissions when they see a black item, it could be done over a period of time. I'd like to see white be Zalanthas' black. If that makes sense.

[Whira's Luck]

I don't know, I've had no problem outfitting a pc in all white desert-wear recently. Maybe it's something that should be looked into in the cities?

[Lazloth]

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3755

[Bestatte]

Black clothing is easier to hide in. Especially out at night, or in the shadows of the bushes in the scrub, or whatever. That's rp-wise of course - I don't have any knowledge of black clothing aiding the hide skill.

If you want a mekillot to notice you from 3 leagues away you'd stand out a lot more wearing white than you would black. Unless you're in the middle of broad daylight on a sand dune. Then black would stand out more I guess.

Personally I don't have my characters wearing too much black. It's too stark against their flawless pearly-white skin <grin>

[Ghost]

As a lover of black and having a black wearing PC, I think I should have a few things about this:)

In my newbier times, I had been caring about the color of the outfit the character has.  (Well, not as zealously as pursuing all the white)  But later, as I saw the black more in the shops, and people, I thought these guys have found something that does make the color less important: Sandcloth.

If you check the shop of the desert outfit in Red Storm, you will notice three major colors:  Red, brown and black.  These colors physically, are the colors that absorb the rays with the highest energy in the visible spectrum (though it depends on te tone of the color when Brown is the question).  There is no white.

The color of the Allanakki militia dustcloak?  It is black.

These backed up my assumption.

Also I watched several movies that involved desert since then and I noticed, actually, black is not the rarest color in the desert outfit.  True, white is also common, but people use nearly as much black gear as they do white.  This also backed up my assumption.

So I thought, maybe sandcloth really is a kind of stuff that deflects the sun rays so good that color does not make much difference.  And that is why I went on picking up my favorite color.

Though, I might be wrong on my assumption.  And in that case, I will as well, give a better thought on color.

[Agent_137]

clanned chars are stuck with the uniform.

I ask you, why in the hellpits are most uniforms black or dark?

[ShaLeah]

Black traps heat.
Black leather in a hot environment will make you sweat your balls off not to mention it would cause burns to the touch after prolonged exposure. Ever sit in a car after it's been sitting in the hot summer heat and get the back of your thighs burnt to hell and back?
Black silk in a hot environment will make the silk stick to your skin. Silk traps heat too.

It's unrealistic to wear black all the time in a scalding hot desert planet but it's so prevalent (yes, I use it too) that making it scarce would be a feat and a half, maybe two feats.


People would opt for cool colors - white, beige, pale yellows, pinks, silver and gold, baby blues. They'd layer thing after thing (which we do in game anyway cause we're wear_loc whores) but -most- of those things would be really thin, even sheer.

Desert gear should match the color of the desert, we need more sand-red items. Maybe we can bribe Xygax into wasting a week making a program that will change the word BLACK in any wearable thing to Sand Dune Red.   :shock:

[Dracul]

We're all secretly Goth.

Eh, I'd say I do it with some chars because of the nightime/stealth attitudes. Although I really don't, so *shrug*.

It might just be a strange and unacknowledged quirk of zalanthian culture.

[Marauder Moe]

clanned chars are stuck with the uniform.

I ask you, why in the hellpits are most uniforms black or dark?

Everyone knows black (and other dark colors) are sexy.  Its a recruiting aide.  If you don't believe me, dig up some old House Tenneshi special app availability posts.  

[Angela Christine]

We could code a thirst or stamina penalty to black clothings, but people might not notice, or ignore it. Also, it would be a pain in the behind to apply it to all the black clothing in game, not to mention time consuming.

I think expanding the items that have stamina bonuses and penalties is the way to go.  Twink that I am, I'm more likely to hang onto a cloak that gives me a +10 maximum stamina bonus than one with no bonus or a penalty, at least if I'm playing a character for whom stamina is important.  Ok, it isn't total twinkery since I assume a stamina bonus means that the item is comfortable to move around in, and a penalty means that it is uncomfortable to move around in.

Dark or heavy fabrics could have a 1-10 stamina penalty.  That may seem small, but it adds up if you have a matching outfit.  Likewise very heavy armor items like obsidian breastplates should have a stamina penalty, because even for a half-giant who may have the strenght to avoid an encumberance penalty, it is still going to be hot and uncomfortable.  

Likewise light and light-coloured (not necessarily white) items may give a small bonus.  This could include many heavily-used and tattered items, since they are well-broken in (for comfort) and thinner than a similar "new" item.  New boots are stiff and blistery, old boots look like crap but are often much more comfortable.  

Together that would encourage desert wanderers to dress like Laurence of Arabia, while city folk could still dress like Zorro.  It could also encourage people to wear tattered and raggedy looking clothing if it is appropriate to their character, rather than having everyone in "new-looking" items just because those give the best bonuses.


Also, put some non-dark clothes on rinth NPCs.  Come on, somebody has to be wearing brown or dust coloured cloaks up there, right?  Rinthers often get some of their clothes off the corpses of their neighbours, which leads to everyone  up there wearing the infamous Dark Hooded Cloak.


AC

[sjanimal]

I'm not really partial either way, and can be happy with whatever you decide.  However I had a couple of insights about this that I thought were worth sharing.


My PC wears either black or brown.  They wear those colors to fit in.  If other people wore more diversity in terms of clothing, so would I.  Sometimes my character wears blue or red for a nice social occaision, or when he wants to be noticed.  

Speaking sociallly, it states in the docs that the color green is considered unlucky and associated with mages.  My character would never wear green.  I think if any color would be viewed as "badassed" I think green would.  Black by contrast would be considered rather common and socially acceptable.

And speaking practically, black abas are very practical for desert travel.  Several real life Arabic tribes favor black robes.  Some physicists did a study on this, because they couldn't figure out why the hell anyone (much less experienced desert people) would wear black robes in the desert.  But the answer turns out to be that the robes do INDEED heat faster, and when the hot air near the bottom of the robes rises it creates convection currents that feel like a breeze moving up your body.  So for survival purposes, black robes are fine.

And even if they did have an effect on water loss, the effect would be minimal, in other words negligible.  I don't think coding a 1% difference would affect game play, and I think if you coded much more than 5% or so it would be very unrealistic.

I suppose that's why I'm not much opinionated -- I'll just wear what everyone else wears, and am content to trust other people's role playing decisions.

[Mar]

Hmm, I -myself- have no trouble with black colour. Why? Because I am sure people do wear black colour even in the desert.

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/photography/galleries/womenbehindtheveil/photo2.html

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/africa/gallery_8.html

[Koala]

As a rule of thumb I always check the description of the item that I am going to buy.. In most of the cases I even don't look at the color of it.. If the desc says it is comfortable and if it suits to my characters' desires then I don't hesitate buying it..

Since today I haven't think about the color choice for desert travelling or hunting.. I saw this post, then read some and find this link that Lazloth gave at the other post with similar topic.

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mblackcool.html

As it says that black clothing is a better choice then white if there is wind around.. But if there is no wind then definetely white is better then black but in Zalanthas I think finding a good weather (without wind) is quite difficult.. This is quite striking news for me.. I didn't know that this is the case . Maybe this explains why people in Red Storm choose darker colors for their clothes..

[Anonymous]

Wait, if it is such a big deal for people to constantly wear black to look badass, why is it all right that Salarr abruptly went from orange to black and "steel" grey?  I don't think I've ever seen anything to explain how that change occurred ICly or why.  If imms are adding black, you have to expect some players to get the wrong impression.

[Mr.Camel]

I'm not sure, but I think the old Salarr uniform had an orange-crest, but was assumed to be all orange at first glance because it was the only color in the sdesc.

On topic, I really don't see anything wrong with black. It may not be the best color for heat, but some people can't afford to choose, which is a touch I like.

[Anonymous]

Heh. How long is your nice white desert robe going to stay that way in, say, Allanak? Black doesn't stain!

[Anonymous]

AD: Travel Light, Travel Invisible - The Whiran Way.

Contact the local whiran near YOU.

[ShaLeah]

Wait, if it is such a big deal for people to constantly wear black to look badass, why is it all right that Salarr abruptly went from orange to black and "steel" grey?  I don't think I've ever seen anything to explain how that change occurred ICly or why.  If imms are adding black, you have to expect some players to get the wrong impression.

I'm not sure, but I think the old Salarr uniform had an orange-crest, but was assumed to be all orange at first glance because it was the only color in the sdesc.

On topic, I really don't see anything wrong with black. It may not be the best color for heat, but some people can't afford to choose, which is a touch I like.

I initiated the movement to remove the orange from Salarr when I played a silver mutant former whore turned Salarri merchant to piss off the wife of a Salarri blood.
In the Salarri documents it mentioned that the Salarr crest/symbol was an obsidian shield with a steel sword over it. There was no mention of orage anywhere and I couldn't find a reference as to why it was put there nor whom. It just didn't make sense for a House whose representation to the known world was an obsidian shield and a steel sword to have orange for no reason... not to mention it was ugly as hell.  

It's my fault, mea culpa, and when I see orange banded eq I feel like typoing it.  :twisted:

[ShaLeah]

Heh. How long is your nice white desert robe going to stay that way in, say, Allanak? Black doesn't stain!

That's a good point.  Not only is black slimming but it hides sweat stains and dirt well... except... it's red colored dirt!

[ShaLeah]

Moved to the new derailment thread!

We now return you to our regularly scheduled topic...

[Angela Christine]

Speaking sociallly, it states in the docs that the color green is considered unlucky and associated with mages.  My character would never wear green.  I think if any color would be viewed as "badassed" I think green would.  Black by contrast would be considered rather common and socially acceptable.

Light green, not all green.  Jade green is a-ok, so is dark green.

And speaking practically, black abas are very practical for desert travel.  Several real life Arabic tribes favor black robes.  Some physicists did a study on this, because they couldn't figure out why the hell anyone (much less experienced desert people) would wear black robes in the desert.  But the answer turns out to be that the robes do INDEED heat faster, and when the hot air near the bottom of the robes rises it creates convection currents that feel like a breeze moving up your body.  So for survival purposes, black robes are fine.  

That may work for loose black abas, but it doesn't explain black leather pants.  


As for sneakiness, I think black is over-rated.  Mottled colours blend into shadows better than a man-shaped black blob.  I had two cats, brothers, one was all black and the other was a brown striped tabby.  The black one was pretty easy to find day or night, the mottled brown tabby was a feckin' ghost -- he could disappear in shadows, in shrubbery, in tall grass, lying down in the sand, in general he was very hard to spot when he didn't want to be seen (so I got him a brightly coloured collar with a bell on it, because I'm mean).


Black is nice when you are trying to co-ordinate an outfit though, because black goes with everything.  

Angela Christine

[Anonymous]

Black is nice when you are trying to co-ordinate an outfit though, because black goes with everything.

If you can beat the snot out of anyone, you can wear anything you want and no one will question. I remember I used to wear ritual feathers and humans made fun of me - until I beat the shit out of one of them - he stopped making fun of me. Of course, this is RL, I don't know how it works in-game.

[Cenghiz]

Funny... real funny... Every badass feeling char of mine preferred white, thinking "I'm powerful enough to survive in the desert being clearly visible and I'm rich enough to clean even quick-staining white clothes."

[sjanimal]

Good points, Angela Christine, I hadn't thought of that.

Although I will say that for my part, I seldom wear more than one or two light pieces of armor.  I view people who walk around in full armor all the time as twinks, noobs, unstylish, mind-numbingly paranoid or perhaps on their way to go kill somebody.  In fact, when my PC sees someone wearing too much armor, that's usually a signal to him that one way or another, it's a person to be avoided.