idea's

[killa]

i think a new town/outpost should be made. it would be a nice thing to have an outpost far west of allank sorta like a hunting post or same thing for tuluk in the grey forest as a forestry camp or outpost to make sure halflings dont get close to city.
i say the more towns and small places like these the more intresting it would also have outpost give explorers a place to go from to see even farther places in the world


btw when the game due for a seige? or has that happen lately

[Marauder Moe]

No more new towns.  The playerbase is spread out enough as it is.

[John]

I say no because people rarely go to Red Storm East or Cenyr. If you want to experience life in a remote village go to one of those places.

Alternatively you could go to one of the Allanaki farms that are lying around. Those are fairly deserted of PCs.

[Cuusardo]

First of all, the word you are looking for is ideas- plural, not possessive.

Second, the game has a gigantic wealth of places to go.  You just have to find them.  Ask around in game, talk to people.  Chances are, there are plenty of people around you who know about various places to go.

btw when the game due for a seige? or has that happen lately

Thirdly, that is IC information, which should be found out in the game.

[killa]

i was thinking more along the lines of a hunting post where hunters can go get scrab and stuff and chill in a save spot for the night before going to nak or tuluk to sell the hides and shells off

[Cenghiz]

There are about 4 -there may be more- quitsafe villages around Allanak.. More would just be a waste of time.
A forester's camp near Tuluk? You must be kidding.. If we were sheep, we wouldn't decide to camp too close to those wolves' den. Halflings eat us! Forming a camp there would be like handing them a basket of fruits.

[John]

i was thinking more along the lines of a hunting post where hunters can go get scrab and stuff and chill in a save spot for the night before going to nak or tuluk to sell the hides an sdhells off

Ahh well in that case I dislike the idea more. If I go out hunting I either
1> Know where safe places are
2> Stay close to civilization
3> Go with someone I can trust who knows the wilderness well.

By having hunting post(s) you take away the wilderness.

[Cuusardo]

i was thinking more along the lines of a hunting post where hunters can go get scrab and stuff and chill in a save spot for the night before going to nak or tuluk to sell the hides and shells off

There are TONS of places IG to camp out for a night.  You just need to find them.

[Cavus]

I am agree with Killa. If a scravenger or a hunter wants to explore tablelands, or any other distant places from cities and outposts, he has to rest at very dangerous medium, and if he continues after a short rest, he will most probably run out of supply such as water or food.
Yes, game world is gigantic, but there is not enough support to players for exploring it with enough easiness. I am not telling to put lots of villages all over Zalanthas. I am telling to put them rarely, but enough. For example, there can be a safe village or an outpost in the middle of tablelands. This helps the player, but does not hurt the mystery of unexplored lands of Zalanthas. Over 20.000 rooms, but no one is available to go most of the rooms with even teams of five (I exclude magickers).

[moab]

I have never had a chracter run out of food or water that was expecting to travel the wastes.  This is as any class.

If you wander in the desert, currently, and don't have enough food or water to last you then you went unprepared and your IC character doesn't know how to to get along - and shouldn't be out there.  Next time hire someone who does.

If you are close to running out of food and water - turn around.  That's why large parts of the wolrd remained unexplored for a very long time in RL and in ZL.  :-)

[Cavus]

But, civilizations built cities/outposts at newly explored areas to go further for unexplored areas in RL. If we compare ZL with RL, we also need to build some outposts at those places with help of big Houses because desire of knowledge in Zalanthas is as great as in RL. In other words, building outposts make sense, doesn't it?

[Cenghiz]

No it doesn't....
Why should they?... They need to import... sand?? There's nothing of interest except the hides, bones, chitin and maybe some precious stones. And rangers already do go there and bring back a good amount every day. So building a base away from civilizations for what? To keep a storage for things that would already be taken into the gates in huge masses every day, paying for the buildings, guards etc., being attacked by gith/halflings/reenegade magickers/agreessive tribals every day?

[Cavus]

Iron my friend iron...
And some precious things that most of us don't know

[Cenghiz]

Whenever a noble or a headmaster of a merchant house gets interested in exploring, he already deals with that IC, hires a group of rangers/gemmers/whatever to go and explore. I witnessed that with my characters. They don't decide to spend a very great amount of coins just to check if there's fine quality jade or brass there. That far away from civilization a settlement would be nothing but waste of money.
Give 1000 'sids to a rukkian and tell him to check if there's something of interest in region A. Tell him that you would be willing to pay more for anything of interest he finds. Also tell him via the way or in a remote place that you would be willing to actually _buy_ the iron instead of killing him with a few loyal militia and acquire the iron anyway.
For sure you should understand, still the Rukkian would disappear if he found any iron. It's probably impossible to trust when the topic is 'metal'.
But please, I don't know the real price, but it would be logical to spend at least 100000 coins or so for a crude little settlement. Of course the settlement would have to be close to a local water source. The tribals or halflings/gith/mantis wouldn't be willing to share the water, so there would probably be small scale battles. Raiders would arise to take the advantage of easy prey heading to the real remote settlement. You would probably piss off a nilazian or even a defiler wandering there with all those newbie hunters/scavengers cruising around.
Then at last, a scavenger from your settlement would find a silver cup. What would he do? Bring it to you? Bah. He would simply disappear.

I find the idea of new settlements in remote places totally useless and irrational.

[Cavus]

All those problems makes rp exciting, and gives  a chance to player for solving them IG. Defiler? Hunt him. Tribal fight? Get them down. Water can be found with magick also:-). Raiders? Don't care because there will me beasts more than raiders. If amount of raiders increase, amount of beasts decreases ( :idea:  got it? ). Lots of sid? Taxe the damn commoners in your city. There are trhousands of them.

My point is: problem = good RP = good Plot

[Gilvar]

i was thinking more along the lines of a hunting post where hunters can go get scrab and stuff and chill in a save spot for the night before going to nak or tuluk to sell the hides and shells off

Build your own.

[Cenghiz]

You don't get the point, Cavus... Also it would be fun to build an elemental conflux in the middle of the desert by a magicker organization. It would be fun to mess with the billion problems it causes.. But... What is the use?
For a 100000-coins-worth investment you should be waiting for a little profit, eh? No use.... You can handle the same problem with only 1000 'sids... Then why should a noble house or a merchant house waste 99000 coins more?

[Cavus]

In RL, somethings happen without expectation of profit. Science is one of them in most cases (sure some fields are for profit).  If you spend money on something unprofitable today, it may open doors of great new oppotunities. NASA is spending lots of money. For what? They don't have any profit, so with your explanation USA should shut it down. But what about scientific progress made by the help of NSA and their researchs?
Anyway, we are going off the point.  This is my way of thinking, and it is yours. I hope to see an outpost or somewhere that classes other than rangers can quit or safely rest and get food or water.

[Bestatte]

There already ARE outposts and other places where non-rangers can quit out of the game. Their exact locations are IC, but some of them are known at least by name:

Red Storm
Luir's Outpost
Blackwing Outpost
Cenyr

There are others too but some don't have known names, and others are places you need to find (or not) by exploring within the game itself.

[Cenghiz]

Code Select Expand

In RL, somethings happen without expectation of profit.

In Zalanthas, they simply don't.. There are no charities. Reading and writing is forbidden. People kill each other without reason and some folks are enslaved. Houses race each other for more profit and political power. No type of research is done by anyone except defilers and some lucky gemmers.
And even NASA is for long term profit and political power. Sometimes even short-term political power NASA means. (See: Space race in between Soviets and Americans in the cold war period.)
My RL ideals denote that even in RL, everything is for more power, control and profit. Even charities which look like purely innocent are not that innocent. But in Zalanthas, governments don't require to offer social services to the folk. All they need is supressing any small riots that may occur and providing anything more secure than the desert with its raiders, defilers, gith and the raptors.. And we may safely assume that anything is better than the deserts.
So let's think again.... A noble house would build a remote settlement for hunters and scavengers. For what? Because Noble Fancypants doesn't want his folk's scavengers feel alone at nights? Oh get outta here. There are thousands of very experienced hunters which supply cities with anything they need without any problem. So what will be the aim of the settlements? Researching of the distant lands? No... An experienced ranger may be handed 1% of the money required for a settlement to explore even the far ends of the world.
So there's no profit, no gain of power, there are easier ways to explore lands.. I don't want noob warriors wandering in places where I can barely come with my 15-days-old ranger/magicker with the help of unreasonable settlements scattered around the whole known world. Case's closed for me.

[Agent_137]

i was thinking more along the lines of a hunting post where hunters can go get scrab and stuff and chill in a save spot for the night before going to nak or tuluk to sell the hides and shells off

Build your own.

[Rhyden]

I like this idea, but this is sort of IC. If you and more importantly your character wants to build an outpost, hunting cabin/hut or whatever, do it yourself, I'm sure an imm will be more than happy to assist you!

[Delirium]

I like this idea, but this is sort of IC. If you and more importantly your character wants to build an outpost, hunting cabin/hut or whatever, do it yourself, I'm sure an imm will be more than happy to assist you!

IF you go through the proper RP, the proper IC channels, and aren't discouraged by having to deal with realistic consequences and problems that might crop up.

[John]

If a scravenger or a hunter wants to explore tablelands, or any other distant places from cities and outposts, he has to rest at very dangerous medium, and if he continues after a short rest, he will most probably run out of supply such as water or food.

Real-life anecdote to show that this is realistic:

In Australian history explorers would travel across Australia to find new places. Australia has a big whooping desert in the middle of it that was fairly unexplored by white-man (Aboriginals obviously had explored it). One pair of explorers known as Burke and Willes decided to travel across it to find out what's on the other side. They were poorly funded, didn't prepare enough and didn't know the way too well, they were travelling the wildlands where civilization didn't exist. They failed, miserably. They're quite famous for their dismal failure.

Could they have survived? Sure. Other explorers eventually did. They could have had better equipment, more supplies. They also could have had better Aboriginal guides. But they didn't have any of those so they failed. Same goes with zalanthas. If you want to explore an area and not die, hire a guide that knows the area well and have enough supplies.

Yes, game world is gigantic, but there is not enough support to players for exploring it with enough easiness.

This is most definitely an in-character hardship. There are PLENTY of places to stop and rest, you just need to know where they are.

Over 20.000 rooms, but no one is available to go most of the rooms with even teams of five (I exclude magickers).

Sure fire way to try to explore an area - create a dwarf and have it be his focus. You'll eventually be able to explore any area you like, it'll just be -very- difficult. But if it was easy, where would the fun in that be?

But, civilizations built cities/outposts at newly explored areas to go further for unexplored areas in RL.

I guess this is the difference between city-states and countries. A country encompasses more then 1 city. A city-state doesn't. And who will the outposts belong to? Perhaps a city-state, in which case you could say they have an "empire." Some players (at least a year ago) call Allanak "The Allanaki Empire." This probably is a result of when Allanak was an empire and had in it's domain:
* Allanak
* Allanak's villages
* Obsidian Mines
* Luir's Outpost
* Tuluk
* Xytrix-Za Valley

However (in some senses) Allanak's empire has fallen. If Allanak can't hold an empire what hope does anyone else have

There are actually some "outposts" owned by various people. However for security they're either off-limits to people or they're very very strict in their laws. A lot of tribes are also nomadic so they can be safe. Those that are open to everyone have been destroyed or invaded at some point in their history. I know if I were a tribe I'd be more inlcined to remain nomadic and/or not open to people.

Places with no outposts are also owned by various people. Vun Driath and Gol Krathu were and it took people who would one day become sorcerer-kings to set up a place there. Luir's Outpost was once home to a minion of the Dragon. Red Storm and the Desert Outpost are the only places that nearly anyone can go to that were set up by non-sorcerers. And Red Storm only survives because it gets it's grain supply from Red Storm East which (along with Cenyr) only survive through obscurity. History has taught us that creating an outpost is by no means an easy task. And it's quite possible the Sandlord is a sorcerer of some kind.

Whose going to tell the elves who own the land across the Salt Flats that they have to leave because House Kadius wants to set up an outpost?

[Anonymous]

i was thinking more along the lines of a hunting post where hunters can go get scrab and stuff and chill in a save spot for the night before going to nak or tuluk to sell the hides and shells off

Build your own.

already planning that

[SRB]

i was thinking more along the lines of a hunting post where hunters can go get scrab and stuff and chill in a save spot for the night before going to nak or tuluk to sell the hides and shells off

Build your own.

already planning that

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11145

Good luck. =/

[Agent_137]

I don't see any reason why you can't now with the new policy changes. If you're not making a clan that expects immortal support, you're fine.

[SRB]

I don't see any reason why you can't now with the new policy changes. If you're not making a clan that expects immortal support, you're fine.

The policy changes have affected more than just creating new clans. For those that -are- coded and awaiting implementation of their camp, this poses a problem.

At least, it's a problem as I see it.

[Tamarin]

If you can't have a custom item, there is no way in hell they are giving you a cabin, let alone an outpost.

[Angela Christine]

Master craftsmen can still submit one custom item per month, so all you need to do is find a merchant who has mastered wagon making.  What is a building but a wagon without wheels?    

Each building and each major feature (like a wall or fence around the outpost) would probably count as a seperate custom item.  If so, then a walled compound with a stable and a cabin would take three RL months to finish (assuming it wasn't attacked and destroyed durring the construction process) that is 2 IC years.  That seems like a reasonable amount of time to me.  Heck, if you could hire 3 master Merchants you might even finish a basic walled outpost with a cabin and stable in a single OOC month!  Of course finding a maxxed out Merchant would be challenging, and finding and hiring 3 would be nearly impossible and prohibitively expensive, but you can dream.  :twisted:


Angela Christine

[aruna]

I think perhaps rather than focusing on ways around the new policy changes, as a playerbase we should be taking a look at the reasons WHY these new policy changes are in place.

I've been away from the game for close to 10 months, and one thing I noticed around February before I left is the increasing focus on Stuff, and I personally am glad to see that something is being done about it. Yeah, it's too bad that it's going to take the Staff revoking privileges, but dammit, it's for our own good!

This thread is a prime example of what the Staff is trying to counter, at least from my perspective. The playerbase is getting lazy, and instead of banding together as players to make things happen, we're letting the world happen to us. If we continue leaning too heavily on the code and staff assistance (from implementing special items to starting plotlines), we're going to continue to be bored. Yes, there are those of you that do take matters into your own hands, and you are the ones that make Armageddon what it is - but I'm talking about the playerbase as a whole.  There needs to be a shift in focus from "here, let me do it for you", to "do it yourself", because the only way to do it yourself is through roleplay.

Agent_137 is right: there isn't any reason why you can't still have that hunting post.  True, the save spot might be a bit tricky, but does that really matter?  Meet other hunter characters in game that are interested, band together, and make it happen.  But the point here is, the focus should be on the hunt, rather than the appeal and convenience of your surroundings and how extravagant your blade is.

I don't have a character as of yet, but when I do, I'll be coming back for the roleplay, and not for the aesthetics. I'll see you all in Zalanthas...

[Agent_137]

Fuckin' A, Aruna,

==

It said no new clans, no custom items besides the 1 per month for masters.

It did not say that if you put in all this IC effort into zalanthas you won't get shit. Now, you're not entitled to anything, but they aren't saying you -can't- have it either.

Build up your idea IG, have some support, then email some staffers and see if they're interested in working with you on it. They may or may not be. I bet if you tried to build a hunting outpost, did some nice preliminary work on it, and then email gilvar and politely reminded him of his post, he might be inclined to help. Even if he doesn't, and -no- other staffer does, you can still default to AC's route.

A lot of you are taking the changes too far. To me, it seems, they are there to stop this trend of entitlement, help the staff refocus on their particular areas of responsiblity (clans and projects), and stop the flow of new custom pretty swords and panties.

[killa]

u guys are getting 2 serious for this thread. i just wondered if we can get more places to go to so we can explore the world. Its sorta a wast of rooms if we cant go everwhere i been all over what i can alone and in groups i seen all i can with in the safty of the main posts and city i wish to see more but thats impossible to do with out magick. yes it should be very hard to see the rest of the world but not impossibl.

[Larrath]

Nothing is impossible, but it's a dangerous world and one must always be prepared.
Also, don't forget that hiring magickers to help you, while a devious and horrifyingly scary (and possibly stupid ) act, is still possible.  Luck out and maybe they'll lend you and your friends some of their power.

Some places will also require some skill-based prowess.  If there's a secret cave with an iron crown inside, there will probably be something guarding it.  Just remember the three P's - Patience, Planning and, uhh, Pickles.

[Pantoufle]

u guys are getting 2 serious for this thread. i just wondered if we can get more places to go to so we can explore the world. Its sorta a wast of rooms if we cant go everwhere i been all over what i can alone and in groups i seen all i can with in the safty of the main posts and city i wish to see more but thats impossible to do with out magick. yes it should be very hard to see the rest of the world but not impossibl.

I agree with killa.

Does anyone remember Mal Krian?  If memory serves, unless you were a citizen you could not even quit out in that town (not even in a tavern).  Thus, it didn't detract from the playerbase, yet it made a nifty place to visit for the "travelling adventurer".

Though some people argue that there are already plenty of unused villages (Cenyr and Red Storm East) maybe it's time for one or two of those to get nuked, allowing a couple newer ones to appear.

Nothing is impossible, but it's a dangerous world and one must always be prepared.
Also, don't forget that hiring magickers to help you, while a devious and horrifyingly scary (and possibly stupid ) act, is still possible. Luck out and maybe they'll lend you and your friends some of their power

Larrath!  Shame on you!  What would the Roleplay Fascists think!?  Open mindedness towards magick is not acceptable under any circumstances.  None whatsoever.  I mean that's why we have magick in this game, so that nobody can use it!  :roll:   (That was me being sarcastic towards all the anti-magick fanatics, by the way).

[Larrath]

Nothing is impossible, but it's a dangerous world and one must always be prepared.
Also, don't forget that hiring magickers to help you, while a devious and horrifyingly scary (and possibly stupid ) act, is still possible. Luck out and maybe they'll lend you and your friends some of their power

Larrath!  Shame on you!  What would the Roleplay Fascists think!?  Open mindedness towards magick is not acceptable under any circumstances.  None whatsoever.  I mean that's why we have magick in this game, so that nobody can use it!  :roll:   (That was me being sarcastic towards all the anti-magick fanatics, by the way).

I'm at least a partial member of the Roleplay Fascistic Group (FGP), and I think that I speak for every single member when I say that it is absolutely alright for a PC to hire a magicker if it is IC for them to do so and as long as they understand why everyone should, and will, stay away from them as a result.  Nobody wants this to become the rule, either, but at least a moderately rare exception.

Honestly, I never mind it when a PC trusts an elf, loves halfbreeds, hugs magickers and helps mindbenders hide themselves.   I mind it when these people fail to understand the social implication of these things.


When people look funny at my PCs for running away when they see a magicker, or start ignoring them socially because they aren't nice to half-elves, that's when I really draw the line.

[Agent_137]

u guys are getting 2 serious for this thread. i just wondered if we can get more places to go to so we can explore the world. Its sorta a wast of rooms if we cant go everwhere i been all over what i can alone and in groups i seen all i can with in the safty of the main posts and city i wish to see more but thats impossible to do with out magick. yes it should be very hard to see the rest of the world but not impossibl.

Ah, but sir, you are missing the underlying structure of our thoughts.

You see, the world is not there for you, the player, to explore. The world is there as a stage to play your character in. Don't sweat the exploring, don't sweat running about and seeing things. The fun in this game is roleplaying your character, not watching your skills increase and seeing neat lines of text that no one else has seen.

Plus, if it's easy to explore, it becomes far less impressive when you do it.