Bards: a comeback

[My 2 sids]

I think a lot of people like the idea of bards, but it's hard because they totally rely on role-playing and PCs for money (assuming that being a bard isn't their "cover" for something else).  I'd like to offer maybe a few coded suggestions in hopes that maybe if something like this could be implemented the bard class would take off.  The way I see it, if we make performing easier, living wages achievable, and provide bards with a real focus and need in the game, the bard will increase in power and playability.

Alias -  Alias is already a great feature, but if we were to expand it a bit I think bards could be helped a lot.  Eventually, it would mean that the player could format everything before hand and then simply Alias whatever the bard is doing.  It would just be nice if bards could get longer and more aliases so they could put together a whole song or maybe a joke or trick?  

Getting paid – I think it'd be great if there was a way bards could make a living without only living off of PC money.  One idea I thought of was setting up a new command (Play command or something) where the bard PC could sit and play (probably in various rooms like taverns or Poet's circle or places) and the code would pay the PC coins.  I would assume something like the hunt command where it's set up to pay out X amount could be done where as the skill of the bard (from practice) gets better, more npcs and vnpcs would pay out more money.  Before all the hollering starts, I'll just say this could no more be abused than any sparing dummy command.  

News – bards, esp storytellers, are used to spread information, traditions, etc.  So why not use the code to reflect this?  Let's say we give the bards NEWS command?  They hit the command and are provided with a few IC things:  Where X animals have been spotted (hunters need to know where to find the animals), the same or like information the bartenders give out, descriptions of any important new people (templars, nobles, family merchants, etc) who might be seen about.  This would be information that a bard would probably find out anyway because that's what bards do, they hear stories and pass them along.

[Delirium]

Alias - Notepad. Please remember to give people enough time to read what you've pasted out. Also remember to vary your performances somewhat each time to react to the audience and location at that particular moment. Having a sudden scroll of three pages of a song with no variation in the emotes - you'd probably find yourself getting unpopular pretty damn quick.

Getting paid - Sorry, I would -much- rather have that be RPd out. Perform for the crowd even if there's no PCs if you got a gig there - my last bard got paid by an NPC a couple times. Otherwise you can just assume the NPCs brushed right past you and didn't tip you, the stingy bastards.

News - I say no. RP that out. Flex those contacts that a successful bard develops and maintains.

[Larrath]

Alias - Sure, but isn't it more convenient to just save everything in a plain-text format and copy it all from there?

Getting paid - NO.  Sparring dummies and not everywhere and they're pretty much monitored and most people know (or should know) not to abuse them.  Giving bards an unending source of income that has no risk whatsoever is very bad.  If bards want to make money, they can play for PCs...and if they don't get enough money from it, they can make it an IC issue and see what they can do to remedy this situation.

News - You're a bard?  Be sociable and talk to people.  Ask those hunters what they've been seeing and sell that.  Talk to those aides and sell that information.

New templars/nobles/merchants are not people who suddenly surfaced on Zalanthas; they've been there all along, and there's no reason why the 26 year old Lord Fancypants should immediately shift from complete PC obscurity to becoming the hottest word around.  The same goes for any other character, really.

[Gilvar]

I actually like the getting paid thing. BUT and this is a big and complicated but, it would be the eventual end of a baric-overhaul that I think no one has the time or inclination to purse.

it would begin with some for of determination of skill in playing an instrument, and numerous things of this nature. And then when you set up and play a song you would have a CHANCE of being tipped, but not nescessarily always succeed. This is not much different then PCs selling to NPCs. You are selling a service (your musical ability) to an NPC, in certain coded places. Just like you sell items to an NPC in certain coded places.

Anyways, your ABILITY at playing would be measured against some sort of tavern-population variable (Which would also have to be added) and some math would be done and you'd have a chance of succeeding.

Another neat feature would be maybe the crowd recognizing bards and asking them to play a song. This would require more coding, and again be part of an unlikely bardic overhaul.

Good stuff though.

[My 2 sids]

Thank you Gilvar for at least trying to make a reasonable response.

And then when you set up and play a song you would have a CHANCE of being tipped, but not necessarily always succeed. This is not much different then PCs selling to NPCs. You are selling a service (your musical ability) to an NPC, in certain coded places. Just like you sell items to an NPC in certain coded places.

This is exactly what I'm proposing with the money.  Not a way for bards to get rich, but a way for players to independently support their PC just like all other player can when they choose PCs with coded abilities.

Getting paid - Sorry, I would -much- rather have that be RPd out. Perform for the crowd even if there's no PCs if you got a gig there - my last bard got paid by an NPC a couple times. Otherwise you can just assume the NPCs brushed right past you and didn't tip you, the stingy bastards.

News - I say no. RP that out. Flex those contacts that a successful bard develops and maintains.

News - You're a bard? Be sociable and talk to people. Ask those hunters what they've been seeing and sell that. Talk to those aides and sell that information.

You'd both have points if I was asking for special treatment, but I don't know as though I am.  Clanned PCs who work for houses get paid for doing virtual work and independent merchants, hunters, and thieves can count on, if nothing else, getting a little money from NPCs.  But bards and the like, those who choose to truly pick a PC based on role-playing and not coded classes, don't get an opportunity to be supported by virtual means.

Getting paid - NO. Sparring dummies and not everywhere and they're pretty much monitored and most people know (or should know) not to abuse them. Giving bards an unending source of income that has no risk whatsoever is very bad. ...
New templars/nobles/merchants are not people who suddenly surfaced on Zalanthas; they've been there all along, and there's no reason why the 26 year old Lord Fancypants should immediately shift from complete PC obscurity to becoming the hottest word around. The same goes for any other character, really.

You make it sound as though only clanned PCs can be trusted.  At the moment we have three on staff devoted to non-clanned PCs, does this mean they aren't there to support the PCs but to monitor the players because they can't be trusted to role-play realistically?  

I realize what a huge thing it is to remap the bard class.  What I'm trying to show is not only why it's needed (other threads are already discussing this) but how we could start.

[Agent_137]

i kinda like the pay idea, but the alias idea is weak, notepad or use a client.

I don't like the news idea at all. Do it IC.

I was a bard for years and years in another mud. They have the same problems.

If I was a bard, and I was alone in a bar, PC-wise, I'd wish all politely and start a performance, and hope a generous Imm has time to watch.

[JollyGreenGiant]

While there are a multitude of ways to succeed as a bard (or performer of any kind), two stick out as being successful both historically and in game.  The first is to slog it out, live through the hard days, build contacts, build a following, grow in fame, pick up contracts here and there, and one day you'll find yourself playing that big gig in <insert venue of your choice here>.  The second is to find a rich patron and bootstrap yourself into wealth and society that way.

I'd be ok with a trickle of income coming in from NPCs, but you're not just competing against the general poverty of the populace; you're also competing against however many NPC and vNPC bards are out there who are also trying to scrape together a living.

[Agent_137]

speaking of bards, this is an interesting story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3552370.stm

[Angela Christine]

I do not think the bard subclass needs to be pumped up.


However, some of these ideas might be worthwhile to pursue in the creation of a Bard main guild.  Clasically bard guilds include a slight affinity for magick, but that is unnecessary.  

Like rangers, bards a multi-talented guild with elements of other guilds, mainly the rogue and merchant guilds, with just a touch of the explorer.

* A bard main guild could get, or have as an early branch, the instrument making skill.  A cash-cow skill that soon solves any financial problems the PC has.

* Most bards travel, so a bard should have a riding cap just a little lower than a ranger.  They would also have (or branch) driving, though not as well as a merchant.  This sets up the possibility for an experienced bard to lead his own travelling show.  

* They have a little rogue in 'em, so they can develop sneaking, hiding, and listening to varying degrees.  Palm and plant are also handy in showmanship.

* They fight about as well as thief, but being showy types they may also develop minor skill with showy manuvers kick, sap and/or backstab.  They have the ability to  develop the charge skill, but not as quickly as a bard and with a lower cap.  Very experienced bards might even learn to use their legs to guide a mount, leaving both hands free to juggle daggers while they ride.

* Bards can be annoying, so they get a high cap on the flee skill.  :twisted:  They may also learn a little about climbing, so as to escape a crowd flinging rotten fruit.

* Communication is their bread and butter, so they get high caps on contact and barrier.

* Glib of tongue they have a little skill with barter and value, but with a fairly low cap.


Stuff like that.


AC

[Cuusardo]

Bards in Tuluk are clanned if they are part of the Circle, but they do not receive all of the perks that being part of, say, a merchant house clan.  They do not get paid by the Circle, nor do they get free food, water, or shelter.  While it is true that in order to play a successful bard you must work pretty hard as a PC, most of them will find a regular salary by getting a patron.  That makes things worlds easier, as anyone who has played a bard, or even interacted with a bard has seen.  What else is gotten through patronage varies based upon the agreement between the bard and the patron.

As far as for news, that can easily be done by way of PC to PC interaction.  When you think about it, bards are like the mass media.  Many bards are very social, and will network and get to know lots of people.  In that manner, gossip and messages can be spread or passed along through them.  Not to mention the fact that they can be commissioned to do creative advertisements!

[wizturbo]

I'd prefer the success of the bard by completely based on the player.  Good bard players can make tons of sid, very easily, and do everything these coded things might accomplish easily.  It shouldn't be spoonfed to them.

I agree with AC's idea about instrument crafting, being a potential cash generator for bards.  But I think the bard subclass is fairly strong.

The concept of a bard primary guild is intriguing, but I think the burglar, pickpocket or assassin guilds really fit just fine in those regards.  Burglar/thief or burglar/thug seems to give many of the things AC mentioned in her suggestion.

[Rindan]

I personally can't stand the idea of being able to play for NPCs and getting money.  If a staff member wants to animate the NPC and throw you a few 'sid, great.  Otherwise, I find that concept about as interesting as giving con men and elves a 'con' skill to use on NPCs that makes the NPCs give them money, or a bribe skill to make NPCs drop their guard.

Playing a bard is not hard.  If you ever want to be rich and popular, start your own bard and put about half of an ounce of effort into it.  An independent bard can pull in more then most independents can in a life time (due in no small part to having long lives).  Get a patron, and believe me, if you have even a little skill you will get a patron, you will rake in even more.  Take a little risk and travel and you can consider yourself a made man.  Starving as a bard takes both talent and skill.  I am not saying that such a skill can't be made such that it can't be abused.  I am saying that such a skill is simply not needed and throwing another layer of code into the game in this instance will do nothing to improve RP.

[wizturbo]

I personally can't stand the idea of being able to play for NPCs and getting money.  If a staff member wants to animate the NPC and throw you a few 'sid, great.  Otherwise, I find that concept about as interesting as giving con men and elves a 'con' skill to use on NPCs that makes the NPCs give them money, or a bribe skill to make NPCs drop their guard.

Playing a bard is not hard.  If you ever want to be rich and popular, start your own bard and put about half of an ounce of effort into it.  An independent bard can pull in more then most independents can in a life time (due in no small part to having long lives).  Get a patron, and believe me, if you have even a little skill you will get a patron, you will rake in even more.  Take a little risk and travel and you can consider yourself a made man.  Starving as a bard takes both talent and skill.  I am not saying that such a skill can't be made such that it can't be abused.  I am saying that such a skill is simply not needed and throwing another layer of code into the game in this instance will do nothing to improve RP.

Amen.  I agree completely.