New "cloaking" skill

[My 2 sids]

I know it's been brought up before, but I'd like to talk about hoods for a moment.  I'm sorry to say, I don't trust enough players to role-play hooded figures realistically.  Some people always manage to see eyes or something.  Anyhow, I liked the idea of someone brought up that a hood would produce a totally new main description.  What I'd like to suggest is an actual skill that would do this.  The cloak skill would, if used, would produce a "race/height/age/weight" ( > Look figure  >You judge this eleven-like person to be about seven cords high and eight-ten stones in weight.  This figure appears young for his age.) echo to anyone who looks at the character.  This echo would be timed like the listen skill.

It would only be made available as a branch to the hide skill.  This is to reflect the idea that the character has put in the time to learn exactly how to wrap themselves up not to be seen at all.  It also means that not everyone can do it.

It would be a timed affect.  That means the character has to actually prepare to conceal themselves like this.  It also means they may or may not be able to do this and only for so long before –someone- sees them.

Having this as a skill would help with role-play.  Those who attack or sneak around may get caught or seen, but people still wouldn't be able to identify them.

[X-D]

It would only be made available as a branch to the hide skill. This is to reflect the idea that the character has put in the time to learn exactly how to wrap themselves up not to be seen at all. It also means that not everyone can do it.

So, My char has a facewrap, described as several cords of fabric wrapped around his head covering his face, he also has a headwrap described the same way except covering the head (this takes care of possible escaping hair) He then puts on his large heavy hooded duster, described as having a deep hood and covering everything to the ankles keeping out wind and sand, and he can't "hood" himself because he does not have the hide skill?
And how does hide skill, a skill that is remaining un-noticed help you in any way to learn to cover yourself in cloth?

In short, I'm very much against it being a branched skill that only certain classes get...actually, only 2 of the non-karma classes would not get it if it branched from hide. But anyway, that still leaves the most common raiding class without the ability, silly.

No, I'm much more in favor of it being possible (And common) Through multiple item use, which has been explained in detail on other threads.

[Lazloth]

what he said.

[My 2 sids]

[quote"x-D"]No, I'm much more in favor of it being possible (And common) Through multiple item use, which has been explained in detail on other threads.[/quote]

You arn't really making yourself clear X-D.  Are you saying the coded skill is not a good idea (things should stay the way they are now) or you just don't agree with the skill being attached to hide or only a few guilds?

[X-D]

I was clear, I just did not explain on this thread since I have done so on many other threads. But, To make things clear here.

I'm against ANY "skill" that is for disguise/mask/hood that will be held only by some classes. I find it unrealistic in the extreme that only certain people should have the "skill" To cover themselves in cloth. Also, limiting to class means that the people who -would- use the skill the most would not even get it. Also, If I'm playing a warrior and such a skill exists and somebody tries to raid/mug him and the skill is active, OOCly I know he is not a warrior and I can probly beat the snot out of him and take his shit instead.

I AM in favor of mask/disguise/hood covering Mdesc being VERY common and simply taking multiple items to achieve. I think this would add much to the game and I see NO drawback at all to every single char in the game being -able- to walk around in such a manner. The RP that would be added runs in many directions, from raiders being able to let people live to nobles slumming in relative safety to Templars making laws about being hooded in such fashion while in a public tavern or in thier presence. Many many many things. I think it would add tension and mystery to the game, something people bitch about there not being enough of anyway.


Is that clear enough for you?

Even clearer.

NO to a skill.

Yes to items.

(EDIT)

Oh, and I most certainly do not think things should stay the way they are now.

[My 2 sids]

How would "items" work?  How would they code-wise change one's description?

Or, do you believe that things are fine the way they are now and just go with the idea that people just won't "see" what they shouldn't when attacked?

[mansa]

I highly doubt that a new system will come into affect soon, in regards to changing your main description, simply on the basis that people will abuse this system to no end.

My reasoning behind this is that people already wear a hood and a veil / facewrap and increase their sdesc length from 35 characters to an ungodly 100+ characters and remain that way for the rest of their characters lives, never lowering their hood or removing their veil / facewrap, and never allowing people to know their true keywords of their characters.

If you never know a characters keywords, there is always a chance that you might slip up and attack someone other than your designed target, which is a total ooc conception and is, in my opinion, an abuse of code.

It's on par with wearing newbie clothing wandering around the entrance of the 'rinth waiting for true newbies to spawn there, consider you as an easy target, and then attack you, and then you kill them with your ultra leet skills.

Why, for example, there was a well known templar who slipped up and typed 'kill elf', JUST AFTER a different elf walked into the screen.  That elf was killed, for no reason other than a slip up of keywords.  The templar said, "Oops, well, he deserved it anyways...." or something to that extent.

If a readily available way to chance your main description was put into the game, almost every person playing a thief, burglar, assassin, and warrior will use this feature, almost every moment they could.  

Remember, this is a game and some people do play to win.  They will use every code feature and every bug that they know in order to kill you.  Including this example here:  
Getting someone to follow you, and then spamming commands to walk into your apartment, close the door, and then lock it.
People can't flee when you're spamming commands.

But, I like to use tangents and think of cool stuff to say.  Back on track to the cloak discussion.

Right now, it's up to the player to decide how well they've seen this 'hooded' figure.  It's up to you to decide how to role play.  Most -new- players will spout out, "he's got one eye, yellow teeth, black skin, blah blah, repeat mdesc without changing words", and most elderly players will just say, "I dunno.  I think he had a scar, perhaps."  We lead by our examples.

[My 2 sids]

I realize how coded cover-up of descriptions could be abused.  But, that's why I'm calling it as a skill.  A skill so that people have to actually be trying to hide themselves from someone.  I see this as the same as anyone can role-play hideing... but the coded skill there is for the coded way to ensure people role-play accordingly.  I also put a limit on the amount of time people could cloak themselves.  (Granted, listen is probably already abused enough... but not all the time).  The time limit would mean people cannot just spend their whole life cloaked for the same reason they can't spam any other skill.

[mansa]

If it was a skill, which classes get it?  That's the question that bugs X-D.  Should -everybody- have access to it?  Again, if everybody has access to it, then everybody is going to use it.

And, My 2 sids, X-D has brought up the subject that if you wear more than 3 pieces of equipment that change your 'sdesc', then it should give you a different 'mdesc', based on that you've covered yourself up super fantastic.

[X-D]

I highly doubt that a new system will come into affect soon, in regards to changing your main description, simply on the basis that people will abuse this system to no end


If a readily available way to chance your main description was put into the game, almost every person playing a thief, burglar, assassin, and warrior will use this feature, almost every moment they could.

First, Where is the abuse? People talk about it all the time but I've never seen any from the covered/masked person's side and nobody, and I mean NOBODY can come up with a good example of OOC abuse of being able to mask your main desc.

On the second part of the quote...Of course they will, and that is the REASON for IC action against people doing that. Increase PC interaction, give templars/militia and other pc's something else to be a dick about. It would not take very long to not see hooded people inside if the people who SHOULD be annoyed by it did something about it, Hell, I'm all for going even farther and if somebody has the items on to make mask flag active that Crim code will not defend them...at least in indoor public places.

Also, Mansa brought up the HUGE sdesc on facewrapped/hooded people, I agree this is annoying. Easily fixed by adding in the multi item mask flag, simply make the mask flag a generic sdesc, say something like.

The well covered huge and skinny figure is standing here.

If you look at them you get the above then a visable EQ list,  which should be, Cloak, face cover, hand coverings, held items, feet and legs...maybe arms and wrists and ankles. No main desc at all.

This also solves the most quoted problem by the staff, that of mask items having to have custem Mdesc's.

The great thing about this system is, NO guesswork, what you actually could see is what you get, maybe peek will get you more, assess -v would make it more precise.

If you wanted, you could add a bit to the bouncer at the trader to not allow mask flag active people in, exept for maybe nobles, then add another at the sanc, along with a script that makes the bartender give a warning if you become mask flagged while in there then boots you out.

Though, I much prefer crime code not defending if people are mask flagged, might be a little bloody for a week or so, but it would balance quickly. :-D

[mansa]

I highly doubt that a new system will come into affect soon, in regards to changing your main description, simply on the basis that people will abuse this system to no end...

First, Where is the abuse? People talk about it all the time but I've never seen any from the covered/masked person's side and nobody, and I mean NOBODY can come up with a good example of OOC abuse of being able to mask your main desc.

1)  If your mdesc is 'masked', then your 'sdesc' will also be 'masked'.

2)  When you create a character, you create keywords based off nicknames, and the words that are in your original sdesc.  Most people try and do something unique, so people can easily pick you out of a crowd.  Pompadoured, for example.  But, when you are creating a 'shady' character, you want to do everything possible to -not- be noticed, including using plain, basic keywords and a plain, basic sdesc.  These little techniques are helpful in order to make yourself 'one' in the crowd.  Tall, or sinewy, for example.  These mindsets, when you create a character, are used with almost every character in the game.

3)  Once you are in the gameworld of Armageddon, you can get items that hide your 'original' sdesc.  Let's use 'dark, hooded cloak'.  You once were known to the world as, 'the super fantanstic sdesc man, but as soon as you raise your hood, you become, 'the figure in a dark, hooded cloak'.
Your keywords still contain, 'super, fantastic', and you get new ones, being 'figure, dark, hooded, cloak'.

4)  Since you never lower your hood after you've raised it, people will never know your -real- sdesc, or your -unique- keywords.  (Of course, you've already made it so that your sdesc is as plain and popular as ever, aswell)  You walk into a bar in the 'rinth, and there happens to be 3 other players who are using the same stragedy as you, to become uber thieves.  After a few hours of roleplay, you have 4 people who's sdesc are hidden, who's unique keywords are hidden, and who are using nicknames which aren't in their keyword list, and you have to sort through 2.figure, 3.figure, and 4.figure, and they all sit at the bar.

5)  Think back to the time in the T'zai Byn, on an outing into the sands, and there was no -hitch- command.  You had no idea which kank was yours.  You couldn't even name a kank anything.

6)  People do this now.  In my opinion, this is incredibly twinky.  This is the abuse that I am talking about.  Having the ability to wear 3 or more items and then getting your 'mdesc' changed automagickally is just the NEXT STEP TO MADNESS.  Have you ever played in the 'rinth?  ITS A MAD HOUSE.  
-tangent- This would be cleared up if we could, as players, have a way of sticking our own keywords on people, much like we can now with our kanks.

...If a readily available way to chance your main description was put into the game, almost every person playing a thief, burglar, assassin, and warrior will use this feature, almost every moment they could.

On the second part of the quote...Of course they will, and that is the REASON for IC action against people doing that. Increase PC interaction, give templars/militia and other pc's something else to be a dick about. It would not take very long to not see hooded people inside if the people who SHOULD be annoyed by it did something about it, Hell, I'm all for going even farther and if somebody has the items on to make mask flag active that Crim code will not defend them...at least in indoor public places.

How many times have you seen an elf walk up to a Borsail Sergeant in the Bard's Barrel, and proceed to make fun of him, laugh at him, piss on him, and continue to do so.   Why doesn't the Borsail do anything?

Because the Borsail guy is afraid of the wanted code, and the borsail guy doesn't want to be ganked by a billion militia members all running to rescue this elf.  This is the subject to another thread, though.

People can come up with excuses to wear their mask at all times...and they will do it.  And you will attempt to hurt them but they've become untouchable because you do not know their keywords.

[Pantoufle]

As far as certain guilds receiving the ability to cloak themself and not others, this is no more or less unfair than the current class/guild system.  Take the hide skill for example.  In many cases hiding might involve slipping behind a tapestry or stepping into a large chest and closing the lid shut.  In either of these two scenarios, you don't need to be a friggin' acrobat to pull this off successfully.  Yet the code will not allow you to do these things unless you are one of a select group of guilds.  I don't think implementing a newer skill for-certain-guilds-only would tip the balance of fairness in any way (since it's already unfair as it is -- but that's life).

Having said that, I don't see the need to implement a "cloaking" skill anyways.  You will never find a perfect setup to people who wish to conceal themselves.  There is no right answer to it, and I don't think any new setup would make it any better without adding a handful of consequences as a result.  I think we need to just deal with the way masks and hoods, etc. work in game currently.

[Lazloth]

-tangent- This would be cleared up if we could, as players, have a way of sticking our own keywords on people, much like we can now with our kanks.

Midway through your rendition, I was thinking the same thing.  Keywords can be floaters that disappear as soon as you log off, but alas, I guarantee this will never come to pass.

[X-D]

Not gonna quote, but, most the points you made Mansa are VALID IC, even IRL you want to look common as possible if you are the criminal type, called blending in, So, point #6, and #4, shrug, you have succeeded in blending in at that point. Now, to continue with point #6bold, This is a shortcoming of a text game unfortunatly. I see one partial solution, no idea how hard it would be to add, but it would be nice if YOU could assign a keyword to somebody else, this would only work for your pc of course.

Say 3 cloaked or even masked figures, title 1.figure Hewey Title 2.figure lewey title 3.figure Amos. Now, if you type look amos it looks at 3.figure, even if they change orders, say amos leaves and comes back putting himself at 1.figure, he still remains Amos, but only to your PC, somebody else does a l amos they get the no such person message.

Now, for the second part, happily brawl code is in effect in many taverns, So now that borsail Can do something about that elf with less fear.

People can come up with excuses to wear their mask at all times...and they will do it. And you will attempt to hurt them but they've become untouchable because you do not know their keywords.

Again, remove crim code protection from them indoors.

IE mask flag active, open season, and if combat starts then the null crim stays in affect as long as the combat timer (you know, the your to excited to leave timer) Even if they become un-masked, Simple, and so what if you attack the wrong figure, he was masked too:) People who don't want to take the chance of getting smacked accidently will not be masked now will they?

[mansa]

My main reason why this probably will not be put into the game, is because it creates a huge potential for abuse.

It would be -nice- if it was an addition, but, in order for it to be put into game, other things must be coded too; for example, a way that you can add additional keywords to other characters, to avoid keyword mixups.

Right now, though, it doesn't seem to be so bad.  Sure, it appears that everyone is wearing a veil or facewrap in every tavern you come across in every part of the known world, but, in the end, so far, it really is up to -you- to decide how much your character can see under their hood.

And that's the final point I'd like to make.

If you think your character has a photograpic memory, then go ahead and play it that way.  If your character can't remember his love's name, and you don't even remember the race of the thing that tortured you, then go ahead and play it that way.  Lead by example of what you think is realistic for your character to see and to observe, and others will follow your example.

[Lazloth]

My main reason why this probably will not be put into the game, is because it creates a huge potential for abuse.

This creates absolutely no potential for abuse (unless you're some kind of masochist).

We're talking about PLAYER A having a list of pointers that he can style as he wants -- think to your aliases:setting an alias of "look" to "think YOU'RE BLIND STUPID" impacts only the one player.

EDIT:  Whoops, you're talking about the cloaking thing.  Heh, thought we were derailing.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Pointless.

[EvilRoeSlade]

The only problem would be that sooner or later some jackass is going to wander around putting keywords like "templar" and "scrab" on people.  But I don't think that's enough reason to withhold it.  Instead I'd give people a command to purge themselves of extra tagged on keywords, to limit the damage that the command might do if abused.

[Lazloth]

The only problem would be that sooner or later some jackass is going to wander around putting keywords like "templar" and "scrab" on people.

Are you high, or just not reading?
The keywords are only valid for the person defining them.

[EvilRoeSlade]

No, see I just posted that to piss you off.

[Reiloth]

I ceaselessly do not understand the fear of the whole populace to abuse the code.

Having these items would make it much harder for Militia to capture criminals, right?

You're afraid of OOC abuse.

If you see OOC/IC abuse, make a log of it, send it to the mud account, and that person gets serious damage done to his account in return.

Bad notes == no roles in good positions.

I've yet to understand why people are so afraid of every other PC "Abusing the code". The IMM's discourage it, its an RP enforced mud, and i've never seen someone abusing the code in a way that i've stopped and gone "Wow. That was stupid" except for very recently, in my near two years of playing.

I tend to respect the people playing this game, and so do the IMM's, or else they wouldn't have Karma.

Just an opinion.

[Mr.Camel]

I don't think its about abuse as much as it is about giving the hooded figure too much power. I'm going to see more than a dimmed blurr in the size of said figure if I look at them, IMO. I personally like being able to read the desc and decide what parts to notice and what to not according to the eq, weather and what not, but this too gives too much power to the person looking at the hooded figure. Anyway, I think its better the way it currently is.

And it doesn't take a skill for a person to wrap sandcloth about their faces for cover,  so I'm against the skill idea.