Armageddon MUD General Discussion Board

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Riev on January 16, 2017, 10:32:07 AM

Title: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on January 16, 2017, 10:32:07 AM
January 16th, 2017 release notes (http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,49825.msg975905.html#msg975905)

I'm real interested to see the tablet/vial workup change. The color addition was quite a while ago, and this looks like its really going to make things "easier" to deal with. Now if only we knew what half the cures did!

Also, dyeing for items! While I know I still can't wear my hot pink and purple scrab shell, this is also great!

Keep up the excellent work, coders! Really good stuff!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Miradus on January 16, 2017, 10:40:40 AM

I'm really excited to see where this goes. Like with other crafting?

For instance, craft a bone saber and a diamond ... You set a diamond in the pommel of a bone saber.

>look saber
A diamond-set bone saber has a diamond set in the pommel.

Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Feco on January 16, 2017, 10:40:53 AM
Fuck yeah.

That is all.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on January 16, 2017, 10:42:33 AM
It sure SOUNDS like recipes will have maybe a dynamic slot in them... so particular swords COULD accept a "gemstone" type and be a "diamond-pommelled sword" or a "sapphire-pommelled sword". Which would be rockstar in itself.

But to add it to other crafts, or have someone say "I want to be dressed in White and Gold for this event" and someone being able to ACTUALLY make white and gold and trim and everything without needing to know the recipe for that one dress... oh man.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: manipura on January 16, 2017, 10:53:12 AM
Is there still no way to dye something brown?  Brown has always been so underrepresented.

Really, if you are using colours/dyes that don't mix to create another shade, it's more likely that they'll be making brown than grey. 

I think these changes are pretty great though and despite my nitpicking above, I look forward to seeing the changes in game. :)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: WithSprinkles on January 16, 2017, 10:55:20 AM
There's brown dye in game. I forget where to get it, though.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Pale Horse on January 16, 2017, 11:09:14 AM
Kagor race added.

Karma level 7, I assume?  Still not as codedly OP as Vestric.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: LauraMars on January 16, 2017, 11:13:15 AM
CRAFTING =

(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: MeTekillot on January 16, 2017, 11:14:05 AM
http://armageddon.org/help/view/kagor
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Feco on January 16, 2017, 11:23:37 AM
Krath-damned sand badgers.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: SuchDragonWow on January 16, 2017, 01:05:52 PM
I'm confused about the archery change.  Is that still a skill?  Or will there be four new skills in its place?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 16, 2017, 01:06:55 PM
I'm confused about the archery change.  Is that still a skill?  Or will there be four new skills in its place?

The archery skill exists as it did before.

We have added 3 new skills
  crossbow use
  sling use
  blowgun use
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on January 16, 2017, 01:08:41 PM
Meaning (I assume) that learning to shoot a bow has -less- bearing on learning how to shoot a crossbow. Archery skill is over all of them, but if you learn how to shoot with a slingshot, you won't have as much skill as if you learned to shoot with a bow.

Which I like.

If not. Boo.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: SuchDragonWow on January 16, 2017, 01:08:58 PM
Cool, thanks.  I'm psyched about blowguns and poisoned darts.   8) 8)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: SuchDragonWow on January 16, 2017, 01:09:50 PM
Meaning (I assume) that learning to shoot a bow has -nearly- no bearing on learning how to shoot a crossbow. Archery skill is over all of them, but if you learn how to shoot with a slingshot, you won't have as much skill as if you learned to shoot with a bow.

Which I like.

If not. Boo.

He just said there are 3 new skills.  Archery is shooting a bow.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on January 16, 2017, 01:11:15 PM
Ooh, even better.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: SuchDragonWow on January 16, 2017, 01:13:29 PM
Yeah, I'm digging it.  I hope crossbows are legit at close range, now.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on January 16, 2017, 01:14:26 PM
Yeah, I'm digging it.  I hope crossbows are legit at close range, now.

At LEAST with no lag after shooting, you can pop someone and take off if need be. Or Shoot and Drop, pull out three more hand crossbows and go on a rampage ;)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nauta on January 16, 2017, 01:16:44 PM
Awesome changes!  Thank you for the work!

Question on this:
Quote
-The DB and items saved into the game have been updated for shootable weapons and their ammo.  Items on your characters have not.  If your shootable weapon or its ammo are not working correctly wish up for a new version of the item(s)

1. If I have a quiver with a bunch of arrows in them over my shoulder, should I assume these will not work?

2. Can I just leave the quiver in the room and type 'save' to get them to reset instead of wishing up?  Or is wishing up the only route?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Akariel on January 16, 2017, 02:14:25 PM
Items (bows/slings/crossbows/bolts/arrows/sling bullets) should all be updating as they go along. If you notice anything odd, wish up and we'll take a look.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on January 16, 2017, 03:05:23 PM
Are the new Archery, sling use ect. skills hidden or will they be on our skill list?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: James de Monet on January 16, 2017, 04:43:28 PM
Krath-damned sand badgers.

So what if you're 8x his size and likely to kill him in a single hit?  Sand badger don't care.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: BadSkeelz on January 16, 2017, 05:18:36 PM
I thought that kagor page already existed?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on January 16, 2017, 05:20:54 PM
I thought that kagor page already existed?

Me too.  I think for those of us that aren't city dwellers we see them frequently anyway.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Reiloth on January 16, 2017, 05:45:29 PM
I think maybe they weren't a coded separate race before.

Will different guilds/sub guilds have access to different strains of archery? I.E., bounty hunter gets crossbow, burglar sling, etc.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: lostinspace on January 16, 2017, 06:15:56 PM
Are the new Archery, sling use ect. skills hidden or will they be on our skill list?

I'm really interested in the answer to this. And does the fletchery skill govern the ability to make all of the types of ammo and weapons, or are their associated sling making, blowgun crafting skills? Should I expect to see these skills on my skill list if I previously had archery?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Akariel on January 16, 2017, 06:27:50 PM
Reiloth has the right of it re: kagor. You should see minimal change on the race on your side, it was mainly for our purposes (though the skinfile for them and anakore was also updated). The only real change you might notice is their tracks no longer resemble tregil tracks.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Molten Heart on January 16, 2017, 06:32:55 PM
I'm looking forward to the blowguns. It is glorious.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Dar on January 16, 2017, 07:52:51 PM
I'm loving how such a massive change just gets dropped like that. No half a year announcement, no hints, no blogs. Makes me wonder what kinds of wonders they've got cooking on ... ooph ... everything else.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Nathvaan on January 16, 2017, 08:33:53 PM
I'm loving how such a massive change just gets dropped like that. No half a year announcement, no hints, no blogs. Makes me wonder what kinds of wonders they've got cooking on ... ooph ... everything else.

*wiggles eyebrows*
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 16, 2017, 10:18:57 PM
The four skills ('archery', 'blowgun use', 'crossbow use', 'sling use'), should start appearing on guild/subguild trees as the week goes on.

There's code in place (for decades) that ensures any skills that appear on your character's guild/subguild tree that your character doesn't currently have get added at login.

With regards to crafting for arrows, bullets, darts, and bolts - nothing has changed, there.   Bullets can still be foraged/crafted while arrows/bolts/darts can still be crafted off of fletchery.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Miradus on January 16, 2017, 10:28:25 PM

Did slings get boosted any or are they still kind of gimpy?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Reiloth on January 16, 2017, 10:38:06 PM
The four skills ('archery', 'blowgun use', 'crossbow use', 'sling use'), should start appearing on guild/subguild trees as the week goes on.

There's code in place (for decades) that ensures any skills that appear on your character's guild/subguild tree that your character doesn't currently have get added at login.

With regards to crafting for arrows, bullets, darts, and bolts - nothing has changed, there.   Bullets can still be foraged/crafted while arrows/bolts/darts can still be crafted off of fletchery.

Will the helpfiles be updated to let us know which guild/subguild gets which skill? Or can you info dump here? Or both?

Thanks Nessalin and Nathvaan for all the hard work. Truly impressive, you are what make this game dynamic and reactive and constantly competing with even the strongest multi-thousand/million dollar games out there.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: ChibiTama on January 17, 2017, 01:55:07 AM
Are these already in effect? I just tried the whole craft thing with usual cure ingredients and it just didn't work.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: ChibiTama on January 17, 2017, 02:04:54 AM
I also happened to notice that brew is no longer able to produce candles as it was once able. The recipes seem to be completely gone now. Is this intended?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Nathvaan on January 17, 2017, 06:08:26 AM
I also happened to notice that brew is no longer able to produce candles as it was once able. The recipes seem to be completely gone now. Is this intended?

I have tested a few candles and they seem to work just fine.  I think this is likely a one off issue.  Can you please open up a request with logs of what you are trying and we will be glad to have a look.

Are these already in effect? I just tried the whole craft thing with usual cure ingredients and it just didn't work.

Yes, this is already in effect.  Please include specific logs in the request about this as well. We can look at both things at once.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Nathvaan on January 17, 2017, 06:22:40 AM
The four skills ('archery', 'blowgun use', 'crossbow use', 'sling use'), should start appearing on guild/subguild trees as the week goes on.

There's code in place (for decades) that ensures any skills that appear on your character's guild/subguild tree that your character doesn't currently have get added at login.

With regards to crafting for arrows, bullets, darts, and bolts - nothing has changed, there.   Bullets can still be foraged/crafted while arrows/bolts/darts can still be crafted off of fletchery.

Will the helpfiles be updated to let us know which guild/subguild gets which skill? Or can you info dump here? Or both?

Thanks Nessalin and Nathvaan for all the hard work. Truly impressive, you are what make this game dynamic and reactive and constantly competing with even the strongest multi-thousand/million dollar games out there.

When the skills are in place they will be visible on the skills list, in the help files and likely announced as well (perhaps here or in release notes).  As Nessalin stated they will be added in the coming weeks.

Thank you for the kind words.  We, like everyone, are just passionate about game and use our skills to do what we can to continue to push the game toward a better/more feature rich state.  As to competing with other MMOs, MUDs were here first.  I think they are just competing with us! ;)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Hauwke on January 17, 2017, 06:28:24 AM
Upon giving this change some serious thought, this will really give some serious power to master archery, since it will take a lot more to get it up to the max, I suspect making it much rarer (hopefully) and thus even more intimidating when some rocks up and neck shots your two buddies and asks for your boots.

Having a dedicated slings skill is going to be awesome because Ive actually kind of wondered why it wasnt its own already, its a very different motion to shooting a bow. Maybe it will be used now as an actual weapon, maybe for non lethal things or something. Never been hit with one so I dont know if thats a thing that exists but sweet if it does.

Crafting changes sound awesome and I actually suspect I might enjoy it if/when I eventually get around to rolling up my first ever merchant.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on January 17, 2017, 09:20:33 AM
I'm just so excited to see a potential change in crossbows. With no delay on shoot, it'll mean having a one-shot crossbow become so much more exhilarating. Especially because at "close range" they should be quite powerful. Pop a couple "hand crossbows", fire off a couple shots before engaging in the city? Take out an armored soldier? C'mon, guys!

Also dynamic crafting. Oh my god. Still preparing my soul for this.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Sedora on January 17, 2017, 10:21:25 AM
I'm looking forward to all the dyeing. But in light of this update I think staff might want to look into consolidating black dye. Even some longterm players I've met IC don't realize that there are two different blacks that essentially function the same. As a longterm merchant player, though, I know well this anguish.

a packet of bitter black dye - Used in some MCs, but the only cloth it actually dyes is sandcloth.

a package of black dye - Used in some MCs I'm sure, though I haven't found any. Also used to dye linen, cotton and silk.

My main worry here is whether one of the two isn't included in this update. If one didn't, with lots of people not knowing there are two and not stalking the GDB, people might get tricked into thinking black isn't possible cause they bought/crafted the wrong one.


Another thing I noticed is that a lot of the dyes I had prior to the update were turned into a packet of bitter dye. Should I send in a report with a log of that or is it something you guys are aware of?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Malken on January 17, 2017, 10:51:43 AM
Very awesome nice!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 17, 2017, 11:00:44 AM
Another thing I noticed is that a lot of the dyes I had prior to the update were turned into a packet of bitter dye. Should I send in a report with a log of that or is it something you guys are aware of?

Wish up asking for a new instance of the object.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 17, 2017, 11:04:47 AM
I'm looking forward to all the dyeing. But in light of this update I think staff might want to look into consolidating black dye. Even some longterm players I've met IC don't realize that there are two different blacks that essentially function the same. As a longterm merchant player, though, I know well this anguish.

a packet of bitter black dye - Used in some MCs, but the only cloth it actually dyes is sandcloth.

a package of black dye - Used in some MCs I'm sure, though I haven't found any. Also used to dye linen, cotton and silk.

My main worry here is whether one of the two isn't included in this update. If one didn't, with lots of people not knowing there are two and not stalking the GDB, people might get tricked into thinking black isn't possible cause they bought/crafted the wrong one.

This is the exact scenario the new system should prevent happening in the future.

Both of these will be updated as we go through the database so they can be used with the new dynamic crafting system, which will mean both can be used in dyeing materials.   We won't be keeping only one of them.

Once we've reach a certain point of confidence in the new system we'll be deprecating the old recipes as they're no longer needed.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: sleepyhead on January 17, 2017, 11:06:17 AM
So exciting! Will this change how MCs work?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: LauraMars on January 17, 2017, 11:38:18 AM
NESSALIN IS FIRE

(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)(http://i.imgur.com/0tHN8ap.png)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on January 17, 2017, 12:39:55 PM

Did slings get boosted any or are they still kind of gimpy?

Slings are pretty strong.   Not really great for pvp, but not bad for pve. 
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Miradus on January 17, 2017, 01:02:50 PM

The last time I used one, I whacked a tregil 8 times and he didn't go down. I can understand it not bringing down something bigger, but that's like hunting a rabbit ... which is what I'd think slings were good at.

Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on January 17, 2017, 01:10:54 PM
You can kill just about everything with a sling, maybe excluding some of the high stun creatures like a Mek, bahamet. 
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on January 17, 2017, 01:11:18 PM
Also, "Sling" and "Slingshot" are very different things.

It could take a while to kill a rabbit with a slingshot.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Delirium on January 17, 2017, 01:14:58 PM
I can't seem to get the brew crafting working. I'll send in a log once I have a chance to experiment more.

I feel like maybe I'm just doing the syntax wrong. Am I doing the syntax wrong? What should it be?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 17, 2017, 01:26:09 PM
I can't seem to get the brew crafting working. I'll send in a log once I have a chance to experiment more.

I feel like maybe I'm just doing the syntax wrong. Am I doing the syntax wrong? What should it be?

Crafting poisons and cures should work the same as brew did.  All recipes require two or three herb items.

Code: [Select]
> craft herb1 herb2(list of recipes displayed)

Code: [Select]
> craft herb1 herb2 herb3(list of recipes displayed)

Once you've decided on a recipe you'll have to use the # option for crafting, not the name.
Code: [Select]
> craft herb1 herb2 into #1(this will work)

Code: [Select]
> craft herb1 herb2 into lump of green mush(this will NOT work)


Sending along a log is always helpful.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: BadSkeelz on January 17, 2017, 01:29:53 PM

The last time I used one, I whacked a tregil 8 times and he didn't go down. I can understand it not bringing down something bigger, but that's like hunting a rabbit ... which is what I'd think slings were good at.



I've planted at least that many arrows from a high value bow in to a tregil to similar affect. Skill has a lot to do with it of course. Slings will kill NPCs (and I wouldn't recommend actually getting hit by one), but they'll probably do it slower and you won't be able to poison. Their big advantage is more readily available ammunition.

Will these new Weapon skills have varying rates of skill gain? Is it easier to master a Crossbow than a bow?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 17, 2017, 02:48:16 PM
I can't seem to get the brew crafting working. I'll send in a log once I have a chance to experiment more.

I feel like maybe I'm just doing the syntax wrong. Am I doing the syntax wrong? What should it be?

For those used to brewing, it is worth nothing that its item targeting was inconsistent with how the rest of the game works.

Namely, in brew if you have
Code: [Select]
> i
a blue herb
a green herb
a red herb
You could brew them with
Code: [Select]
> brew herb herb herb
With craft you would have to type
Code: [Select]
> craft herb 2.herb 3.herbor
Code: [Select]
> craft red.herb blue.herb green.herb
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: lostinspace on January 17, 2017, 04:32:05 PM
Hmm, I'm interested to see where these skills are going to end up... Now I'm going to want to store to see if this effects my favorite guild.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on January 17, 2017, 04:52:36 PM
Dear Staff,

If you give me master crossbow use, I promise to only use it to kill everyone.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: purpledragon on January 18, 2017, 12:24:25 AM
will current characters skilled at archery have their skills transferred to all new types (having all @ the current level of archery), or will new types be set to 0?
if latter, will it be possible to switch to submit request and transfer skill points from archery to crossbows?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Dresan on January 18, 2017, 01:46:41 AM
Interesting change.

I see there is a strength/Stamina component for loading crossbows. However as per the help-files(shown below), does agility still rule them all? Also with exception of equipment, are all skills are equal across the board? Despite the story of David and Goliath, I have a hard time believing a slingshot would have the same long range impact as an arrow or bolt to an armored head and neck. Just wondering if the difference between how the skills perform (other than delay times) are going to be reflected with equipment costs/weight?   

Quote
Agility
(Attributes)

Agility is an ability score that measures all types of physical coordination and swiftness. Hand-eye coordination, reaction time, balance, depth perception, and reflexes are all types of characteristics measured by agility.

The agility score is used to determine speed of reaction in combat, missile fire bonuses, ability to dodge objects, escape capture, avoid dangerous spell effects, leap across distances, climb walls, and picking pockets of unsuspecting bystanders.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Bushranger on January 18, 2017, 04:59:38 AM
Interesting change.

I see there is a strength/Stamina component for loading crossbows. However as per the help-files(shown below), does agility still rule them all? Also with exception of equipment, are all skills are equal across the board? Despite the story of David and Goliath, I have a hard time believing a slingshot would have the same long range impact as an arrow or bolt to an armored head and neck. Just wondering if the difference between how the skills perform (other than delay times) are going to be reflected with equipment costs/weight?   

Quote
Agility
(Attributes)

Agility is an ability score that measures all types of physical coordination and swiftness. Hand-eye coordination, reaction time, balance, depth perception, and reflexes are all types of characteristics measured by agility.

The agility score is used to determine speed of reaction in combat, missile fire bonuses, ability to dodge objects, escape capture, avoid dangerous spell effects, leap across distances, climb walls, and picking pockets of unsuspecting bystanders.

There is also a strength/stamina component for firing a bow. These have been part of archery for a very long time. The difference is that a crossbow checks strength, to see if the string can be pulled, and subtracts some stamina when it is loaded. It means that unlike a bow a crossbow can be fired with no strength check, no stamina cost and no delay. (Which means a weak elf, merchant or noble can fire the most powerful crossbow so long as someone else loads it. I can totally see a noble "hunting" with a powerful silt-horror crossbow that their manservant loads for them between shots.)

* "Hunting" means shooting at beggars from the balcony overlooking Meleth's Circle :P
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 18, 2017, 10:11:07 AM
January 18th, 2017 Release (http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,49825.msg976126.html#new)

This should address the bugs reported, so far, with the new crafting changes.

Many thanks to those that included logs in their Game Bug requests.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 18, 2017, 10:14:16 AM
will current characters skilled at archery have their skills transferred to all new types (having all @ the current level of archery), or will new types be set to 0?

The new skills with be 0 until they are added to guilds and subguilds, at which point character skills will be bumped up when they login to their guild/subguild starting skill.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 10:27:46 AM

The last time I used one, I whacked a tregil 8 times and he didn't go down. I can understand it not bringing down something bigger, but that's like hunting a rabbit ... which is what I'd think slings were good at.

Sling damage is based on (at least) bullet quality and hit location.  I've killed fairly large critters (humanoid-range HP) with 5 stones before (3 head/neck/wrist shots, 2 body).  I'm pretty sure I've 2-shotted tregils and jozhals before with a couple of back-to-back neck shots.

Question:  what's the deal with strength vs. bows now?  When I ass -v bows currently, it doesn't tell me whether the pull is too strong/too weak anymore.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 18, 2017, 10:42:11 AM
Question:  what's the deal with strength vs. bows now?  When I ass -v bows currently, it doesn't tell me whether the pull is too strong/too weak anymore.

Game bug request with log, please.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 18, 2017, 10:58:38 AM
Dear Staff,

If you give me master crossbow use, I promise to only use it to kill everyone.
(https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/1400x931121.jpg?w=748&h=496&crop=1)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Synthesis on January 18, 2017, 11:20:45 AM
Question:  what's the deal with strength vs. bows now?  When I ass -v bows currently, it doesn't tell me whether the pull is too strong/too weak anymore.

Game bug request with log, please.

Sent.

I should note that this appears to be an issue with particular items in shops and inventories.

I had a bow that wasn't assessing properly, and it also wouldn't shoot properly.  A staff member replaced it with a new bow, and now everything is working properly (as far as I can tell).
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on January 18, 2017, 11:22:46 AM
Dear Staff,

If you give me master crossbow use, I promise to only use it to kill everyone.
(https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/1400x931121.jpg?w=748&h=496&crop=1)

I would be perfectly alright if a loaded heavy crossbow, shooting someone in the neck or the head while in the same room, caused massive damage with a knock-down potential.

Just saying.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 18, 2017, 11:25:15 AM
Question:  what's the deal with strength vs. bows now?  When I ass -v bows currently, it doesn't tell me whether the pull is too strong/too weak anymore.

Game bug request with log, please.

Sent.

I should note that this appears to be an issue with particular items in shops and inventories.

I had a bow that wasn't assessing properly, and it also wouldn't shoot properly.  A staff member replaced it with a new bow, and now everything is working properly (as far as I can tell).

....game bug request with log, please.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Dar on January 18, 2017, 01:06:19 PM
salarri should have a booth with a mechanism inside it that, for a fee, would auto load any crossbow with a bolt of your choice. We can call that mechanism a dwarf.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on January 18, 2017, 01:17:15 PM
salarri should have a booth with a mechanism inside it that, for a fee, would auto load any crossbow with a bolt of your choice. We can call that mechanism a dwarf.

I'm imagining a minor merchant house idea based almost solely on providing HEAVY-pull crossbows, already loaded and ready, to people in the streets.

"Tired of your boss being an overbearing asshole? Think -you- can do better, telling grebbers what to do? Put a bolt in his ass!"
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: BadSkeelz on January 18, 2017, 02:18:10 PM
I remain skeptical that Zalanthan crossbows would be all that good, at least relative to normal bows given the materials both have to work with.

I do someday want to have a big game hunter who has a native gun dwarf tasked with carrying and loading all of my crossbows, however.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: wizturbo on January 18, 2017, 02:21:47 PM
I'm loving all these releases.  We're living in a new golden era of Armageddon's development.

I find myself checking the forums on a daily basis mostly because of the excitement for what might've been added. 
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: ChibiTama on January 18, 2017, 11:23:06 PM
Will 'a crumbling red tablet' do the same thing as 'a red tablet'?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: ChibiTama on January 18, 2017, 11:35:23 PM
I sent in a new bug log, staffers. :)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on January 19, 2017, 09:22:40 AM
Looking to test all these cures and poisons, in game. Breeds and elves, inquire within!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Synthesis on January 19, 2017, 10:06:51 AM
Are legacy cure tablets still functional?

Because it would be mildly annoying to suddenly "find out IC," so to speak.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 19, 2017, 10:10:29 AM
A non-code issue with cure/poison crafted has been fixed.  Specifically the issue where most any cure/poison crafted was making red mashes, tablets, and vials.

The issue with yellow herbs making grey mashes will be fixed in tomorrow morning's reboot.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 19, 2017, 10:16:16 AM
Old tablets and cures will continue to work as they always did.

The ability to make them will be removed once we've attained some confidence in feature parity between craft & brew and that the system acts as intended.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: ChibiTama on January 20, 2017, 12:22:21 AM
A non-code issue with cure/poison crafted has been fixed.  Specifically the issue where most any cure/poison crafted was making red mashes, tablets, and vials.

The issue with yellow herbs making grey mashes will be fixed in tomorrow morning's reboot.

I'm still getting this red tablet issue with mashes that I made yesterday.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Schrodingers Cat on January 20, 2017, 12:47:32 AM
I'm seeing I can make some things but not other things. Maybe I'm using an incorrect syntax, or don't have the right skill level but I'm seeing I can't make some of the things I can with the legacy brew system.

Will the same items still be brewable in the usual way, just using the new syntax or is there a fundamental change in how new brewed items are made? Will some items no longer be brewable?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: ChibiTama on January 20, 2017, 02:28:59 AM
Is there supposed to be such a high fail rate on the new brew code?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: bardlyone on January 20, 2017, 03:18:42 AM
Is there supposed to be such a high fail rate on the new brew code?

The only things I've succeeded at making with it are the soaps you could before the change. After several fails on the first of what are apparently MULTIPLE steps now, I just gave up and went back to before. When most ingredients are costly and hard to find in duplicate unless you are personally out riding around for them, it simply becomes more efficient to stay with the old which takes twice as many ingredients (I assume, again, I've not gotten a mash to work at all, let alone steps after it), than to ruin 2-3x the materials that one tablet the old way uses.

I guess I'll just be screwed when it's phased out, but until then, I'll actually make stuff, so there's that at least. >.> I like the concept of the brew changes, but I'd have to succeed with... well... any of it... to even guess at how I like their implementation. Although, with jman ability, it's kinda disheartening to ruin half a dozen of half a dozen tries at just the first STEP of a new system.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Hauwke on January 20, 2017, 05:40:06 AM
I mean maybe it will function similar to cooking now, until you get near master you cant even cook a steak.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 20, 2017, 08:29:26 AM
I'm still getting this red tablet issue with mashes that I made yesterday.

Game Bug report, preferably with a log, would be helpful.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: RogueGunslinger on January 20, 2017, 08:30:34 AM
Is there anything stopping someone from master-crafting up a trench-coat/bandoleer combo and having 8 loaded hand-crossbows draw-able from within it?

Pre-loaded crossbows could make for some seriously devastating damage potential if there's truly no delay.

Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 20, 2017, 08:32:04 AM
I'm seeing I can make some things but not other things. Maybe I'm using an incorrect syntax, or don't have the right skill level but I'm seeing I can't make some of the things I can with the legacy brew system.

Will the same items still be brewable in the usual way, just using the new syntax or is there a fundamental change in how new brewed items are made? Will some items no longer be brewable?

This is vague and impossible to reply to.  A gamebug, preferably wth a log, and some context would be helpful.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 20, 2017, 09:05:33 AM
Exaplantion of Cure/Poison crafting (http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,52152.0.html)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on January 20, 2017, 09:20:34 AM
Maybe with more fails and more material consumption, people won't walk around with a dozen cures that cost a small, against a rare poison that costs six time that for one application.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: bardlyone on January 20, 2017, 09:39:49 AM
Maybe with more fails and more material consumption, people won't walk around with a dozen cures that cost a small, against a rare poison that costs six time that for one application.

Doubtful. People don't collect X, Y or Z as protection because they don't see a point in it. At best it will only affect newbies who can't find the stuff to start with, and new pcs who are already at a mass disadvantage against longer lived pcs. If you think it will change anything for longer lived pcs (the ones you might actually NEED poison to counter the combat skills of), I think you're kidding yourself. I don't mean that in a mean way, either. But seriously, it's not going to change a practice that is what it is because it's what people find they need to be/do/work effectively. All it's going to do is be more timesink for the same ends. People used to carry one set of cures and now they carry five or six. They adapted to the change to counter the change to make cures less of a guarantee by carrying more cures rather than just the 1 still and maybe dying to it. And in the exact same way that they will this one. Because it's human nature.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on January 20, 2017, 09:57:44 AM
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm still all for people having packages of cures ready for consumption, but some cures cost like 20 coins, while the poison it takes to even make them necessary are 300 coins PER APPLICATION.

That's way more than the acceptable ounce of prevention being worth the pound of cure.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Schrodingers Cat on January 20, 2017, 10:01:39 AM
I'm seeing I can make some things but not other things. Maybe I'm using an incorrect syntax, or don't have the right skill level but I'm seeing I can't make some of the things I can with the legacy brew system.

Will the same items still be brewable in the usual way, just using the new syntax or is there a fundamental change in how new brewed items are made? Will some items no longer be brewable?

This is vague and impossible to reply to.  A gamebug, preferably wth a log, and some context would be helpful.

Should we be able to craft the same effective cures/poisons with the new system using the same starting materials used to brew the same poisons/cures used to make them in the old system? I can't and I'm not sure if it's a bug or because of low skill level. I'll send some logs when I get a chance.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on January 20, 2017, 10:06:48 AM
Is there anything stopping someone from master-crafting up a trench-coat/bandoleer combo and having 8 loaded hand-crossbows draw-able from within it?

Pre-loaded crossbows could make for some seriously devastating damage potential if there's truly no delay.

I'm sure, like "use tail" while riding a Sunback, this would be abused, and for an incredibly short time.


However, like a regular crossbow, I'd be fine if someone can fire off two shots without delay, before starting combat. If they drop the crossbows in between. But if you're in the same room I'm -totally- fine with it still initiating combat. At a distance, though? I can't imagine the kind of problem five no-lag shots can do to something.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: whitt on January 20, 2017, 10:10:14 AM
I'd love to hear how you store a loaded crossbow without the bolt falling out.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 20, 2017, 10:14:19 AM
I'd love to hear how you store a loaded crossbow without the bolt falling out.

Much in the same way you live your whole life and never have to take a shit or sleep.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: whitt on January 20, 2017, 10:29:28 AM
I'd love to hear how you store a loaded crossbow without the bolt falling out.

Much in the same way you live your whole life and never have to take a shit or sleep.

I suppose so?  Yet there are certain items in game, when you try to put them in a pack for storage they spill.  I'd think crossbow would behave similarly, staying cocked, but not loaded as the bolt would fall out if someone were to sling the crossbow or shove it in a bag or pack.  Then again, we don't require folks to string and unstring their bows for storage, so maybe I'm just overthinking.  Still - someone yanking fully loaded crossbows out of their duster, off their belt, from over their shoulder, and then three from their backpack strikes me as a bit immersion breaking.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: bardlyone on January 20, 2017, 10:33:32 AM
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm still all for people having packages of cures ready for consumption, but some cures cost like 20 coins, while the poison it takes to even make them necessary are 300 coins PER APPLICATION.

That's way more than the acceptable ounce of prevention being worth the pound of cure.

Honestly it sounds to me like the poison costs too much then. Because you're not going to make people collect less cures, and making them more expensive won't prevent people from getting them, nor will making them more difficult to find. It'll only stretch the vulnerable window some.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nauta on January 20, 2017, 10:38:44 AM
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm still all for people having packages of cures ready for consumption, but some cures cost like 20 coins, while the poison it takes to even make them necessary are 300 coins PER APPLICATION.

That's way more than the acceptable ounce of prevention being worth the pound of cure.

Honestly it sounds to me like the poison costs too much then. Because you're not going to make people collect less cures, and making them more expensive won't prevent people from getting them, nor will making them more difficult to find. It'll only stretch the vulnerable window some.

I agree with the above concern about vulnerable newbies, but at the same time...

It'd require a lot of thinking through to make sure the balance is right (and right now the balance is pretty ok), but I would love to see: both poisons and cures spoil/expire after a certain amount of time -- I'm thinking: poisons) after an IG month if unapplied or an IG year if applied; cures) after an IG year if tablet; 2 IG years if vial.


Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 20, 2017, 10:47:39 AM
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm still all for people having packages of cures ready for consumption, but some cures cost like 20 coins, while the poison it takes to even make them necessary are 300 coins PER APPLICATION.

That's way more than the acceptable ounce of prevention being worth the pound of cure.

Honestly it sounds to me like the poison costs too much then. Because you're not going to make people collect less cures, and making them more expensive won't prevent people from getting them, nor will making them more difficult to find. It'll only stretch the vulnerable window some.

I agree with the above concern about vulnerable newbies, but at the same time...

It'd require a lot of thinking through to make sure the balance is right (and right now the balance is pretty ok), but I would love to see: both poisons and cures spoil/expire after a certain amount of time -- I'm thinking: poisons) after an IG month if unapplied or an IG year if applied; cures) after an IG year if tablet; 2 IG years if vial.

This is the line of thinking with the mash/tablet/vial system.  That over time their effectiveness would wane until they are eventually worthless (and would have text to indicate so the same way foods do).

A mash would be most effective but has the shortest lifespan.

A vial would be medium effectiveness with the longest lifespan.  Requires an empty vial so there's a cost component and size issue.

A tablet would be medium effectiveness with a medium lifespan.

This is not coded, or even planned coding, yet, but that is some of the thinking behind the progression of...

herbs->mash
herbs->mash->tablet
herbs->mash->vial
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Delirium on January 20, 2017, 10:56:16 AM
One thing I've noticed is that it's very inconsistent what tablets/vials can be sold to herbalists - and the prices are abysmal. If they're eventually not going to be as useful to keep stockpiled, then we could at least make a business out of it by selling to NPCs as well as PCs, since playtime logistics can get really hairy (same as it does with food).
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: ChibiTama on January 20, 2017, 10:57:06 AM
I just find it a little bit excessive for someone who has the skill at Master to be failing four out of five on attempts to create mashes and tablets.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on January 20, 2017, 10:57:18 AM
So the eventual idea is to keep a few herbs on hand, and whip up a mash in the moment, for maximum potency. But if you want to have a cure on hand, or need to shove it down someone's throat, vials are superior.


I like it.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 20, 2017, 11:01:31 AM
I just find it a little bit excessive for someone who has the skill at Master to be failing four out of five on attempts to create mashes and tablets.

The numbers can certainly be tweaked.  We're in the early stages, still.  This is why the craft/brew systems are working in parallel as bugs are fixed.

If you could put in a game bug request with some hard numbers on your attempts/failures and which herbs you were using it would make it easier for me to look at what's going on.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 20, 2017, 11:03:36 AM
So the eventual idea is to keep a few herbs on hand, and whip up a mash in the moment, for maximum potency. But if you want to have a cure on hand, or need to shove it down someone's throat, vials are superior.


I like it.

Correct.  The right tool for the right job.

Also gives people a reason to have an actual healer along rather than 'healer in a bottle'.  Similar to how potions got out of hand because everyone kept a cache of them in their inventory.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nauta on January 20, 2017, 11:07:12 AM
I just find it a little bit excessive for someone who has the skill at Master to be failing four out of five on attempts to create mashes and tablets.

I'm still waiting for the code to settle a bit, but the other day when I tried, I found the results delightfully better.  I failed a couple times, but the craft delay is so much smaller than with brew.  From what I could tell, I like it.

That said, I did notice a bug: it only took one herb to make a mash, rather than two.  I'll file it off if it isn't already fixed.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: bardlyone on January 20, 2017, 11:09:59 AM
I just assumed it took two mashes to make a vial/tablet and each one of those took one herb, so if you succeeded at both it still took 2 herbs, rather than doubling it to 4 (two per mash). Does it only take 1 mash?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Delirium on January 20, 2017, 11:10:06 AM
So the eventual idea is to keep a few herbs on hand, and whip up a mash in the moment, for maximum potency. But if you want to have a cure on hand, or need to shove it down someone's throat, vials are superior.


I like it.

Correct.  The right tool for the right job.

Also gives people a reason to have an actual healer along rather than 'healer in a bottle'.  Similar to how potions got out of hand because everyone kept a cache of them in their inventory.

While I really like the thinking that's going into this, we should also keep in mind playability and player availability.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Delirium on January 20, 2017, 11:20:43 AM
Also, are we going to look into the (unrealistic) speed of onset for some of these poisons as a counterbalance?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Akaramu on January 20, 2017, 11:32:13 AM
So the eventual idea is to keep a few herbs on hand, and whip up a mash in the moment, for maximum potency. But if you want to have a cure on hand, or need to shove it down someone's throat, vials are superior.


I like it.

Correct.  The right tool for the right job.

Also gives people a reason to have an actual healer along rather than 'healer in a bottle'.  Similar to how potions got out of hand because everyone kept a cache of them in their inventory.

While I really like the thinking that's going into this, we should also keep in mind playability and player availability.

What Delirium said. Let's not penalize offpeakers without access to healer PCs more.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 20, 2017, 11:34:03 AM
I just assumed it took two mashes to make a vial/tablet and each one of those took one herb, so if you succeeded at both it still took 2 herbs, rather than doubling it to 4 (two per mash). Does it only take 1 mash?

1 mash transforms into 1 tablet
1 mash + 1 empty vial transforms into 1 filled vial
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: bardlyone on January 20, 2017, 11:41:09 AM
So the eventual idea is to keep a few herbs on hand, and whip up a mash in the moment, for maximum potency. But if you want to have a cure on hand, or need to shove it down someone's throat, vials are superior.


I like it.

Correct.  The right tool for the right job.

Also gives people a reason to have an actual healer along rather than 'healer in a bottle'.  Similar to how potions got out of hand because everyone kept a cache of them in their inventory.

While I really like the thinking that's going into this, we should also keep in mind playability and player availability.

What Delirium said. Let's not penalize offpeakers without access to healer PCs more.

These being the reasons why I wasn't fond of food spoilage either, still am not, and am dreading making more things spoil.

If playtimes weren't an issue, that'd be... I guess a whole different game. When I am on, there is usually between 3-9 other players, at the opening and tail end of playtimes, closer to 15.

I have to assume that the game is different and a whole hell of a lot less frustrating when trying to do things that require other people being online when other people talk about making you NEED this or that type of pc around, given that it's usually difficult to find a templar or a gmh employee or other much more game-world-rooted pcs as far as tie ins to the overarching game when I am on. I can't fathom people suggesting you make needing yet other people around who I typically won't find. I can only assume they're playing a different game or part of the influx of 'peak time' players who get the most consideration even though it's the smallest window of playtime in the game. Of COURSE people who play outside the magic window will be frustrated when you design things to that everyone playing during these few hours a day all needs each other for coded rather than RP reasons, because it shafts the people who will never find those pcs, who never log in during those times, but still need to accomplish X, Y, or Z.

I just assumed it took two mashes to make a vial/tablet and each one of those took one herb, so if you succeeded at both it still took 2 herbs, rather than doubling it to 4 (two per mash). Does it only take 1 mash?

1 mash transforms into 1 tablet
1 mash + 1 empty vial transforms into 1 filled vial

This makes the fail rate less galling. Thank you for the info. I like the concept of what this is going to be, but the details are still way too confusing to comment on.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 20, 2017, 02:36:35 PM
What Delirium said. Let's not penalize offpeakers without access to healer PCs more.

Noted.

Cure/Poison degradation is a ways off.  When the time comes to code up we can look at it taking a long time.  The scenario to avoid is one where a starting player buys a bag of cures and still has them 10ic years later when they eat the wrong mushroom.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Reiloth on January 20, 2017, 02:38:54 PM
What Delirium said. Let's not penalize offpeakers without access to healer PCs more.

Noted.

Cure/Poison degradation is a ways off.  When the time comes to code up we can look at it taking a long time.  The scenario to avoid is one where a starting player buys a bag of cures and still has them 10ic years later when they eat the wrong mushroom.

Instead of 'spoiling', what if the tablets effectiveness reduced over time? So you still have the tablet, but in that 'moment of truth', whether or not it works is dependent on that. The tablets, as well, aren't Advil or Tyelnol. They're supposed to be dried out herbs made into a mush and set out to dry into 'tablets' that can be taken. So maybe the older they are, the more likely they are to crumble into dust when you get them from your bag/pouch/belt.

I really like the 'Poison Recovery' aspect that was either added in or I didn't notice before, where just because you take a tablet doesn't mean the poison is automatically flushed from your system. It'd be nice if each poison had a different poison recovery effect.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 20, 2017, 02:47:33 PM
Instead of 'spoiling', what if the tablets effectiveness reduced over time? So you still have the tablet, but in that 'moment of truth', whether or not it works is dependent on that. The tablets, as well, aren't Advil or Tyelnol. They're supposed to be dried out herbs made into a mush and set out to dry into 'tablets' that can be taken. So maybe the older they are, the more likely they are to crumble into dust when you get them from your bag/pouch/belt.

This was mentioned as a to-do earlier in the thread.  That's precisely what aging of cures would mean.  Although the sdesc updates would give a hint towards how degraded they are.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Jingo on January 20, 2017, 03:12:46 PM


It would be nice knowing what staff are moving towards here.

Is there a bigger picture?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Rathustra on January 20, 2017, 03:21:19 PM


It would be nice knowing what staff are moving towards here.

Is there a bigger picture?

(http://i.imgur.com/h3ynX7B.jpg)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 20, 2017, 03:26:09 PM


It would be nice knowing what staff are moving towards here.

Is there a bigger picture?

(http://i.imgur.com/N1lx7db.png)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: SuchDragonWow on January 20, 2017, 03:37:11 PM
I didn't realize you guys know Pepe Sylvia
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Jingo on January 20, 2017, 03:45:36 PM


It would be nice knowing what staff are moving towards here.

Is there a bigger picture?

(http://i.imgur.com/N1lx7db.png)

lol. That actually made me lose my shit.

But I think the tone of my post was misinterpreted. Are these changes being made in expectation for the main guild overhaul? Are we making them because archery needed a tweak? Or did we just feel archery deserved a broader base of skills. etc. etc. etc. I'm just curious.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 20, 2017, 03:58:26 PM


It would be nice knowing what staff are moving towards here.

Is there a bigger picture?

(http://i.imgur.com/N1lx7db.png)

lol. That actually made me lose my shit.

But I think the tone of my post was misinterpreted. Are these changes being made in expectation for the main guild overhaul? Are we making them because archery needed a tweak? Or did we just feel archery deserved a broader base of skills. etc. etc. etc. I'm just curious.

(https://i.imgflip.com/1i1h6w.jpg)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Jingo on January 20, 2017, 04:11:23 PM
Or I guess you don't have to answer? Or is there something else I'm missing?

It was a serious question and I'm not liking the way it's being dismissed here.

I'll add that I do think it's cool that you guys are making changes and updates to the way the game works.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 20, 2017, 04:29:54 PM
Or I guess you don't have to answer? Or is there something else I'm missing?

It was a serious question and I'm not liking the way it's being dismissed here.

I'll add that I do think it's cool that you guys are making changes and updates to the way the game works.

We rarely make comments on plans because it sets expectations.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Jingo on January 20, 2017, 04:30:48 PM
Or I guess you don't have to answer? Or is there something else I'm missing?

It was a serious question and I'm not liking the way it's being dismissed here.

I'll add that I do think it's cool that you guys are making changes and updates to the way the game works.

We rarely make comments on plans because it sets expectations.

Gotcha. Thanks.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: BadSkeelz on January 20, 2017, 05:10:39 PM
Watching the Pepe Silvia clip made me realize Barney has max stealth/hide.

I wish I had the crafting skills to explore additional sling-related items. Maybe next character. I see room for growth in ammunition (clay-forged bullets), staff-slings, slings with additional weight capacity but reduced range, etc.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: BadSkeelz on January 20, 2017, 07:07:00 PM
I like the rebranding of Mastercrafts in to Custom Crafts, and the more explicit guidelines for what can be created.

discussion moved to here: http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,52157.msg976589/boardseen.html#new
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Bushranger on January 20, 2017, 07:13:04 PM
Watching the Pepe Silvia clip made me realize Barney has max stealth/hide.

I wish I had the crafting skills to explore additional sling-related items. Maybe next character. I see room for growth in ammunition (clay-forged bullets), staff-slings, slings with additional weight capacity but reduced range, etc.

Half-giant slings with head sized stones as ammunition!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: The Warshaper on January 20, 2017, 09:15:37 PM
Im pretty sure there was some positive feedback for making archery not include slings because folks were skilling up with slings and then stepping over to a bow without their character having used one extensively enough to translate their gains from using a sling.

I like specializations. If melee weapons had more categories codedly I'd support that too!  :)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: BadSkeelz on January 20, 2017, 09:35:58 PM
Yeah, I'm afraid that was the main reason for sling-use in game. Despite them historically being a pretty fearsome weapon in their own right, they don't have nearly the same utility of bows for range, damage, or poison delivery. Yet.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Refugee on January 20, 2017, 10:51:45 PM
Arrows are lost at such a prohibitive rate when you are new, and they are so expensive, that I am a bit sad about this change.  Yes, it's silly that using a sling will make you good with a bow, but I always played it as training your hand-eye coordination and suspended my disbelief.  I'm not sure how we can afford training up bowmen without archery targets and slings now!  Well, I guess they will have to postpone archery training until they can afford it.  That makes sense.

Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Rokal on January 21, 2017, 02:03:45 AM
i honestly think the archery being split off into different types of weapons is going to be awesome.

I've wanted to have a character that specialized in slings for the longest time, so I'm hoping to see more sling-style weapons come out.

honestly, in general, all of the changes in this new update are pretty exciting to me, to me the changes to brewing seem to be just baby steps towards a more robust system of 'alchemy', and allows for a huge amount of RP potential too.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Delirium on January 21, 2017, 02:09:51 AM
The more I wrap my head around how this new brewing system will/should work, the more I love its potential.

Excited.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Seeker on January 21, 2017, 12:14:50 PM
The more I wrap my head around how this new brewing system will/should work, the more I love its potential.

Excited.
Bah.  That is just because you have publicly arranged to receive special behind-the-curtain Request Tool instruction in all its subtle intricacies.  Stinker.

What's worse... you are probably playing some flavor of Ranger, too.  *snort*

(the above is intended to be humorous... and spelling error corrected)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Delirium on January 22, 2017, 02:08:47 AM
I know you're joking, Peeker... but just in case anyone gets the wrong impression....


For existing PCs with high skills we respond via the request tool to help them convert their knowledge of current recipes over to new ones.

What type of request would we submit and does it need to be clanned?


A question request is fine.

It'd be preferable if you include an example of what cures your character already knows how to brew by way of which items you are able to combine into which cures.   

We can provide you with information on how to use craft to make equivalent cures, but aren't going to give all master brewers information about the new system that extends beyond what their character knew in the old one.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Seeker on January 22, 2017, 02:21:55 AM
I swear it looked more playfully humorous when I typed it last night.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Reiloth on January 22, 2017, 11:46:49 AM
I thought it was funny.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: LauraMars on January 22, 2017, 03:54:07 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/N1lx7db.png)

lol. That actually made me lose my shit.

HAH
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Feco on January 22, 2017, 03:59:02 PM
I missed that.   That's fucking hilarious!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Akaramu on January 22, 2017, 03:59:42 PM
Yup. Good stuff.  ;D
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: BadSkeelz on January 23, 2017, 02:59:06 PM
Hey in case anyone else missed it, there was more updates today:

Quote

January, 23rd, 2017

(Nessalin)
-Output when using the 'assess' command on objects has been updated
  -Now displays the material the object is primarily made out of
  -Format updated to (hopefully) be a little cleaner)
  -bow/crossbow/sling/blowgun now say what they are and what kind of ammo they use
  -arrow/bolt/bullet/dart now say that they are ammo and what kind of weapon they need
  -Fixed long standing bug where some skinning weapons would say they were usable for skinning twice
-Added things made from GEM, GLASS, CERAMIC, SALT, and FUNGUS undyeable.

(Nathvaan)
-A great deal of ground work for upcoming projects.

(Akariel, Rathustra)
-Blowgun use, sling use, and crossbow use have been added to primary guild skill trees.  These skills should be added to your character upon logging in if you're supposed to get them.

I'm particularly interested in seeing the assess -v update in action.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Delirium on January 23, 2017, 03:02:06 PM
I'm particularly interested in seeing the assess -v update in action.

It's neat, and definitely adds clarity. I like it. I forsee a lot of typos in the queue in the future!

... the silken thingamajig is primarily made of bone.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Synthesis on January 23, 2017, 10:07:24 PM
Arrows are lost at such a prohibitive rate when you are new, and they are so expensive, that I am a bit sad about this change.  Yes, it's silly that using a sling will make you good with a bow, but I always played it as training your hand-eye coordination and suspended my disbelief.  I'm not sure how we can afford training up bowmen without archery targets and slings now!  Well, I guess they will have to postpone archery training until they can afford it.  That makes sense.

Training archery with arrows is not cost-prohibitive if you only shoot at things you know you are exceedingly unlikely to hit.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Feco on January 24, 2017, 10:00:18 AM
Arrows are lost at such a prohibitive rate when you are new, and they are so expensive, that I am a bit sad about this change.  Yes, it's silly that using a sling will make you good with a bow, but I always played it as training your hand-eye coordination and suspended my disbelief.  I'm not sure how we can afford training up bowmen without archery targets and slings now!  Well, I guess they will have to postpone archery training until they can afford it.  That makes sense.

Training archery with arrows is not cost-prohibitive if you only shoot at things you know you are exceedingly unlikely to hit.

I'll make sure to avoid training archery on ya'll's moms.  OOhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 8)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Synthesis on January 24, 2017, 11:31:11 AM
(https://media.tenor.co/images/ddd26e2143ded158f364949ea2ef803f/raw)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Armaddict on January 28, 2017, 09:27:07 PM
Archery and brew changes are both awesome.

Brew, while vastly different, seems to be moving in the direction that was asked for in the poisoning discussion from code ideas awhile back.  I like when that happens.   8)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: BadSkeelz on January 30, 2017, 01:21:12 PM
Quote
(Lyric)
-Submitted several new combat messages that the code can choose from for greater variety.  These are things like kick, bash, backstab, and so on.

:O What is this?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on January 30, 2017, 01:32:21 PM
Quote
(Lyric)
-Submitted several new combat messages that the code can choose from for greater variety.  These are things like kick, bash, backstab, and so on.

:O What is this?

When you use combat skills like bash, kick, backstab there are a set of message for each broken into groups.

3 messages for when you hit, when you miss, when you hit and kill your target.

The three messages per group are
-to attacker
-to victim
-to room

When a message is needed the code randomly selects a group from the list and displays those.  A few of them have two messages, most have only one.   The more that get added the more variety players will see in messages from the game.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: BadSkeelz on January 30, 2017, 01:33:03 PM
Neat. Thank you for the explanation.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Armaddict on January 30, 2017, 01:34:47 PM
Will this affect the ruling that kicks are kicks, and emotes denoting elbows and such should not be used?

Or is that ruling out of date altogether?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: BadSkeelz on January 30, 2017, 01:35:22 PM
There was a ruling on that? Man I've been breaking the rules for a long time.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Armaddict on January 30, 2017, 01:40:03 PM
There was a ruling on that? Man I've been breaking the rules for a long time.

Ruling might be too strong a word.  But I remember there being a hubbub over it (that maybe went away?) over items that had bonuses to kick skill but weren't used when you emoted other locations.

We were told kicks were kicks.  Perhaps I'm outdated, in which case asking this would be a good thing for me!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Synthesis on January 30, 2017, 01:41:55 PM
There was a ruling on that? Man I've been breaking the rules for a long time.

If someone reverses your kick, and you emoted it as an elbow, it would look really weird, because the reversal message is always based on the assumption that a kick is, in fact, a kick.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: BadSkeelz on January 30, 2017, 01:45:22 PM
I usually emote after the fact for just such a reason.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Inks on January 30, 2017, 05:53:57 PM
My bashes are often headbutts when they land.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Hauwke on January 30, 2017, 06:48:16 PM
My bashes are usually literal shoves for brawnier guys or leg sweeps for the more nimble folk.

Kicks are generally kicks though, using the kick command means you kick to me.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Miradus on January 30, 2017, 06:56:52 PM
I will randomize my kicks between kicks or a knee to the gut or something similar. I dislike NOT emoting something in combat.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Hauwke on January 30, 2017, 07:51:45 PM
People who dont emote during combat bug me, those who emote very poorly bug me even more.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: perfecto on January 30, 2017, 11:41:14 PM
Question about the new "cure" helpfile

Cure                                                          (Miscellaneous)

   Cures in Zalanthas come in many forms.  The most prevalent are mashes,
tablets, and vials.  Each has their own properties.

   Mashes are made by combining herbs, which can then be consumed immediately.

   Tablets can be crafted directly from a mash with the same curative
properties and then eaten later.

Does this mean that our Mashes will decompose and go away like the food code works now?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: WanderingOoze on February 13, 2017, 01:56:32 PM
-Fixed bug that allowed dyeing of food items if the order of the food and dye items were in correct order.


So...no green hawk eggs and chalton for us, Sam.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: lostinspace on February 13, 2017, 02:10:15 PM
-Fixed bug that allowed dyeing of food items if the order of the food and dye items were in correct order.


So...no green hawk eggs and chalton for us, Sam.

Yeah, I'm all for dying food! I know it was a bug, but can we get it turned into a feature? Cooking is a fun skill that adds a lot to a character imo, and I'm sure nobles would love to have bread baked in their house colors for parties!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: WanderingOoze on February 13, 2017, 02:34:02 PM
-Fixed bug that allowed dyeing of food items if the order of the food and dye items were in correct order.


So...no green hawk eggs and chalton for us, Sam.

Yeah, I'm all for dying food! I know it was a bug, but can we get it turned into a feature? Cooking is a fun skill that adds a lot to a character imo, and I'm sure nobles would love to have bread baked in their house colors for parties!

Yeah, that would be pretty fun.
 
Also, it would be kind of cool to be able to colorize according
to what seasonings were used. Like if you were having thing,
and one person wanted *certain seasoning* but another didn't
much care for that particular flavor, and wanted *other seasoning* instead on their steak. Oh, alright. All the -red- steaks are *this* and the -blue- steaks are *other*.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Hauwke on February 13, 2017, 03:53:56 PM
Yeah but then you have blue steak to serve your buddies. Thats going to get you some wierd looks the first few times you pull that trick.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on February 13, 2017, 04:01:08 PM
Being able to color your food is an interesting idea - but not with the kind of dye you would use on wood or cloth, and not with the dyeing skill.  Interesting idea to use with the cooking skill later, maybe.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: lostinspace on February 13, 2017, 05:10:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rk-ukXVnCQ
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Lizzie on February 13, 2017, 05:21:04 PM
Being able to color your food is an interesting idea - but not with the kind of dye you would use on wood or cloth, and not with the dyeing skill.  Interesting idea to use with the cooking skill later, maybe.

I get the "not with the dyeing skill" part, but why not with the dye you use on wood or cloth? Those packets are made by crushing herbs and flowers, many of which end up in seasonings, flavorants for booze, or even consumed as is.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: BadSkeelz on February 13, 2017, 05:25:51 PM
Some dyes are made from rocks.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Akaramu on February 13, 2017, 05:36:41 PM
I get the "not with the dyeing skill" part, but why not with the dye you use on wood or cloth? Those packets are made by crushing herbs and flowers, many of which end up in seasonings, flavorants for booze, or even consumed as is.

I always assumed that the finished dyes include other, virtual ingredients that don't go well with food. The dye packets even have 'bitter' in their sdesc, I have a feeling they'd be at least slightly poisonous.

Actually, I think many crafting recipes - not just dyes - include virtual ingredients. Like... tanning.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: BadSkeelz on February 13, 2017, 05:44:49 PM
I for one would be OK with dying food with current dyes if they delivered negative taste messages or even poisoned the eater. These are vanity items for characters with more time and money than sense, after all. Let the plebs worry about a simple case of poisoning!

I believe we already have some precedent with this with Gypsy Pepper Belly syndrome.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: lostinspace on February 13, 2017, 06:59:44 PM
Cooking is a skill I love because every character gets it, and I use it almost every time I log into the game. I get why they don't want people putting clothes dye in food, but I also think coloring food would be cool.

I would be willing to help make this happen, if they need recipes and items for food coloring I could write descriptions and such. Would be cool if the dyes were made by brewing and used in cooking, but that's not really my call.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Delirium on February 13, 2017, 07:58:35 PM
lol, blue steak? no thanks. That's a little too much WoW in my armageddon.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: BadSkeelz on February 13, 2017, 07:59:24 PM
Raptor nuggets are blue.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: RogueGunslinger on February 13, 2017, 08:36:03 PM
I wonder if scrab steaks are yellow after cooking.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Shoka Windrunner on February 13, 2017, 09:05:22 PM
I wonder if scrab steaks are yellow after cooking.

I think they are when you burn them...so maybe?  Less I'm wrong.   :D
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Jingo on February 13, 2017, 09:14:36 PM
Red food coloring comes from ground up beetles.

True fact.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: azuriolinist on July 10, 2017, 07:43:17 AM
Quote
- The unhitch command will now take the argument 'all', unhitching all mounts your character has hitched to them.

Awesome!

Could this include unhitching all followers (excluding those shadowing)?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Lizzie on July 10, 2017, 08:40:40 AM
Unhitch all is a great idea, especially if you picked up a spare and didn't title it.

But a player-initiated fix to this would be: TITLE YOUR MOUNTS AND USE THOSE TITLES.
unitch dinner/hitch lunch/unhitch shitbug/hitch stankbutt
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: whitt on July 10, 2017, 08:50:28 AM
does unhitch all?  Unhitch all the players following you too?  Please oh please?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Lizzie on July 10, 2017, 08:55:18 AM
does unhitch all?  Unhitch all the players following you too?  Please oh please?

I'd like a "disband" command to - well - disband your group when you're the leader. It's old-school H&S but it works.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Is Friday on July 10, 2017, 10:13:08 AM
FINALLY.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Delirium on July 10, 2017, 10:21:12 AM
does unhitch all?  Unhitch all the players following you too?  Please oh please?

I don't see why it wouldn't.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: lairos on July 10, 2017, 10:45:09 AM
does unhitch all?  Unhitch all the players following you too?  Please oh please?

I don't see why it wouldn't.

How does this amazing blanket command affect those who are "shadowing" someone or does it?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on July 10, 2017, 10:47:21 AM
Probably still can't unhitch what you can't see?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on July 12, 2017, 07:08:49 PM
Unhitch all only affects mounts that are hitched to your character.

Doesn't affect non-mounts, visible or not.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Delirium on July 12, 2017, 07:09:43 PM
Drat.

Still awesome!

... but, drat.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on July 12, 2017, 10:33:32 PM
I would rather unhitch people.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: TheGoose on July 13, 2017, 09:53:33 AM
Sometimes I try to go up to lose the group. Works.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on July 13, 2017, 10:18:49 AM
My concern is that people that only want to unhitch their mounts would keep unhitching people following them, who then have to re-follow.

Which is the more common scenario, unhitching mounts or people following?

How often is unhitch used to stop characters from following?

How effective is it when they can just re-follow?

Would a different command be better than 'unhitch'?

Maybe with different arguments?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nauta on July 13, 2017, 10:23:00 AM
Situations where unhitch followers is useful:

1) A leader of a clan needs to go into a meeting with some noble and leave all the minions in the hallways -- especially if the minions are all hoodsup.

2) You've forgotten who followed you into the room and want to logout or leave on your own.

3) A battle erupts, and you need to split quick, e.g., to position yourself as a flank or whatever.

I like unhitch all|mounts|followers.  (I assume it won't unhitch shadows just as regular unhitch won't; you still have to flee self to shake a shadow.)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: whitt on July 13, 2017, 10:29:40 AM
Which is the more common scenario, unhitching mounts or people following?

How effective is it when they can just re-follow?

Would a different command be better than 'unhitch'?

Only one class, to the best of my knowledge, can hitch multiple mounts in the first place.  So certainly, I'd say, it's more common for someone to be Pied Pipering a group of people, especially during RPTs and not necessarily know who all is following them.  Thereby resulting in folks yo-yoing rooms as the leader leaves and three people that were in the middle of a conversation or something leaves without knowing they're still being followed.

I don't think re-follow is the problem.  I think the problem is greater trying to unhitch everyone in the room before you, say, go to the estate gates to usher in the next batch of guests.

Disband would seem like a reasonable command word for a command that would unhitch all followers, but not mounts.  But then you'd have the awkwardness of still needing to use unhitch Amos for individuals if you didn't want to ditch everyone.  So maybe go with your argument list?  And let folks alias the unhitch all followers command if they like?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Synthesis on July 13, 2017, 01:25:19 PM
I don't think you should be able to issue a command to stop people from following you, unless that person has been legitimately identified as linkdead--especially not if you can't even see them.

If someone is following you and you don't want them to, you already have a range of mundane options:  1) you can ask them to stop; 2) you can "flee self;" 3) you can start running and try to outrun them; or 4) you can initiate some kind of combat.

The fact you can unhitch followers one by one is already pretty sketchy, and absolutely gets abused when you're aggressively following someone.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nauta on July 13, 2017, 01:30:13 PM
I don't think you should be able to issue a command to stop people from following you, unless that person has been legitimately identified as linkdead--especially not if you can't even see them.

If someone is following you and you don't want them to, you already have a range of mundane options:  1) you can ask them to stop; 2) you can "flee self;" 3) you can start running and try to outrun them; or 4) you can initiate some kind of combat.

The fact you can unhitch followers one by one is already pretty sketchy, and absolutely gets abused when you're aggressively following someone.

unhitch <target> currently allows you to "stop leading another visible character."  The proposal, I take it, is to just extend this to stop leading all visible characters (unhitch followers).  If we didn't have this ability (to unhitch individuals), then things would be pretty irritating: a lot of PCs go on breaks, afk, etc., without going link dead while hitched.  Being able to unhitch everyone visible following you would be a convenience to save typing.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Synthesis on July 13, 2017, 01:39:38 PM
I don't think you should be able to issue a command to stop people from following you, unless that person has been legitimately identified as linkdead--especially not if you can't even see them.

If someone is following you and you don't want them to, you already have a range of mundane options:  1) you can ask them to stop; 2) you can "flee self;" 3) you can start running and try to outrun them; or 4) you can initiate some kind of combat.

The fact you can unhitch followers one by one is already pretty sketchy, and absolutely gets abused when you're aggressively following someone.

unhitch <target> currently allows you to "stop leading another visible character."  The proposal, I take it, is to just extend this to stop leading all visible characters (unhitch followers).

I'm aware of that.  I'm saying that "unhitch target" is already kind of a bad idea that is probably only there for convenience, since the code apparently can't tell very well when someone goes linkdead.  Doubling down on it is a terrible idea.

If three raiders are following you, there's absolutely no reason why you should be able to "unhitch all" and then spam movement commands, knowing that reaction time and latency will be on your side.

I suppose it could be usable if they recoded "shadow" to be a parallel command to "follow," such that if you are "shadowing" someone, they cannot lose you by simply using the unhitch command, even if you are visible.  This would rework "shadow" into a command for "intentionally and aggressively following" someone, and would force the followed person to react via one of the aforementioned methods.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: roughneck on July 13, 2017, 01:44:28 PM

If someone is following you and you don't want them to, you already have a range of mundane options:  1) you can ask them to stop; 2) you can "flee self;" 3) you can start running and try to outrun them; or 4) you can initiate some kind of combat.

The fact you can unhitch followers one by one is already pretty sketchy, and absolutely gets abused when you're aggressively following someone.


Chase command please.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nauta on July 13, 2017, 01:44:59 PM
Ah, that's a good point.  One idea I had might go along with this:

nosave unhitch
nosave follow
follow <target> <self>

follow <target> <self> would allow you to force target to follow you, if they have nosave follow on. (Useful when some Runner goes AFK in the desert.)

If you have nosave unhitch on, you will allow someone to unhitch you (i.e. stop leading you).
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: whitt on July 13, 2017, 02:01:20 PM
[moving to Code Related Questions]
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Delirium on July 13, 2017, 02:08:23 PM

Maybe with different arguments?
  • "unhitch mounts"
  • "unhitch followers"
  • "unhitch all"

I like this, it keeps things simple. The RPT scenario is the biggest one, say you're leading 5+ people and they all emote obeying your command to remain behind but a few of them forgot to type "follow self"....

Things get awkward. As for "aggressive following" uh.... this doesn't stop that, and it's... kind of a silly concern IMO.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: WanderingOoze on July 13, 2017, 02:13:35 PM
Or when you havent seen someone for IG days and forgot
they were following you before and you happen to walk through the tavern or something and drag them along on accident.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Black on July 14, 2017, 11:17:23 AM
I like all the bug fixes. Unhitch all sounds pretty awesome too if you travel a lot with groups and need to hitch more than one, or are taming a lot of them.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: TheGoose on July 14, 2017, 03:55:53 PM
Yeah, the follow thing is pretty annoying. I drag/get dragged by people a lot. Conversely, I've never had a need to unhitch all my mounts at once. Besides, if I leave a mount behind, I drop the reins automatically. Not so with people.

If it was a one or the other scenario, I would say make 'unhitch all' affect visible followers, not mounts.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on July 15, 2017, 06:20:16 AM
Yeah, the follow thing is pretty annoying. I drag/get dragged by people a lot. Conversely, I've never had a need to unhitch all my mounts at once. Besides, if I leave a mount behind, I drop the reins automatically. Not so with people.

If it was a one or the other scenario, I would say make 'unhitch all' affect visible followers, not mounts.

+1
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Tisiphone on July 15, 2017, 07:15:29 AM
Yeah, the follow thing is pretty annoying. I drag/get dragged by people a lot. Conversely, I've never had a need to unhitch all my mounts at once. Besides, if I leave a mount behind, I drop the reins automatically. Not so with people.

Not sure I like this idea, but how about, if you are ever out of the same room as someone, you stop following them? It seems potentially inconvenient for those 'we all got separated in the desert' moments, but then again I imagine many people are like me - I compulsively type 'follow <leader>' once I'm back in the same room again, despite the fact that it's technically unnecessary, so I wouldn't notice much disadvantage.

That way, if someone manages to escape your shadow*, or goes over a cliff, or is done having a meeting with you and goes away only to walk past an RL hour and a half later when you forgot to 'follow self', you won't just pick them back up automatically.

*In this case you probably should, I think. Oh well.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Lizzie on July 15, 2017, 09:46:06 AM
This is why I prefer to lead, and not follow. In most cases - I'll remember to unhitch, or ask everyone else to stop following, if I plan on doing something other than whatever it was that made them follow me in the first place. But SO MANY TIMES I follow the leader of the group, and they start wandering for who the hell knows what reason, when we were following for some completely different reason. If they're too fast for me to type "follow self" I might just type SOUTH... so that I stop following them while they keep moving west or whatever. But it doesn't always work out that way.  Or worse - I'll be following Amos - who then forgets I'm following him, and he hooks up with and starts following Malik, who has plans that have nothing to do with me, and while I'm waying someone because Amos asked me to - Malik starts dragging us all over creation and the command delay prevents me from giving the way message OR stop following, til we're halfway across the city.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Harmless on July 15, 2017, 09:52:01 AM
I can flee self to escape a shadow? Interesting, didnt know that, and I have played for years.

Flee self always seemed like a command useful mostly for getting yo ass killed in a situation full of danger to me; run off a cliff, bump into the line of sight of an aggressive beast, etc.

And I agree that a command to ditch all followers would be a handy addition and doesn't seem like it would be prone to much abuse. Anything that saves headaches and typing struggles is a good thing.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Vox on July 17, 2017, 10:58:41 PM

http://armageddon.org/help/view/chase (http://armageddon.org/help/view/chase)

This is AWESOME!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on September 13, 2017, 09:30:38 AM
Tools degrade slower, now? Aw.

I guess if you have an awesome quality tool, it probably shouldn't be mangled and useless after you fail to polish a gemstone five times.

I can put scan and listen into my prompt? Usually I know just by how much stun I have left, but I don't always remember to check it! Awesome!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: 650Booger on September 13, 2017, 03:23:42 PM
no delay on pick checks will make some folks very happy!  not me though.  I swear.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on September 13, 2017, 03:32:31 PM
no delay on pick checks will make some folks very happy!  not me though.  I swear.

Hoping it cuts down on the "pick flower plant" .... wait.... wait.... wait..... wait... wait... OH MAN THATS THE WRONG SYNTAX
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: James de Monet on September 13, 2017, 07:57:39 PM
Quote from: Nessalin
-Prompt will now take %p as an argument to indicate that Scan is active (when Scan is turned off nothing is displayed).
-Prompt will now take %P as an argument to indicate that Listen is active (when Listen is turned off nothing is displayed).

Nice!

Quote from: Nessalin
-Typing 'prompt' alone will now output your character's current prompt settings.

(http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/Holy+crap+this+is+amazing+_019b536b8def1acec0ab2f66ce11537d.jpg)

(My prompt is three lines long.  Recreating it is the worst part of every new character.)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on September 13, 2017, 08:33:07 PM
This week's changes were mined almost entirely from the bugs/ideas entries that players type in game.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Dahlia on September 13, 2017, 10:16:25 PM
Thank you Nessalin!  These changes are amazingly helpful!   ;D
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Fredd on September 29, 2017, 06:38:22 PM
So City skills are now criminal skills? Even though vasts portions of the populations that have them are using those skills somewhat legally, if not completely so?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on September 29, 2017, 06:41:11 PM
So City skills are now criminal skills? Even though vasts portions of the populations that have them are using those skills somewhat legally, if not completely so?

I feel like this needs more context, because the only thing I THINK you're talking about is the new Chase code?

Nevermind, I see it.

Quote from: Brokkr
Quick Update!

I wanted to let folks know that this project has not fallen by the wayside.

On taking up some of the work the first thing I did was a corporate style re-org to rename the home advantages.  What used to be called city, wilderness and general we are now calling criminal, wilderness and city, in order to better reflect the underlying competencies and chunks of population, without changing anything about the underlying structure!

After this impressive win, I took a break for a few weeks.

But seriously, work progresses.  I'm going to leave this topic locked for now, will reopen when there is more to share!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on September 29, 2017, 06:43:21 PM
That all being said, I think its just reorganizing some of the "general" skills into "criminal". Steal is a criminal skill, but I don't think it was categorized as a "city" skill before.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Brokkr on September 30, 2017, 03:20:40 AM
Actually just the opposite.  "City" was populated with skills like steal, pick, sneak, etc. that were, you know, typically used by criminals, although not exclusively so.  But we can discuss later, when there is more to discuss than just labeling the categories in a way such that you have a better idea of the type of skills in them.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Nathvaan on October 17, 2017, 05:05:04 PM
This thread is only for discussion of release notes made.  Not all staff announcements.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Grapes on October 23, 2017, 11:04:41 AM
OMG, this most recent release notes... mind BLOWN. Good stuff!

EDIT: No, I'm not joking, these are good changes.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Armaddict on October 23, 2017, 11:59:17 AM
Quote
-Modification to make it so a character wouldn't be 'caught' when latching and unlatching their own gear.

Does this mean there will be no fails with it, as well?  This could be detrimental to some who don't use it for thievery, with no way to improve.

If I'm misreading the change, just...play a fiddle at me.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on October 23, 2017, 12:12:27 PM
nerf thieves
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Armaddict on October 23, 2017, 01:05:54 PM
nerf thieves

Not sure if that was tongue in cheek at me or not, but in explanation, there is at least one branch out of sleight of hand for non-thieving class.  So if they can't improve, then that becomes...problematic.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Grapes on October 23, 2017, 02:32:04 PM
Armaddict likes to watch. Although, he does bring up a valid point, however, latching and unlatching are relatively new features, and paths existed before for skilling up.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: James de Monet on October 23, 2017, 05:01:35 PM
If itís possible without giving too much of the mechanics away, can we get a little more detail about this:

Quote from: Nathvaan
-Modification to add more detailed logging with regards to criminal behavior.

Iím kind of assuming this is in regards to IC criminal behavior.  If so, what prompted the change?  Is this an anti-code abuse measure, or a realism measure, or just for clan staff awareness, or...?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: lostinspace on October 23, 2017, 06:33:04 PM
Quote
-Modification to make it so a character wouldn't be 'caught' when latching and unlatching their own gear.

Does this mean there will be no fails with it, as well?  This could be detrimental to some who don't use it for thievery, with no way to improve.

If I'm misreading the change, just...play a fiddle at me.

Side question, does this mean that I can latch/unlatch my gear successfully without an equivalent skill?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Aruven on October 23, 2017, 07:01:36 PM
Prompt customizations ; Epic!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: evilcabbage on October 23, 2017, 08:57:37 PM
i love reading release notes.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: valeria on October 24, 2017, 07:31:08 AM
... This could be detrimental to some who don't use it for thievery, with no way to improve. ...

Even assuming that you can't fail while latching/unlatching your own gear, there are other sleight of hand (http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Skill%20Sleight%20Of%20Hand) skills, such as palm and slip.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Jihelu on October 24, 2017, 10:16:11 AM
"Does this mean there will be no fails with it, as well?  This could be detrimental to some who don't use it for thievery, with no way to improve."
How does being able to open your own gear without being tackled mean you can't fail?
You are also aware silently drawing weapons, taking items out of your own pack (Opening your pack was the only way to get tackled), and opening and closing things also use the sleight of hand skill and will not get you crim coded?


"Side question, does this mean that I can latch/unlatch my gear successfully without an equivalent skill?"
I don't know if lacking sleight of hand will let you attempt sleight of hand abilities, but if you can then there is always a chance. A low as fuck chance, but a chance. If I recall not having steal makes stealing impossible so it could be like that.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: ChibiTama on October 24, 2017, 02:30:34 PM
I never had an issue with latching/unlatching as long as I didn't use 'unlatch talia pack'. I just used 'unlatch pack'.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nauta on October 24, 2017, 02:38:57 PM
Quote
-Modification to make it so a character wouldn't be 'caught' when latching and unlatching their own gear.

Does this mean there will be no fails with it, as well?  This could be detrimental to some who don't use it for thievery, with no way to improve.

If I'm misreading the change, just...play a fiddle at me.

Side question, does this mean that I can latch/unlatch my gear successfully without an equivalent skill?

Isn't the writing on the tin on this one?  Used to be that when you unlatch your own pouch, and fail, some half-giant soldier nearby would grab you and toss you into jail.  Sounds like they fixed this.

Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: lostinspace on October 24, 2017, 04:02:02 PM
Quote
-Modification to make it so a character wouldn't be 'caught' when latching and unlatching their own gear.
Does this mean there will be no fails with it, as well?  This could be detrimental to some who don't use it for thievery, with no way to improve.
If I'm misreading the change, just...play a fiddle at me.
Side question, does this mean that I can latch/unlatch my gear successfully without an equivalent skill?
Isn't the writing on the tin on this one?  Used to be that when you unlatch your own pouch, and fail, some half-giant soldier nearby would grab you and toss you into jail.  Sounds like they fixed this.

Oh, this is crim code related. I didn't realize unlatching your own gear could trigger guards, and I've been done it on a few characters without reprecussion. I guess I was just lucky, because I honestly thought unlatching your own stuff just didn't trigger crim code.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on October 24, 2017, 04:39:13 PM
And now it won't! (It was an issue in one specific locale in the game, so if you weren't there, you wouldn't have noticed it).
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Grapes on October 24, 2017, 06:13:05 PM
And now it won't! (It was an issue in one specific locale in the game, so if you weren't there, you wouldn't have noticed it).

It's tragically hilarious when it happens in areas where the guards DON'T ask why the jail can't be moved closer to the criminals.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Armaddict on October 25, 2017, 04:36:47 PM
That was the nature of my question, guys.  I was trying to make sure that wasn't overlooked, because these are purposely vague.  I wanted to know if 'This doesn't happen anymore' translated to failures no longer occurring in the way that makes the skill advance.

I even gave permission to give me the violin if, codewise, it was a silly concern.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Nathvaan on October 26, 2017, 09:54:16 AM
If itís possible without giving too much of the mechanics away, can we get a little more detail about this:

Quote from: Nathvaan
-Modification to add more detailed logging with regards to criminal behavior.

Iím kind of assuming this is in regards to IC criminal behavior.  If so, what prompted the change?  Is this an anti-code abuse measure, or a realism measure, or just for clan staff awareness, or...?

Yes, IC criminal behavior and staff awareness for sure. The logging that was in place didn't fully indicate what crime was committed as well as a few other useful tidbits.  Basically, adding this to the logging will make it easier for Admin staff members to research who did what crime, when and where etc.
 
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: evilcabbage on October 26, 2017, 10:01:01 AM
If itís possible without giving too much of the mechanics away, can we get a little more detail about this:

Quote from: Nathvaan
-Modification to add more detailed logging with regards to criminal behavior.

Iím kind of assuming this is in regards to IC criminal behavior.  If so, what prompted the change?  Is this an anti-code abuse measure, or a realism measure, or just for clan staff awareness, or...?

Yes, IC criminal behavior and staff awareness for sure. The logging that was in place didn't fully indicate what crime was committed as well as a few other useful tidbits.  Basically, adding this to the logging will make it easier for Admin staff members to research who did what crime, when and where etc.

well that sounds just fucking useful! well done there!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Nathvaan on October 26, 2017, 08:50:04 PM
Quote
-Modification to make it so a character wouldn't be 'caught' when latching and unlatching their own gear.

Does this mean there will be no fails with it, as well?  This could be detrimental to some who don't use it for thievery, with no way to improve.

If I'm misreading the change, just...play a fiddle at me.

Side question, does this mean that I can latch/unlatch my gear successfully without an equivalent skill?

To address all the questions about latch/unlatching minor change.  It shouldn't effect skill progression in any way unless you were using latch and unlatch on yourself to skill up by catching yourself, that's just silly.  There is no intent in any way to nerf thieves but as stated to make sure that people don't get arrested by catching themselves doing sneaky things.  If it turns out that there are unexpected side effects, rest assured the code will be tweaked a bit more as needed.

While we all love a chase scene with the Benny Hill theme in the background it's a bit absurd to catch yourself! (I literally sometimes start playing that theme when the Law starts chasing a criminal and I am watching!)

This change is akin to the code that disallows you to steal coins from yourself.

Hope that clarifies things!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Armaddict on October 26, 2017, 09:13:28 PM
Ohhh, I think I just read it in a different way.

I thought it was saying no one -else- could notice when you were latching and unlatching your own gear, which made it sound like failures were gone unless you were using it on someone else.

MAH BAD.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: James de Monet on October 27, 2017, 08:17:27 PM
Yes, IC criminal behavior and staff awareness for sure. The logging that was in place didn't fully indicate what crime was committed as well as a few other useful tidbits.  Basically, adding this to the logging will make it easier for Admin staff members to research who did what crime, when and where etc.

Ah, cool.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Molten Heart on October 30, 2017, 03:35:50 PM
Quote
(Nessalin)
-Allanak's gates will now be opened/closed depending on the time of day after a reboot.  This should fix the issue where the game would reboot during IC daytime but the gates would be closed.

Great addition. This would also be cool to add to the gates of Red Storm Village, if it hasn't already.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Akaramu on October 30, 2017, 05:00:57 PM
The release notes look neat. I wonder if it will become possible for resourceful Indies to acquire wagons at some point...  ;D
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Grapes on October 30, 2017, 06:38:32 PM
Awesome stuff.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Hauwke on October 30, 2017, 07:58:14 PM
I envision guarding a wagon across the desert will be suddenly a teeny bit harder! Yay!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Fredd on October 30, 2017, 09:15:02 PM
I envision guarding a wagon across the desert will be suddenly a teeny bit harder! Yay!

using the guard command on said wagon makes more sense now!

A Mekillot attacks a wagon
A day-1 runner leaps to a wagons protection!

A day-1 runner rolls a new pc
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: SuchDragonWow on October 31, 2017, 02:53:23 AM
I like the prompt updates.  Thanks for those.  If it's no hassle, it'd be cool to also have:

Hunger
Thirst
What you're watching
Cloaked
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: HavokBlue on October 31, 2017, 05:13:30 AM
I like the direction of the wagon code updates. I hope it is indicative of broader plans to possibly make wagons more accessible to PCs who can afford them. If they're not invincible death fortresses, it opens up a lot of possibilities.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: valeria on October 31, 2017, 07:29:43 AM
I like the prompt updates.  Thanks for those.  If it's no hassle, it'd be cool to also have:

Hunger
Thirst
What you're watching
Cloaked

Level of drunkenness
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: ShaLeah on October 31, 2017, 08:59:35 AM
I envision guarding a wagon across the desert will be suddenly a teeny bit harder! Yay!

using the guard command on said wagon makes more sense now!

A Mekillot attacks a wagon
A day-1 runner leaps to a wagons protection!

A day-1 runner rolls a new pc

Wagons can now be attached?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Pale Horse on October 31, 2017, 09:51:09 AM
I envision guarding a wagon across the desert will be suddenly a teeny bit harder! Yay!

using the guard command on said wagon makes more sense now!

A Mekillot attacks a wagon
A day-1 runner leaps to a wagons protection!

A day-1 runner rolls a new pc

Wagons can now be attached?

They're the newest, latest accessory put out by Kadius.  Never show up to a party without one.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: ShaLeah on October 31, 2017, 10:07:15 AM
I envision guarding a wagon across the desert will be suddenly a teeny bit harder! Yay!

using the guard command on said wagon makes more sense now!

A Mekillot attacks a wagon
A day-1 runner leaps to a wagons protection!

A day-1 runner rolls a new pc

Wagons can now be attached?

They're the newest, latest accessory put out by Kadius.  Never show up to a party without one.

Touche.

Attacked, I meant ATTACKED obviously. Brat.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on October 31, 2017, 10:09:57 AM
To answer your question though: no

By the notes, it sounds like a standard wear and tear will occur on wagons and require actual repairs. Currently by an NPC script, hopefully soon by a PC as well.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Draechen on November 02, 2017, 12:56:03 PM
With regard to the skill level perceived drop, does that mean a guild that could at one point have submitted a custom craft will no longer be able to?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on November 02, 2017, 01:08:39 PM
With regard to the skill level perceived drop, does that mean a guild that could at one point have submitted a custom craft will no longer be able to?

Good question!  Those that could submit a custom craft in the past can continue doing so.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: HavokBlue on November 02, 2017, 03:59:42 PM
To answer your question though: no

By the notes, it sounds like a standard wear and tear will occur on wagons and require actual repairs. Currently by an NPC script, hopefully soon by a PC as well.

My reading is that this could be used to simulate wear and tear but will more likely be used DM style to apply damage to a wagon that suffers a mekillot attack, or a gith fire bomb. This makes wagons far more "playable" because they stop being invulnerable and staff don't have to rewrite room descriptions every time they want to simulate wagon damage.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Molten Heart on November 02, 2017, 04:10:48 PM
Would the wagon repair code be applicable to any of the currently wrecked wagons in the game? I'm meaning the ones littering the base of the Shield Wall, and the others scattered around. While it'd be sad and tragic to lose any of them, as they provide shelter for all kinds of interesting people and encounters, it'd be cool to have the possibility of repairing or salvaging one's own wagon should it accidentally fall into a shallow sinkhole, or something.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: lostinspace on November 02, 2017, 07:20:08 PM
Would the wagon repair code be applicable to any of the currently wrecked wagons in the game? I'm meaning the ones littering the base of the Shield Wall, and the others scattered around. While it'd be sad and tragic to lose any of them, as they provide shelter for all kinds of interesting people and encounters, it'd be cool to have the possibility of repairing or salvaging one's own wagon should it accidentally fall into a shallow sinkhole, or something.

If they can be repaired, then maybe the others become stationary once they break down.
If the wagons happen to move around every now and then that only sounds like a good thing to me.
If Kadius repairs them all and leaves them in their wagon yard to stagnate for 50 ic years, that sounds terrible.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: mansa on November 02, 2017, 10:08:15 PM
Fredd:

Protector has master shield use.
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Protector
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Namino on November 02, 2017, 10:19:37 PM
My understanding is that skills have ALWAYS been standardized to the maximum value a character can attain. So a shield use value of '50' will always show as master for someone who has a 50/50 in it. Protector had master shield not because protector went to 100, but because it went close enough to warrior maximum shield use to also qualify as master. What is happening now is that, with the new additional guilds, the maximums are changing. So a new guild is coming in with slashing that caps at, say, 100 instead of 90, now everyone who was at journeyman might see themselves back down at apprentice because their skill level is being divided by the new maximum, not the old one.

The actual way skills are being calculated didn't change, just the hypothetical denominators as new caps are put in for guilds we don't have yet. Shield use hasn't dropped under master for me likely because the new guilds still have the same cap for Shield Use.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: seidhr on November 03, 2017, 12:03:00 AM
My understanding is that skills have ALWAYS been standardized to the maximum value a character can attain. So a shield use value of '50' will always show as master for someone who has a 50/50 in it. Protector had master shield not because protector went to 100, but because it went close enough to warrior maximum shield use to also qualify as master. What is happening now is that, with the new additional guilds, the maximums are changing. So a new guild is coming in with slashing that caps at, say, 100 instead of 90, now everyone who was at journeyman might see themselves back down at apprentice because their skill level is being divided by the new maximum, not the old one.

The actual way skills are being calculated didn't change, just the hypothetical denominators as new caps are put in for guilds we don't have yet. Shield use hasn't dropped under master for me likely because the new guilds still have the same cap for Shield Use.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong.

On the contrary, you are quite accurate.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Mercy on November 03, 2017, 01:01:54 AM
My understanding is that skills have ALWAYS been standardized to the maximum value a character can attain. So a shield use value of '50' will always show as master for someone who has a 50/50 in it. Protector had master shield not because protector went to 100, but because it went close enough to warrior maximum shield use to also qualify as master. What is happening now is that, with the new additional guilds, the maximums are changing. So a new guild is coming in with slashing that caps at, say, 100 instead of 90, now everyone who was at journeyman might see themselves back down at apprentice because their skill level is being divided by the new maximum, not the old one.

The actual way skills are being calculated didn't change, just the hypothetical denominators as new caps are put in for guilds we don't have yet. Shield use hasn't dropped under master for me likely because the new guilds still have the same cap for Shield Use.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong.

On the contrary, you are quite accurate.

I am confused by this.

If a guild caps out at 50 shield use, but the cap for shield use in the game is 90, wouldn't 50 NOT show as master when you achieve 50 shield use? It'll just stop increasing in skill level name. Journeyman or whatever it is.

If one person's shield use has decreased, wouldn't that mean shield use has been given a new cap (e.g. 90 to 95) during this change. Not that another guild also has been given the cap of 90? Just because master hasn't gone down for some, it doesn't mean they still are at the total cap across the game, just close enough to still show as master? Or can that not be clarified? I'm assuming master doesn't happen at 90/90, but within a range of 90 so there's still room for improvement even though you are the best of the best, skill-wise.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Hauwke on November 03, 2017, 01:06:41 AM
If the max is 90, master would show up at I assume somewhere around 80.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Synthesis on November 03, 2017, 01:47:13 AM
Apprentice is about 20% of global maximum

Journeyman is about 40%

Advanced is about 60%

Master is about 80%

You can be "master" and still kinda suck.  E.g. shield use and parry seem to be capped hella low even for warriors (even though they presumably hold the global maxima...because you can master them in a hot minute compared to everything else), and some guilds are capped -exactly- at the master point.  E.g. "master" hide for a pickpocket is substantially less useful than "master" hide for a burglar.

If the global shield use cap is at like...50%, then subguild protector could have a cap anywhere from 40% to 50% and still be "master."  If the global cap for a particular skill is 100%, you could be 20 points off the maximum and still be a "master," but obviously 20 points difference is a yuuuuuge chaaaaaasm of playability for some skills, especially skills like "steal," where failure = instant, permanent PC aggro.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Vex on November 03, 2017, 02:27:37 AM
Does this mean, the potential for some guilds has gone up?

Or, should we anticipate karma-required guilds, that are more powerful than normal ones?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Synthesis on November 03, 2017, 02:54:23 AM
Does this mean, the potential for some guilds has gone up?

Or, should we anticipate karma-required guilds, that are more powerful than normal ones?

The potential for some skills for some of the new hybrid-system guilds is higher than the current highest points for existing guilds.

I've never read anything about Staff making any of these mundane hybrid-system guilds karma-required.

My guess is that they're slightly beefing the weapon skill caps and/or parry/shield use caps on whatever the Tanky McTankface class is going to be, but...that's just a guess.  (Weapon skills are already highly compressed, so it would make sense to spread them out a bit to the upside in order to provide real value for the specialists without nerfing non-specialists and having to re-balance every damn mob in the game to account for it.  Currently, there isn't a whole lot of difference between a max warrior and a max ranger in terms of raw melee PVE DPS.)

P.S. Staff this is also a suggestion if that's not what is already happening.  ;)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Brokkr on November 03, 2017, 11:46:53 AM
My understanding is that skills have ALWAYS been standardized to the maximum value a character can attain. So a shield use value of '50' will always show as master for someone who has a 50/50 in it. Protector had master shield not because protector went to 100, but because it went close enough to warrior maximum shield use to also qualify as master. What is happening now is that, with the new additional guilds, the maximums are changing. So a new guild is coming in with slashing that caps at, say, 100 instead of 90, now everyone who was at journeyman might see themselves back down at apprentice because their skill level is being divided by the new maximum, not the old one.

The actual way skills are being calculated didn't change, just the hypothetical denominators as new caps are put in for guilds we don't have yet. Shield use hasn't dropped under master for me likely because the new guilds still have the same cap for Shield Use.

Or maybe I'm totally wrong.

Mostly right.  If only you didn't use the word "ALWAYS" you would have been good.  When visible skill levels were implemented, it was April Fools day, and who knows what those skill levels are based on!

But the week after April Fools day when they did them for real, they were all based off the same cap for all skills.  This was confusing, because a guild that was the absolute best at a skill might not see a skill level of 'master', which didn't make a lot of sense.  So it was changed after four or five days to be based off the highest skill level any guild obtained, becoming a relative measure to all other PCs, rather than an absolute measure on a 100 scale.

As for the questions, sounds like we need an AMA on the new classes!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: RogueGunslinger on November 05, 2017, 01:12:59 AM
Am I right in assuming this means skill NAME progression is slower? Like, getting from Journeyman to Advanced should take longer now, right?

Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Riev on November 05, 2017, 01:25:32 AM
Am I right in assuming this means skill NAME progression is slower? Like, getting from Journeyman to Advanced should take longer now, right?

For some skills, probably. Wheres before, "skinning" might've been Advanced at 60/100, now it is "advanced" at 75/100. So you'd have to get 15 more points or skillups or whatever before you see the new nomenclature.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Veselka on November 06, 2017, 07:26:44 PM
Are all the Class/Skill Names definite or just working names for now?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Miggy on November 06, 2017, 08:13:39 PM
Maybe it's just wishful thinking... but it seems like with all those different 'classes' now available, there should be lots of new skills added to the mix. Sounds like a lot of fun to me.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Grapes on November 11, 2017, 11:08:16 AM
"-bugfix in how offense / defense was calculated"

I'm incredibly curious what this MEANS, but I'm guessing it will be a find out IG thing.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: TheGoose on November 11, 2017, 11:12:37 AM
"-bugfix in how offense / defense was calculated"

I'm incredibly curious what this MEANS, but I'm guessing it will be a find out IG thing.

Kinda ominous, yeah? Kinda like going to yr pool and seeing a new sign reading 'tiny sharks expanded.'

...There were sharks? Tiny ones? Does this mean they're gone now? Or are there more of them? Or are they bigger now?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: chrisdcoulombe on November 11, 2017, 11:22:40 AM
Describe relative positions of ovals originating from a real algebraic curve and as limit cycles of a polynomial vector field on the plane.  Then you will have your answer.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Fredd on November 11, 2017, 11:35:00 AM
"-bugfix in how offense / defense was calculated"

I'm incredibly curious what this MEANS, but I'm guessing it will be a find out IG thing.

Kinda ominous, yeah? Kinda like going to yr pool and seeing a new sign reading 'tiny sharks expanded.'

...There were sharks? Tiny ones? Does this mean they're gone now? Or are there more of them? Or are they bigger now?

I also feel like that line could use expanding. Does that change combat in any way? Are Jozhals now the deadliest beasts in the land?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Is Friday on November 11, 2017, 11:37:38 AM
Finally, my PCs can get nipple tattoos.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Lizzie on November 11, 2017, 12:14:37 PM
Describe relative positions of ovals originating from a real algebraic curve and as limit cycles of a polynomial vector field on the plane.  Then you will have your answer.

42

I'm looking forward to seeing what kinds of new options we have for character creation!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Grapes on November 11, 2017, 12:25:03 PM
Finally, my PCs can get nipple tattoos.

My thoughts precisely.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Nathvaan on November 11, 2017, 01:40:34 PM
"-bugfix in how offense / defense was calculated"

I'm incredibly curious what this MEANS, but I'm guessing it will be a find out IG thing.

Typically when we list something as a bugfix it is, indeed, fixing a bug.  In this case it is something that looked to be miscalculating related to the guild revamp project so there shouldn't be any noticeable difference other than things are 'working as normal'.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Kankfly on November 12, 2017, 05:37:12 AM
Quote
-added new location descriptions (tattoo/scar/etc...) for
  nipples
  eyebrows
  navel
  pelvis
  tongue
  lips

Does this include right ear and left ear?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Molten Heart on November 12, 2017, 11:26:29 AM
Fortunately mounts are often easier to kill than their riders (at least in those extreme master rider situations)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Armaddict on November 12, 2017, 03:30:07 PM
I'd be okay with no-hands riding going away with few exceptions, but I know there would be those players who just only played those exceptions from then on with the insistence that it was the only state of viability.

However, yes, there were warnings put up with all this that there could be effects on skills while they were setting things up.  If it's permanent, I'd rather the rules be switched.  Riding with a shield is historically significant because of its feasibility and usefulness in mounted combat.  Riding with a bow is historically significant.  Riding as a mounted dual wielding berserker is not...so if we're gonna make it impossible for one style, lets at least make it the one that makes sense.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Hauwke on November 12, 2017, 03:36:55 PM
I'd be okay with no-hands riding going away with few exceptions, but I know there would be those players who just only played those exceptions from then on with the insistence that it was the only state of viability.

However, yes, there were warnings put up with all this that there could be effects on skills while they were setting things up.  If it's permanent, I'd rather the rules be switched.  Riding with a shield is historically significant because of its feasibility and usefulness in mounted combat.  Riding with a bow is historically significant.  Riding as a mounted dual wielding berserker is not...so if we're gonna make it impossible for one style, lets at least make it the one that makes sense.

10000% this.

Riding with a shield, is a time honored tradition in both the real world, and the Zalanthan world. Dual wielding? Not usually done in the real world but okay sure, fighting mounted while dual wielding? I would say stupendously difficult to do efficiently, but sure, lets go with it being possible.

I wouldnt care so much if nohands ride was completely removed, but dont remove only half of it. (the realistic half)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Grapes on November 12, 2017, 05:11:30 PM
Question, can you ride with just a shield, and draw your weapon as needed?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Namino on November 12, 2017, 05:32:39 PM
Question, can you ride with just a shield, and draw your weapon as needed?

I just logged in to test this, and you can still single-hand a shield and draw as necessary. The only issue then is that if you end up getting the worse end of the fight, you have to sheath your weapon before fleeing, presumably, or you will not move. However, this is at least livable for me.

I still am a bit concerned that this is happening after we were assured that the viability of older classes would not be undermined by new classes coming in, but in my opinion, this is inconvenient but not ruinous.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Grapes on November 12, 2017, 06:05:44 PM
Elves approve.

In response to the last post, not to be snarky, but for a long  time the mounted races, in melee combat, have had their cake and eaten it too. I understand it may be frustrating, but some of us have the world's smallest violin playing in the back of our heads. I understand it's less than ideal, and this makes encountering enemies, both PCs, and NPCs, in the wild more difficult... but the mounted races still have a huge set of advantages, which, as someone said, is kind of how it ought to be.

EDIT: Thanks for testing that, btw. Glad it's livable and not game-breaking. I do see your point.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Veselka on November 12, 2017, 07:21:37 PM
Question, can you ride with just a shield, and draw your weapon as needed?

I just logged in to test this, and you can still single-hand a shield and draw as necessary. The only issue then is that if you end up getting the worse end of the fight, you have to sheath your weapon before fleeing, presumably, or you will not move. However, this is at least livable for me.

I still am a bit concerned that this is happening after we were assured that the viability of older classes would not be undermined by new classes coming in, but in my opinion, this is inconvenient but not ruinous.

It's more a pain in the butt than ruinous. But it's still annoying to not get an announcement of it happening and having to figure it out. My current PC was able to ride with a shield and weapon for the last few months, so to suddenly not be able to is taking some adjustment.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on November 12, 2017, 07:32:41 PM
Moderated a few posts that were a tad snarky, others that varied between mis-leading and outright wrong, and others that delved a bit too deeply into uninformed opinions of game mechanics.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on November 12, 2017, 07:33:55 PM
Along with some other fixes identified from play testing, tomorrow should revert the functionality of riding with 0, 1, and 2 hands free for classic guilds to what it was before.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Feco on November 12, 2017, 07:52:11 PM
(bummer!)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: evilcabbage on November 12, 2017, 07:57:16 PM
(i can read these you know.)

good to see that this is being fixed and is clearly a bug, not the end of the world some people made it out to be. was this just an unintentional side effect of the new guilds?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Veselka on November 12, 2017, 08:15:38 PM
Along with some other fixes identified from play testing, tomorrow should revert the functionality of riding with 0, 1, and 2 hands free for classic guilds to what it was before.

Thank you!

I figured it had something to do with the new guilds and wasn't a feature, per se.

I'm bummed that I can't try these new guilds in the beta...You hear that ginka? It's an invitation to RoCk!
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: evilcabbage on November 16, 2017, 04:41:51 PM
removed code that hasn't been used in 20 years? can you tell us what it was? was it SPOOOOOOOOKY?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: nessalin on November 16, 2017, 07:10:16 PM
removed code that hasn't been used in 20 years? can you tell us what it was? was it SPOOOOOOOOKY?

Nothing exiting.  We used to define cities by blocks of hard coded room numbers, then switched to having properties on rooms.  All the old code was still there.  Stuff like that.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Grapes on November 23, 2017, 02:06:32 PM
Finding spice decay to be a frustrating concept, though I suppose realistic. I'll never get to play a dwarf who builds a house out of bricks of tho now... but it makes sense. Illicit drugs and medicines do decay over time, although, much slower than foods, I guess due to oxidation and weathering from humidity and the like. I can only hope they decay veeeeery slowly, but that's up to the concept the staff is working with.

A concern regarding spice decay: The source of spice is patches of it naturally found under the sand. It would seem to me that something found in such a manner would be resistant to rotting, and possibly the refined stuff being even more resistant, if not outright immune (finally settling the debate as to how refined spice is superior to raw spice, giving a coded reason).

An idea to facilitate storage and sale of spice in a world where spice rots may be advanced packaging methods whereby Kurac would have determined an effective way to store bricks, perhaps wrapping them in paper and coating the brick in wax... This would make it possible to stockpile and transport, until unwrapped and shaven off, at which point it would begin to degrade. Unsure if that is in line with staff's intention with this change, just musing.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Morrolan on November 23, 2017, 02:25:10 PM
Stuff

+1
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Veselka on November 23, 2017, 02:41:31 PM
Yeah, having containers designed for Spice transport/storage (wrappings, wax-sealed boxes, etc.) sounds like a neat new addition to the Kuraci Arsenal for spice sales.

It'd be cool to see more adverse affects from using raw spice -- mutations, disease, or shorter lifespans. But I suppose that can mostly be RP'd by those living in Red Storm and using raw spice the most often.

I view refined spice vs unrefined spice as Cocaine vs Crack. It's the same substance, just cut with different stuff to make it worth more, worth less, and detrimental / not-as-detrimental.

More than anything i'd love for the 'addiction code' to output a variety of echoes depending on the spice you are addicted to. So if you are addicted to Thodeliv, your addiction presents as general laziness and yawning, and muscle atrophy sort of 'feels' and personalized echoes. If you are addicted to Krelez, you begin to act like a tweaker, getting hyper feels and paranoia. Addicted to Methelinoc, you begin to feel hazy, stupid, and forgetful. The current 'spam you with the come down message' doesn't do much in the way of encouraging RP -- It just makes you want to stop using to make the annoyance of the spammed messages cropping up every 5-10 minutes.

Attention to spice code makes me happy though, and I love that spice decays -- I think it's a great step towards making it a commodity to use and to seek out, rather than save up for a rainy day. It does present an interesting issue with Kemen...I suppose use it or lose it, or keep it on your person so it doesn't decay :)
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Akariel on November 23, 2017, 02:50:06 PM
Spice kits have been a part of this game for the better part of a decade, if not longer. You may find that properly containing your spice in containers designed to hold spice, like the aforementioned, might significantly increase the lifespan on any spice you may have - though, in a pinch, any container will do a half decent job.

Suffice it to say there is going to be -plenty- of time to use your spice so long as you aren't leaving it on the rug at home.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Veselka on November 23, 2017, 03:09:19 PM
Spice kits have been a part of this game for the better part of a decade, if not longer. You may find that properly containing your spice in containers designed to hold spice, like the aforementioned, might significantly increase the lifespan on any spice you may have - though, in a pinch, any container will do a half decent job.

Suffice it to say there is going to be -plenty- of time to use your spice so long as you aren't leaving it on the rug at home.

I imagine the 'wrappings' that Kurac/others sell would be appropriate containers too?
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: MatisseOrOtherwise on November 23, 2017, 04:04:26 PM
in a pinch,

Heh. Heh heh heh. Heheheheh.
Title: Re: Release Note discussion!
Post by: Synthesis on November 23, 2017, 11:52:14 PM
What was the point of changing spice to decay?