Suggestions on how to curb GDB Flaming and off topic discuss

[UnderSeven]

To some degree I agree with hunter on that one.  I don't think we have vindictive staff, but on some psychological level it maybe hard not to have your oppinion at LEAST subconsciously affected by what someone else says.  So I think annonymous posting and not requiring us to say who we are at least gives us better feelings about it.  

Also if accounts are tied to GDB names and you figure out who is who, that is a way to get ic info.  Not that it's not possible already, but this would make it worse.  For instance if people knew my char was so and so and said char was believed dead but then a weak later posts in the clan forum and suddenly everyone knows it's a farse.

About what carnage had to say, it's true we'll never be flame free.  But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to fight back the flaming.  The fact is someone getting bashed to the moon and back doesn't promote discussion, it just squelches ideas which even if they are poor one, people might learn things, or new ideas can be branched from the discussion of what's on people's minds.

The fact is boards I see with less flame protective staff (just about every other board I see,) if you have an idea that's not real popular, you might as well not even post it.

[SailorMars]

A guest login could have a page between the login and actually hitting the boards.

"Dear anonymous guest type person. If you're thinking that being anonymous will allow you to flame without us knowing who you are, guess again. Instead, save us the trouble and go play with a hair dryer in the tub. If you're anonymous due to wanting to keep IC information private, that's great. Your thal-knot is in the mail."

Click okay to continue.

On a more serious note, a listing of the board policies, etc. on that page might be nice, with a little "I've read and agree" checkbox.

[Miee (not logged in)]

Because I am TEH 14zY, I also don't want guest posts disabled.  I've also said before that there are times when I don't want certain PCs associated with Miee.  That can lead to badness.  I try to be as vague as possible, but sometimes, well, it's not possible to be vague -enough-.

Once upon a time, during the days of "Classic Internet", I posted on a board on a still extant (why God, why) gaming site.  The admin was, and probably is, an ineffectual tool.  The board in question had become quite off-topic, was crashed often by the sheer number of posts, and was, in essence, self-policed.

Now, like I said, this was during "Classic Internet" when there were slightly less nitwits running about and running a website was a good buisness model.

There was some good natured flaming amongst us.  There was "I swear to God, get a brain before I Hadouken you off the Internet."  We ignored the people who showed up just to flame.

Now, after my rambling, we reach my point.  Just post around the flamers.  You don't have to respond.  If there's a few salient points in the flame, address them, ignore the rest.  Drop our admins a line with a link to the post in question, and continue the discussion.

As far as keeping things on topic, we just need to do our best.  God knows, I'm practically a queen on tangents and random, unneccessary stories that have no point.

[Spoon]

Linking the impoliteness point to the thread:

Perhaps being impolite is not flaming, but if everyone was polite to one another, then there would be no possibility at all of flaming.

The problem with this is that 'being impolite' is far to vague, as flaming can also be, so punishing those accused is bound to end up with misunderstandings. Plus some people just are naturally impolite.

I'm for letting more Imm's have the ability to lock threads (as I understand that not many can) perhaps, so offending threads can be finished off before they end up eight pages and counting........

Problem is, the only way to deal with this is by essentially taking away our freedom of what we can write (toned down a little).

I don't want to be part of some Nazi GDB.

[Angela Christine]

You don't have to live up to Canadian levels of politeness, but you don't have to be Judge Judy, either.  If Judge Judy is mild compared to you, then you are probably over the line.

Having an argument has nothing to do with being rude.  Ever seen a high school or college debate team at work?  They are rarely rude, I think they lose points for being rude, yet they manage to argue effectively.

There is a difference between:

I disagree with you, and here is why . . .

and

You are an ignorant twit,  and here is why . . .

:roll:


I think including IP addresses could be helpful, if it is possible.  It wouldn't eliminate anonymity, but it might make people think twice.  

Eliminating guest posting could cause problems.  There are legitimate reasons to guest post, and an a no-guest policy turns off newbies.  




Perhaps appointing some non-imm or semi-imm moderators would help.  A couple people that don't want the responsibility or hassles of being an in-game imm, but who are willing to read the boards obsessively and wipe out the worst casses of rudeness and bickering.  IC information is a more delicate judgement call, but most people can recognise when a thread has gone to hell because two or three people are locked in a bicker to the death.  It would also get rid of unrelated advertising spam messages and the occasional "come to my anti-arm website and learn sekrits!" posts.  It wouldn't eliminate the need for imm moderation, because even reasonable moderators are human and will occasionally get caught up in heated discussion.  The non-imm moderators could also refer imms to "boarderline" threads for final judgement, if they aren't sure if something is too IC or too abrasive  in tone.  

This would free up the regular imms for their in-game activities, which in the end are more important.  I would rather have the coders coding and the storytellers telling stories, then have them spending hours each day patrolling the GDB.  I read almost every thread, and reply to too many of those threads, so I spend 2-6 hours a day on the GDB, that means that I often spend more time with the GDB than I actually spend playing the game. :roll:  Obviously it would be counter-productive to have a couple imms spending 4 hours a day patrolling the GDB, they have better things to be doing inside the game itself, especially if they consider board moderation to be an ugly chore.


I think the GDB is important.  It provides a forum for building the sense of community that can be lacking in a game without global OOC channels inside the MUD.  Get rid of the Chatter forum, and the chatter will move to the General Discussion forum, or infect other threads.  


Or we could always move back to the old GDB.  http://www.armageddon.org/HyperNews/get/general-archive2002.html It was just too much work to carry on long bickering sessions back then.  


AC

[flurry]

I do like the simplicity of the board policty

No flames, no IC-sensitive information.

However, it seems to lead to a good deal of "flame lawyering", for lack of a better term.   That is, a lot of nonsense like "nope, technically that wasn't a flame" and people feeling justified in acting boorish because they've managed to stay outside of their own personal interpretation of flaming.

It might help to spell out more specifically what is and is not acceptable.  

I also support the idea of temporary bans.

I like marko's suggestion of only one forum where Guest posting is possible.   I've seen other boards like that, and it seems like a good compromise.

[Carnage]

However, it seems to lead to a good deal of "flame lawyering", for lack of a better term. That is, a lot of nonsense like "nope, technically that wasn't a flame" and people feeling justified in acting boorish because they've managed to stay outside of their own personal interpretation of flaming.

And on the flipside, it also leads to armchair moderation where people come out of the woodworks to scream flame. Unfortunately, it works all too well as I've been able to get threads closed by sarcastically declaring, "Flame! Flame! Lock the thread! Flame!" inside them.

[Gorobei]

The non-imm moderators could also refer imms to "boarderline" threads for final judgement, if they aren't sure if something is too IC or too abrasive  in tone.  

AC

Boarderline!  Tee hee!  Was that intentional?  I hope so.  If it wasn't, let's say it was anyway.

[Agent_137]

i don't want to read three pages of this. But I will offer my ideas:

Board ban by IP. - can be worked around, but still a strong signal.

Thread deletion - can be upsetting  to those with legit posts in the thread

post deletion - very effective coupled with a PM to the offender. Requires heavy moderation.

gdbs breed anger because of the large scale human interaction with the anonyminity of the internet. You can leave this anger to broil and self-police with weak moderation or you can take control of it with strong moderation. I think a message board THIS size needs strong moderation, but this will lead to some stress directed toward the moderators.

A topic like this is tough. It's such a wide gray line. You need top-notch moderators, or it can easily get worse.

On a final note, everyone needs to take some responsibility. If you see a flame, or a post that is getting out of line, don't respond back to them on the thread. Instead, send them a private message explaining politely why you think they're getting out of line, and then point out how it's better and more effective to send polite PMs instead of flames on the board.

This was done to me and was very effective, and I turned around and did the same to a poster who was getting close to flaming. He understands now to. If you don't want heavy moderation but you want boards with good discussion and no flames, this is the only way.

-Agent

[ShaLeah]

I'd like to see an ignore command installed so that maybe there wouldn't be so much tension. There are certain posters I happily skip over, I'm sure some people feel the same way about me and others, the ability to not even see what these people write would easily cut the back and forth crap right out, provided people actually use it of course.

[Miee]

More random tale time!

Think Before You Flame.

Once upon about a month ago, a trailer for a new Panzer Dragoon game began to circulate about.  It was very convincing, and my love was quite excited about it.  Well, appparently the thing circled too far, and the truth had to come out: it was simply a -very- well done hoax.  In his heartbreak and sorrow, he posted a message about his, well, heartbreak and sorrow.  The other night we had the pleasure of meeting another Sega employee, who was nice enough to fill us in on the hoax a bit more.  My boyfriend, laughing about the trailer now, admitted he wrote an angry post to a forum.  When the employee found out what he had posted under, there was a bit of a shocked laugh because he (the employee) remembered that post.  Since the employee still posted there, my boyfriend thought he'd return to the forum last night...

...to find that all his posts had been removed and he had been banned.

His posts tend to be very well-written, no grammar errors, no spelling errors, no 1337 bullshit.

No more access to Sega employee.  (except via me, of course)

So kidlets.  Think long and hard before you freak out on here.