Pkilling (slightly different than that other pk thread)

[JollyGreenGiant]

In any case, it's my personal opinion that there's just nowhere near enough pkilling. There needs to be more clan conflicts, coersion, extortion, and beatings which end within inches of being terminal. Mostly more clan conflict, because that is the fuel that makes the RP machine run.

I, too, would like to see more clan vs. clan pk.  There have been numerous (and conflicting) posts on clan conflict - some see a lot, some see little, along with disagreements regarding what people do and don't consider 'conflict.'  There have also been numerous suggestions compiled on how to change that, ranging from vastly overhauling the way the game is played, which most of the immortals probably don't have time to do, to overhauling the way that players lead, which most of the players probably don't have the time to do.

I think what might help is if the Imms and special-app clan leaders worked together a bit more to create and carry out plots, while still allowing the PCs to direct their own lives.  Note that I say "a bit more".  I realize this does happen already.  But let me give an example.  Kivan posts an RPT for Borsail's Wyverns - a group of escaped mul slaves is being transported in to be resold.  Ashyom animates an NPC Oashi, and goes to talk to Lord Oash the PC about an incoming group of mul slaves, and how it might be nice if something were to happen to said slaves, but no one knows where or when they're arriving.  It falls to Lord Oash the PC to figure out how to get the information, and what to do with it once he has it, but either task has a lot of potential to generate lasting conflict, especially if Kivan or Ashyom give it a nudge now and then.

So... erm.  Comments?  Calls for clarification?  Disparaging remarks?  (Please limit use of disparaging remarks to one per poster please.  Use of more than one disparaging remark will result in the loss of your security deposit.)

(Disclaimer:  Any resemblance to existing clans, Immortals, players or plots, real or ficticious, is purely coincidence and should not be construed as commentary on said people or plots.)

[Miee (not logged in)]

That sounds like a fairly normal occurance in Allanak.

I.  Love.  It.

And since being nitty is required here, I'd suggest that there be a brief period of time for PCs to stumble across said info.

Miee continues to press her hands to the window and whimper at E3.

[purity]

What would be much more interesting to me would be Winrothol finding out about a shipment of escaped Borsail mul slaves and trying to do something about it.  Or, Tenneshi finding out about an Oashi expedition to gather new strains of roots and blossoms for their wines and sending out a small force to disrupt the mission or even kidnap an Oashi.

Intra-city conflict is fine, but in my opinion, way overdone.  People seem to easily forget that only a single generation ago the north and south were at war. It is a memory still fresh and raw in most people's minds or at the least the minds of their parents.  It would be much more interesting to see noble houses grudgingly attempting to work together to get at 'them' then sniping at the other clan.  Face it, unless a HUGE operation is mounted, picking off a few slaves or harassing a merchant isn't going to move your noble house up the tiers.  However, when the enemy is the actual 'enemy', there's real reason to hate them.

While thinking small in terms of costs and results is probably wise when creating player-driven plots, thinking small in terms of larger goals is probably a mistake if you're looking for conflict, angst, terror and all those other real 'Armageddon' things.  Disrupting a rival house's mercantile business is a secret that might make you happy if only your own superiors hear of it, or get your own house sanctioned if the truth comes out.  But, disgracing or otherwise harming a rival in the opposite city is the kind of stuff bragging rights are born of.

[JollyGreenGiant]

Whoa, let's not confuse the example with the idea.  The example I gave of some conflict between Oash and Borsail is merely an illustration - put any two House names in there, noble or merchant, from either of the two city-states, and insert your own plotline to create a new example.

The idea driving the example I gave is that the House Imms are more directly involved in setting up some inter-clan conflict, rather than necessarily relying on the players to go out and create their own.  This isn't about player-created plots, nor would this affect them in any way.  This is more about Imms and characters in clan leadership positions working together to create and implement story arcs that generate interesting plots and conflicts as a solution to what some people perceive as a lack of inter-clan conflict.

[Trenidor]

What I'd like to see is actuall city vs city conflict. I'm sure there's someone currupt leading the city that would like to fight with the neighboring village (red storm),  city (allanak or tuluk), camp (ten'sarak), outpost (luirs), or even those small villages that have great potential (the villages that are in the middle of no where yet NPCs and PCs will occationally be found there)

Maybe said village in the desert in allanak's land is starting to build up a army. Then, allanak gets angry and wants the village to be taxed sooooo...the puny army goes on defencive while fighting against some soldiers for nak. Of course nak would'nt send a large fleet because it'd be a waste of money, but they could send out several soldiers to attack the place.

[Armaddict]

I'm more in favor of clan vs clan than city vs city.  City is too massive of a scale, basically everything would have to be an HRPT.

Clans, on the other hand, can skirmish over business, insults, etc.  Just the pc's and npc's they have.  I personally tried to get a couple clans conflicting with each other recently, but...it didn't work out so well.

Sorry!

[Stroker]

What I'd like to see is actuall city vs city conflict. I'm sure there's someone currupt leading the city that would like to fight with the neighboring village (red storm), city (allanak or tuluk), camp (ten'sarak), outpost (luirs), or even those small villages that have great potential (the villages that are in the middle of no where yet NPCs and PCs will occationally be found there)

Although, I am in favour of this as well, I do know from personal experience that it is not that easy to bring about. Though, if anyone could acomplish this, I would be very surprised and pleased.

[Hell yea]

Fucking damn good Idea. CLAN WARS! Yes perhaps salarr and kadius? no no no borsail and tor. Now that would be cool. Politicly too. Imagine they kill another and become the lowest of the houses. OooooOOO.


WHy not lets say kurac and red storm? City vs. clan.

hmmmmm fun fun.

[Stroker]

There needs to be motive for such things as well.

[mansa]

I wish I could punch someone upside the head, spit in their drink, and then walk away.

But I can't.   At least, I haven't tried lately, with the new barfight code.  Maybe I should.

[Callisto]

City is too massive of a scale, basically everything would have to be an HRPT.

I've always wanted to see Tuluk and Allanak engaged in a real war.

Field conflict for control of key supply lines, lightning raids on enemy positions and holdings, full scale assaults on forts and encampments, intelligence plots, economic booms and depressions, terrorism, privateer-style employment... just imagine how cool it would be to have all that happening over the course of a year?

It wouldn't be an HRPT level event all the time, but rather just some inter-clan RPTs so the whole world doesn't know what's coming. Lord Tor and Lord Templar could lead a squad of Scorpion elite and militia fodder to raid the construction of a Tuluki outpost, butchering the slaves and on-hand defenders, looting and burning what's left and riding off before the reinforcements show up.

You could have a group of PC raiders in the service of the Tuluki Templarate launching raids on Allanaki citizens to weaken economic interests, create unrest within the empires capitol and force them to invest resources into eliminating that threat.

Nobles would have clear cut goals and have pressure from their house to get things done. They would suddenly have more pressing business then making sure some commoner loses his eyes for forgetting to bow, or who commoner Jane is sleeping with these days.

Hunters, crafters, affiliated or independent, would all be important to the effort. Resources would be severely limited, making them more valuable and all kinds of trouble would arise as people scramble to cash in. Imagine the tribal reaction to the city-dwellers raping and pillaging the land they need to survive off of?

Bombings, sabotage, assassination, contract theft.

That would spawn all kinds of small squabbles between hunters, merchant houses, eventually leading to minor and major conflict outside of the main conflicts of the war.

Big HRPT level events are a big deal for a while, but the scope of the event is lost because whole wars happen in one big battle.

With small, but extended and escalating conflicts, a war would FEEL like a war, and not a bump in the road.

You feel people make too much money? Think it isn't hard to survive in the cities? Two words for you: War Tax.

This is how I feel Zalanthas would, could and should be.

Clan conflict is good, but global conflict is better.

[Galdun]

Agreed, Callisto.

[SailorMars]

I agree with Callisto and the others that inner-city conflict seems overly abundant and inter-city conflict somewhat lacking. In general, Tuluk and Allanak freakin' hate each other still! Hmm...

I can see OOC reasons why this may be, and will try not to get too IC in explaining them... You're talking minimum two hours of playtime to organize a group and move it south or north, to the opposite side of the known world, and then back. That is, if you leave time for RP and don't spam move. Add on another hour minimum for whatever  activity is planned. Also, a certain place central to the world is going to take notice if war parties move through its gates from either direction, and to avoid that adds on more time. Hehe, how often can a group find 3+ RL hour brackets of time to do what God intended and beat the heck out of one's enemies? Probably not as often as logging in for an hour to walk across the street and mess with thy neighbor.

Just my 2 'sids.

[Majikal]

I completely agree with more clan vs. clan pk. There just isn't enough fear between houses anymore. I mean, if I was playing a Tenneshi guard who wandered off into the city, ducked into a dark alley and crossed four Winthrol guards.. I just wouldn't have that "oh shit I'm gonna get smacked around" attitude I would have had awhile back. At the moment most houses seem to just keep to themselves with the occasional personal conflicts between guards or nobles. I'd like to see us few, talented assasins get some action  :twisted:

[WarriorPoet]

Nothing to add except *whistle*. Great idea.

I haven't been tortured to death or sold into slavery in a long, long time and I don't like it...

[Anonymous]

I completely agree with more clan vs. clan pk. There just isn't enough fear between houses anymore. I mean, if I was playing a Tenneshi guard who wandered off into the city, ducked into a dark alley and crossed four Winthrol guards.. I just wouldn't have that "oh shit I'm gonna get smacked around" attitude I would have had awhile back.

Personally, I'd imagine that open conflict (I'd call a fight in the middle of an alley open conflict) between noble clans of either city would be pretty harshly dealt with by the noble superiors of each house.  Even in Allanak, in the times that I've played a noble, violence was contracted out.  Having people wearing house colors going at it is bad for the stability of the city-state and reflects poorly on each house.

I'm not saying that players shouldn't take matters into their own hands, or that guards shouldn't lose their tempers and throwdown no matter where they are.  What I am saying is that the lack of open, brazen conflict should not, IMHO, be considered a bad thing.