PKing, a few thoughts

[Gar]

I think that PKing and permadeath are two of the greatest things about this MUD.  I've played about a year and a half and I've been PKed once and PKed a few in my time.  

Only one of my PK's was direct and as twinkish as this sounds, I think he was linkdead.  I had only played for a short time so I guess I can use that as an excuse.  Like some kind of RL criminal I returned to the scene of the crime several times.  Not sure why, but I was drawn back, maybe that's what happens in RL too.  Actually I did another direct PK but it was a PC who was critically or mortally wounded.  I justified it as putting him out of his misery.

My other PK's (three by my count) were indirect, but definitely of my own doing.  I won't go into the techniques as that might be IC.  Including the ones directly PKed, I had no idea who they were.  Only one of my PK's (one of the indirects) was known to me, someone I intended to kill for personal reasons.

My thoughts have evolved on the concept over time.  I've always thought it'd be cool to take on another PC in one-on-one combat.  Awesome stuff.  But, as my PC has become powerful enough to dispatch most he meets I find myself using much more discretion.  It's kind of like the Clint Eastwood theory (you know like in Outlaw Josie Wales).  He doesn't need to prove himself because he's badass.  Now that I have the power, I don't use it (of course if someone were to come after me, I won't back away).

The only time I was PKed was over a year ago.  I had a short lived (less than 2-day) elf burglar who was way down on his luck.  He decided to get out of Tuluk and as he walked down the road to the west he was confronted by a woman.  I was kinda surprised by how aggressive she seemed and I of course tried to lie as much as possible.  I can look back now and laugh at how she mercilessly chased me down and killed me but at the time it seemed unfair (I was so poor I was using a rock for a weapon versus her sword and shield).  Awesome stuff.

[Agent_137]

i'm a fairly nice fellow personally. It comes across in most of my characters in the sense that they prefer not to kill poeple without clear gain and a clean getaway.

I'm happy with this balance. I figure each kill is a risk in itself... I don't want to run that risk for some measly elf buglar's stone. And if they are well armed, higher risk . . . but higher gain.

Of course, this doesn't exclude the military option. I can't wait to move against some PCs and not just mobs. :mrgreen:

[Maybe42or54]

And I feel bad when I P/K, but (I don't know if anyone does this, beyond me). I send an email to the mud stating my reasons why I killed the PC incase they ask why. Anyone else do this?
I agree with gar on all my views

[Anonymous]

I like PK'ing, but I also feel guilty, if you can understand that.  The rush, the sense of competition and triumph.  Good stuff.  Then there's the reality that someone's hard work just got ended.  That helps temper my desire to PK.

I've PK'ed probably three or four times, by my counting.  It's pretty rare for me.  I like to have a good reason and no better alternative.  I've been PKed twice.  The first time was pretty cool, actually, the way the other PC did it, making that they were helping me as my PC was wounded.  Then once I was prone and defenseless -whammo-.  The second time wasn't cool.

Still, it's better than dying to some stupid jazzed up gith NPC.

[Vettrock]

I've been PKed 3 times. and I haven't actually PKed anyone.

The first time was my second character, who followed a noble back to his estate, thinking the noble was going to hire him to do some stuff, and was then, drugged, tied up, and killed.  I was a little upset at the time, but it was played out fairly well, and got me my first good comment on my account. (And it made me put in my next character's background that he hated and distrusted all nobles)

The second time was during the Tuluki war for indepenance from Allanak, and well I was on the Allanak Side....

The third was my desert elf who was trying to sell some stuff  to some people (ie scam) and was lured out of town and killed.  (had some problems with my connection and could flee kind sucked, but still better than dying to an NPC.

[Jacques]

My very first character was PKilled. Fled from an NPC, wounded and bleeding, into the middle of nowhere. Suddenly, there's this guy standing next to me, saying something cryptic about my spirit feeding something or other. *beep* Mantis head.  It took me about five minutes to realize what had happened, and then I went "that was SO COOL!" and made my next one.

On the GIVING side of things, I've been involved in some, but never been the one that actually dealt the final blow. So I don't know if those count.

[jmordetsky]

I don't PK anymore unless there are only few distasteful alternatives. I'm of the same school of thought as CRW.

However, I used to pk *ALL* the time. Whenever I got the chance, sleeping n00bs, link dead pcs, caught you in the desert on foot....didn't matter.

I'm not really sure when my attitudes changed....After my last long break I guess.

[Delirium]

I hate PKing. I'll admit it, I'm a total wuss about it, and I usually totally freeze up in scenes where I actually do it. Yet, I've PKed I think five times in total - one a raider that'd attempted to kill her, one a suspected raider taking the blame for someone that'd attempted to kill her, and three in a domino-effect 'I killed him so now I'm convinced I have to kill you to shut you up' deal which I felt insanely guilty for, but it seemed like what my character would've done.

On the flip side, I don't mind being PKed - or having people attempt to PK me. It's often perversely fun to be the hunted, especially if it's well RPd. I do like it when other roleplay alternatives are explored first - 'kill him' isn't always going to be the answer, it could also be "maim him" or "humiliate him" or "ruin his life" or "rob him blind" or "knock him out and leave him in the desert with nothing but a waterskin"... but if the situation gets pushed to it, why not?

[Bestatte]

Lessee - 14 characters so far. One died as a result of my own stupidity - drinking what I thought was "mystery wine" - heh. One retired after maybe 2-3 days real time playing her. The rest - all PKed.

I haven't PKed anyone yet, though I did arrange a couple of assassinations that were carried out by other people. And I was involved in one assassination that had me being kinda a look-out/guard to keep the victim from running away.

The first death still holds the title for the most fun death.

The guy says to you, in sirihish, "Fekkin shit fekkin happens."
WELCOME TO ARMAGEDDON!

[Armaddict]

I'm not a PK enthusiast, so to speak, but I -do- think PKing should happen.  I know it takes off all of someone's work, puts them in character withdrawals, etc...but the point of this game is role-play.  We want it to be as close to what it would actually be as possible.

If there's an IC reason that you -should- be pking someone, then do it.  Don't go OOC to find a way to let them live, because, as everyone reiterates, OOC is bad.  Maybe your character doesn't like killing people, that's fine...I'm just saying don't make it obvious you're letting the enemy live just because you don't like pkilling.

I'm not saying to go out and hunt down the next guy who emotes bumping into you hard, just saying...stay as IC as possible.

[jhunter]

Yeah, if it's IC to kill them...do it.

I -hate- when someone is obviously looking for a reason -not- to kill you or someone else because OOCly they have a problem with it.

Besides, look at it this way...dying sucks...but I'd much rather all my pcs died to another pc rather than an npc or something else.

I think people should keep this in mind OOCly when they are in a situation where it would be IC for their character to kill someone.
Yeah you could be OOCly nice and let them live...only to die later on in a less enjoyable way...or you could stick to the fact that it's IC for you to kill them and (Also being OOCly nice IMHO) give them a good death.

The latter is alway more preferable to me.

[Agent_137]

I've only been in a situation where the question "To kill or not to kill" really presented itself to me. I was already attacking that character, which was IC for me. But when I lunged at him, I wasn't sure if I would have my char kill him or not.

I'm not sure if the decision i made was because of OOC or IC reasons. I just saw him get cut so many times, and then I backed off. Right before the sucker died, too. Of course, had i killed him, I would have been hunted down. . . which is fun in itself. But I dunno...sometimes I wonder what the hunt would have been like. Ah well. I got my next char fully written up just in case, anyway.

[Pkewwer]

My philosphy is 'To kill or be killed.' If some one is a threat. depending on my character I would either stand and fight or run away. I have stood to fight a fight that I knew OOCly my character would lose. And hence I have died. To me it is most realistic this way to play. So if you are gonna play bad ass and pick a fight till  you have 2 HP and then Run away you should not Play arm. That is just annoying.

On to why I pk and stuff:
The first time I was pked was my first character. I went to take a shit and when I came back I was dead. Good stuff. Not even a chance to talk with a PC yet.

As time went on I beacme more good at this mud. ANd I find myself killing PCs left and right. As a result I became dead by the vengance of PCs who remade characters just to get me back.

Odd to PK some one in one shot with a hood on and then enter town to be killed by one who knew I did it. I mean seriously You kill in one shot, no one saw you. Maybe the victem but not enough time at all to send a contact describing who I am and what I look like. OOC affilation. I know it.

So because people are people, and when they feel unfairly killed they will do unfair things to get you back, I have toned down the frequency at that I PK. Now I just PK unless attacked first. I may emote attacking first but I will not type kill.

So far my kill count is 14. hehehe Evil I am yes I am. But the number of NPCs killed is far more so do not accuse me of being tweekish.

[Carida]

Hmm... generally I don't like pking. Seems so mean to me really... tho death is supposed to be mean :twisted: ...but if its IC to do it. Then do it. Tho personally I'd rather be killed by an npc then a pc. And yes.... I know many of you will find that strange. I will explain why. If an npc kills me, I know exactly why it happened. I'm the type that I like to know why things happen. Tho I don't always get that luxury. If a pc kills me, and I don't know the reason, drives me crazy, cause I'll just wonder and wonder. Its like a book with pieces missing to it. But then I'm a writer and I'm used to knowing all parts of the story. Yes... yes. I'm strange. But that's me.

[Sir Diealot]

I enjoy PK, as long as it's IC..

I dislike OOC-grudge PK, but that's not what the thread is about.

To me, anyone who wimps out of IC PK because OOCly they don't want to hurt the other OOC player is a shitty Rper, on par with the worst powergamer.

[Mr.B]

Personally, (unlike most people on this thread) I f'ing LOVE to PK. I love it, I love everything about it. From the quick surprise attack, plot-driven kills/assassinations, personal quests for vengence, the stalk, the planning, cunning and foresight involved in tough PK's. Though I rarely PK, (because I havn't had any good reasons these days) I don't shy away from PK even if I know it'll get me in trouble. (can spawn plots, rp and makes for a good story!)

There is no such thing as a free lunch on Zalanthas, or a drink of water. If someone was mean to you then your probably right. Don't be afraid to PK, or be a thiefy bastard, or anything else 80% of anyone on the recieving end of would grudge you for. The world needs more conflict, and more assholes to push the harshness factor.

I too think grief-PK's are just stupid, but hey it happens. The only answers are to either mail the imms about it or grief-PK yourself. I'd go with the former.

[Cenghiz]

My first PK was twinkish, it was killing a newbie. Then killed a few more, who did trust my elves  :twisted: . My chars usually like if someone adds power to him/her. To tell the truth, I usually take the newbie elf to Vivadu's and leave him there with 100 coins if he emotes a few if he decides attacking my 15-day-old ranger. "Mercy on" is usually one of the first commands I type with a new char.
*sigh* But I do hate when someone enters, doesn't do anything in a long-enough battle except "kick". I hunt them, have them hunted, kill them with all the emotes and stuff I can find out, dance around their corpses and pray to Tek to make them restless in their eternal sleep.

[naatok]

The only issue I have with pkilling is that I try to find other ways, as a player, to deal with a situation.

Now, if it is something my character would do, regardless of my OOC thoughts on sending another player to the Mantis Head, my pc is gonna kill.

Regarding Raiding, if I'm a raider I think like a person who values his or her life.  I honestly can't think of a successful pirate/brigand from real life whose philosophy was 'Kill It And Take Its Stuff'.  To put it simply, the less you have to actually 'fight' as a raider, the better off you are.

Why?  Let's be realistic and forget about the code just for a second.
Wounds can be fatal when your medical technology is based on simple healing herbs and poultices (unless we're talking magick...which is a rare resource for most people...especially raiders).  Wounds fester with infections, infections spread leading to gangrene and gangrene kills muthafuckas.  So, as a raider, the less chance I have of being wounded, the better chance I have of living to raid another day and spend my hard-stolen loot.

Therefore, my raider pc will strong-arm those he meets in the wilds...and try to convince them that if they don't give up the goods that they will die or worse.  It takes some serious roleplay to do something like that....or outnumber your victim at least 2 to 1.

If said victim chooses to spam flee out of there, chances are good my raider will either ignore that character in the future, or hunt him down and kill him, THEN take the stuff.  Alot of times, i'll just ignore such poor RP.

Raiders, to be successful, have to have some edge over their victim...either in skill, knowledge of the land, brute strength or numbers...or all of the above.
It naturally follows that a group of raiders is going to be more successful than some individual schmoe in the wilds.

The more experienced a raider or band of raiders is at their chosen profession...the less they will have to kill to make a living...and thus the longer they will tend to live.

That is, of course, until the King's commissioned wo/men come looking for said raiders....with enough force to exterminate them and bring their heads back for a bounty.   :twisted:

[Gar]

I ran into two situations recently.  One, there was a PC who was doing something so clever and innovative that I wanted to stand back and applaud his efforts.  Unfortunately, it was in direct conflict with my PC's goals.  Anyhow, I attempted to strongarm the PC to stop and eventually it came down to physical action.  I stopped short of PKing which was clearly in my ability and IC.  If it was an NPC I would have killed him for sure.  I guess the difference is that you cannot convince an NPC to leave or yield or whatever.  A PC is different.  Plus, OOc I can't help but think that his idea is so good, what will he come up with next.

The second situation was much different.  I ran into a PC that was clearly a newbie in over his head (where he shouldnt have been).  I'm not sure but he might have mistaken me for someone else, but he tried to attack me.  I put him down without mercy as I would any NPC or other that would blatantly attack me.  I felt no pity for him whatsoever.

[Stroker]

If it was IC for your character to kill the first person, you should have killed him.

[jhunter]

I agree with Dirr, if it was IC for your character you should've.

[SpyGuy]

Your characters do have choice in matters like this.  Saying its IC to kill someone is saying a character would realistically kill them.  It is not saying that its the only possible route to take or even the best one.

I for one am not going to let my characters be pigeonholed into playing a certain type of way because its an IC option or the most common player reaction.  This is not to say I don't try to play my characters realistically, but especially when it comes to things like PK there -are- choices your character must make.  You're killing a living being, and no matter how hardcore you think a character may be there is still such a thing as mercy and freewill on Zalanthas.

As far as the question goes, I rarely enjoy PK on an OOC level unless they started it, then I revel in it.  On an IC level I play it how my character would.  And some characters are ambivalent about killing a person, and so I may or may not kill them depending on my OOC thoughts and on the IC circumstance.

[Agent_137]

i'm with spyguy on this one.

One time, i was beating the shit out of this guy who did nothing wrong except say the wrong thing at the wrong time to my char. My character could have killed him or spared him, either way. So i chose for my char, I spared him.

[Gar]

If it was IC for your character to kill the first person, you should have killed him.

Right.  It wasn't IC though.  Omitting details, my PC is interested in protecting a certain "thing."  When he runs into NPC's he has no choice but to kill them as they threaten the "thing."  I cannot convince them through threats, warnings, beatings, etc.  I can do this to a PC.

[Stroker]

I appologize, I must've misread your previous reply.