Exotic?

[Cuusardo]

In the real world, there are characteristics and features of people that make them "exotic."  People with almond-shaped eyes (such as Asians), for example, are considered to be "exotic-looking."

Seeing as a vast majority of people of every race on Zalanthas would be dark-skinned, I think that pale skin would probably be considered exotic.  Almond-shaped eyes would be fairly common, especially in people with elven blood, so that would not be considered exotic.  I saw a character who had something in its main desc about looking exotic, but going by the rest of the desc it seemed that this person was only exotic by Earth standards.

I often find myself wondering what exactly is considered exotic on Zalanthas as far as appearance goes.

[Tamarin]

I've thought a bit about this myself, and the first thing that came to mind is geography.  These days, there are essentially two geographic locations: The northlands, and the southlands.  To look at unique physical characterists belonging specifically to either locale, checking out the distance between them is a good place to start.

In reality, Tuluk and Allanak are not all that far apart, and thus their climate is not really that different.  There is a lot more vegetation in Tuluk, of course, but there are still sandstorms when Whira acts up.  Thus, the winds/sun/sand will have shaped these two populaces in about the same way.  Also, there was likely a lot of intermixing of blood between the two places during the Wars, and even during the time before Gol Krathu and Vrun Driath were conquered.

Addressing what Cuursado said about skin tone, yes, most people are probably tanned to a crisp.  Zalanthas is not the kind of world where one can live most of one's life inside.  As such, people are going to be naturally dark skinned, even without being exposed to sun rays.  Take Egypt for example.  Ancient egyptians were very dark-skinned, almost black like Africans (and they do have evidence of this...remains of people from that time revealed the right amount of melanoma to suggest a natural dark complexion), and Egypt seems to me to be a relatively similar climate.  As such, it is the pale comlexions that are going to be considered unusual, or exotic.  As for eye-shape and other things of that nature, we can't think of it in terms of asian, because Zalanthas doesn't have asians.  For all we know, the Zalanthan concept of a circle looks more like a rounded rectangle.

We try to separate ourselves so much from reality, but this is extremely difficult.  I am all in favor of coming up with a set list of characteristics that would be considered "average" for the Zalanthan humanoid (obviously different races have different traits), and perhaps this can be phased in over time.  I.e. the imms reject player apps from some of the more experienced players if their "exotic" humans have dark skin, regular shaped eyes, etc. etc.

[Zhaira]

Please keep idle OOC chatter to the board created for it.  I have removed some posts in the effort of making things readable.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I'd say blond, white, or bright red hair would be exotic.

[Anonymous]

Seeing as a vast majority of people of every race on Zalanthas would be dark-skinned, I think that pale skin would probably be considered exotic.  Almond-shaped eyes would be fairly common, especially in people with elven blood, so that would not be considered exotic.  I saw a character who had something in its main desc about looking exotic, but going by the rest of the desc it seemed that this person was only exotic by Earth standards.

I often find myself wondering what exactly is considered exotic on Zalanthas as far as appearance goes.

I think pale skin would just denote wealthyness or nobility, or having been very lucky. Certainly not the norm, but not quite exotic in the way you say it.

I think there would be so many different varieties of people that not much could be considered exotic. I mean, there are mutants and stuff as well.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I think pale skin would just denote wealthyness or nobility, or having been very lucky. Certainly not the norm, but not quite exotic in the way you say it.

I disagree.  Considering the vast amount of time that the inhabitants of Zalanthas have spent in a brutally hot world, it is likely that their skin tone is genetically dark, despite the (ahem) disporportionate amount of pale-skinned player characters.

I think there would be so many different varieties of people that not much could be considered exotic. I mean, there are mutants and stuff as well.

It's pretty clear in the documentation that the majority of people are dark-skinned.  Also, I think any mutant would be exotic, simply because while they aren't uncommon, they are all unique.  A Zalanthian could go through their entire life and not see the same mutation twice.

[John]

A Zalanthian could go through their entire life and not see the same mutation twice.

Not necessarily. I see some mutations that are very similar. Such as this mutation that gives non-half-elves and non-elves almond shaped eyes

But yeah, there are various mutations that are all themed familiarly. I won't go into IC info, but I can see someone seeing various people with the same mutation.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Not necessarily. I see some mutations that are very similar. Such as this mutation that gives non-half-elves and non-elves almond shaped eyes ;)

But yeah, there are various mutations that are all themed familiarly. I won't go into IC info, but I can see someone seeing various people with the same mutation.

Key word being, could.  It isn't my fault that nobody has any imagination (see Angela Christine if you need ideas).

[creeper386]

I saw a character who had something in its main desc about looking exotic, but going by the rest of the desc it seemed that this person was only exotic by Earth standards.

Well, I'd have to say, he was probably exotic by Earth standards then. It's not your character reading this description. You have to translate it into what your character is seeing and make a decision based on that. I mean, that'd be like you being black and complaining because some white dude was saying they are darkly tanned. The black dude can't think the white dude acctually was saying he was dark by anything other then light skinned standards. Has to be abit of translation there.

As for eye-shape and other things of that nature, we can't think of it in terms of asian, because Zalanthas doesn't have asians. For all we know, the Zalanthan concept of a circle looks more like a rounded rectangle.

One, elves have almond shaped eyes commonly. Therefor half-elves do. Having almond shaped eyes IG IMO would be more likely to be a bad thing then an 'exotic' thing as in people liking it, although it might be more rare in humans and such. Also, a circle is a circle. Period. Yes, perhaps different things are visually appealing to a Zalanthan then by Earth standards, but that doesn't mean shapes are different. If they are different, then they wouldn't be the same shape.


Creeper

[John]

For all we know, the Zalanthan concept of a circle looks more like a rounded rectangle.

We're not reading sirihish when play Armageddon. We're reading english. Therefore if a description says something is a circle, it's a circle. Sure if you translated the word circle from English, you might produce rectangle in sirihish. But we're not reading sirihish. We're reading English.

It's not like with hot and cold, tall and short which are subjective terms. A circle is a circle. A rectangle is a rectangle. One is one. Up is up. Sky is sky. These aren't subjective terms.

[ShaLeah]

What I find exotic on Zalanthas, by ShaLeah


Black/very dark skin and pale hair/eyes.
Mutations, especially in the south. Some mutations are always unnerving no matter where you are.
Unnatural color hair or eyes.
Any pale person in Nak.
Any really dark person in Tuluk.
Any dark noble, any signs of work from a noble make me wonder.
Clean characters.

I can't think of much else. Naturally fair colors, red heads, blondes, I wonder how those would do.  To help me think on exotic level those things I listed should be together with really well written descriptions.  I've found that often I look past the ugly of ugly people because their describes are excellent.

[Larrath]

I try to think about things that would be less likely to exist on a genetic level.

People with red hair and freckles are more vulnerable to sunlight, so that would be rare.  Pale skin, albino coloration...probably any 'special' colored hair, though only the wilder colors (I can see grey haired people here and there, but pink hair is going to draw attention).

Third nipples.  Third breasts.

Oh, also, I think especially rounded or small ears on humans could be seen as a good quality, since elves are, like, not a good thing.

[Angela Christine]

I disagree.  Considering the vast amount of time that the inhabitants of Zalanthas have spent in a brutally hot world, it is likely that their skin tone is genetically dark, despite the (ahem) disporportionate amount of pale-skinned player characters.

It's pretty clear in the documentation that the majority of people are dark-skinned.

I am not sure it is so clear.

Zalanthas is not the middle east. It isn't the Sahara desert.  It isn't death valley.  It is a different planet with a different sun.  I wouldn't assume Zalanthan ethnicites are necessarily identical to places on earth with similar climates.

Heat doesn't cause dark skin.  Dark skin offers no particular advantage for dealing with heat, so there is no reason for natural selection to favor dark skinned people.

Damage from UV radiation causes darkening and thickening of the skin.  How much UV radiation is given off by Zalanthas' dim red sun?  How much reaches the surface?  We don't know, it could be more, it could be less.  The docs don't say.  Since there are NPCs with sun burns we can assume that there is some UV, but not how much.  The wall around Allanak is over 60 feet high, people who live and work near the walls may be exposed to very little sunlight or UV.  Someone living in the underground may have the sort of pasty complexion you'd expect from someone who spends their days indoors in front of the warm glow of a computer monitor.

Here are some exerpts from the racial helpfiles. I've only included humanoid ones that mention skin colour.

"Skin colour ranges from

nearly black to pale cream colours; hair is typically dark but shares a similar range of hues. Eye colour among elves is a matter of extraordinary variability."

"Desert elves are nearly always members of desert tribes, and wander freely about the wastes hunting for what they need. They tend to be darker in skin colour than city elves, as well as leaner and more muscular. " [/list]

If desert elves are darker, it stands to reason that city elves are lighter.  Maybe city elves are the "pale cream" ones?

"Most humans stand between around 65 to 75 inches in height and

vary tremendously in skin and eye colour (hair colour tends to range between light blonde to black, but peculiar variations on even this feature are entirely possible). Aeons of life on Zalanthas has warped the human appearance enough so that physical anomalies are somewhat commonplace: webbed fingers or toes, hairlessness, pointed ears, long or short limbs, or skin tones in the faint blues or greys are all possible mutations upon the basic human form."

"Half-giants appear much like a human, but with highly exaggerated features, and skin tones which sometimes go into the reds."

"Skin and eye colours among halflings tend to vary between a pale cream and a muddy brown, although other colourations are not uncommon: pale blue, greenish, or coppery skin can all be found." [/list]

It seems that pale colours are fairly common, blue is uncommon.  None of these races are listed as being dominantly dark skinned, by either genetics or personal adaptation.  

I believe a full range of ethnicity is beneficial.  It makes new players more comfortable if they can choose their look without being thought a freak, which is good.  Some people simply like playing someone who looks like a Celtic or Norseman.  It also reinforces the idea that the Known World has suffered climate change and displaced populations, as you would expect in a post-apocalyptic setting.


AC

[John]

In all the complaints about pale-skinned people. This is the first time I've read a good case for having pale skinned people.

[Sir Diealot]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I just read it, and decided I'd comment...The red sun would produce as much, if not more UV radiation than our yellow sun. (If the physics are the same in the Zalanthas universe, which they may not be..). Since the UV radiation would increase, the DNA strands in humans, and probably humanoids, that produce more folic acid (a chemical that is responsible for the thing that is responsible for the thing that is responsible..etc. etc. for skin darkening) would survive better, and live longer without melanoma..intense sunburns..and such..therefore, most people would be born looking like earth's african-american and Indian population, with perhaps some middle-eastern influences.  Also, most people would have smaller eyes of darker colors, to protect them from sand and intense heat that is /bad/ for the aqueous humor.  Noses would probably be small as well, with small nostrils, in order to keep out sand/parasites seeking that incredibly rich source of water.  Ears would be small for the same reason, and probably rounded both because of Elves being dislike, as well as the fact that it is less able to catch sand with them shaped like that.  Long limbs, and tall, lean bodies would be doing well here, think the Kenyan long-distance runners, or the tall, lanky types..Osama (who comes from the desert people of earth) is a tall, lean, think man with an average nose, small nostrils, small eyes, and swarthy skin..as are most people of his ethnicity.. The egyptians were shorter than modern americans, but were very, very lean and long-limbed..And that's just Humans..I could continue with this is anyone's interested, as I'm a bio major who studies genetics/evolution as my focus..and am deeply interested in the topic..or it could get discarded as this is, like you said, a fantasy game. (just trying to keep it realistic..which is what makes the MUD great imho.)

[EvilRoeSlade]

The documentation states that pale colors are possible.  It doesn't say that they are common.  Sort of like having red hair in RL.

Understand that I'm simply stating that pale skin would appear to be rare.  I'm not accusing people who have pale-skinned characters of being fuck-me PCs, or of disregarding the documentation.

[Sir Diealot]

I understand that..I'm just giving a biological precedent in relation to real-world physics and biology.

[Angela Christine]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I just read it, and decided I'd comment...The red sun would produce as much, if not more UV radiation than our yellow sun. (If the physics are the same in the Zalanthas universe, which they may not be..)

Please explain this assertion.  I don't know anything about stellar phenomina (except what shows up on startrek) so if there is some way of knowing what kinds of radiation are most likely to be emited by different colours of stars.

There is also the problem, I'm not sure if it makes a difference, of not knowing exactly what sort of red star it is.  Is it a regular star that just happens to be reddish?  Is it a red giant?  A red dwarf?  Ok, red dwarf is unlikely, but it could be a red giant.  I think the sun in DarkSun is a red giant.  A big dim sun.


Dim sun, heh heh, that sounds like chinese food.


AC

[Sir Diealot]

oy.. time for an astrophysics lesson kids. *loathing at AC*

   Red stars are larger because they have burned the tight hydrogen core of their younger days. A star the size of the sun would be roughly the size of Mars' orbit once it hit red-giant mode. That's a heckuvalot bigger, even astronomy-wise..Ok, now..when it does that, the heat is redistributed throughout the star, so the whole thing is burning hydrogen (or helium, depending on the star, if it's burning helium..then wow..there's a lot of UV because of the way particles work..which I can't get into because, a Dr. of Particle Physics I am not..ask Monsignior Hawking..)
   Ok, the star..which had been kept small by the force of gravity..and had been kept from implosion by the force of radiation emitted by fusion/burning/all that star junk.. just had the giant mass in the middle get burnt up..and now the whole thing is doing fission/fusion/whatever..so the thing expands. Also, in the middle, all the unburned particles..iron, lead, etc. etc. etc. implode, exploding out EVEN MORE energy..which forces the star to get bigger and continues to happen for quite a while. All of this spreads out energy, and causes more and more particles to be being burnt up, fusioned and fissioned, and since those processes release radiation..vwah-lah..extra UV.

[Carnage]

The documentation states that pale colors are possible.  It doesn't say that they are common.  Sort of like having red hair in RL.

It doesn't say it's uncommon either.

[da mitey warrior]

The red sun would produce as much, if not more UV radiation than our yellow sun

It should produce less.  Red stars produce more infra red than UV rays.  It would produce more total radiation, true, but more would be in the form of infra red and microwave radiation.

So does that mean that everyone should be pale?  I dunno.  There probably wouldn't be an ozone layer either.  So it could go either way.

[Comrade Canadia]

I don't really see the need to bring physics in to this to prove any points.  It's common sense.  Extremely hot climates with a great deal of sun = dark skin.  To have a multitude of exceptions to this without an understandable IC reason hurts my suspension of disbelief.  That's probably a big thing for me - I really could care less about all the pale skinned beauties if a reason was given for them, even a crappy contrived one... it'd help.

The two most commonly given reasons, strike me as sort of spur of the moment contrivances from players and... well, I don't buy them.  Saying that we get all these gorgeous North Americans because of random mutations seems a WEE BIT convenient for me.  And being 'indoorsy' also doesn't cut it.  If your parents are black, you don't turn into a fair-skinned prince by avoiding sunlight.

-Der Comrade

[wizturbo]

This isn't a typical world.  

If someone having light skin makes you disbelieve the world, but defilers and mindbenders do not...not sure what to tell ya.

To me, the color of someone's skin is a very minor thing compared to some of the leaps from reality Zalanthas has.

[Forest Junkie]

If someone having light skin makes you disbelieve the world, but defilers and mindbenders do not...not sure what to tell ya.

Thank you, I agree. If one cannot suspend their disbelief to enjoy a roleplaying -game-, then something is wrong. This is not reality. It's fiction. Just take things as they are.

[EvilRoeSlade]

This isn't a typical world.  

If someone having light skin makes you disbelieve the world, but defilers and mindbenders do not...not sure what to tell ya.

To me, the color of someone's skin is a very minor thing compared to some of the leaps from reality Zalanthas has.

Your comparison is such a far stretch from the topic at hand that it does little to aid the discussion.  A good science fiction or fantasy tale will only break the laws of physics, or any other natural laws that govern the real world, when it has to.  To break it on a whim is a mark of a poor and contrived setting.  I don't mind different races because I think that having biologically different sentient races is possible in theory.  I don't mind magick and psionics because their inexplicable nature is the whole point of including their existance.

The suspension of disbelief must be held, but more importantly, players have to be able to use logic derived from real life in order to solve problems.  I know that if my character jumps off a cliff he's going to be harmed, because gravity is still functional.  I know that long exposure to the sun will dehydrate my character, because a Zalanthian human needs the same fuel to survive and is affected by the environment in the same way as an earth human.

The whole point of a low fantasy setting is that you can survive using logic.  In real life, you can roughly approximate where somebody is from by the color of their skin.  Suppose I was a commanding officer of a unit in the military, stationed in Afghanistan, and my superiors told me they suspected there was a spy amongst the seven men taking orders from me.  I take a look at them.  Six of them are white Americans, and one of them is of Islamic heritage with a turban wrapped around his head.  Who do you think I'm going to question first?  If the same situation occurs when I'm an Allanaki militia Lieutenant, and I see six people with dark skin and one with fair skin, then I should be able to deduce that the one with fair skin is probably northern.  If the north wanted to use a spy, then they'd either have to use someone who was born in Nak, or somebody from Tuluk that looked as if they were born in Nak.  If I look at my seven men and see three with blue skin (which is outside the human norm and decidedly in the realm of mutation), three with pasty white skin, and one with red skin... then I consider that as bad as my character getting sucked into the sky because he forgot to stay indoors when "It's one of them darn gravity-reversal days."

Skin color is regionally based in real life.  This is a clear and obvious fact that shouldn't be deviated from unless there is a very good reason.  Right now I only see reasons not to deviate.

I don't see why this is even an issue.  I'm sure that somewhere in the documentation it states the following:

North= Lighter skin tones and hair
South= Darker skin tones and hair

I'll go hunting for the link now, and I'll post it should I discover where it is.