I haven't seen a Templar, so they must all be dead!

[Anonymous]

Wrong.

If a clan is 'missing' people, they are not dead, or busy.  They are still alive and well, just that part of the world is not occupied by the players of ArmageddonMUD.

One big thing that I've learned over the years of playing in Zalanthas is that the player population of a clan does not tell you that -that- clan is the biggest and strongest in the game world.

So, next time you're trying to find that Nenyuk agent to rent out to, or that Salarri that you want to buy a 'special' weapon from, or that 'Kadian' where you want to buy that see-through bra (And, speaking of that, NO.  YOU WILL NOT GET YOUR BRA OR UNDERWEAR) and you can't find them...  EMAIL THE CLAN IMMORTAL OF THAT CLAN!

Shit, people.  There's at least a thousand people in Kadius alone, up north.  I mean, they BUILT friel's rest.

-Frustrated and Annoyed

[Bestatte]

Heh. After well over a RL month of waiting for a Nenyuk PC, I e-mailed mud and the clan imm. That was over two RL weeks ago. I never did get a response. I did see some PC saying they were with Nenyuk, but were only around for a day (game-day I'm assuming), and by then the need for the Nenyuk no longer existed. I haven't seen that Nenyuk PC since then either, and as far as I know, no one has seen any Nenyuk PC before or since.

I haven't had that kind of problem with any other merchant clans though. I just think Nenyuk is cursed with absentee players.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I have a feeling that being a Nenyuki family member just happens to be a really boring role.

[Stroker]

Hmmm ..... they're just biding their time before coming out of their shells.

[Anonymous]

The point is..that you are wrong to say anything about a certain clan, in game, based on the population of players within that clan.

I don't want to correct you in a populated tavern, through the OOC channel.

[Anonymous]

Most Nenyuks live in Steinal, and only visit now and then.  That's why.

[Petra]

I don't want to correct you in a populated tavern, through the OOC channel.

So don't.  Just let it go, honestly.  This stuff happens and it's usually newer players.  They'll learn.  You needn't be that eager to sound the red roleplay police siren .

[Bestatte]

Actually Guest has a very valid point and it isn't the first time it's come up. I remember a time when I was RPing with some merchants and one of the -merchant- employees commented that they were the -only- members of that house in town.

So yeah I agree with Guest. Just because there aren't any active PCs doesn't mean there aren't any members of the house in town. They're just not PCs is all.

E-mailing the clan imm won't always help (as in my situation), and sometimes it will (as I'm guessing in most other situations), but please - please people don't make RPed statements such as "He is the only Nenyuk here" or "She is the only Kadian." Because it's not true, and it sounds silly, particularly when suddenly the Kadian hawker NPC outside the Sanctuary starts shouting about how wonderful his stuff is.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, well, it's a minor crime.

It's about as bad as saying 'That's the new templar' about someone who has probably had a background of being a templar for a good 10 years.

I can understand it being a pet peeve, but I don't think it's worth an OOC at all.

[Another Guestish person]

Now, this is interesting.

I played a northern Kadian somewhat recently, and had my character treated the same way as Guest had his. And nobody worry now, I'm not going to make this a post full of bile.

It sucks. Your character is being looked down upon, or treated in different ways, because there's been a while since a Player played a family member of your house. This is especially troublesome when a Noble or family of another Merchant House says it as there's no way to, unless you're playing quite the eccentric, brush them off by mentioning various vNPC and NPC merchants. If I were a proper roleplayer and writing a book rather than putting feelings into my character, this wouldn't bother me too much.

It frustrated me a great deal. And it definitely does not come only from newbies.

[Sanvean]

My impression is that the Nenyuk players have also found it a very frustrating role. No one can manage to be on the game 24/7, but some people will take out their OOC frustrations regarding this ICly - which makes the role even less fun.

I see a pretty constant flow of these sorts of complaints, where merchant PCs get abused because the staff member handling the clan wasn't around to instantly load up whatever someone wanted, or wasn't willing to have 500 mask items added to the game, or made a mistake, etc.  - and none of that is the PC's fault. Sometimes PCs get abused because the merchant PC before them took a special order and then got pkilled by a customer, so the special order was lost or delayed.

Other than urging people to remember that merchants have OOC things going on as well, I'm not sure what to do.  Suggestions, as always, are welcome.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Being realistic, if I played a merchant character and I was abused for what the last dumbass did, I would not take orders from that character any longer.

Suggestively, I might ask the clan immortals to better monitor their operations and perhaps use NPCs to get the PCs' goods to them, if the PC was not available.

[Bestatte2]

2 lazy 2 log in..

Anyway, suggestions as requested:

Players of people who need merchants: BE PATIENT! Especially if you actually run into a -new- player of a merchant character. I can't tell you how frustrating it was, as a merchant PC, to have half the city waying me, trying to get my attention, yelling at me because the previous merchant never did what they were supposed to do, or the previous merchant showed favors that I wasn't obligated to show..or that they did -not- show favors that the customer expected me to show anyway..etc. etc. etc.

My biggest headache was with people who expected my character to know everything about what the previous merchant knew. It just doesn't happen that way, much as we wish it would.

Also, sometimes we get stuck in sticky OOC situations, where a clan imm is gone without notice for who the heck knows how long, and we're waiting on the same orders/requests you're waiting on. There is NO way to roleplay around this, and it sucks big-time for you, but imagine how badly it sucks for us because we have to hear it from EVERYONE, not just you.

When I was a merchant pc, starting out, I didn't know squat about what to expect. I had a lot of help from Sanvean, who showed an incredible amount of patience for me even though we discovered after the first week that she wasn't even my clan IMM. If it wasn't for her, I would've quit the role after the first week.

But she can't do that for everyone, and she can't be there all the time. And sometimes, things just get stuck in the middle and don't get done. Again, there really isn't any reasonable way to RP around it. All we can do, as players of merchant PCs, is say "e-mail the clan imm and ask them." We've done all we can do IC and OOC, and we can't go further than that.

To the staff of merchant clans: Be actively involved in your clans. If your PC merchant needs stuff every day, respond every day. Even if it means saying "Can't do that today, sorry. Try again next week." There are two IMMs assigned to each merchant clan now from what I remember seeing on the weekly update. Surely one of you can offer SOME response. Once a week, it would be great to have some RPed interaction, if only for 10 minutes to deliver special orders, or get clarification on an item, or check the security of a lock on a door. Just something to let the merchant PC's player know that you REALLY take an interest in your clan and want to keep things moving.

Mekeda was an excellent example of the above, when I was in Kurac. At least once a week, often more than that, a kank started wiggling its antennae, or the stablehand helped explain why it was important to feed the kank the right kind of treats, or the Captain would yell at me (or one of the other military folks), or a merchant's NPC guard would smirk.. Nechomachus was another great example when I was with Oash. He had me laughing my ass off with his NPC guard's gestures and arched brows and smirks and movements..

It's often the little stuff that makes the biggest difference. Just knowing that the clan imm is THERE - is often enough to bring the merchant PC's player an immense sense of confidence in their role.

To the merchants themselves: Read the docs. Read everything there is to read about your clan. Learn who their current allies are and why, who their current enemies are and why. Ask your clan imm to fill you in on EVERYTHING that your character would know about current situations with the clan business. If possible, ask if you can connect with the previous PC's player and see if there's anything he feels your character would and/or should know. Just because Susie Salarr hated House Grub doesn't mean you have to, but it will help to know that she did, when House Grub starts snorting at you when you knock at their door.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Agreed, Bestatte.

[Another Guestish person]

Was actually very surprised that this was so common. Thank you for that post, Sanvean, and thanks to Bestatte for expanding on it.

When I played, I had a feeling of only being there to serve others. Not in the sense of my character serving their characters, but in the sense of I, the player, servicing players. I'm certain that it can be a role that is great fun to play but it taxed me.. immensely. Maybe doing as Venomz said, and OOCing out that they should mail the Imm, might work.

Obviously and thankfully, not everyone has these problems, but I think enough do that it was great that Guest put the thread up.

[Guest Nenyuki]

Playing a Nenyuk isn't easy. First of all, it requires good organization skills. If you don't have these then you're going to really suffer due to the sheer size and number of people you speak with and rent houses to on a daily basis. Next, it requires a thick skin. If something came up in real life or I wanted to take a break for a real life week or so I would come back to a rumors board full of complains that I was constantly unavailable, turning my back onto commoners, or just plain scheming to screw them over. It's not a great feeling to log in and see complaints about you taking a break when you've been logging at least two to three hours a night for the past two months.

It's not at all surprising that the players of merchants can so easily burn out. Sitting by yourself for hours on end gets quite stale. And sitting is required. There are times when you're busy and there are times when you're not. If you log out every time there's a lull or after twenty minutes of nothing, you'll come back the next day to hear about people complaining more about how horrible a Nenyuki you are and so on.

In short, you should walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you critisize. Try out the role of a merchant and play it for a few months. You'll learn to appreciate this little-creditted role a lot more than you did before.

[Malifaxis]

I would really like to make the comment that it is not just Nenyuki merchants that are hard to play.

Any merchant of any house is difficult if you have any form of a lust for life.

[flurry]

One of my previous characters was a merchant in a merchant house.   It was  -really- difficult at times.   The amount of abuse you take at times from other PCs is hard to understand unless you've experienced it.   Sometimes it makes IC sense, and that's fine.   That's part of the deal, as far as I'm concerned, and I don't have a problem with that.   But some of it really has a strongly comes across as OOC frustration that's spilling over into the RP, and that can be hard to take especially with the frequency that it happens.   It's especially hard when you feel like you've gone above and beyond, but the PC is just getting abusive because the player is impatient.  And it felt like that fairly often.

I would strongly encourage people who have been frustrated with dealing with orders with merchant houses to play in a role where you have to take those orders yourself.  I think it will put a whole new perspective on it for you.

[da mitey warrior]

I'm not sure what everyone else is talking about, I think being a house merchant is one of the best roles in the game.  Wheeling and dealing, making piles of sid, and selling stuff all day.  Best of all, you have a monopoly in whatever stuff you are selling so your customers beat a path to your door.

All a pc house merchant needs is some keys, a wagon and an imm who's willing to load a pile of crap for you to sell.  If you get all that you are set for an unending series of adventure and interesting times for your character.  Build a merchant empire, travel the world, battle raiders and duck angry nobles.  There's nothing you can't do.

The really hard roles, in my opinion, are nobles and templars.  Since they are far more restricted in where they can go and what they can do.  They are far more likely to be forced to sit alone doing nothing and need alot more self-motivation and drive than anyone else.

[creeper386]

Myself... I think I'd love to play a house merchant and really hate to see things IC due to OOC circumstances(Such as playing times), but I've never had the chance so I honestly don't know how much of a hassle it is. Although I've heard all sort of bad things I'd jump on the chance to play a merchant family member or something like that, but I suck. So haven't ever had the chance, or get enough IC trust to ever do anything fun.


OH well. Be patient thats good advice.



Creeper

[mansa]

As of Wednesday, January 14th, I know that Salarr, Kadius and Kurac are accepting applications for Family Members.  Just email the clan immortal, and they'll tell you what you have to do.

Salarr: Ix Machina and Xygax
Kadius:  Ashyom and Sanura
Kurac:  Mekeda and Kivan

[Ix Machina]

When we have need of family members, we post. Otherwise, you can get a job ICly with a clan and work upwards.

Now, playing a merchant or agent of any Merchant house is probably one of the most frustrating roles in the game because you are constantly hemmed in by OOC factors and IC factors and rely heavily on immortal support.

Will I load up objects for my clan PC's to sell the very day they ask for them? No. Why? Because my PC's are not walking armor and weapons vending machines.

Please think about that. ANY merchant house merchant and agent is not a walking gear and apartment vending machine. Many of them have other IC responsibilities and getting equipment made is not an exact science.

I can assure people that there are people in clans available to take their orders. If worst comes to worst, email the clan immortal. Many of the merchants in-game log in for between 2 and 10 hours a day. If you aren't around when they are, don't assume they're never around. And if they take a break from the mud for fear of burning out, then respect that too.

IC frustration is understandable, being a jerk as a player and heaping abuse ICly on a player due to OOC circumstances is not, and will likely cause less people to play the roles of merchants which everyone seems to need. Keep in mind there are OOC constraints on these players as well, and rules that they go by.

I think most people would do well to remember that behind each character, there is a living, breathing human behind a keyboard. Except for me, because I'm a robot.

[Twilight]

Am I the only one struck by a sudden evil desire to have a Nenyuki, playing only between 2 and 4 am pacific a couple days a week?

I've always had rather positive experiences with merchants, even when it took 5 IC years to get an item that wasn't special, it was fun IC'ly.  Maybe because I wasn't really concerned about the item OOC'ly at all.  Thats the only advice I would give.  Remain OOC'ly uncaring about things like special items.  They don't really matter.

[spawnloser]

Personally...I can see why someone would have the desire to play a merchant house merchant/agent.  However, I am not sure that I would want to...just because of all the things that have been listed.  I went through, with a character, waiting for nearly 6 IG years for something...something that could and should have only taken a short amount of time to do.  I could understand a year, as it was for custom things...but still, the only excuse that was given was not having access to things.  Later I found out that the IMM for the House wasn't loading things.  I don't know why.  I just know that that was what I was told.  Since then, there have been additions to staff, which may eliminate those problems, but still...I feel sorry for the person that had to put up with me.  I could not justify that kind of delay either IC or OOC...I could not justify my character being okay with this.  I'm sorry.  It sucks to be on the receiving end of such things...it sucks having the family name dragged through the mud by people pissed off at such disturbing delays.

My suggested solutions, which are things for staff and players...
First, players of these roles, make it clear when there are delays for any item, WHY.  I'm not saying to use the OOC command to tell the player...but come up with a screwy excuse if it is an OOC problem, so the other player can figure it out instead of continuing to hound your character every saturday.

Second, players hunting these people down, calm down.

Third, Imms of the merchant houses, be prompt...I'm not saying to load things the same day, but to load things when they should be loaded.  Don't let yourself get turned away from that, as it screws with the people playing the roles you all seem to be advertising for, and could drive them away.  I know one person that was getting tired of his role for OOC reasons...I know another that did get tired of the role and did something intentionally to get his character killed off.  It creates more work for you trying to find someone because the previous person didn't have the support they wanted.  Now, I'm not saying that anyone doesn't do these things already...I'm saying that I know it happened in the past, however.

[ashyom]

I suppose, being a Kadian Staffer, it's my turn to post my thoughts on this.  Much of this is applicable to the other merchant houses and their respective staffers.  This is a bit long-winded and I've glossed over many issues.  If I've missed something, please take it with a grain of salt.  But what it basically boils down to:  Customer players need to give merchant players some slack, and vice versa.

Many times, it seems like people forget that we're living in a society where its technology is fairly crude compared to today.  It has been described to be slightly more advanced than the Bronze age on Earth.  Despite Kadian's large village consisting of few hundred crafters, it's still difficult, if not impossible, to supply clothes and items for a chunk of two cities, and a few villages' people promptly.  Let's compare RL; hundreds of years ago, it was pretty customary for castles to take generations to complete.  A fancy, embroidered, lace-frilled suit for a well-off commoner might take several months.  Today, we can crank out thousands of fancy, embroidered, lace-frilled suits in a week.

Back when I first started as Kadian Staffer, I decided, at Naephet's advice, the rule of thumb would be, a convenential order (ex: a blue shirt) might take a month to fill.  An unusual order of whatever of which we do possess designs for (unusual, meaning a blue shirt with fanciful embroidery and a matching skirt with frills) might take 1-3 months.  A special order for a completely new design, most likely a year or two (a custom-design for a hanky wouldn't take that long, though).  The more complex it is, the longer it takes.  Following that policy, I generally load any orders from between Wednesday of previous week to this week's Wednesday on the following Saturday, and special orders 2+ weeks later.  It might seem odd, but these 2 days give me the time to make sure I can have them ready on Saturday.

There have been people who asked, why don't I give a list of items to the merchants, or let them have access to everything instantaneously?  The answer is, to cite Ix, they are not walking, talking vending machines.  It takes time to submit orders, and wait for items to be brought out from the warehouses.  Sometimes they have to be shipped halfway across the known world.  If you want to have something now, go visit visit one of the shops in the Bazaar or Freil's Rest where they cater to people who must have things now.  They have a generous supply of fashionable clothes readily at hand.

There are a few of players who submitted very specific orders, and posed it in a way ICly that led the merchants and myself to think, this person will mail the staffers with the descriptions of the aforementioned items.  So I sit, and watch my mailbox.  I very rarely get these emails.  These are usually the people who bi--err--complain about waiting "ten years" for an order.

Additionally, in my experience, when we try and fill these very specific orders with similar, look-a-likes, players sometimes...respond badly.  Here's an example a Salarr merchant player once shared (colors and names changed to protect the not-so-innocent):  S/he presented a Fancypants person with a grass-green leather suit.  This person said, "No!  I wanted leaf-green leather suit!"  Poor player.  I have also heard of instances where people were upset because the clothes weren't sized properly, or the description didn't match perfectly what they wanted or it wasn't brought out instantly at right that moment, etc...No wonder most merchant players feel stressed!

All this is why I warn players who apply for Kadian merchants.  I tell them, "This role is stressful, both IC and OOC.  It can be tremendous fun, but you'll have to learn to let the flack from customers roll off your back."  Some people can take it.  Most can't.  As result, I try and be as flexible as possible, to help ease some of the stress, without letting it become unrealistic.

I hope this clarifies some things.
Ashyom