>Someone rips a juicy...

[Forest Junkie]

:shock:

After witnessing an event not too long ago, in which a hidden person threw out a couple emotes in a semi-crowded area, I wanted to get a general consensus on how everyone feels one should act in a situation such as this.

Instance: You are sitting at a bar, blah blah blah, when all of a sudden...

>Someone crosses their arms across their chest before leaning back against a shaded wall of the hazy tavern.

BAM! Every pc in the room either scans, emotes a "glances around quickly", or starts getting a little skittish in their role-play, ie asking for their guards to move a bit closer to them.

Now, I'm not saying this is WRONG, just asking what everyone's opinion on this matter is.

Personally, I usually ignore hidden people emoting, for the sake of the fact that they are hidden. Shrug, basically, I try to not break up the flow of play and scan or shit my pants, when, realistically, the pc has done nothing wrong. Hell, most wouldn't even know they are there. The pc, IMO, is just being kind enough to add his bit of flavor to the rp cocktail.

I suppose the end result would be up to the player, acting however their pc would IC. But please, humor me. What would -you- do in a situation such as this, hrrm?

[Forest Junkie]

Oh gosh darnit. FJ forgot to add the poll option "Other", where one could insert their sure to be witty comment! Ah well, have at it, and play make-believe that the poll option exists.

[Bestatte]

For me it really depends on the situation. If I'm at the bar on the east wall, and "someone" does something near the east wall, then I might try and see if I can notice him. I wouldn't scan in that case though.

If someone passes by ME and brushes against my clothes..then yeah I'll scan. Because my character will know someone's gotten THAT close to her and she'll consider it a potential threat.

The same if someone gets too close to whoever I'm guarding, if I'm guarding someone.

Other than that though, probably not.

[spawnloser]

I'm with Bestatte...if the emote is something that my character would notice, I'll respond as appropriate to the situation.  If the emote isn't, then I ignore it.  That simple.  Seriously, your character didn't see the person that made that emote happen...therefore, there should be no response unless it was something that would clue the character in.

[Carnage]

For me it really depends on the situation. If I'm at the bar on the east wall, and "someone" does something near the east wall, then I might try and see if I can notice him. I wouldn't scan in that case though.

If someone passes by ME and brushes against my clothes..then yeah I'll scan. Because my character will know someone's gotten THAT close to her and she'll consider it a potential threat.

The same if someone gets too close to whoever I'm guarding, if I'm guarding someone.

Other than that though, probably not.

When you're in a crowded tavern, people are probably going to bump and jostle you. I don't give the room a good search and look over every time someone rubs against me.

[Forest Junkie]

Nod. Good points on both sides. =P

Any opinion from the staff on this matter?

[mansa]

I shat my pants.

Seriously.

I freak out, when I see 'someone'.

Simply because, it might be an IMMORTAL.  And Immortals make me pee.

[Louten]

For me it really depends on the situation. If I'm at the bar on the east wall, and "someone" does something near the east wall, then I might try and see if I can notice him. I wouldn't scan in that case though.

If someone passes by ME and brushes against my clothes..then yeah I'll scan. Because my character will know someone's gotten THAT close to her and she'll consider it a potential threat.

The same if someone gets too close to whoever I'm guarding, if I'm guarding someone.

Other than that though, probably not.

When you're in a crowded tavern, people are probably going to bump and jostle you. I don't give the room a good search and look over every time someone rubs against me.

Even though IRL I don't 'scan' when someone jostles me, I usually tend to give my ass a quick tap to make sure my wallet's still there.

[Anonymous]

First, you made a bad example. A hidden person wouldn't emote crossing his arms.  Unless he wanted to be spotted. If you're hidden, no one would see you crossing your arms. Therefore, I stick to emoting echoes when I utilize hide.

[Rindan]

I hate to be the cruel voice of decent, but if someone emotes like that I don't really care if someone stands up and starts scanning.  This is a coded game, and if you want to announce your presence, I am not going to complain if someone claims they saw something in the shadows and start getting paranoid.  Why do I say this?  I say this because I generally find hidden emotes that can't be responded to inconsiderate.

[rant]
When you hidden emote like that, you put everyone who is there in a very annoying position.  They know know something OOCly and don't know something ICly.  It is jarring to have to sit there and play through while you OOCly realize a thief or assassin could be getting ready to have his way or over hearing an important conversation.  Granted, you should be able to ignore the disconnect as we often do, but it still isn't appreciated.  It is like if one of my subordinates OOCly told me that they were going to kill me.  I would be annoyed that I didn't get to discover this along side my character.  It can be played through, but it is jarring and something to be avoided in my opinion.  It is something of a mini-plot spolier in my opinion, and general not appreciated.

The more serious problem that hidden emoting brings is that you are now placed in a position where you might be forced to react unrealistically or be called a twink.  Consider having a secret conversation some where.  You are paranoid.  Suddenly you see a hidden emote.  Now, you might have been getting ready to scan or take proper steps to ensure you are alone.  Now if you do this, you are going to be labeled a twink.  Having someone announce their presence means that doing anything about it is 'twinkish', even though you might have already decided to do something.  Hell, I know there have been times when I am doing something, a hairs on the back of my neck sticks, and I check to make sure I am alone.  Once someone has announced themselves, you are robbed of the ability play a little paranoid.  You are robbed of being able to react on gut instinct because it is no longer a gut instinct.  You know someone is there now, and you know if you take proper steps you will find them.  In essence, when you hidden emote, you potentially force your victim to either act like a twink and get someone complaining on the boards about people scanning after they hidden emote, or go out of character and not react to a gut instinct.

That is not to say that all hidden emoting is bad, but as a general rule I don't hidden emote unless it is something someone can respond to.  If you would be pissed off if someone responded to it, do everyone a favor and don't emote, just think it.  For that reason, if someone decides to cross their arms while they are hidden or what not, that is fair game in my opinion to claim you saw something suspicious moving in the shadows.  Assuming that you saw something funny puts you and your character back on the same footing.

[/rant]

[Gorobei]

Personally, I haven't seen anyone freak out in the presence of 'someone' for months.  Most of the time someone makes an emote, everyone else is rather calm and collected, in my opinion.

[Forest Junkie]

My apologies Rindan.  I did not know I was complaining on this thread, if, in fact, you were referring to me in your post.

[Rindan]

I was not refering to anyone one instances in particular and don't recall any instance of it happening to me in a while.  I don't mean to offend if anyone gets their kicks that way, I just personally greatly dislike it for the above reasons.

[JollyGreenGiant]

Most of the time, if someone emotes while hidden, I have no problem with any given reaction.  I might ignore it.  I might stand up and scan.  I might emote looking around, but not actually use the scan skill.  Whatever seems appropriate to the situation, basically.

In the instance of the guy folding his arms and leaning against the tavern wall... it's a crowded tavern.  I'd probably ignore it.  In the instance of a clandestine meeting, and someone emotes crossing their arms, I'll probably emote and say something to indicate I heard something suspicious, then scan.  If someone casually brushes by me in a crowded street, I might emote looking around, fingering a weapon, something to that effect.

I think any reaction is acceptable.  If someone emotes instead of thinks while hidden, I don't think they've got any room to complain about the results.

[Callisto]

I voted shit my pantaloons - my golden pantaloons.

In never effects my character, but I will admit it makes me nervous.

Sometimes it is just another one of those newbie 'rinth assassins looking to show off that they have, in fact, succeeded in using the hide skill and that I should fear their mad skills. However, it could be the Sage or a Sage-like person... and I will leave it at that.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Once more, I'll advocate the ability to emote while hidden. I feel a need to emote while hidden, often, and it annoys me when I cannot because it will draw OOC attention to what should be IC. Yes, one can use think, but it just is not the same thing.

[Quirk]

A "secret emote" command that displayed the emote only to those capable of seeing the PC would be a fine thing. But everyone's said this time and again, so the only reason I can see for there not being one is that it must be awkward to implement with the code as it currently stands.

Quirk

[Anonymous]

A "secret emote" command that displayed the emote only to those capable of seeing the PC would be a fine thing. But everyone's said this time and again, so the only reason I can see for there not being one is that it must be awkward to implement with the code as it currently stands.

I agree.  I think maybe either there's something I'm missing or there's confusion about the idea of a hidden emote.

Basically, anyone who could look in the room and see the hidden person would also see the emotes.

It makes perfect sense to me because there would be no grey area as to whether or not you were being twinkish for noticing something and hidden PCs might feel more free to emote.

How cool would it be to see hidden emotes of a cloaked figure sneaking up from behind a noble that you hated, and doing your level best to keep that noble from turning around?

[Xygax]

Rindan basically voiced my perspective on this perfectly.

As for myself, when "Someone" starts emoting, I usually get up and leave the room (after checking my inventory as someone else mentioned above), as this is how I typically handle what I consider jarring RP by the players around me.

-- X

[Bestatte]

I really think it depends on what "someone" is emoting. I also think people are quick to jump to conclusions and make blanket statements or decisions on how they'd react to something, and don't consider the "it depends" answer nearly enough.

If I see:

Someone chucks a rotten petoch fruit in the rangy ranger's direction from the back of the angry crowd.

I'm gonna RP with that. It's totally reasonable, it isn't twinkish at all in my opinion, and it's fun IC comedy.

If I see:

Someone waves at you.

I'm gonna be annoyed OOCly, because if my character -does- notice that someone is waving at her, she's also gonna notice a little more detail than just "someone."

So again, it depends.

[Supreme Allah]

As for myself, when "Someone" starts emoting, I usually get up and leave the room (after checking my inventory as someone else mentioned above), as this is how I typically handle what I consider jarring RP by the players around me.

I hope you were joking, X.

Your character wouldn't get up or check his inventory due to actions he didn't notice. In a crowded tavern, I imagine several VNPCs brush by your chair every hour, but the instant a player is courteous enough to emote doing it you abuse OOC knowledge of the situation and scramble away?Nothing personal, but that's probably the most twinky thing I've ever seen someone confess to on these boards.

Think about it - what does your character know? That someone touched their cloak. What do you know? That (OMGWTF) a PC tried to thief me, time to bail and check pockets ASAP! Screw roleplay, I might have lost my ph4t l00tz!

I've been stolen from before - and courteously given an emote or two togo along with it - and despite my knowledge of the situation, my character never batted an eye. Someone touched his shoulder and he did little but cast a quick glance in that direction before brushing the situation off and returning to his conversation without a second thought.

I'm not trying to come off as "holier than thou", but for an immortal to advocate the blatant abuse of OOC knowledge really offends me.

[Malifaxis]

Someone chucks a rotten petoch fruit in the rangy ranger's direction from the back of the angry crowd.

Muahahahhahahahaha.  Thanks, B.

Personally, I judge it on the circumstances.  If the emote is somehow obvious, or in what I determine to be my characters range of vision, then perhaps I'll emote that I catch some motion.

But I never, ever, get up and start scanning.  Well, okay, I HAVE in the past, but I won't now or again... those were during my newb days.  Well... my earlier newb days, since I'm still a newb, and will be until I die IRL (at which point I hope to have karma and come back as something cool... like a cat.  Or a lemur.  Lemur rock.  As long as it's not a french lemur... but I digress.)

If your PC is standing, on guard, or on watch at the bar or something, sure, stand up and scan, no skin off my back.  It's just not something I would do.  Unless I were standing, on guard, or on watch at the bar or something.

Sorry, 2:30 on Thursday, been drunk for two hours.  I ramble.

[grog]

I once had a dwarf merchant who was robbed blind, he almost starved to death but managed to survive,  he turned into a paranoid little bastard.  He refused to talk to anyone in a cloak or veil, would jerk at random vnpcs, and assume that somebody brushing by him was a thief.  This was before think, and I was accused of being 'twinkish' ooc by a thiefy type one time who did that whole someone thing and had my character react to it.   (I think he was killed by that same PC and a few of his friends later I thought it was fun, paranoid delusions being proved right and all that)

My point is that it's just as twinkish to assume that said character doesn't have a reason to be paranoid.  This a place where taking a wrong step can and will kill you!  Being at least a little paranoid is a survival trait, and it could easily be an assassin as a some random thief.  

The only time I emote while sneaking or hiding is when I start doing it, or when I stop; or if enough people obviously noticed me.  (though recent posts have convinced me that I need to use think a lot more, if only to explain my actions to those who are always watching! emote glances around furtively)  Or if ooc I feel my character messed up and want to spice up life a little bit. (which I tend to do from time to time)


Someone slips on a discarded fruit peel, briefly brushing his hand against the rich ass nobles fat shoulder, and slipping back into a crowd of people.

edit
(I think I remember a thread where I posted almost this exact message a year or so back? )

[Forest Junkie]

I'm with Supreme Allah on this. Don't get up and leave, denying the situation rp. Just doesn't seem right IMO.

[Xygax]

Your character wouldn't get up or check his inventory due to actions he didn't notice.

If I didn't notice it, why did you emote it?  Or did you emote it because you want for me to arbitrarily decide whether I percieved it?  This is precisely the Catch-22 you create for your viewer when you emote while hidden.  That's why I left.  And yes, I'm serious.  You're basically telling me you've done something that by your standards of RP I'm not permitted to react to (because, you're hidden, I didn't notice "it" (where "it" is whatever you emoted), and still expecting me to stay there and endure the situation?  No thanks.

I'm with Supreme Allah on this. Don't get up and leave, denying the situation rp. Just doesn't seem right IMO.

Hmm, that's funny.  I thought I wasn't allowed to react?  Thus, no RP.  Until the code supports a "hidden emote" that is only visible to the people who can see you (via scan, perhaps or whatever other means), "Someone emoting" essentially puts the viewer into an impossible/unplayable situation.

-- X

p.s. -- Both of my posts on this subject are my perspective as a player, not staff.