Author Topic: Game Feedback Wanted  (Read 13499 times)

Dresan

  • Posts: 1687
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2021, 08:39:21 AM »
I find it interesting that the people who are more likely to play sponsored or social roles, both which have very little skill grind, are more concerned with RP opportunities for those roles, while at the bottom of the barrel people who play grebbers and hunters of the world and have to fight tooth and nail for ever tiny morsal of plot want to see coded grind go away.

I do sometimes feel the game is skewed, if a sponsored role(other than templar) want to kill an indie grebber, they should probably write an essay to staff explaining why their character is even noticing such a person, meanwhile if they want to kill another sponsored role or even a templar they merely need to write a small sentence. This is just my opniion though.

It is more of a fact that reducing the grind and tedium would instantly make me play more.

Again there is no impact to the game itself if you have to trian backstab or steal 10 times to max it or 50 times. The players will always experience the skill at max anyways. It is just a matter of how willing the player is to go through that tedium every time they want to play a 'skilled' assassin or 'thief' or crafter or whatever. On top of the fact the former still have a good chance of failing and causing death anyways.
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zeia

  • Posts: 663
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2021, 08:41:28 AM »
I know I am not alone in this, as an offpeak player, but we are very limited with catching things that go on in the game.  I have given up on getting excited about big in game happenings (such as the majority of the stuff with the war that has just happened etc), because pretty much all HRPT/RPT's are 9pm ST.  Most player made events are also the same time, which where I personally am, is 2am.

I'm not exactly complaining about this, I understand a huge portion of the players are U.S based, and thus the timing is perfect for them.  However, there also are quite a lot of us players that are in Europe, and I have always felt that staff put together RPT's as well as player made ones, should be made a little more available for us as well.

Although whilst saying that I understand most of the staff are U.S based, and thus this makes it harder.  But I would ask to make an effort to try and give more 'big' things to go on for European players to be able to take part in without having to stay up to the early hours of the morning to attend such.
This also puts a small strain upon sponsored roles that require association and collaborating with other clan leaders, that just do not have matching playtimes.
Such as an Aide as part of their job requiring to meet someone to give them x, y and z, or attending a party as is expected of them, but it's a late server time party that working around IRL job/family/ etc, isn't possible.
Such as a GMH leader needing to arrange an escort to move their wagon, and the one (or two) people within clans that are able to determine such, cannot do it for weeks on end, because the play times do not match up.

Being a player from over the pond myself, these are both struggles that I have personally had to deal with because of such.  However after 12 years of playing, I have just accepted the fact, but, it may be a large deterrent for others in the time zone to invest in playing as often as U.S players do, or, contributing as much to RP etc with their characters.  Which has been the case to several IRL friends I have tried to get in to the game.
Perhaps looking in to more offpeak staffers to set things up and monitor things for the offpeak players?


Rethinking the karma timer would be a good idea as well, I have seen quite a lot on the GDB complain about it, given that if you use your 2 points or karma to make a 2 karma'd witch for example, and for whatever reason within a day or 2 you are blessed with ye old mantis head, you then have to wait 60 days to play anything akin to it again, basically stuck with totally mundane, you cannot even use an extended subguild for said mundane.

Perhaps looking in to scrapping it and instead making it so if someone applies for another 2 karma role, so soon after say a 14 day played 2 karma role died, they can be denied on staffs end for having it put in, and the reason can be explained?  E.g sorry we would rather you play something else as there are too many 2 karma witches in game and we do not want the Known to flood with witch ick from all you damn witches.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 08:45:51 AM by zeia »
A staff member sends:
     "You can quit ooc - or if you want I can kill <character name>, that'd definitely reset it."

adri

  • Posts: 143
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2021, 11:20:42 AM »
What are some of the causes that have made you play less or not at all?

Tuluk: I've been playing here for more than a few years, but I still consider myself relatively new to the game in relation to others. I never got to experience Tuluk - and while seeing it open is exciting, it's like a contained ecosystem that gates content from a LOT of the roles I've grown accustomed to over the years. I think making it open to outsiders who aren't an obvious or well known southerner would help a bit. Some of the other clans feel empty or have players fiending for a little slice of content. Obviously, I won't point out any specifics, but Tuluk has made certain roles feel much more stagnant and I know for me that often means storage or at the very least, a drastic reduction in playtimes.

The combat grind: I love playing combat roles. I've put in the time to master weapon skills before, but it's a more than a little monotonous. Are they necessary? Nah, not at all.. I don't think any specific sighting of the mantis head could've been prevented by a higher rank of weapon skill, not for me anyway. That being said, it is a nice little goal to set even if the avenues provided to reach said goal are limited. I'm not sure what can be done.. because making it 'easy' really isn't the answer. Maybe just making it less reliant on other players is the way to go? Not every character is designed to be a mercenary or a soldier, so having them pursue those careers as a precursor to coming into their own as a concept gets a little stale and creates a vicious cycle of repetition. While it IS a choice, it often doesn't feel like one to me. You either put in a lot of time or you put in substantially more time - which to our community is already a valuable commodity.

Character creation: There are some times where I just feel like the random stats system is out to get me, despite knowing it's random and being able to prioritize my rolls. I'm not so much talking about needing to have amazing stats to enjoy a role as feeling like my description isn't appropriate or instantly wishing I'd prioritized another way. I don't know how this would be fixed, but realizing your badass looking, musclebound hunter can't hold a bottle of wine is just.. lol. How do you even explain having the strength of a newborn IC?

Promotions: I saw this mentioned somewhere, and I get that it should take time or it lessens the meaning behind the ranks within a clan, but there was a time when I've been the only member of a particular clan without the power to recruit and I was told I'd have to wait on a promotion, despite having a player interested in joining and my characters sole focus being promoted within the ranks of a clan. I just think there's room to budge here on a case by case basis.


What are some changes you think would benefit the game and draw more people - new and returning?

Advertising: Coming from someone who had never heard about RPIs or muds until they were already considered on the decline, I'm not even sure how this would be done.

Racial Choice: It's a harsh world filled with prejudice. I've met what I presume are new players who started as a half-elf. That's gotta be difficult. I think reccomending somewhere that they start as a human would be a start, due to the social structure of the game. A small change, but when your first PC is being hazed or flat out ignored without even a response to their emotes rather than helped, I think it can be more than a little jarring.


What sort of things should do we more of?

Animations: I realize that some of these take planning, scheduling, staff effort. Some of my favorite times in Armageddon have been plots that involve staff animations. One of my first magickers manifested years ago with staff assistance simply because I had it set as an objective. It made the world feel alive. From the actual animations to the players around me reacting, it was just an amazing little contained experience that stuck with me. I do understand you're all volunteers and seriously, I've had some absolutely amazing interactions here. I'm not saying that you don't do enough, I just want to point out that I've been in some clans with heavy, frequent animation and then in others, I've seen almost nothing at all. Again, not a slight at staff, it's just a ton of fun when it happens and in the past, has dictated which clans I want to play in.

QoL: Amazing, guys. All of this has been great! Keep up the good work here.

Unique role calls: I've seen a few of these that sound so great they make me want to store. I think it'd be cool to throw out a random antagonist role that's available for people to apply for. A Gith raider with a mean sword arm? How about the sudden rumor of a rogue Elkrosian stalking the Red Desert? Just random ideas, but it'd be cool to see some really unique and exciting things thrown out there.. even if I don't get them.


What sort of things should we do less of?

I'm not sure what to say here. I suppose sometimes I've felt a little stifled in what effect I can have on the world, but then I've talked to other characters who are out there doing things I'd have never thought possible. Maybe it isn't even true, who knows. I just know there have been times where I've felt other players have much more unique opportunities than I've had. That being said, I was also a part of a very unique situation once myself - it was amazing.

Having said all of that, I love this game. Thanks for volunteering to make it what it is. We do appreciate it.

mansa

  • Posts: 10516
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2021, 11:21:51 AM »
What are some of the causes that have made you play less or not at all?
What are some changes you think would benefit the game and draw more people - new and returning?
What sort of things should do we more of?
What sort of things should we do less of?



Before replying, please keep these rules in mind:
  • Don't share sensitive recent IC info.
  • Don't air dirty laundry.
  • Do be honest and open but do so in a respectful way and try to be constructive in your criticism.


What are some of the causes that have made you play less or not at all?
I have an idea as to what I want to accomplish, and then when I get in game there isn't enough players in my zone to help me accomplish what I had in mind.

I want to play something unique, but I also don't want to play something overwhelmingly unique that it becomes a standard that other players adapt to when playing in that zone.

These really summarize up by my choices of progression and satisfaction...  What makes me enjoy doing something.  And sometimes they don't align with the core aspect of what I think the game should be and have.   That's pretty interesting because there's the game world concept in my own head, and my own character concept in my own head that may be at odds.

What are some changes you think would benefit the game and draw more people - new and returning?
1) Web Client   [New Player]
2) Web Character Application
3) Pre-defined character concepts that a new player can join in:  [New Player]
   Pick your eye color
   Pick your hair color and style
   Pick your body shape
   Pick your height
   Pick your race
   Pick your background from one of 4 backgrounds:
      Fighter from a small village
      City general laborer
      Rich commoner with a merchant background
      Poor thief

   We have now created:
      This <race> is <height> cords tall, and has a <body shape> figure.
      Their eyes are <eye color> and their <hair color> hair is styled like <hair style>
       
      sdesc:   The <eye color>-eyed, <body shape> <race>

      Background:  Insert general background

4) Publish a log on how to interact with the general quests in the game.  This could even be an interactive log OR a video.  [New Player]
      Hunting
      Skinning
      Collecting Dung
      Foraging for Rocks
      Using a Pickaxe / Glasshacker
      Renting an Apartment
      Using the Bank
      Buying raw materials and crafting them into something
      Selling items to NPCs

5) [Policy Change] - Allowing stories to be shared that are 6 months old that may contain events of currently living characters
6) [Policy Change] - Publish current leader PCs of the Important Clans to the Game function in the Cities in a stickied post on the GDB.
7) Continue to move IC BOARD POSTS to the Archive - https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/board,165.0.html

What sort of things should do we more of?
Communicate with the players with the decisions and intents of upcoming changes.   See -> "A small peek behind the curtain." thread.   It was published BEFORE these things got put into game, not after.
As an elder, I want to help out the game, even though I'm not on staff.

What sort of things should we do less of?
The void of sending in a request and not having any form of communication until a decision is made on the request.   This is incredibly hard when I have a request for over 7 days and had no acknowledgement that someone has even glimpsed at it.
I don't want requests to be resolved sooner.  I want to know that someone has at least looked at it.
New Players Guide: http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,33512.0.html


You win Armageddon, congratulations!  Type 'credits', then store your character and make a new one

Pariah

  • Posts: 311
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2021, 11:31:54 AM »
To emphasis something Mansa said.

The request tool void is horrible.  I totally get that they are busy and have probably a metric shit ton of these but the fact some take a month and others take one day with no work in progress?  It’s sorta jarring.

In reality I think there is probably talk back and forth in staff chats, private boards etc etc about the request but we don’t see that work.

I think it would be more impactful if we did.

So say Special Apps for example:

You submit.

First staffer: I think he could easily handle this.
Second staffer: He’s sorta a tool, remember when he ran around typing hunt ten times an hour twinking?
First staffer: Good point but he doesn’t seem to do that with his crafts, he crafts to fail a few times a day and lets it go, pretty realistic.
Etc etc back and forth as a sorta log you see in the request and then when they eventually say yes or no it’ provides feedback to grow with or a feeling of accomplishment.

Not to mention a log of the request so it’s not just. “Can I…” and “No”
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 11:46:15 AM by Pariah »

Dresan

  • Posts: 1687
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2021, 11:37:06 AM »
One thing I would like to add is that I would love to see is mroe stable RP standards  between staff members.

This is an old example but:One high level staff member once said that if they didn't intend for backstab to be used on animals they could easily change the code to reflect that so there was no issue doing it it. Meanwhile other staff member sees someone backstabing an animal and gives them shit about it before threatening to dock a karma points.

There is too much left to individual interpretation and it varies widly between staff members so more consensus between staff on RP standards would prevent a lot of heartache.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 11:45:20 AM by Dresan »
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RavingTregils

  • Posts: 22
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2021, 12:45:46 PM »
I have about a month free and decided to give a character a good attempt. I mean, trying hard not to forget the pearls while
spending so many hours shucking oysters. Deciding that upfront because it is not easy.

What are some of the causes that have made you play less or not at all?

1. Interruptions are killing me. Seems like I sit down and 3 minutes later I have something I have to stop the game to do.
   
2. I'm with X-D in not liking the new guilds but that's an old player problem.
   Scout is ok but without brew it's dead in the water. Useless for getting too far from civilization.
   Stalker was too weak.   
   I can't make myself roll up another scout or stalker.
   Too bad, I really wanted to spend this month in Tuluk like the old days, a good PVE hunter pc. Not seeing it in the current lineup.

What are some changes you think would benefit the game and draw more people - new and returning?
   
3. Documentation (see stoicreader's OOC-FOIC comment). I go to the help files first. Instead of having players search GDB posts, Discord, or videos, don't spread information out: work on the help files.
Some examples that have sent me scrambling to figure out what is going on:

   Skinning - apparently some animals are not a failure. Even when you fail. Never knew that.

   Ride - asked this awhile back on the gdb. Is the level of skill needed in two-handed/dual/shield to ride really a FOIC secret?
      
   Spell problem - had the help file of a spell fixed awhile back too. Just gave up and stored that PC.
   
   Break vs Open vs Use X - plenty of "guess the correct the command" still in the game.
      
4. RNG is not needed in some instances:
   Forage - it takes long enough without the "You find nothing"
   Clean your bloody clothes - Clean or stain - not clean or stain or try again x 10.
   I don't like crafting. Master blah. Make easy blah. Even grab a tool. FAIL.
      What is the point to failing "easy" recipes? How about no RNG if it's easy?
   I don't like magic. Cast blah that I never will use and have no idea what it's good for but hey might branch x 1000.
                 Useless spells/skills never seem to fail. Someone mentioned removing branches - amen.

5. Game is too slow
   Halfway through my month of playing and I have >6 days played. PC still sucks.
   
I've played off and on for many years and the RP is the magic. It's the pearl that keeps a player coming back. In my younger days, I'd suffer a lot of tedious gameplay to get to the good stuff. Now it's a harder to stay motivated.

roughneck

  • Posts: 927
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2021, 01:28:56 PM »
Reasons why Arm is no longer my favourite go-to entertainment. I understand some of this is me just not changing with the game.

1. Change to brew, making it over-complicated

Doctor9

  • Posts: 34
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2021, 01:35:33 PM »
What are some of the causes that have made you play less or not at all?

Real-life happened and I was marked auto-away. I died from thirst like an idiot near water, and the death struck me as one without verisimilitude - which disappointed me.
This definitely put a big warning sign up in front of me: I have terrible sleeping patterns as a writer and it seems a bit like holding my character over a wastebasket til my arms get tired in that regard, as it is a very real danger to the character if I pass out even a few hours by accident: while still being logged in.


What are some changes you think would benefit the game and draw more people - new and returning?

Lessen the degree of thirst/hunger attrition when marked as auto-away? Not as manually marked away - that would be crazy.
 But if we're automatically not there, we'll have to roleplay with the issues our idleness already caused: instead, it just kept ticking down my life til I was told I had died to thirst over a period of time. Justify it as not burning calories or not kicking a fella while he's down already, or don't; this was my only feedback though.
And this goes back to interruptions: they make it too dangerous at times to risk playing for many reasons, this being none-the-least I'm sure - especially if you have a family and can be yanked at anytime into reality.

As I told a friend of mine who GMs Deadlands, a game where you are going to die - it's in the name: every story has to end. It's just how and -why- it ends that ought to matter. So yeah, we'll die without a week of water or a month of food and take adverse effects from these within days.  I can totally grok why making someone fall asleep or even into a coma (where they can still use psi) could be too advantageous. Even why lessening the nutrition attrition rate at all during auto-away would distend the realism.

Pushing up the daisies to being AFK is almost as ignominious as rocks falling, especially when if I was at the terminal I'd walk a few tiles and take care of character bio needs. I would use the metaphor of kicking a person while they're down to explain they've already taken the debuffs from hunger and thirst until they were marked auto-away, meaning something completely unplanned has occured anyway or they would have marked themselves as away. It's quite easy to just slip into death at that point, depending on how long you are away.

What sort of things should do we more of?
Drink more water?

What sort of things should we do less of?
Don't bother yourself over the past. We can't get back what we've lost, but we can always grow.
(Seriously: I'm too new to offer concise answers to these questions, but may edit them in the future)
"Keep your friends close, but your enemies toaster."

Brytta Léofa

  • Posts: 1121
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2021, 02:59:07 PM »
Gonna throw this out there: it's true that I'm somewhat busy as a grown-ass person, but it's much more relevant that I make time for Arm when I'm hooked. That happens when I get the right combo of PC, location, and playmates--and, tbh, the first two are the most important for me.

One thing that's changed for me over the last decade: I really don't seem to enjoy playing in Allanak anymore (outside of the Byn). Interaction isn't always easy to find anywhere, but I'd rather perambulate around the wilderness enjoying myself while looking for it than roam the city. And I really don't enjoy the commoner vs. noble/templar dynamic anymore, though I used to.

Some game recommendations - just my well-intentioned opinion:

(1) For getting new players, the web page to gameplay pipeline needs a big overhaul, probably including web-based character creation and a good websockets client.

(2) Staff, I think you guys are really encumbered by the procedures around the request tool. The point was to create more consistency and accountability. I think you should trade off some of that...tbh, most of that...for increased agility. Most of the cases that need discussion or admin approval--maybe y'all should just let the storytellers run wild with that stuff, with the admins just checking up on things and making minor tweaks. I know there's some downside, but there's tremendous upside. This relates to the several complaints about the slowness and no-ness of getting answers from staff.

(Also, this "reduced oversight" idea is something y'all could try by degrees, with no announcement, and see if you like it.)
<Maso> I thought you were like...a real sweet lady.

Dar

  • Posts: 1859
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2021, 03:31:39 PM »
What are some of the causes that have made you play less or not at all?

Real-life happened and I was marked auto-away. I died from thirst like an idiot near water, and the death struck me as one without verisimilitude - which disappointed me.
This definitely put a big warning sign up in front of me: I have terrible sleeping patterns as a writer and it seems a bit like holding my character over a wastebasket til my arms get tired in that regard, as it is a very real danger to the character if I pass out even a few hours by accident: while still being logged in.

Hello. Have you discussed any of this with staff? Currently, hunger/thirst stops ticking down after a rl hour of being away.  I've fallen asleep, or had to rush out countless of times and my character did not die of thirst/hunger.   This wasn't always the case. I think the change was made about 10 years ago.  Your character's death might've been due to a bug, or maybe some coded effect (if something makes your character auto emote, it cancels the afk countdown) that got you dead.

Attana

  • Posts: 835
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2021, 06:12:55 PM »
As a 'vet' who has been playing this game for seventeenish years with only one lengthy break, and coming back from that break only eight or so months ago - I'll give answering some of the requested questions my best.  There was a decline in playing from the community even before I took my break, but not to the extent that I see now when I log in and check who.

To start - what drew me to the game?  The grimy, grittiness, murder, corruption and betrayal.  It was rough.  It was tough and it was oh so glorious.  I was brought in by a 'vet' at the time that I was dating.  He would tell me stories of his past PC's, things he'd been a part of and seen.  It was his stories that drew me.  I had never before played any type of MUD.  I didn't know anything about code or syntax and I got really frustrated while learning it. 

What are some of the causes that have made you play less or not at all?

As I've been playing pretty consistently since I came back, I'll rewind and go back to when I stopped playing to answer this question.
  • Changes to Guilds and Subguilds.  I enjoy seeing the newest changes, but overall, I was not a big fan of this before and I still feel that there are some additional changes and skills for certain guilds that need to be tweaked and/or added.
  • The length of time it took to acquire karma.  You could lose karma in a heart beat, but submitting karma reviews and such took a /very/ long time.  There were people five years ago who had a level of karma /way/ higher than me who had been playing for just a couple years, while I had had years more playing time on them.  It felt unfair and it most definitely felt like favoritism.
  • The lack of staff animations and the push for player ran plots.  Some people thrive in being able to create their own plots, while some people thrive with a little bit of guidance and nudges here and there.
  • The closure of Tuluk - this seemed to me to cause several players to lose interest and leave the game, as well as cut down on the level of conflict in the game world.
  • Removing being a hunter or other special division for GMHs from play. Without having these ranks open and limiting a GMH to an Agent, Merchant and crafter only seems to leave any avenues for nefarious plots and fueding between GMH's and others with very few people to move and shake.

What are some changes you think would benefit the game and draw more people - new and returning?
  • Advertising.
  • Cutting back on the time limit for sharing stories of PC's, current and deceased.  It's the stories that will entice people and draw them in.  But are you going to be excited for something that happened well over a year ago and isn't currently going on?
  • Update the helpfiles and documentation.  This is a lifeline for newbie players.  Old helpfile are still there and only serve to confuse new and returning players like myself.  Add "What you know as a commoner" helpfiles with easy access for newbies on: Tableland PCs, Luir's PC's, Tuluk PC's, Nak PC's, and Redstorm.
  • Update discord to be more than just a general chat, and/or create clan specific servers moderated by current staffer.  I'm sure it could be useful for people to have a faster avenue of communication with their fellow clan members instead of having to rely on them checking the GDB.  I have ran a couple discord servers, this could be easily set up and not too difficult or time consuming to moderate.  If I were a leader PC in a clan and had a spur of the moment RPT, I could definitely find it beneficial to ping the clan server to make arrangements easier - especially considering that some players might log in, see no one and log back out and not be aware that their current PC leader is in the middle of trying to arrange something fun.
  • Open up who c for more than just leadership PC's in clans.  All too often people log in looking for interaction in their current clans, and because they don't see anyone with their own two eyes, they log off.  Expecting the players to pull up the GDB and grab a list of names and try contacting them is just a waste of the time that our current playerbase is already saying they don't have that much of.
  • Restrict actual newbies to easier races.  Running across half-elves and elves that are obvious newbies, and lets face it, newbies often need to be treated with kid gloves, and having to have my elf hating PC treat them differently than they would normally breaks immersion.  I want to help the newbie and retain them to keep playing, I don't want to have the fact that my prejudiced PC being mean and nasty to them pushes them away.
  • Create a quicker app process as has been mentioned.
  • Create an expansion on the newbie area in start up.  A tavern room to learn the basics of sitting at a table, talking at a table.  A room for learning the emoting basics.  A room for learning combat basics with maybe a couple super easy npcs and/or just a dummy, with prompts on learning ep, rp, etwo, change opponent, mercy, nosave combat, etc.  Make this mandatory for accounts that are obviously new.
  • Make it easier to create player clans IG.  Yes, you can create player clans IG, hunting groups so on and so forth, but to actually get to any level of success in it for a warehouse and whatnot, this could take IG years., and again, time is one of the key factors in a lot of peoples issues with playing Arm.  The process to get to MMH, where you would still have to be approved by staff takes 13 IC years, roughly 9 RL months and if your PC dies, everyone else that has been a part of it has to start all over again.
  • Create a way for players to reach other players that are offline.  One of the most frustrating things is having contact with someone who's play times are different than yours, and needing to pass a message and being unable to reach them.  Or trying to set up some IG event with someone, but again, playtimes aren't aligned.  While you yourself are logged off due to RL, your PC is still around IG doing their normal routine and for all intents and purposes should know that Lord Fancypants wants to request a meeting to discuss his rash ointment cream at your earliest availability.

What sort of things should do we more of?
  • More staff animations.  It's the staff animations for even little mundane things that get people all a titter.  You don't have to animate the bartender and have an hour long conversation with me, toss out some room emotes, animate a VNPC whore coming over to hit on me.  If I'm in a clan, toss something into the latrines, if I'm riding through the sands, bring in a gith that doesn't auto-attack and have a five minute emoting sesh.  Or have a clan superior doll out tasks every so often.
  • More staff plots.
  • Be more forgiving to players that want to come back, but have had a history of issues.  We're already a dwindling playerbase, and refusing to allow people with histories to have another chance only succeeds in keeping our numbers low.  Sure they might be argumentative, think they're always right, said some things in the heat of the moment over a characters issue or death - but that might be just because they truly cared about that PC or situation.  Retaining the playerbase should be the priority over all else.  Dock karma, restrict access to certain roles, but don't just push them away.
  • Moderate the discord better.  I have not seen a clear set of rules posted on the discord about behavior and so forth.  Players should be treated equally and fair when issues arise.

What sort of things should we do less of?
  • Stop pushing the FOIC, when it comes to questions from newer players that the current player base already knows, or PC's starting in certain areas should know.
  • The above also pertains to crafting systems in play that players have already had plenty of time to learn and master.  Brew being one of those.
  • Making things harder to learn and do.

After knocking back a mouthful of the contents of a full shot-glass, toking away on a rolled joint directly afterwards you say in desert-accented sirihish:
"They call me Tuber, and my son is Tuber-tot."

Doctor9

  • Posts: 34
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2021, 06:31:28 PM »

I didn't try that but I definitely will: even if it's just because that character had a good story going. Thanks for the advice: that does kind of help dampen the sting of the issue knowing intervention is possible.
"Keep your friends close, but your enemies toaster."

Gentleboy

  • Posts: 534
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2021, 06:53:26 PM »
I haven’t read all of this and I’m on my phone, so I can only speak as to what I’ve been feeling lately.


There is a huge split for me between the people who play collaboratively, selfishly, and for mechanics. I’m tired of playing the nice guy who tries to find something for everyone when the opposite doesn’t happen for me often.

The game is extremely heteronormative and the gendered roles people put themselves in is annoying and frustrating. I cannot get a romance plot if I play a gay male, often. And I love romance.

It’s like a pick and choose for what themes need to be followed and what themes don’t. And it depends on the staffer.

I run into the same character tropes often. And for those who change it up, they get killed. But hey, high risk, high reward.

The way other players god mode on my characters. Especially bards. I cannot tell you all how many times I’ve sat in a bar with a song and emotes I put time in for an entire clan of people to tell me, “I suck at playing.” That really sucks. It’s based on the emote of me strumming and people ask me if a gortok is playing when I have in my background that my pc has been playing so and so instrument for years. That kind of roleplaying I keep seeing. It’s not cool or funny.


Jihelu

  • Posts: 3174
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2021, 07:22:05 PM »
Something I was reminded of when mentioned:

Some of the FOIC questions and answers I've seen are silly.

Can we please just post some more information, especially information you would know as a citizen of a place?
We should have detailed 'what you know about X' place, with FAQs, that gets added to when important questions get asked (By request tool, or on the forums).
'I've been interested in playing in Tuluk, how do they feel about -topic-'
'Foic'
The fuck does that mean?
If I'm a 30 year old Tuluki, if I'm a 12 year old Tuluki, I should be able to easily answer the following
1: How do they feel about non-magical superstition (Fortune tellers, buying trinkets for 'safety against magic', etc)
2: How do they feel about listless (Where do they come from [Or where do people think they come from], general attitudes, maybe even what lies under their mask [Someone is bound to have just removed their masks or have found a dead one, though perhaps this could be a very quick 'wish up' if you found a dead one...I doubt you'd get a quick response])
3: How's city life been in the past X years?
And probably more.
Some of these, we have sparse answers scattered around. For Listless, I believe Mansa had to more or less compile from like 3 different places the loosest information we have on them (When really they should have an entire section on one of the Tuluki places, they seem to be something that might be important for a Tuluki to understand)

Though this is just a loose example. Other big things...
Whats that pit in Allanak for? I know what the pit is for, most people know what the pit is for, what about a newbie? Guy rolls up a 40 year old Nakki, clay worker, been in Nak and the outside village his whole life...walks by the pit and can only go 'damn I wonder what that is'.

Pariah

  • Posts: 311
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2021, 07:24:21 PM »
...
The way other players god mode on my characters. Especially bards. I cannot tell you all how many times I’ve sat in a bar with a song and emotes I put time in for an entire clan of people to tell me, “I suck at playing.” That really sucks. It’s based on the emote of me strumming and people ask me if a gortok is playing when I have in my background that my pc has been playing so and so instrument for years. That kind of roleplaying I keep seeing. It’s not cool or funny.
You can't control how others feel about your roleplay, specifically icly.

This is a harsh, cruel world, people are gonna be mean, rude and inconsiderate to your character, it's just how it is.

To say that "I wrote my background that I'm a good lute player!" and expect people who can't see your background, or know it to respect that is not something that's going to happen.

While I personally only like the ranger-ish type of play, and don't really get the purely "social" play, I don't really care for bards, just throwing out lots of emotes in my face and forcing feeling upon me.  I would say the good ones are good at describing the music without telling me how I feel about it.

"Dude plays the lute with a halting rhythm and a stomp of his foot to the beat." is okay.

"Dude plays a haunting tune that brings a tear to those around him." is power emoting and I hate it.

So while I'm not telling you don't play bards, don't expect everyone to "care" you're playing a bard.

Gentleboy

  • Posts: 534
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2021, 07:38:31 PM »
...
The way other players god mode on my characters. Especially bards. I cannot tell you all how many times I’ve sat in a bar with a song and emotes I put time in for an entire clan of people to tell me, “I suck at playing.” That really sucks. It’s based on the emote of me strumming and people ask me if a gortok is playing when I have in my background that my pc has been playing so and so instrument for years. That kind of roleplaying I keep seeing. It’s not cool or funny.
You can't control how others feel about your roleplay, specifically icly.

This is a harsh, cruel world, people are gonna be mean, rude and inconsiderate to your character, it's just how it is.

To say that "I wrote my background that I'm a good lute player!" and expect people who can't see your background, or know it to respect that is not something that's going to happen.

While I personally only like the ranger-ish type of play, and don't really get the purely "social" play, I don't really care for bards, just throwing out lots of emotes in my face and forcing feeling upon me.  I would say the good ones are good at describing the music without telling me how I feel about it.

"Dude plays the lute with a halting rhythm and a stomp of his foot to the beat." is okay.

"Dude plays a haunting tune that brings a tear to those around him." is power emoting and I hate it.

So while I'm not telling you don't play bards, don't expect everyone to "care" you're playing a bard.


Right. I don’t roleplay like that. I think it’s wrong to rp how other people feel. But for these social roles, it’s like, big.

Imagine you put a ton of work writing a nice ambiguous hunting emote. Pulls back the arrow on the sinew, breathes in hard and then releases, allowing the arrow to go free.

And someone shouts at you “your form sucks! Quit being a hunter!”

Pariah

  • Posts: 311
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2021, 08:06:10 PM »
...
The way other players god mode on my characters. Especially bards. I cannot tell you all how many times I’ve sat in a bar with a song and emotes I put time in for an entire clan of people to tell me, “I suck at playing.” That really sucks. It’s based on the emote of me strumming and people ask me if a gortok is playing when I have in my background that my pc has been playing so and so instrument for years. That kind of roleplaying I keep seeing. It’s not cool or funny.
You can't control how others feel about your roleplay, specifically icly.

This is a harsh, cruel world, people are gonna be mean, rude and inconsiderate to your character, it's just how it is.

To say that "I wrote my background that I'm a good lute player!" and expect people who can't see your background, or know it to respect that is not something that's going to happen.

While I personally only like the ranger-ish type of play, and don't really get the purely "social" play, I don't really care for bards, just throwing out lots of emotes in my face and forcing feeling upon me.  I would say the good ones are good at describing the music without telling me how I feel about it.

"Dude plays the lute with a halting rhythm and a stomp of his foot to the beat." is okay.

"Dude plays a haunting tune that brings a tear to those around him." is power emoting and I hate it.

So while I'm not telling you don't play bards, don't expect everyone to "care" you're playing a bard.


Right. I don’t roleplay like that. I think it’s wrong to rp how other people feel. But for these social roles, it’s like, big.

Imagine you put a ton of work writing a nice ambiguous hunting emote. Pulls back the arrow on the sinew, breathes in hard and then releases, allowing the arrow to go free.

And someone shouts at you “your form sucks! Quit being a hunter!”
People emote when they hunt?

Just kidding busting your balls.

But if they did, I'd look at the same way I do crazy people who yell stupid shit at me in real life.

Fuck that guy and go on with life.

Halaster

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 2828
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2021, 08:07:41 PM »
Let's avoid critiquing each other's feedback, that's not what this thread is for.  They have their opinion as to what they want to see changed/done/not-done and I'd rather not see those discouraged because people are afraid they'll be argued with.
Halaster


Void

  • Posts: 165
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2021, 09:05:29 PM »
I'll jump in and say there needs to be a way to train skills offline. It would be slow of course, but it's the only alternative to requiring a certain amount of twinking before you can actually RP your role properly (assuming its a combat type).

triste

  • Posts: 1352
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2021, 10:21:13 PM »
Quote
The game is extremely heteronormative and the gendered roles people put themselves in is annoying and frustrating. I cannot get a romance plot if I play a gay male, often. And I love romance
This feedback made me giggle because I agree but it's something we probably can't change. I don't know how we can be the change besides recruiting more gays. As much as I love the idea that I am able to convince people to be gay, and as many times as people have told me I made them gay IRL (as a joke but also not), ya can't just turn people queer and make them comfortable with queer role play.

I just wanna say I adore you Gentleboy. I remember you complained about this around when you started. I made a gay character FOR YOU but alas he died of the plague.
ARMAGEDDON SKILL PICKER THING: https://tristearmageddon.github.io/arma-guild-picker/
message me if something there needs an update.

Dresan

  • Posts: 1687
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2021, 11:19:34 PM »
The game is extremely heteronormative and the gendered roles people put themselves in is annoying and frustrating. I cannot get a romance plot if I play a gay male, often. And I love romance.

As the population has shrunk I think the room for many types of RP including romance has dwindle down for everyone. However, back before the war and tuluk closing down when the population was 70~ at peak I can tell you there were noticably more gay character around. And they always had lovers in addition to whatever other RP they wanted.

I think as the population grows again so will all kinds of RP opportunities. Though be careful what you wish for...happiness in zalanthas is fleeting.  8)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 11:36:06 PM by Dresan »
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WarriorPoet

  • Posts: 4845
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2021, 11:33:32 PM »
As a comfortably hetero male RL, I have had 2 IG same-sex romantic partners in the past. Just fyi. The larger story can lead to interesting places, be it sex, violence, blood magick, or a glorious combination of them all. Put this in the category of why I keep playing.
We were somewhere near the Shield Wall, on the edge of the Red Desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

Veselka

  • Posts: 1547
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2021, 11:57:00 PM »
Yeah I mean there was a time where we had 7 Nobles in Tuluk (!) and just as many in Allanak, and 2-3 Templars in each. That is indicative of how many Commoners were there as well beneath, to be able to support such a system.

Now-a-days, we are lucky to have 2-3 Nobles in each City State, and as many Templars.

Times definitely are a change-d.
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

Greve

  • Posts: 292
Re: Game Feedback Wanted
« Reply #49 on: September 18, 2021, 11:22:18 AM »
The big issue with skills is that being in a clan sucks for skillgains. Not all clans, of course; things like tribes and Crimson Winds don't really count as clans in this context. But if you join the Byn, Garrison, one of the militias, or a noble house man-at-arms clan if any are open, it slows down your skill growth to such an insane degree. Doubly so if you're not American and can't consistently play during the 8-12PM ST timeslot when practically everything happens, but even if you do play during peak hours, it can be awful. There will be entire RL days where you just mope around on your own with nothing to do and no opportunity to train your skills.

It can be okay in the Byn when it's having one of its booms, but even then it's not as effective as having the freedom to go anywhere you want anytime it suits you. It's not just about sparring but also things like ride, archery, skinning and crafting. Anytime I've joined a clan with a schedule, it seriously takes somewhere between ten and twenty times as long to raise skills to the point where they're interesting to have, compared to playing an indie ranger type or whatever. Add to this the fact that even if you do eventually manage to raise those skills to the level where they become a meaningful part of your character, these clans give you so little freedom to actually use them. How many times per month does a soldier feel the benefits of no-hands riding? Maybe four or five times? Often less. Meanwhile, for an indie, that perk pings your gamer brain's reward system at all times.

I wish two things would change for these clans:

1) You should be allowed to leave the city on your days off, and you should be allowed to have a day off whenever it suits you, within reason. Obviously if you decide not to work when there's other clan members online and in need of you, you're a shitty soldier and should be sacked. But if you log on during lunch when there isn't another player in sight, you should be allowed to just say that you have the day off, and then you should be allowed to go out for a ride or whatever. It doesn't make sense to me that pretty much everyone with any kind of military job is strictly confined to the city for the rest of their life except when their work mandates going outside. Recruits can be prohibited from leaving the city since they're still being trained and vetted, but any full member should have some freedom.
    While it can be said that this would make it less likely that there's another player in the barracks when you log in, I think it would add more activity by making these clans more appealing than it takes away by sometimes having clan members out and about. You can easily Way people to see if they're around, and it can be made a rule that you have to be back again before the gates close or anytime another clan member requests it. I don't think it would be a problem at all.

2) Something really has to be done about sparring. Unless you can spar against someone considerably more skilled than you, and can do it very often, it's so ineffective. In most cases, you simply won't have that luxury. In many cases you'll rarely get to spar at all. Many times I've played a character in one of these clans and had the opportunity to spar maybe ten times per RL week. Entire days go by where you simply don't get the chance. Sometimes a whole week can go by where you don't get to spar against someone from whom you can actually learn anything. Outside of the rare Byn boom phase, joining a military clan is possibly the very worst way to train combat skills, which is bizarre.
    I've played other RPIs where such clans simply had a scripted drill sergeant NPC that would show up during training hours and could be sparred with. I can't think of one problem that came from this feature. It fixed almost everything that's wrong with combat skill progression on Armageddon. It made the game way more palatable for off-peak players and, in turn, massively bolstered off-peak numbers. Probably player numbers in general, too--Armageddon is notoriously inhospitable to non-Americans because huge segments of the game are pretty much not active outside of the US evening. RPTs happen almost exclusively between 9PM and midnight server time. Clans are often empty until that timeslot, too. You can join the militia right now and probably stand in the barracks for six hours straight during the entire European afternoon and not see a soul. If you could go and spar with an NPC in the meantime, not only would it be a reason to stay logged in during those hours, it would also boost the chances of others doing the same.
    I really think that would be a huge part of solving the issue of everyone playing lone rangers, and of people running around fighting obscure shit for nonsensical reasons just to raise their combat skills. People don't do that because they hate the game or whatever, they do it because they've found it to be the only acceptable way to accomplish their goals. Many of these cheesy methods have been nerfed in one way or another, but nothing was really done to offer alternatives, and I frankly think that a number of players have probably quit the game because there we no more ways for them to train up a character to the point where it's exciting to play. Not everyone can play during peak hours, and not everyone wants to play in the Byn over and over again.