Author Topic: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?  (Read 2167 times)

Pariah

  • Posts: 322
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2021, 07:30:42 PM »
In my opinion it’s odd that throw knocks down targets if others don’t.

Pretty sure your arrow or sling is coming faster than my hand thrown knife.

Inks

  • Posts: 1548
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2021, 07:59:20 PM »
Well, a crossbow would have more punching power than a javelin just by the way it works.

I wasn't sure where you guys were going with comparing them to bullets though.


More damage works. Not sure why you guys are starting to go off on a realism tangent when a weapon made of black glass can parry a HG hammer.

Every weapon would be far more deadly if we were playing an entirely realistic game. But no, combat is fast and deadly enough. Nobody wants brain hemorraging or internal bleeding modelled in game. For obvious reasons.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2021, 08:06:30 PM by Inks »
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The7DeadlyVenomz

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Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2021, 08:02:59 PM »
Inks, this is the way shit goes. It's always gonna veer hither and thither!

Enjoy it!
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hyzhenhok

  • Posts: 1698
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2021, 09:52:51 PM »
The advantage of crossbows IRL is they require very little training, and also they can be quickly aimed and shot from cover with minimal exposure.

I would just buff them by removing or greatly reducing the aim/shoot lag.

To represent ease of use, you could literally make crossbow use skill up much faster than other ranged skills. I don't know the numbers but my feel is currently archery/crossbow/sling all take about an equal number of fails to master. Make crossbow use twice as easy to skill up (move branching points higher as necessary).

I would not buff their damage. X-D is 100% right about the limitations on crossbow power. But it's even worse, because IRL late medieval crossbows have the benefit of using metal limbs to pack a lot of tension in a small draw area. If you're using wood or horn or chitin, the same material that can be used for bows, you're not going to exceed the power a longbow can generate. So crossbows should not be more powerful than longbows as a rule; honestly they should not match longbows unless you have one made out of special material.

I would not give them knockdown. Throw gets knockdown because the mass of the projectile is so high, and the trade-off is range.

lostinspace

  • Posts: 793
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2021, 11:11:26 PM »
If you're using wood or horn or chitin, the same material that can be used for bows, you're not going to exceed the power a longbow can generate. So crossbows should not be more powerful than longbows as a rule;

This is true, however it is likely IRL that you can draw a crossbow with a higher draw strength than a longbow. This is because you can reload a crossbow with a belt hook or by bracing it on the ground with your feet and drawing with your leg muscles instead of your arms.

So I think the trade off should be you can use a much stronger draw strength crossbow than you can a bow. If you can draw a +2 strength bow, you should be able to draw a +4 strength crossbow. The trade-off being longer reload times and a heavier weapon.
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mansa

  • Posts: 10299
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2021, 12:02:13 AM »
Don't bows have a max range of 2 rooms, and crossbows have a max range of 1 room, similar to throw?
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Pariah

  • Posts: 322
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2021, 12:10:11 AM »
I was literally going to buy a crossbow in game just to test them.  But I can’t find one.

Are they special only clan sold weapons?

Fernandezj

  • Posts: 208
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2021, 12:22:50 AM »
They are readily available at 2 shops in Allanak, 3 in Luirs and 1 in Morins.

Inks

  • Posts: 1548
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2021, 06:59:39 AM »
Don't bows have a max range of 2 rooms, and crossbows have a max range of 1 room, similar to throw?

No. Only small crossbows are 1 room. Xbow optimum range is 1 room, and longbow optimum range is 2.
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Lotion

  • Posts: 461
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2021, 07:58:11 AM »
Maybe <load blowgun strap> gets and loads the first dart in the dart-strap into the blowgun, with appropriate delay.
The ability to specify which dart you want to use would be absolutely necessary, especially when keen.dart, baobab.dart, and agafari.dart are all different poisons.
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Delirium

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  • Posts: 12204
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2021, 01:53:43 PM »
Maybe <load blowgun strap> gets and loads the first dart in the dart-strap into the blowgun, with appropriate delay.
The ability to specify which dart you want to use would be absolutely necessary, especially when keen.dart, baobab.dart, and agafari.dart are all different poisons.

Yep, this is already possible with the "pull" command, I see no reason why the functionality wouldn't be the same for load.
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Brokkr

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  • Posts: 1231
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2021, 07:00:20 PM »
I'm trying to figure out what you all are talking about.

Quote
l in wallet
In a dart wallet (used) :
a sharp, well-polished baobab blowdart
a sleek, baobab blowdart
a couple of simple, sharp tipped blowdarts

early morning >
pull wallet sleek
You reach into a dart wallet and slide out a sleek, baobab blowdart.
You load a scorched, decorated mekillot bone blowgun with a sleek, baobab blowdart.

It has been that way for a decent amount of time now, like since just after archery was split into archery, crossbow use, blowgun use, etc.  The only thing I see "missing" is having sleight of hand impact how stealthy with this you are, but that may be intentional.

Delirium

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  • Posts: 12204
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2021, 07:05:55 PM »
Well holy heck. I'm not sure why I thought that didn't work, but that's great to know.
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." - Schmendrick

Lotion

  • Posts: 461
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2021, 07:24:52 PM »
that's missing from the pull helpfile
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slipshod

  • Posts: 1008
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2021, 10:09:21 PM »
In Tranquil's original post, I picked up on the idea that crossbows could knock people down, but I also liked the idea that bolts could have a 'puncture' ability akin to the chopping 'hack', where a piece of armor could be damaged.

While we're on the topic, it's been a while since I tried, but can bolts be 'pulled' from a quiver?  In the past I had an alias to 'get bolt quiver'.  Maybe we need (or already have) special bolt quivers introduced.
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Riev

  • Posts: 5885
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2021, 08:59:55 AM »
While we're on the topic, it's been a while since I tried, but can bolts be 'pulled' from a quiver?  In the past I had an alias to 'get bolt quiver'.  Maybe we need (or already have) special bolt quivers introduced.

Fun code hack:

pull quiver <keyword>

So if you want the bolt, pull quiver bolt
If you want the arrow, pull quiver arrow
if you want the skinning knife, pull quiver skinning
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LindseyBalboa

  • Posts: 367
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2021, 11:59:43 AM »
Doesn't really make it easier to pull a bolt from a quiver, as the crossbow has to be in your inventory to reload.  Just "get arrow quiver" is the quickest way to reload. It's not like a dart that will be loaded into a blowgun, or an arrow into a bow.
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Riev

  • Posts: 5885
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2021, 12:10:50 PM »
Crossbows do superior damage when shot from "in the same room", or at least so the staffer that finally implemented it told me.

Unfortunately, it causes instant combat with post-shot lag, and you cannot be armed when you fire. It also does not do enough damage to do anything but instantiate combat mode, and you're at the immediate disadvantage.

Maybe if it came with <certain code attached to a new-ish spell) that makes it painful or difficult to move after being shot with a crossbow bolt? You can still get away, you aren't instant dead, but you have an inch-thick rod of wood or bone sticking out of your leg.
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betweenford

  • Posts: 180
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2021, 04:37:39 PM »
What if I could just beat someone to death with my heavy crossbow used as a shitty bludgeon.

Jihelu

  • Posts: 3073
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2021, 04:44:14 PM »
It would be infinitely better, as at least you'd be 'armed' then and not get demolished. Enough time to survive and draw a weapon or get a lucky neck shot.

Narf

  • Posts: 1126
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2021, 04:50:38 PM »
If the code allows it there's nothing stopping people from CCing something like that.

Though I think the better alternative would be for staff to change it so any held item made out of certain materials (stone, bone, wood) could be used as an improvised club.

Riev

  • Posts: 5885
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2021, 04:53:36 PM »
What if I could just beat someone to death with my heavy crossbow used as a shitty bludgeon.

Make its damage roll 1d2 -1 for all I care. I just want to avoid the penalty for being "unarmed" for the first 2-3 rounds before I can draw a weapon.
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Pariah

  • Posts: 322
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2021, 04:55:57 PM »
Does nosave combat stop you from getting in instant combat?

If so can do that then stow and draw a real weapon before getting beat to shit.

Or is it that the other player instantly auto attacks after getting shot?

The7DeadlyVenomz

  • Posts: 9465
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2021, 04:57:50 PM »
I certainly think that most stone, wood, and bone things you ep or es should at least be a improvised weapon, yeah. I think that's a fine idea.

And it's the other player that'll attack you in self defense, yes, unless they also have nosave combat on.
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Jihelu

  • Posts: 3073
Re: Crossbows: Are they weak, and if so, how to fix them?
« Reply #49 on: August 03, 2021, 05:16:48 PM »
Does nosave combat stop you from getting in instant combat?

If so can do that then stow and draw a real weapon before getting beat to shit.

Or is it that the other player instantly auto attacks after getting shot?

I'm almost certain it makes the other person attack you unless they have nosave combat, and even then you have a huge ass delay so if they don't attack you you're stuck there hanging out with them.