Author Topic: Allanaki Laws  (Read 3075 times)

triste

  • Posts: 974
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #75 on: May 18, 2021, 12:47:07 PM »


Stop fighting eachother and VOTE http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-sanvean.html

Edit: huzzah, the nastiness was scrubbed, but still vote!
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 02:03:33 PM by triste »
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WarriorPoet

  • Posts: 4768
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #76 on: May 18, 2021, 01:15:09 PM »
Well. This took an abrupt turn.

Go vote. I did.
We were somewhere near the Shield Wall, on the edge of the Red Desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

Halcyon

  • Posts: 333
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #77 on: May 18, 2021, 01:23:06 PM »
Help file time!
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Crime%20and%20Justice
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Criminal
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Arm%20of%20the%20Dragon
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Templars



I do understand this.  However, from an rp perspective, I think a lack of safety dealing with templars means its better to avoid them and be unknown to them.  Do you agree this is true, and bad for rp in allanak?
Thanks Hestia.

Question: when a House which hires gemmed refuses to have their gemmed to do stuff per the request of the Templar, which doesn't go against the House... what are the repercussions? What can a Templar do?

Or when a Templar tells a gemmed not to join a House, or order them to refuse to do a certain task for the House. What can the House do?

I've seen these examples a few years ago IG and I always wondered what exactly can be done in such situations.

Been a few responses.  I will just add that sometimes when things are unclear, they are meant to be unclear.  I understand that folks may want to have an answer, so that their character is "safe" if they follow the answer. However, there may be no intention to create a path to safety.
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I'm not sick but I'm not well
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Riev

  • Posts: 5826
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #78 on: May 18, 2021, 03:54:27 PM »
I've noticed that people make a lot of assumptions. Many of the things that people are complaining about is covered in clan documentation. Just because you don't understand it, or are not aware of it, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

You aren't entitled to know everything. That was always one of the coolest things about Arm - mystery. It has become a trend over the last several years to believe that you should know everything and that you DO know everything. It is amazing how some of the most vocal people on the boards are often the most incorrect.

Someone also commented about bringing out an Agent to deal with a troublesome templar. I might urge you to read up a little more on the social hierarchy in Allanak.

Don't assume "You don't understand it" or that people feel "entitled to know everything".

Stop taking everything people talk about personally. It may not be you they're complaining about, and if it is, let staff deal with it. Stop attacking the playerbase.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 02:27:27 AM by The7DeadlyVenomz »
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Delirium

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Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #79 on: May 18, 2021, 06:14:40 PM »
Salt, Riev, salt. Let's not go baiting people or or hinting at who they may/may not play, please, that's rude.

I think this is more or less turning into the "Allanak Problem" thread. The problem is that right now, codedly, you're punished for showing up in public more than you're rewarded for it. There is no real counterbalance to coded Templar power. There's societal pressures and the virtual gameworld, but those require buy-in from players and support from staff. Either there needs to be a PLAYER antagonist of equal power to the southern templarate that is LEGAL for people to be involved with (AKA Tuluk of old) who is well supported and given all the tools they need to compete, or...

I dunno honestly if there's any other solution.

The other problem is of perception. A lot of times if you play by the rules and do what Ye Olde Templar wants you to do, you'll be just fine, maybe even rewarded and vaulted to a position of power and brought in on some cool plots. It just requires the right PC, the right mindset, and a willingness to take risks and possibly lose your character. Take those risks, go on that crazy adventure. You die telling a great story or you survive with a great story.

I feel like there's been a gradual shift in the playerbase to cling to their characters rather than play the story.

Heck, sometimes that means NOT taking the risk, but as long as you're being true to your PC, stop worrying so much about winning.

Another problem is the lack of ability to compete against abusive play by criminal classes. I feel like hearts were in the right place when designing the classes, but either they need some tweaking to depower sneak/hide/theft or, more ideally, hiding needs to be less binary, and/or give people with scan a way to reveal the hidden person (with a pre-echo so said hidden person can GTFO of dodge). In counterbalance, getting a 'look' off at a hidden person should show less information, maybe just the EQ list rather than their main description, so they're not immediately broadcast to the entire game.

My 2¢.
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." - Schmendrick

LindseyBalboa

  • Posts: 299
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #80 on: May 18, 2021, 07:41:44 PM »
There's a really easy counter balance to powerful templars: having several active templar.

If one has a lot of power, the rest need to look elsewhere for it. Go make friends with them.

They're in competition. It's really well known.
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triste

  • Posts: 974
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #81 on: May 18, 2021, 08:06:09 PM »
There's a really easy counter balance to powerful templars: having several active templar.

If one has a lot of power, the rest need to look elsewhere for it. Go make friends with them.

They're in competition. It's really well known.

Full agree.

Every time I've met a Templar who would do lovely things like PK my PCs three times in a row [and admittedly I deserved it every time because I am a sketchy b!tch who roleplays sketchy b!tches], I would just seek out a Templar who was more down with the "Corruption" part of the game's tagline, and problem solved!

If you think some Templars are ass, be the change in game. I know they can seem untouchable but you can do shit like kill their aides to get to them, just LMK if y'all need a playbook.

Templars are powerful and can do whatever they want per the setting, but I agree it is this element of competition that makes it fun rather than hopeless. I hope staff also keep this in mind.
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You can choose to be strong or you can choose to be weak.

The7DeadlyVenomz

  • Posts: 9259
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #82 on: May 19, 2021, 10:32:07 AM »
I'll also say that sometimes things happen for IC reasons, and if you go into a discussion about issues with an open OOC mind, it'll make sense. Your milage may vary, of course, but I've been playing a really long time, and very rarely have I felt that my adversaries didn't have an IC reason for things, or, that they couldn't be reasoned with.

Take a shot at talking stuff out sometimes, because that's just as much roleplay as dodging and ducking laws is.

Nothing wrong with scraping some knees to get some shit done.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2021, 10:33:53 AM by The7DeadlyVenomz »
Wynning since October 25, 2008.

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You accidentally snap newbie into useless pieces.


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Is Friday

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Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #83 on: May 19, 2021, 12:57:32 PM »
Nothing wrong with scraping some knees to get some shit done.
I'm not sure which form of consent this is asking for... but yes to both.
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.

The7DeadlyVenomz

  • Posts: 9259
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #84 on: May 19, 2021, 04:27:50 PM »
Haha. Well, I mean, sure, it could be knees down, mouth open, but I was referring to knees down, begging. But, I mean ... whatever it takes.

Point is, some characters are going to need to grovel and bend knee to get what they want done. And that's okay.
Wynning since October 25, 2008.

>craft newbie into good player

You accidentally snap newbie into useless pieces.


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Maso

  • Posts: 4048
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #85 on: May 20, 2021, 05:33:05 AM »
The problem is that right now, codedly, you're punished for showing up in public more than you're rewarded for it.

If I go out in public and get the attention of a Templar... who busts my balls over.. whatever shit. I'm wearing orange and they don't like orange. To me, the player, that's totally a reward for going out in public. That's some hilarious interaction that is going to have a lasting effect on my character and help evolve their story forward.

I feel like there's been a gradual shift in the playerbase to cling to their characters rather than play the story.

The problem right now ^
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Barsook

  • Posts: 8617
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #86 on: May 20, 2021, 05:37:08 AM »
I feel like there's been a gradual shift in the playerbase to cling to their characters rather than play the story.

The problem right now ^


For sure. I wonder if it's from the slow start of this current world plot that started in 2016(?).

Aruven

  • Posts: 2601
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #87 on: May 20, 2021, 09:25:41 AM »

I feel like there's been a gradual shift in the playerbase to cling to their characters rather than play the story.

The problem right now ^


Riev

  • Posts: 5826
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #88 on: May 20, 2021, 12:21:31 PM »
Suggestion:
That may be because the support of staff has been known to come as you have "established" yourself in the game and proven you can "survive", rather than "You have a great idea? Its okay you're 2d played, lets see how it works out".

Why play the story, when your personal character's story requires time invested first?
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Veselka

  • Posts: 1230
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #89 on: May 20, 2021, 10:51:46 PM »
Riev, I think that used to be more true than it is now.
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

Riev

  • Posts: 5826
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #90 on: May 21, 2021, 08:31:33 AM »
Riev, I think that used to be more true than it is now.

I sincerely hope that is true, but its been mentioned by the Producers of the game in several posts here and in Discord that 'knowing how to stay alive' is important, and that volunteer staff only have so much time and sometimes they may not want to invest that time into a short-term character.

People play risk averse, because playing risky means your story ends sooner. If my goal is to own the music shop on the back end of Red's Retreat, how can I do that if I play risky and put my character into situations that could kill them? No. Better to play 2 hours a week, and wait.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

LindseyBalboa

  • Posts: 299
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #91 on: May 22, 2021, 11:54:25 AM »
Hoping/assuming that's hyperbole because suggesting people only play 2 hours a week but would play more later on (once they're established?) sounds incredibly paranoid. If people are playing 2 hours a week that's probably all they can afford to play, or want to. If someone plays 30 hours a week, they're going to play 30 hours a week.

I've seen staff intervene and help new characters; I have seen game changing and permanent effects happen with new characters (less than 10 days played, certainly) involved. I think it's really just up to the player to start the plot then keep it going - which does require living if it's a long term goal, yeah, but it's not like staff won't help a player kick it off.

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BOXCARS

  • Posts: 100
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #92 on: May 23, 2021, 12:22:53 PM »
I mean Riev has a point. The more often you play the more things happen, and the more things happen the more likely you are to die.

Every character I have seen with a big plan to build who had large playtimes failed terribly, and the one person who I ever saw succeed put in about two hours a week more or less.

Part of it is patience and self control, part of it is familiarity with the system and its contents, and honestly just pace yourself.

Players who burn the candle at both ends and put in big hours tend to be rewarded with frequent failure rather than more success. Not out of an agenda but just out of purely practical concerns. Do more things, more things happen, often in this game they are bad things. Until we have roaming npcs who gift you with rare items when you cross them, they're more likely just going to stab/bite you randomly.

SpyGuy

  • Posts: 1448
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #93 on: May 24, 2021, 10:02:34 AM »
I'll just put in a note of polite disagreement here, I've seen a fair number of non-sponsored roles who had goals, played way more than 2 hours a week and eventually got some of those goals accomplished.  This includes things like getting far into the process of becoming a MMH, plotlines that the player worked with staff on based on the characters background and only finished after over a RL year or accomplishing big personal goals for that PC.

That being said this is Arm and PCs die all the time.  Especially in combat roles or roles that are antagonistic to the powers that be.  In my anecdotal experience combat PCs tend to want to push themselves more and more.  I certainly know I have that urge...'Can I solo a raptor yet?' pretty quickly becomes 'I wonder if I can solo that gith/rantarri/thing not listed in the helpfiles?'.  That eventually leads to death in most cases.  Also when I have the time to play a lot that usually means I'll have times I get bored and go do things with some amount of risk.

I don't feel it's unreasonable for staff to want to see a PC survive for a decent period of time (maybe 2 IC years, I'm making this number up) before devoting a lot of staff time to helping to further their IC goals.  By that time the PC is likely connected with a wide range of players, has started doing some legwork on their goal IC without staff support, has built up a dialogue with the staffer over them on how to start going about getting the goal accomplished and has skilled up enough that they're more easily able to actually survive/make coin to hire PCs to help/hide really well and avoid death that way.

But there's also luck of the draw in this.  I imagine some people shoot out an idea and it really thrills a staffer or meshes well with a current plotline and things happen faster.  Or sometimes staff that would be in charge of handling that PCs requests gets busy IRL or even retires and so those personal plotlines get delayed even further.

Lotion

  • Posts: 276
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #94 on: May 25, 2021, 06:34:18 PM »
If you play for 30 hours a week you will probably die 15x faster than someone who plays 2 hours a week.
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Vox

  • Posts: 490
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #95 on: May 25, 2021, 07:20:43 PM »
Wait.. there’s laws?

Barsook

  • Posts: 8617
Re: Allanaki Laws
« Reply #96 on: May 25, 2021, 07:29:09 PM »
Aren't we beating the dead horse here? Let's just play the game and have fun with it. Take the various hooks that players and staff give and help you and other tell stories.

Not trying to be snarky here.