Author Topic: Idea: Expanded Stances  (Read 1842 times)

The7DeadlyVenomz

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Idea: Expanded Stances
« on: December 30, 2020, 06:58:28 AM »
Currently, as far as I can tell, we have only two stances. That's Riposte, and Balanced. I love the idea of stances, so, here's a few ideas regarding more stances.


Balanced: normal combative stance. No prerequisites.
Riposte:  attempt to turn a successful parry into an extra attack. Requires a slashing weapon.
Defend:   attempt to gain a defensive bonus upon a successful block or parry, at the cost of offense. Requires a shield.
Berserk:  attempt to gain an extra attack after making a successful attack, at the cost of defense. Requires a chopping weapon.
Flurry:   attempt to gain speed after making a successful attack. Requires a piercing weapon.
Knockout: attempts to do primarily head and body shots, with reduced damage. Requires a bludgeoning weapon.
Entrench: attempts to raise defense against being trampled or bashed. Requires a shield and piercing weapon.
Dodge:    attempts to raise dodge chance, at the cost of offensive prowess. No prerequisites.
Train:    lowers the strength you apply to your blows by half, and automatically invokes mercy. No prerequisites.

Wynning since October 25, 2008.

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SpyGuy

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Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2020, 07:14:22 AM »
Are you thinking these would be learnable skills like riposte?  Would it cost stamina or have another limiting factor to use?

The7DeadlyVenomz

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Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2020, 07:22:35 AM »
They would function like Riposte does, yes, costing stamina per attempt, or, stamina during use. For instance, I'd do stances like Training, or Dodge, like guarding - a blanket reduction in stamina (instead of stun). For stances that attempt extra attacks, they would require stamina, as Riposte currently does.

I'm assuming that as you get better at the skill, the reduction in how much stamina is used is reduced. If that's not the case, I'd definitely include that into the reimagination of the stance idea. Like guarding and scanning and so on and so forth, you should use less stamina to do things as you get better at doing them.
Wynning since October 25, 2008.

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SpyGuy

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Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2020, 08:21:50 AM »
I’d love to see something like this.  I’d add charge defense to entrench as well.  Maybe a small bonus to fighting mounted opponents if that’s even possible.

It’d be fun to have more variety in how you fight.  Just having that one beserker on your side would be great.

triste

  • Posts: 1304
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2020, 10:32:46 AM »
+1 if only for the proposed "Train" stance, it's always been silly and annoying to see stuff like Muls being prohibited from training with humans because they're too strong. I feel like anyone with enough braincells can hold back enough during training to not murder people, and still train effectively.

And as an obvious side note, Mul rage should nullify any selected stance [or switch your stance to berserk mode or the like], but anyone implementing this would have thought of that.
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CthulhuPakabol

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Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2020, 01:20:31 PM »
Personally I think this is an awesome idea, and if it were coupled with echoes produced from people assuming new stances, this could make combat a much more tense and strategic affair than simply typing “kill x” and then throwing in whatever special attacks you have access to/are decently skilled at. Any further differentiation between weapons in fighting styles would certainly be a welcome change to me!

mansa

  • Posts: 10303
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2020, 04:45:44 PM »
I think the next step is a "defensive" stance.

>defensive
You are no longer attacking back at an opponent



This should be easier as it is already implemented with the 'nosave combat' syntax.  It would be a great addition to the game that in addition to the nosave syntax, you could simply type 'defensive' and it would duplicate the syntax of nosave combat.  Yes, you can make an alias that does the same, but why should complicated syntax be default?
What would be even more fantastic is if it was populated with the %c option in your prompt when you turn it on.
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The7DeadlyVenomz

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Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2020, 05:22:14 PM »
As it so happens, it was actually nosave combat that led to me thinking about stances. I don't know why I didn't include it ... I'll amend the initial post when I get home.
Wynning since October 25, 2008.

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Barsook

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Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2020, 06:41:00 PM »
I think these stances are awesome and they could have their own skill group along with riposte. The "no No prerequisites" ones could be base skills and the rest branch from those.

Fernandezj

  • Posts: 208
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2020, 06:53:24 PM »
I really like the idea since so many people play for the combat.
I don't like the requirement of weapon types - at least if thats ALL were doing with stances.

I would rather see generic, weaponless stances, and maybe nuance:

Code: [Select]
Offensive Stances:
Berserk //Severe penalties to defense, major offensive bonuses
+++ Offense
--- Defense
Require a specific weapon type (maybe chop, bludgeon)

Aggressive //Drop some defense for offense
++ Offense
-- Defense

Neutral Stances
Standard //Normal, just your skills and inherent off/def
   No modifications

Defensive Stances
Protective //This would be like the sparring stance
++ Defense
-- Offense

Shieldwall //You barely attack
+++ Defense
--- Offense
Require a shield

Then maybe some sort of regional specific to align fighting styles.
Code: [Select]
"Scorpion Stance" //Or something equally southern
+ Offense when dual wielding
+ Defense when dual wielding

"Gurth Stance" //Or something equally northern
+ Defense with a shield
+ Offense with a shield

This also opens the door for clan specific stances, which would add some benefit to receiving "years of training in the Byn", or a militia education, elf-tribal tactics, or Kuraci desert ops. I dont know enough about the backgrounds of all these groups to suggest what they'd do.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 07:31:08 PM by Fernandezj »

Barsook

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Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2020, 07:10:23 PM »
That I like also.

Kyviantre

  • Posts: 682
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2020, 07:31:20 PM »
Train:    lowers the strength you apply to your blows by half, and automatically invokes mercy. No prerequisites.

Gimme please!
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Halcyon

  • Posts: 383
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2020, 11:35:40 PM »
Train:    lowers the strength you apply to your blows by half, and automatically invokes mercy. No prerequisites.

Gimme please!

Please, please no.

One of the only advantages of playing a high str character is the disadvantage in getting perfect training.

Please dont remove this weakness.   Right now there is an necessity and value in playing the one wis/agi fighter in a training group.  (again) Please dont add options that reduce the list of interesting characters to be played.
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Kyviantre

  • Posts: 682
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2020, 03:01:21 AM »
Perhaps I should have been more specific.  I don't care about mercy.  But your big brute of a warrior, should be able to safely spar with the wet-behind-the-ears rookie without pummeling them into the dust.  Sure, you're going to dodge their hits, but there is a thing in LARP called 'pulling your blows', where you don't thwack the monsters with full force, but go for 'touches' (because they are humans in goblin costumes, and bruise!).

Being able for the uber-warrior to be skilled enough to know how hard to hit someone...and to not go full-out on someone they know is just learning, would be wonderful for RP.

Limit skill gains (if you're 'training', don't get gains, if you're being trained, 75%?), but it allows you to emote, and RP around going "Tighten up that footwork rookie", and so on, rather than it be 5 rounds and done.
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SpyGuy

  • Posts: 1499
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2020, 03:16:53 AM »
I agree that train would shore up just about the only weakness high strength has, that their training fights end too quickly. But it just makes sense. 

Right now there are ways to train more safely.  Nosave combat, using different styles like not twohanded, etc. but if there’s much of a power difference a high strength character will just destroy a rookie.  Not nearly as big of a problem for characters with lower strength.

rinthrat

  • Posts: 273
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2020, 06:02:41 AM »
I agree that train would shore up just about the only weakness high strength has, that their training fights end too quickly. But it just makes sense. 

Right now there are ways to train more safely.  Nosave combat, using different styles like not twohanded, etc. but if there’s much of a power difference a high strength character will just destroy a rookie.  Not nearly as big of a problem for characters with lower strength.

I actually like that it has this downside. It slows down skill progression for high-strength characters and provides a tiny bit of balance.

Jihelu

  • Posts: 3088
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2021, 05:06:57 PM »
It's silly to me there is absolutely no way of holding back  in fights that isn't outright never attacking them.

whatislove

  • Posts: 53
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2021, 04:17:05 PM »
I'm down for these, since it may make combat much more intuitive , and much less 'im a 60 day enforcer, get rekt by my master bash'.

Hopefully would give a good new breath to the combative side of the world, even if the bonuses are small, it could help with feeling a bit more in control of combat.

Veselka

  • Posts: 1447
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2021, 05:06:21 PM »
Honestly, if the bonuses / minuses weren't that extreme, but it changed some of the flavor of combat, provided more 'moves', it would be pretty fun.

Combat as it is (particularly between experienced combatants) is a numbers game, rather than a skill game. It'd be cool if fighters could develop separate styles they could train and match against each other.

So, a master 'duelist', one who fights with one weapon and no shield, gains a bonus to parry and riposte, with a minus to offense and damage.

A master two-weapon fighter gains speed in attacking (regardless of agility), a small bonus to offense, and a minus to defense and parry.

A master two-handed fighter gains a bonus to damage and parry, but a reduction to offense and defense.

Etc etc. It'd just be nice if the +/- of using different weapons OUTWEIGHED the bonus of using a bludgeoning weapon, because stun damage.

As pointed out above, having more nuance in combat (Which does appear to be a large part of this game) would be a welcome addition!


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X-D

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Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2021, 06:38:58 PM »
I find it funny that you say two weapons -parry when IRL and in game two weapons is to get a parry bonus.

While a two handed weapon is to get offense, damage and parry bonus as well classically.

Though, I am not against the idea itself. Preferred over OP in fact.
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Veselka

  • Posts: 1447
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2021, 08:11:33 PM »
I find it funny that you say two weapons -parry when IRL and in game two weapons is to get a parry bonus.

While a two handed weapon is to get offense, damage and parry bonus as well classically.

Though, I am not against the idea itself. Preferred over OP in fact.

Sure, I was just trying to think of a minus that made sense to two weapon fighting. Increased speed and increased parry seems a bit OP. Maybe less damage.

I think it'd be cool if stances were in fact skills, and you could pop them from using the weapon in that style enough, or if it was taught to you. That way you can't just interchange them at will (unless you're a baller fighter and learned them all).


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Veselka

  • Posts: 1447
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2021, 08:19:24 PM »
Also, while we're on the idea of different stances, it'd be cool if there was a 'shield wall' skill or something for multiple shield wielders to use, if they are following you.

>shieldwall target

You form a shield wall with <target>.

+++ Defense from ranged weapons
++ Defense added to the leader
+ Defense added to others in shield wall
+ Defense against Bash

--- Minus Offense/Damage against Melee Attackers
--- Minus Parry against Melee Attackers / Ranged Weapons
-- Long Delay
- Large Damage/Hack/Bash can break a shield wall
- One person leaving the room/moving breaks the shield wall for all in the chain.
- Cannot do shield wall while mounted or hitched to a mount.

The higher the leader's skill, the less time it takes to form it, and better chance of it not breaking.



Maybe another skill, too: Formation

Leader issues the formation to followers. >Formation me person.1 person.2 person.3

>You settle into formation.

Formation creates a guarding order from top to bottom (1st to Last) Higher chance of attacks going to the first person in formation. Attacks directed at followers automatically incur rescue attempts from the people above them in formation. High damage/Bash breaks formation.

Plus, it'd be even cooler if they're all in the same clan, it forms a 'unit'.

Just some #showerthoughts


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The7DeadlyVenomz

  • Posts: 9465
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2021, 08:56:21 PM »
I like the idea of weapon-specific stances, like Riposte for swords, or Berserk for axes, being branched off of weapon skills. I like that a lot.

I do think there should be some basic stances that everyone has access to, though, like normal, defensive, offensive, and training.

But creating a cool tree for most stances, branching off of weapon skills or other combat skills, sounds neat.
Wynning since October 25, 2008.

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Veselka

  • Posts: 1447
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2021, 08:58:55 PM »
I like the idea of weapon-specific stances, like Riposte for swords, or Berserk for axes, being branched off of weapon skills. I like that a lot.

I do think there should be some basic stances that everyone has access to, though, like normal, defensive, offensive, and training.

But creating a cool tree for most stances, branching off of weapon skills or other combat skills, sounds neat.

Tying 'Teach' into it would be cool as well (IMHO). It's always been an underutilized part of the code that is marginally cool at best.

Part of what makes a mentor appealing is, well, they know more than you! And you can benefit from their tutelage!

Like the funny thing to me is we don't have Reading and Writing, and as Brokkr pointed out previously, it makes becoming a 'genius' at crafting pretty difficult, in his opinion.

Yet! We have self-made genius sword swingers the world over, because they teach themselves simply through trial and error.

The missing link here (IMHO) is teachers. Salarr has the world's greatest teachers. The T'zai Byn has some pretty good teachers. House Tor has some pretty stellar teachers.

Something to chew on.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 09:01:25 PM by Veselka »


Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

The7DeadlyVenomz

  • Posts: 9465
Re: Idea: Expanded Stances
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2021, 10:29:06 PM »
Oh shit. If Tor could ... oh shit. That's why you visit the Academy and pay to become a student!
Wynning since October 25, 2008.

>craft newbie into good player

You accidentally snap newbie into useless pieces.


Discord:The7DeadlyVenomz#3870