Author Topic: Old Player feels like a New Player  (Read 1142 times)

Dakota

  • Posts: 1291
Old Player feels like a New Player
« on: December 26, 2020, 06:29:20 PM »
Hello! You may or may not remember me. Maybe you remember some of my PCs (Lusts for Blood the SLK, Drazen the c elf Fence and a couple other 30+ day played PCs)...

I see a heap has changed. Some of it looks pretty good.

My question is: if I just want to play a Ranger (so I can quit outdoors), climb, hunt, and just explore like I used to... what class / subclass can I pick?

I ask here b/c it seems to be a bit complicated vs before. Haven't played since the class shuffle (but I did play during the past subclass shuffle which was neat).

Anyway, looking forward to the answer. Cheers!
Czar of City Elves.

cnemus

  • Posts: 240
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2020, 06:49:08 PM »
This player made resource helps to compare or find classes based on skills:

https://tristearmageddon.github.io/arma-guild-picker/?guild=artisan&subguild=crafter

You're most likely looking at Scout or Stalker as your primary.
Quote from: Shalooonsh
Armageddon isn't about closure.  It's about Murder, Corruption, and Betrayal.  It's about Mystery, it's about Passion, it's about Brutality.

mansa

  • Posts: 10201
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2020, 07:59:33 PM »
I'd reiterate that you'd probably like Stalker or Scout.

What's nice is they have published the skillsets and branching path for both those classes:

http://armageddon.org/help/view/Stalker
http://armageddon.org/help/view/Stalker%20Branching

http://armageddon.org/help/view/Scout
http://armageddon.org/help/view/Scout%20Branching

FYI, When it says "Advanced", it may be high advanced cap and it may be low advanced cap.  Same with all other skill proficiencies labels.

See this for more details:
https://i.imgur.com/8WhGI2V.jpg

New Players Guide: http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,33512.0.html


You win Armageddon, congratulations!  Type 'credits', then store your character and make a new one

triste

  • Posts: 1048
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2020, 08:28:04 PM »
This player made resource helps to compare or find classes based on skills:

https://tristearmageddon.github.io/arma-guild-picker/?guild=artisan&subguild=crafter

You're most likely looking at Scout or Stalker as your primary.

Yes thanks for linking this sneemz! I made this because I was an old player returning who was similarly confused. Please let me know if anything is buggy about the guild picker!

And WELCOME BACK Dakota!! I am a HUGE fan of your roleplay and often rant about Lusts for Blood, such an incredible character and inspiration to me.
ARMAGEDDON SKILL PICKER THING: https://tristearmageddon.github.io/arma-guild-picker/
message me if something there needs an update.

Dar

  • Posts: 1682
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2020, 03:43:26 AM »
Hello! You may or may not remember me. Maybe you remember some of my PCs (Lusts for Blood the SLK, Drazen the c elf Fence and a couple other 30+ day played PCs)...

I see a heap has changed. Some of it looks pretty good.

My question is: if I just want to play a Ranger (so I can quit outdoors), climb, hunt, and just explore like I used to... what class / subclass can I pick?

I ask here b/c it seems to be a bit complicated vs before. Haven't played since the class shuffle (but I did play during the past subclass shuffle which was neat).

Anyway, looking forward to the answer. Cheers!


You still owe me two small.

SpyGuy

  • Posts: 1492
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2020, 07:25:26 AM »
Hey there, was in the same boat a few months ago.  I’ve really enjoyed being back, game is in a good place. Also a big ranger player so my 2 cents:

Heavy combat + a sub with wilderness skills/quit:  you’ll likely feel a little at a loss for utility skills but you’ll be really solid in combat

Scout + whatever:  Scout has a good overall balance of utility skills and fighting prowess.  You’ll miss having brew and master in a few skills but you’ll also feel more durable than a starting ranger of old.  I feel scout is a great class if you want to lean into your sub guild

Stalker + whatever:  you already have a billion utility skills.  Getting great at combat may take awhile but it does regardless

X-D

  • Posts: 5816
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2020, 09:49:47 AM »
SpyGuy has it right....well, mostly. Scout and Stalker are FEEBLE. You will not feel like you are playing a ranger with either of them...other then having wilderness quit. If you have to have skinning AND wilderness quit, well, kinda stuck in lameness of those two. And if so Scout with a utility sub is way better then stalker with any sub.

Taking a heavy combat with a wilderness sub is the way to go if you can give up wilderness quit or skinning...I don't think any sub offers both.
A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
Lizzie:
If you -want- me to think that your character is a hybrid of a black kryl and a white push-broom shaped like a penis, then you've done a great job

Dakota

  • Posts: 1291
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2020, 11:00:13 AM »
And WELCOME BACK Dakota!! I am a HUGE fan of your roleplay and often rant about Lusts for Blood, such an incredible character and inspiration to me.

Not back yet ;) Just sniffin' about.


You still owe me two small.

It's in my boots.

Scout and Stalker are FEEBLE. You will not feel like you are playing a ranger with either of them...

Yeah this is seems kinda spot on. I'm off peak so need stuff to do (exploring / skinning / crafting / being able to quit on a whim)... hrm...

Will roll something up tho and give it a go but I think I already miss straight up Ranger...
Czar of City Elves.

Fernandezj

  • Posts: 188
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2020, 12:52:24 PM »
what makes stalker and scout FEEBLE?

triste

  • Posts: 1048
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2020, 12:55:52 PM »
what makes stalker and scout FEEBLE?

Throwing in my two cents that I don't consider Scout feeble at all. My strongest character recently was a scout and it took eight of you fools (including a half giant) to PK her.
ARMAGEDDON SKILL PICKER THING: https://tristearmageddon.github.io/arma-guild-picker/
message me if something there needs an update.

Fernandezj

  • Posts: 188
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2020, 01:00:52 PM »
what makes stalker and scout FEEBLE?

Throwing in my two cents that I don't consider Scout feeble at all. My strongest character recently was a scout and it took eight of you fools (including a half giant) to PK her.

I just reread the posts, and I think the implication was starting?
I mean clearly they dont have things like kick/bash/disarm/riposte/hack/sap/backstab (but neither did old rangers), but they get to advanced in their weapons, style, and defenses (for stalker) with some dips into master for scout, which seems pretty good. Unless the gap between advanced and master is that debilitating.

Old rangers had no combat skills either, and no parry (according the helpfiles). I dont see how that was "better" than any of the current wilderness classes, even adventurer seems more in line with old ranger (with parry needing to branch).
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 01:03:16 PM by Fernandezj »

triste

  • Posts: 1048
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2020, 01:05:43 PM »
what makes stalker and scout FEEBLE?

Throwing in my two cents that I don't consider Scout feeble at all. My strongest character recently was a scout and it took eight of you fools (including a half giant) to PK her.

I just reread the posts, and I think the implication was starting?
I mean clearly they dont have things like kick/bash/disarm/riposte/hack/sap/backstab, but they get to advanced in their weapons, style, and defenses, which seems pretty good. Unless the gap between advanced and master is that debilitating.

The cap on parry hurts starting out, but after about 20 hours played your character tends to develop defense more through other attributes and it matters less. Once you get to that point, scouts are pretty scary. It's also important to have all / as many weapons skills as possible for both offense and defense which is also why scouts take care of themselves fine. There's a lot of great extended subguilds as well that can fill in those fun combat skills. Lastly, if you have a high cap to mounted riding, it can really manifest as a bonus in combat if you know what you're doing.

I feel like the difference between Master weapons skills and lower level weapons skills is something negligible, but I guess I am a "semi-casual" player and I have never, ever gotten a weapons skill capped at master. I think you have to rack up 80 hours played and train all the time to master a weapon's skill, so that won't matter at all to most players.
ARMAGEDDON SKILL PICKER THING: https://tristearmageddon.github.io/arma-guild-picker/
message me if something there needs an update.

Fernandezj

  • Posts: 188
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2020, 01:08:44 PM »
Yeah, I feel like people give out some advice thinking only of their end-game min-maxed characters, stalker feels fine to me (never tried scout) and the plethora of utility seems crazy.

X-D

  • Posts: 5816
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2020, 01:24:38 PM »
I love that people feel the need to defend things like this.

Anyway, If you look at stalker in the lens of, I can run and hide pretty good and can almost hold my own in PVE after 20 days played. I do make a good support PC in a clan long as you never expect PVP alone verses anything but other 5 day stalkers. Yeah, they are really good there.

Scout: I em really the closest to a ranger, minus some support skills...Oh, and my stealth/climb/scan/hunt Suck and are essentually worthless compared to ranger or stalker, My weapon skills are better then stalker, but ALL of them are worse then all the heavy combat AND legacy ranger. But if you take a sub to help fill in on the other things missing compared to ranger...I am alright, Might even get lucky and not do horrible in PVP...pretty solid in PVE.

Short of it is, If you really enjoy the stealth side of wilderness play, Stalker is for you, just don't expect to ever beat anybody with them.

If you absolutely have to have wilderness quit and OK skinning with very basic ability to survive alone with a good sub choice...Scout is Meh...servicable if not fancy.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 01:35:34 PM by X-D »
A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
Lizzie:
If you -want- me to think that your character is a hybrid of a black kryl and a white push-broom shaped like a penis, then you've done a great job

Iiyola

  • Posts: 4125
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2020, 01:43:38 PM »
OMG DAKOTA WELCOME BACK!!!

Play with meeeeeee!
Sometimes, severity is the price we pay for greatness

Decameron

  • Posts: 706
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2020, 01:44:21 PM »
Oh shit, welcome back Dakota!

I have nothing useful to add with the code-wise discussion. Just wanted to say it's awesome to see you back!  ;D

Hauwke

  • Posts: 2308
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2020, 04:14:23 PM »
I love that people feel the need to defend things like this.

Anyway, If you look at stalker in the lens of, I can run and hide pretty good and can almost hold my own in PVE after 20 days played. I do make a good support PC in a clan long as you never expect PVP alone verses anything but other 5 day stalkers. Yeah, they are really good there.

Scout: I em really the closest to a ranger, minus some support skills...Oh, and my stealth/climb/scan/hunt Suck and are essentually worthless compared to ranger or stalker, My weapon skills are better then stalker, but ALL of them are worse then all the heavy combat AND legacy ranger. But if you take a sub to help fill in on the other things missing compared to ranger...I am alright, Might even get lucky and not do horrible in PVP...pretty solid in PVE.

Short of it is, If you really enjoy the stealth side of wilderness play, Stalker is for you, just don't expect to ever beat anybody with them.

If you absolutely have to have wilderness quit and OK skinning with very basic ability to survive alone with a good sub choice...Scout is Meh...servicable if not fancy.

Scout might have lower weapons skills, but their off/def are exactly the same as old ranger or warrior.

Dakota

  • Posts: 1291
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2020, 04:15:14 PM »
Oh shit, welcome back Dakota!

I have nothing useful to add with the code-wise discussion. Just wanted to say it's awesome to see you back!  ;D
OMG DAKOTA WELCOME BACK!!!

Play with meeeeeee!

+1 to the both of ya!
Czar of City Elves.

X-D

  • Posts: 5816
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2020, 05:20:21 PM »
Also, Did I not say welcome back? My bag, I had interactions with Lusts for blood...Not gonna say how they went IC ;) but oocly solid.

A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
Lizzie:
If you -want- me to think that your character is a hybrid of a black kryl and a white push-broom shaped like a penis, then you've done a great job

rinthrat

  • Posts: 273
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2020, 06:49:09 PM »
I love that people feel the need to defend things like this.

Anyway, If you look at stalker in the lens of, I can run and hide pretty good and can almost hold my own in PVE after 20 days played. I do make a good support PC in a clan long as you never expect PVP alone verses anything but other 5 day stalkers. Yeah, they are really good there.

Scout: I em really the closest to a ranger, minus some support skills...Oh, and my stealth/climb/scan/hunt Suck and are essentually worthless compared to ranger or stalker, My weapon skills are better then stalker, but ALL of them are worse then all the heavy combat AND legacy ranger. But if you take a sub to help fill in on the other things missing compared to ranger...I am alright, Might even get lucky and not do horrible in PVP...pretty solid in PVE.

Short of it is, If you really enjoy the stealth side of wilderness play, Stalker is for you, just don't expect to ever beat anybody with them.

If you absolutely have to have wilderness quit and OK skinning with very basic ability to survive alone with a good sub choice...Scout is Meh...servicable if not fancy.

Scout might have lower weapons skills, but their off/def are exactly the same as old ranger or warrior.

Weapon skill caps on the light combat classes are the same as they were for warrior:
https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,54518.msg1027925.html#msg1027925

X-D

  • Posts: 5816
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2020, 10:18:10 PM »
And your point is what now? That would matter if legacy warrior was around, but since everybody else got raised as well, the ratio remains the same. Viable in PVE yes, barely, specially if the npcs are also the new classes or have the new skill levels. Anywho...I am out of this thread far as anything about Code. Glad a good player is back, rock on.
A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
Lizzie:
If you -want- me to think that your character is a hybrid of a black kryl and a white push-broom shaped like a penis, then you've done a great job

Dakota

  • Posts: 1291
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2020, 07:32:08 AM »
Also, Did I not say welcome back? My bag, I had interactions with Lusts for blood...Not gonna say how they went IC ;) but oocly solid.



::bows::
Czar of City Elves.

SmashedTregil

  • Posts: 200
Re: Old Player feels like a New Player
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2021, 04:24:29 AM »
Also, Did I not say welcome back? My bag, I had interactions with Lusts for blood...Not gonna say how they went IC ;) but oocly solid.



::bows::

I wouldn't worry too much about guilds. Most non mercantile guilds have higher starting skills. Very low percentage of rangers ever survived long enough to reach the skills that would place them above stalkers.  For 80% of the entire playerbase, Stalker is as good as old ranger, minus maybe lower archery.  I wouldn't put too much thought into 'end game' skill caps. And off/def caps are the same for all guilds, it's just the pace of improving them are different from guild to guild.

I'm looking forward to meeting your characters again, Dakota. And hopefully, mercilessly murdering them all.
Peering into the darkness, your voice uncertain, you say, in sirihish:
     "You be wary, you lot. It ain' I who's locked 'p here with yeh. it's the whol
e bunch of youse that's locked down here with meh."