Crime Code changes

[Supified]

I've been thinking we could probably use crim code changes.  Specifically that the guards go from zero to 120 in less than a second.  What I mean of course is that they go from subdue to murder.  There is no inbetween.  The problem is this is very hard to explain away ICLY.  The fact that pcs could never be given a pass acting similarly is a huge part of the problem.  When Role play has to bend over backward around code, well it would be nice if the code could be looked at.  For example.  Could all of the guards have mercy on so they're at least less likely to kill someone?  A small change like that might make a really big different.  Additionally that all crimes are treated the same from a law enforcer standpoint is problematic (though perhaps a little harder to fix).

I get that this is a harsh world and all that, but this goes beyond the harshness.  For example there are plenty of more metal ways to portray that which doesn't also kill role play.  For example, removel of limbs, scarring, branding. . etc.  All these neat tricks we lose the chance of doing in the event that the crim code simply splatters someone.

Anyway just a thought.

[Brokkr]

Could all of the guards have mercy on so they're at least less likely to kill someone?

Currently?  No.  It would make them hugely ineffective.  Because it is a toggle, just like for PCs.  So the soldiers wouldn't kill anyone (usually).

When the soldiers of the place you live in don't really care if you live or die...perhaps you had best be careful.

[Narf]

There are NPCs in the game right now that sometimes don't finish you off after knocking you down and they can be hilariously ineffective since they'll usually wander off before you wake up again. I imagine if you wanted guards to remain a threat it would take more code changes than just toggling mercy.

[kahuna]

Can we talk about the inordinate amount of guards in some places? A certain place currently has like 10-15 guards in one room? Were these put in as area resets specifically for an IC reason or OOC? Are these setup to be death traps for anyone who gets crim coded?

[mansa]

Can we talk about the inordinate amount of guards in some places? A certain place currently has like 10-15 guards in one room? Were these put in as area resets specifically for an IC reason or OOC? Are these setup to be death traps for anyone who gets crim coded?

I would 'bug' that room if there was 15 npcs there.

[Supified]

Well okay, it's a big under taking and mercy on isn't enough.  I do hope it can at least be added to some to do list to see if there isnt' something we can go about guards and crime code.

[LindseyBalboa]

My easy fix suggestion is a no delay, instant command: surrender.

It surrenders you to the 10 NPCs jumping you because you had no save combat on the wrong toggle, or whatever the reason is. Useable in any fight to automatically subdue yourself to an NPC/PC.

Even if it just works on guard NPCs attacking because of crim code, that little change, to me, would be a realistic and quick way to address the severity of crim code.

[Dracul]

Crim code is codedly whack.

Mercy Kill On and arm all the city guards with bludgeoning weapons. Criminals and slaves have value and could be harvested and thrown in the arena instead of creating a mess in a busy street.

It would convert more criminal failures into RP situations (even if just a more drawn out death) instead of a coded death, pulling more players together after a crim code interaction.

It would also encourage more criminal attempts with newer characters because honestly trying anything criminal is borderline suicide unless you are OOC ready or codedly baaaadasss....which...takes many many many hours of playtime.

[Armaddict]

I still just think it went heavy handed on making them effective at killing you.

I don't know if they got skill buffs, but the whole 'soldier arriving from nearby' is stupid.  Let criminals fight soldiers with an actual chance of getting away again, that was always a good time.  The whole 'Fuck this guy, attack him and I'll take my chances fighting my way to the 'rinth and see what kind of reception I receive there' gambit is just not present with how this was done, and the game lost something by it.

[Greve]

I would at least get rid of patrolling HG soldiers. With the human ones you get a chance to flee, unless there's 10 of them. The HG ones hit you for horrendous damage and reel you and you're dead before you get to input a command. I think it's anti-thematic for HG soldiers to roam the city autonomously. They should be shock troops and bodyguards, not policemen. We're told this race has the mental faculties of a child, are easily tricked and switch loyalties at the drop of a hat. And they are of course monstrously huge and strong, able to cause immense destruction at any time if not under control. In reality, there's no conceivable way that a city would let such a race wander the streets alone, armed and with authority. It's wildly unrealistic, for the same reason that RL police forces would not hire mentally handicapped people, give them bazookas, and send them out alone to enforce the law unsupervised. NPC HG soldiers should be limited to tasks and places where they're under constant supervision. PC HGs can serve as the exception, seeing as they invariably prove to be 500% smarter than the documentation suggests. Get rid of the NPC ones, all they do is harm the game for no reason and discourage criminal roleplay.

[Dracul]

I would at least get rid of patrolling HG soldiers. With the human ones you get a chance to flee, unless there's 10 of them. The HG ones hit you for horrendous damage and reel you and you're dead before you get to input a command. I think it's anti-thematic for HG soldiers to roam the city autonomously. They should be shock troops and bodyguards, not policemen. We're told this race has the mental faculties of a child, are easily tricked and switch loyalties at the drop of a hat. And they are of course monstrously huge and strong, able to cause immense destruction at any time if not under control. In reality, there's no conceivable way that a city would let such a race wander the streets alone, armed and with authority. It's wildly unrealistic, for the same reason that RL police forces would not hire mentally handicapped people, give them bazookas, and send them out alone to enforce the law unsupervised. NPC HG soldiers should be limited to tasks and places where they're under constant supervision. PC HGs can serve as the exception, seeing as they invariably prove to be 500% smarter than the documentation suggests. Get rid of the NPC ones, all they do is harm the game for no reason and discourage criminal roleplay.

THIS

[Grogerif]

I'm not going to go into too much detail.  But they already took steps to reduce half-giant soldiers in many areas of the city. 

[ShaLeah]

I would at least get rid of patrolling HG soldiers. With the human ones you get a chance to flee, unless there's 10 of them. The HG ones hit you for horrendous damage and reel you and you're dead before you get to input a command. I think it's anti-thematic for HG soldiers to roam the city autonomously. They should be shock troops and bodyguards, not policemen. We're told this race has the mental faculties of a child, are easily tricked and switch loyalties at the drop of a hat. And they are of course monstrously huge and strong, able to cause immense destruction at any time if not under control. In reality, there's no conceivable way that a city would let such a race wander the streets alone, armed and with authority. It's wildly unrealistic, for the same reason that RL police forces would not hire mentally handicapped people, give them bazookas, and send them out alone to enforce the law unsupervised. NPC HG soldiers should be limited to tasks and places where they're under constant supervision. PC HGs can serve as the exception, seeing as they invariably prove to be 500% smarter than the documentation suggests. Get rid of the NPC ones, all they do is harm the game for no reason and discourage criminal roleplay.

THIS

When the soldiers of the place you live in don't really care if you live or die...perhaps you had best be careful.

KIND OF this. 

Fuck making it easier for crime to happen under the watchful eye of the minions of a sorceror king. I'm all for harsh.

But...

Maybe HG soldiers can be coded to auto subdue.
Maybe normal soldiers can be coded to SAP then subdue.

We can already toggle arrest resistance the addition of a SURRENDER option is awesome. 

Maybe those additions might make it more realistic.

[Veselka]

The problem as I see it isn't when you commit a crime, it's when you commit a crime and you are already in combat.

For instance, you are a Mugger. You try to sap a PC/NPC and fail, and are in combat, and crime code kicks in. A soldier walks in and can't subdue you because you are already in combat, so they just kill you. This is compounded when it is a/multiple Half-Giant(s), and it is over before you can flee.

I support the idea of a 'Surrender <soldier>' command, where you willingly go to face consequences in jail, particularly if you have nosave arrest on.

I agree that I wouldn't want the crime code system to be less harsh, but it's binary right now. You are either not in combat and have nosave combat on, and are arrested if you committed a crime with no blood shed by you or soldiers, or you are in combat, have nosave combat on, and are instantly murdered, regardless of the severity of the crime. It would be nice if soldiers took into account the severity of the crime and responded accordingly (toggled mercy on if it isn't murder/defiling/etc, to drag you to the jails after you are unconscious). Or, alternatively, provide a means for a PC to surrender themselves to the mercy of the law via a 'Surrender' command.

Currently, it encourages people to do the worst crime possible, and get the skills to allow them to commit those crimes effortlessly before doing so in the city proper. It seems it provides less opportunity for fledgling criminals (particularly Muggers), because they will more than likely die before reaching any sort of notoriety. Perhaps that is as designed.

[ShaLeah]

The problem as I see it isn't when you commit a crime, it's when you commit a crime and you are already in combat.

For instance, you are a Mugger. You try to sap a PC/NPC and fail, and are in combat, and crime code kicks in. A soldier walks in and can't subdue you because you are already in combat, so they just kill you. This is compounded when it is a/multiple Half-Giant(s), and it is over before you can flee.

I support the idea of a 'Surrender <soldier>' command, where you willingly go to face consequences in jail, particularly if you have nosave arrest on.

I agree that I wouldn't want the crime code system to be less harsh, but it's binary right now. You are either not in combat and have nosave combat on, and are arrested if you committed a crime with no blood shed by you or soldiers, or you are in combat, have nosave combat on, and are instantly murdered, regardless of the severity of the crime. It would be nice if soldiers took into account the severity of the crime and responded accordingly (toggled mercy on if it isn't murder/defiling/etc, to drag you to the jails after you are unconscious). Or, alternatively, provide a means for a PC to surrender themselves to the mercy of the law via a 'Surrender' command.

Currently, it encourages people to do the worst crime possible, and get the skills to allow them to commit those crimes effortlessly before doing so in the city proper. It seems it provides less opportunity for fledgling criminals (particularly Muggers), because they will more than likely die before reaching any sort of notoriety. Perhaps that is as designed.

Are you saying it's not possible for a 20ft 13 stone HG to come in and subdue a perp while he's fighting another? Like code wise?
Would giving npcs 100% master sap guarantee no immediate death?

[Hauwke]

Half giants are more like 13 foot, and 800 stones.

[ShaLeah]

Half giants are more like 13 foot, and 800 stones.

I thought it was twice the size three times the strength.

[Veselka]

Code wise you can't subdue someone who is in combat as far as I know.

[Hauwke]

Half giants are more like 13 foot, and 800 stones.

I thought it was twice the size three times the strength.

They are twice the size, 13 feet is dead center on their height.

Three times as strong does sound about right. They do have a huge carrying capacity if their inventory allows it.

[ShaLeah]

Code wise you can't subdue someone who is in combat as far as I know.

It's not possible NOW but could it feasibly be coded for half giants to have that ability is the question.

Like an adult breaking up a kid/pet scuffle.

[Dracul]

Permawanted

Half giants (and anyone else within a population of a half million)

Thoughts?

-------------------
I'm thinking it's an OOC reasonable situation, ICly it's hard. Are Halfgiant susceptible to such implantation from the highlord that a small percentage of their feeble mind is tapped into the pscionic database? Fekk, I almost like that reach.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'd be all for a NPC HG soldier being able to subdue you in the middle of a fight, as long as when they did, all combat ceased.

[Greve]

I would like to see 'nosave arrest' apply only to NPC soldiers, not PC ones. Let's be honest, there's a pretty big difference. If you're trying to play a criminal in the city, having nosave arrest off is suicide because NPCs can attack you instantly after a failed subdue, so you simply die the first time that happens. PC soldiers can't do that, but they can subdue you at any time for any reason, whether or not you're wanted. This means that with nosave arrest on, you're perpetually at the mercy of all law enforcement PCs. They can (and have been known to) subdue you with impunity and drag you to your death if somebody wants you gone. Two of my last four characters died because somebody wanted me dead and had a soldier wander in, subdue without warning, and take me to my death. I wasn't codedly wanted, the reason for killing me didn't even have anything to do with actions that could make you wanted, it's just a loophole that any private or higher is apparently free to use. It doesn't even seem to be frowned upon, it's just the metagame, and I don't like it.

At the very least, I would like that to be possible only if you're actually wanted. In real life, while I would never dream of resisting an actual arrest, I certainly wouldn't just stand there passively watching as a cop charges me out of nowhere and tackles me to the ground without warning. If NPC soldiers behaved like PC soldiers in that a failed subdue gives me some time to react before they can attack, I'd play with nosave arrest off, but since they get to start combat instantly, I feel forced to play with it on so I don't get one-shotted by some HG soldier. But that leaves me completely at the mercy of PC soldiers, and we all know that 'run;south;subdue man' is standard fare these days.

[Inks]

I play with nosave arrest off on any criminal character. Harden up son, a PC soldier can also straight up cut you down and if you make it harder to arrest people that way they are more likely to just attack if capturing you (dead or alive) is a priority.