The Benefits of Employment

[Cind]

I kind of want more of the benefits of being employed to be hardcoded, because apart from protection from criminals and the other benefits that are already hardcoded, a lot of people don't really know or understand what their benefits are.

For example, two or three echoes in the streets of Allanak (or Luir's for Kuracis) that go something like: "Three dwarves speaking in the middle of the street before you stop talking, and one of them moves idly aside from you before they resume a conversation about <random topic.>"

This would be like the random dwarf you bump into in the bazaar upon moving to a new room who might be 'pale' or 'liberally-scarred' or 'plain'. Small details, most of them not a nod to your tiny inch of power, that set you apart from the masses as a person of actual worth.

These echoes and benefits would not mark you out as a noble or a recognizard bastard or aide (although those could have their own sets of echoes and benefits) but this is more like for byn sargaents, House crafters, House guards and merchants, etc.

Since most people in the game are employed at some point, with the bar and tavern full of them, it doesn't really feel that special to be employed except for the fact that you don't feel as afraid of the local thief when they walk in. If anything, it feels like becoming unemployed is moving into dangerous waters.

What sort of benefits do employed persons have do you think, which we are ignoring and could be coded in to remind us, is what I'm basically asking here.

[lairos]

To start off, I don't believe and have never really been under the impression that just because I am employed that I am protected in any way, shape or form outside of what the employer may offer IC on a case by case basis. You might get a little bump of note for wearing House colors and even more so if those colors belong to a Noble House, but nothing truly protected from others, especially criminals. I think that random commoners or even those from the Labyrinth would say less around you if so because of who you might blab to.

The benefits of employment, at least in most cases, are food, water, shelter, training, pay and gifts/bonuses. The shelter is typically highly protected so you don't fear for a criminal sneaking in and shanking you in the night or stealing your belongings. There are other advantages you MIGHT be able to get depending on who you can schmooze with that your House might have given you easier access to such as a Noble or Templar.

[only_plays_tribals]

A locker with low risk of theft is the most valuable treasure in the land.

[Riev]

To start off, I don't believe and have never really been under the impression that just because I am employed that I am protected in any way, shape or form outside of what the employer may offer IC on a case by case basis. You might get a little bump of note for wearing House colors and even more so if those colors belong to a Noble House, but nothing truly protected from others, especially criminals. I think that random commoners or even those from the Labyrinth would say less around you if so because of who you might blab to.

There are rules in place that if someone is "affiliated" with any larger organization, that you have to bump your inquiries to the nearest officer (as Arm, or Legion). Granted, rules are meant to be broken, but even a Recruit Crafter in under a Crew Leader they're currently having sex with can make your life hell if you start to pester them. There's a hierarchy list, somewhere, that gives you a general idea of "where you are", but one of the benefits is that you're supposed to be seen as "above" the common rabble.

Unfortunately, Arm has always had a problem with Common Rabble and Employment having equally beneficial consequences. Why work for House Kadius as a woodworker, when you (an indie) can pay a trader (also an indie) to bring you the materials you need, custom craft your own stuff, and never feel the consequences because you play opposite the current Kadian Crew Leader.

[Tiktak]

Free water, food, and rent has always been the greatest perk for any clan-ship. While I am against a coded, world-advantage like you're suggesting Cind, I would agree that some of these clan-ships could use a little more polish with the removal of hunting branches for some clans and the hiring cap in others. I would like to see that GMH of a certain rank and above get 2 Customcrafts a month. I would like to see that non-GMH Customcrafts get processed down, meaning they're not these amazing pieces of work and they should be more generalized to show that contrast of tool-access and training in said GMH. I would like to see that being in the Garrison or the Arm of the Dragon is more lucrative than the Byn to attract would-be participants in both clans, maybe this is done in pay or maybe in some other perk.

[Aruven]

I've been trying to make sense of how to drop into this conversation without being negative.

The type of interaction that the OP is referring to, and inquiring about, requires a massive amount of roleplay.

The way this read to me when I get rid of all the words to convey it is:

"It doesn't seem like people are respecting the fact that I am employed, I am not being protected and thus there is no reason for employment: Being the only real protection a clan could offer given other things...."

Templars and Nobles get assassinated in this game--So commoners are sucking.

Most of this is OOC and dependent upon players, as I see it. These to me all seem to be moving variables that have nothing to do with code.
If you are being messed with as an aide or employee, there's a chance your PC leader sucks, was naughty, didn't do something to protect you, or you are in a sweet plot arc and just deal with it.

Benefits of employment:

- Access to unique clan knowledge
- Access to unique clan plots
- Interaction with a PC player-leader that was put in the game to drive stories and be directly in contact with you
- Interaction with a clan staffer-leader that was put into the game to drive stories and be directly in contact with you reviewing your reports and inquiries assigns progress
- The influence boost for being affiliated with specific clans under specific leaders at specific times (Good leader/bad leader, how is the game world reacting to your clan and its members right now?)
- While this may be partially roleplayed: Direct Mentorship in just about any capacity on the skill tree.
- Oh yeah and about the uniform? You get a uniform.
- You can usually log into your clan holdings and find someone within three rooms of yourself without using the way to interact with

This is just kind of hip fire, someone could likely tailor up a much more in depth post about clans, employers, and the benefit of affiliation on an IC and OOC level.

There is likely a 'negatives' list too, of course.

As content has been removed from the game, and many of the clans have been tailored down and there have been both economic and structural shifts: It has been harder to justify bothering to take employment in some places.

The GMH changes in my opinion basically reduced that entire segment of the game down to where you could close the entire wing of houses and just have one PC per role that staff filled orders too. The only people usually joining GMH for instance these days, are people that are pulled into specific plot arcs, people who want to keep those clans in game, or people who don't understand the economy enough to know any better.

Everyone that has played the game has had discussions about never playing an aide, because out of spites aides get killed right at the starting line for petty shit all the time between nobles. Whereas, technically as an aide you should not be fucked with unless its absolutely necessary because you are borderline as valuable to that particular noble as his Mul slave, which costs  a lot. But every single wave of roleplayers has all kind ultimately done the same thing, so guess what, it's hard to find an aide role a lot of times, even with a consistent group of players only playing that role it seems like, and repeated attempts by staff to define the social hierarchy.

Simply put, while we might not be able to control the scenarios staff give us whether they say we asked for it or not, we can control player actions. This is all player action type of stuff to me, I guess I am saying.

[ShaLeah]

Thanks for the post Cind. I don't really agree with adding echoes that elevate the commoner walking down the street because he's employed. He's nobody really until he gets to be an actual merchant and becomes well known.

I have to disagree with Lairos on the protection issue. I believe an unaffiliated nobody is in much more danger of ending up on the pile than a house branded nobody, that's why they're all given house colors. Those colors protect and mark you. Slaves get collars, commoners get cloaks.

This is a perfect example of how we the players can bring the world alive better.

Zalanthas has a very intricate set of social hierarchies that should be undestood by every commoner. They are not. It makes me wonder if they are understood by most players because they're definitely not followed. Further proof that Tuluki has invaded Allanak in my opinion. Still I don't want echoes. I want players to lead by example and staff to enforce it the right way.

[Jihelu]

That chart is fucked, and people have noted it is fucked, for a variety of reasons.

I don't like the ideas of echoes though. That's weird.

[boog]

Pretty sure that that's the most updated or recent chart. Or one was posted and it still looked pretty similar.

I mean, of course employment isn't gonna benefit people when you've got Rinthers sitting in Red's in silks besides nobles, conversing with them as if they're old chums.

Food, water, and shelter are huge bonuses though. There should be some sort of social strata reinforcement, but I think that falls to players. If y'all notice in game that characters treat another with incredible disdain, you might wanna consider why. Are they a Rinther? A human tribal dressing in feathers? Breed? Elf? Magicker? Gross!

I feel like the lack of social hierarchy being enforced is because players seem to be a little less conflict oriented these days, maybe. Conflict is good! You don't hafta kill everybody you come across that you beef with, but you can have reservations and prejudices and discriminate because of them. YMMV! Let's play.

[Cind]

My echo was a bad example.

Perhaps if it were a pair of echoes--- one in the Gaj, one in the main thoroughfare--- where a small group talking to each other stopped as you passed by, and then started their conversation back up again as you left.

It would outline for newbies and people who have forgotten that being in a House is dangerous in itself, the House's enemies are now your enemies.

Aides do need some kind of protection though, but they're in a weird place codedly, which is why I think they don't last very long. A trained aide is very valuable to their noble but they are also, most of the time, just a commoner. Recognized bastards, who are the recognized product of a noble and commoner meeting, are either employed by that noble House or crazy, but staff have said and I think its in the docs, that recognized bastards are considered simply commoners by other noble Houses. While an interesting point, this strips a bit of protection from them that they really could have had otherwise.

[Veselka]

This more or less plays out IG already.

People who work for those organizations that have clout, are afforded that sort of subtle respect that comes with being employed there. Those that do not don't just get Strata by wearing a cloak.

There is difficult to perceive social grace that is granted by being employed. Someone who is unaffiliated has much more to worry about in their day to day -- Harassment from soldiers and Templars, being randomly fined, even arrested for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or being the wrong race at any time.

As with most things of this nature, those who are 'employed' likely take these difficult-to-perceive privileges for granted. But I don't think they need to be reinforced with echoes. I think that is in the realm of Staff to animate, and possibly (if you are of a higher rank in a GMH or AoD or a Captain in the Garrison and so forth) to reinforce the vNPC population through your own emotes. Tastefully, not often, and nuanced.

[Jihelu]

"Pretty sure that that's the most updated or recent chart. Or one was posted and it still looked pretty similar."

I just mean that the chart isn't correct. A MMH leader is going to have more swag and social power, regardless of their played time, than a regular GMH merchant. There are also a few other issues on there.

[boog]

MMH > GMH?

Uhm. I'm sorry. WHAT?

[Caerus]

The new dialogue system does allow for NPCs to have topics reacting to the player being a part of a clan, not being a part of a clan, or someone in the room being a part of a clan or not a part of a clan (or rank, for all the situations mentioned). From there, I suppose it's all about putting in the legwork.

[Jihelu]

MMH > GMH?

Uhm. I'm sorry. WHAT?

Yes.

A regular merchant, employee, of a greater merchant house...

Won't have nearly as much funds or power...

As the LEADER of a minor merchant house.

[Veselka]

That chart seems mostly accurate.

And sure, they may not have the funds, but they don't have the same clout as a GMH, no matter what MMH/Rank they might have. The political 'warring' there wouldn't end well for a MMH, regardless of who pissed in who's stew.

[coastline]

MMH > GMH?

Uhm. I'm sorry. WHAT?

Yes.

A regular merchant, employee, of a greater merchant house...

Won't have nearly as much funds or power...

As the LEADER of a minor merchant house.

A high school class president does not outrank a D.C. senator.

[Jihelu]

That comparison is bad in every way and you know it. A MMH is someone who has the political backing of a merchant house and several years building a mini empire.

[Veselka]

The truth is, a MMH Leader/Second/Whatever may think they are powerful, have powerful friends, have great amounts of money, and so forth...But they are ultimately one person who can be assassinated, maimed, and otherwise taken care of. They are fragile. A GMH is not fragile in any sense of the word. I think the head of the GMH could be executed, their friends and family executed, and there would still be some semblance of the GMH that remains and is brought to heel, for whatever reason that offending House Head was offed. The same could not be said of a MMH.

[Jihelu]

The truth is, a MMH Leader/Second/Whatever may think they are powerful, have powerful friends, have great amounts of money, and so forth...But they are ultimately one person who can be assassinated, maimed, and otherwise taken care of. They are fragile. A GMH is not fragile in any sense of the word. I think the head of the GMH could be executed, their friends and family executed, and there would still be some semblance of the GMH that remains and is brought to heel, for whatever reason that offending House Head was offed. The same could not be said of a MMH.

I think you got your G and M swapped there.

[Veselka]

Nope.

A MMH is ultimately weaker than a GMH. Thus -- Minor, and Greater.

Look no further than Koman Locke and what happened to his MMH after he died, if it was even of that status, which I don't think it was.

[Jihelu]

Nope.

A MMH is ultimately weaker than a GMH. Thus -- Minor, and Greater.

Look no further than Koman Locke and what happened to his MMH after he died, if it was even of that status, which I don't think it was.

I misread. I thought you meant an entire GMH could be wiped off the face of the world and no one would give a shit.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

The new dialogue system does allow for NPCs to have topics reacting to the player being a part of a clan, not being a part of a clan, or someone in the room being a part of a clan or not a part of a clan (or rank, for all the situations mentioned). From there, I suppose it's all about putting in the legwork.

Oh. That's cool. Really? Hmmm.

[Cind]

Koman Locke's group was pretty cool, and was seeming to my uninformed eyes like it was starting to gain some bit of power. Then he died and at least two of his leaders were non-human and I think that really killed what remained of the empire's ability to gain power, although the group continued to do business for at least a couple of years.

Does anyone know what the player caps are for Houses? Player cap= the maximum number of players that can be in the clan at a time.

[Veselka]

I don't think there is a hard number, it seems to be case by case. Particularly with Tuluk closed, there doesn't seem to be a point in capping players in clans. Even if there might be 15 Bynners one day,  it may very well be 10 the next, then 12, then 8, then 10 for a long time, etc. I think if like 20 people are in a clan, yeah. That's a little lopsided.