What age is it appropriate to start playing Arm?

[RogueGunslinger]

Just curious. I, personally, wouldn't let my kid play unless I though he was mentally mature enough to know what is going on. And, depending on how I want to raise my children, I'd ay that around age 14 or 15 is late enough. some players here have been playing since then, and I think it's about right.

Of course I wouldn't just let them play, I would sit down with them for the first couple weeks while they played, explaining things.



Edit: That's for my kids. I don't trust any of your idiot children to play with me.

[musashi]

I went with any age ... but only because I have sort of the same opinion you do. I wouldn't mind my child playing a game like Arm as long as they were mature enough to handle it ... whatever age that might end up being. (Likely, as you said, it would end up being somewhere in their mid-teens)

[Barzalene]

30

[FuSoYa]

30

Looks like I have to quit for seven more years... or like six years and two months.

Brandon

[Gunnerblaster]

I picked 16-18 because that's typically when people are getting a feel for the 'roleplaying' scene.

You'd be surprised to see how many articulate people are out there at only those ages.

Now, the question that should be asked:
"What age is it appropriate to STOP playing Arm?"

[BlackMagic0]

I picked 16-18 because that's typically when people are getting a feel for the 'roleplaying' scene.

You'd be surprised to see how many articulate people are out there at only those ages.

Now, the question that should be asked:
"What age is it appropriate to STOP playing Arm?"

Haha.. NEVER! YOU NEVER STOP PLAYING ARM! TIS YOUR DEATH WISH TO PLAY ARM!
Look at me! Cap Locks! I AM COOL! 

I went with the 16 and above thoughts. Seeing as how gotta grasp roleplaying, the death, the sex, drugs, fighting, just maybe easier for a 16+ child.

[mansa]

I started when I was 15.

[Is Friday]

Sure, I think you can start playing Arm at 15-17, but I don't think you'd get someone who enjoys the Full Monty until they were 20'ish.

[Mood]

Sure, I think you can start playing Arm at 15-17, but I don't think you'd get someone who enjoys the Full Monty until they were 20'ish.

I don't think so.

[Angela Christine]

I dunno.  Do you really want to have to explain what Mudsex is?   

I started when I was 15.

And look how mansa turned out!

[Bogre]

Started when I was 14.

And I had known what mudsex was for probably 2 years before that.

So there.

[staggerlee]

I said 19-21, but I kind of want to say something even older.
It has nothing to do with hiding it from kids, they've all seen sex, violence and swearing before. It's got more to do with me, and who I want to play with.

I want to play with emotionally mature players.

No offence kiddies.    I started young too.

[Qzzrbl]

I've been mudding since I was nine years old.

[a strange shadow]

17-18 seems about right for the emotional maturity that is needed to play Armageddon to its fullest.

[Ammut]

I started when I was 15.

Same.

[Ourla]

Text-gaming since I was 13.  Any smart cookie of that age knows what to avoid and what not to avoid.  I came late to the Arm game, when i was 24.

[Desertman]

I have been Arm'ing since I was 12 years old. I only ever noticed that it made English class a breeze, and my typing class was a joke.

I dont really see any negatives.

[Gimfalisette]

To be honest, most of you are jerks, and I don't really want my kid hanging out with y'all.

Actually I'm not really sure that most teenagers are able to really understand the necessary separation between IC and OOC. It takes quite a bit of maturity to be able to handle that aspect alone.

On the other hand, my son wants to go to a high school that has a special drama/theater program (it's highly-regarded program and very competitive to get in). So potentially, he could be ready for ARM much sooner than other kids his age.

However, you are all still jerks.

[Desertman]

To be honest, most of you are jerks, and I don't really want my kid hanging out with y'all.

Actually I'm not really sure that most teenagers are able to really understand the necessary separation between IC and OOC. It takes quite a bit of maturity to be able to handle that aspect alone.

On the other hand, my son wants to go to a high school that has a special drama/theater program (it's highly-regarded program and very competitive to get in). So potentially, he could be ready for ARM much sooner than other kids his age.

However, you are all still jerks.

Come on...let him come play with a few of my PC's...I would prefer in the Byn...I will teach him the real meaning of life. *Evil Laugh*

[Qzzrbl]

To be honest, most of you are jerks, and I don't really want my kid hanging out with y'all.

Actually I'm not really sure that most teenagers are able to really understand the necessary separation between IC and OOC. It takes quite a bit of maturity to be able to handle that aspect alone.

On the other hand, my son wants to go to a high school that has a special drama/theater program (it's highly-regarded program and very competitive to get in). So potentially, he could be ready for ARM much sooner than other kids his age.

However, you are all still jerks.

Come on...let him come play with a few of my PC's...I would prefer in the Byn...I will teach him the real meaning of life. *Evil Laugh*

If I knew about some of Desertman's characters when I was a kid, I would've aspired to grow up to be just like them. And I know I saw, "When I was a kid", but I really don't think I'll let age stop me this time.

[Dakkon Black]

Well, my little brother really wanted to start playing after watching me recently and he only turns 10 in august. He's having more trouble with typing fast enough and reading fast enough. His imagination and ability to really start getting into the game is just fine. He reads books and the likes and is really right into the game world, the issue being more his ability to spell quickly enough to keep up with other players.

I do worry a bit about the level of swearing and violence and what not, but then I watch him play any game on even gamecube and link is slaying hoardes of things with his sword.  And you'd just be lying to yourself if you think they didn't hear that kind of language all the time from the older kids at school. So.... might as well learn to type and read well while you're at it, no?

[Desertman]

Well, my little brother really wanted to start playing after watching me recently and he only turns 10 in august. He's having more trouble with typing fast enough and reading fast enough. His imagination and ability to really start getting into the game is just fine. He reads books and the likes and is really right into the game world, the issue being more his ability to spell quickly enough to keep up with other players.

I do worry a bit about the level of swearing and violence and what not, but then I watch him play any game on even gamecube and link is slaying hoardes of things with his sword.  And you'd just be lying to yourself if you think they didn't hear that kind of language all the time from the older kids at school. So.... might as well learn to type and read well while you're at it, no?

Give my your sibling...I will train him!!!

Errrmm..

I mean, play nice characters with him, and stuff.

[Malken]

The amount of adults having virtual sexual relationships with minors on this mud is insane.

I'm surprised that this never caused any problems in the past, but you really can't expect a minor to tell you OOCly that no, he doesn't want to go for it because he's a minor.

To the guy who says he wants to let his 10 years old try out Armageddon, what are you going to do the first time some PC asks your little brother if he wants a quick fuck in the backroom for cheap?

Seeing as how you can't roleplay a boy or a girl for these reasons, can you really allow a young boy or a girl to play the game for the exact same reason?

Just food for thoughts here

[staggerlee]

The amount of adults having virtual sexual relationships with minors on this mud is insane.

I'm surprised that this never caused any problems in the past, but you really can't expect a minor to tell you OOCly that no, he doesn't want to go for it because he's a minor.

To the guy who says he wants to let his 10 years old try out Armageddon, what are you going to do the first time some PC asks your little brother if he wants a quick fuck in the backroom for cheap?

Seeing as how you can't roleplay a boy or a girl for these reasons, can you really allow a young boy or a girl to play the game for the exact same reason?

Just food for thoughts here

I don't believe that's why they disallowed young characters.  It had more to do with the setting and the way roleplayers tend to depict young characters.

As far as the content of the game, it is a mature game intended for adults.  It would be up to the individual parent to decide whether the game is something they want their children exposed to.

However, and more importantly I think, I don't have any faith what so ever in the ability of your average ten year old to depict an adult character or even know how adults behave.   I find it massively jarring to play with incredibly new or young players, which isn't to say that I don't try to help them out, but I don't really believe that anyone that young will ever "get it" or be able to play the game as intended.

[Panda]

If I had kids, I'd let them start playing muds at any age.  Some muds are really age friendly.  For Arm, I'd prefer them to be mature enough to understand the concept of roleplaying, and the content, but that depends on the kid, more than the kid's age.  But probably teens, at the least.

I'd rather have them doing something like Arm or other muds, that I know and understand, and can supervise, than either doing it behind my back, doing other age inappropriate things on the internet, or doing stupid things with their friends.  The kind of stupid things I used to do as a kid would put fear in me, if I had a kid that was doing them.

[Kronibas]

I started playing not long after I turned fourteen.

I never was really academically inclined in school, so I doubt I would have my job (tutor) or a real area of "interest" (english), were it not for a hobby
that encouraged such.

For that reason and others, I don't see any problem with folks starting early.

However, if I were a parent/older sibling figure and my kids were starting the game, then I might give them some do's and don'ts about certain things.
and I don't think that's very puritanical on my part.

[Desertman]

I love the people who get all..."I'm opposed to this way of thinking!"...and they still play this game.

This game revolves around lieing, backstabbing, murdering, corruption, hate, anger, conflict, and down right nastiness. We are the HARSH MUD because its freakin'A HARSH!

Allanak is a prime example...People literally thirst to death in the streets every day, there are slaves, murderers, thieves, drugs, alcohol, whores...and if you think there arent kid whores...get with the program...

My point is, look at what you do in your spare time...Dont get all UPPITY with me about morals.

At the end of the day...Its a game people, its a game, that doesnt even have pictures...good god.

[Cutthroat]

I started Arm was I was 16, almost a year and a half ago. I did mudding in general before that. Different people become more mature at different rates, and I don't think there is a "magic age" where suddenly a person is ready to play Arm.

[musashi]

I love the people who get all..."I'm opposed to this way of thinking!"...and they still play this game.

This game revolves around lieing, backstabbing, murdering, corruption, hate, anger, conflict, and down right nastiness. We are the HARSH MUD because its freakin'A HARSH!

Allanak is a prime example...People literally thirst to death in the streets every day, there are slaves, murderers, thieves, drugs, alcohol, whores...and if you think there arent kid whores...get with the program...

My point is, look at what you do in your spare time...Dont get all UPPITY with me about morals.

At the end of the day...Its a game people, its a game, that doesnt even have pictures...good god.

+1. It's a game. Call me crazy but I really wouldn't blow a gasket if I came to find out my 10-15 year old child was looking at naked pictures and/or typing

Code Select Expand

emote does ~hooker really hard on the cot!

in whatever online game they were playing.

If said hooker PC was then OOC'ly saying: Wow that was fun! How about we meet up in RL? Well ... ok I'd start to have some issues very quickly ... but that doesn't happen on Arm. I would rather have a younger child play this game I think, than another because at least here I know how strong the desire to seperate IC and OOC is, and I won't have to worry too much about that "who are your children meeting on the internet" scare that plauges the nation.

[Qzzrbl]

The amount of adults having virtual sexual relationships with minors on this mud is insane.

I'm surprised that this never caused any problems in the past, but you really can't expect a minor to tell you OOCly that no, he doesn't want to go for it because he's a minor.

To the guy who says he wants to let his 10 years old try out Armageddon, what are you going to do the first time some PC asks your little brother if he wants a quick fuck in the backroom for cheap?

Seeing as how you can't roleplay a boy or a girl for these reasons, can you really allow a young boy or a girl to play the game for the exact same reason?

Just food for thoughts here

That's why you teach them the arts of FTB, and of the OOC consent rules of the game.

[Armaddict]

I started at 15 too.  *highfive mansa*

[NoteworthyFellow]

I started at fifteen, too.

I was one shit-ass roleplayer then, fresh out of some little message board roleplay thing where all of my characters were male Mary Sues and constantly died and came back to life.  All right, so I played Harshlands first, but man, Arm hooked me, easy.

Still, I was pretty bad at the whole roleplaying thing at that age, that I can admit.  I imagine there are others that age who were way, way better.

[Malken]

That's why you teach them the arts of FTB, and of the OOC consent rules of the game.

What's that? 

[Sephiroto]

I started when I was fifteen also.

Presently, I'd rather gag myself than play with anyone under the age of me.  I don't have the patience for people who have strive only to  "Kill shit" or mudsex.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

I started when I was 13 or 14. And, honestly, I think I was a better RPer then than I am now (I've lightened up since then).
All those people claiming that only a 20+ year old would only have the maturity to play this game are, no offense, quite full of it. Age isn't always linked to maturity. There are plenty of 25-year-old 2-year-olds out there, if you know what I mean.

[musashi]

Ayup.

[mansa]

I started at 15 too.  *highfive mansa*

*highfive back*

I didn't know that this game had a seedy underbelly of sex and murder until I turned 16, though.

[amish overlord]

I started at 15 too.  *highfive mansa*

*highfive back*

I didn't know that this game had a seedy underbelly of sex and murder until I turned 16, though.

Just crazy guys with rat traps?

Amish Overlord 

[Angela Christine]

That's why you teach them the arts of FTB, and of the OOC consent rules of the game.

That's what I meant about teaching them about mudsex.  It isn't that kids (even preteens) would have trouble figuring out what mudsex is, most kids are exposed to plenty of lewd movies, advertisements, games, etc.  It is more that a kid might be reluctant to say, "I'm uncomfortable with this scene and don't consent/withdraw my consent/want to fade to black" because kids usually want to seem as cool and grown up as possible.  They don't want others to think that they are wimps or babies.


And the next thing he knows he's watching as some guy is being anally raped and disemboweled by a soldier, and then the half-giant starts to . . . woah!






There is also the problem with keeping IC/OOC emotions separated, something that even some adults have trouble doing, and raging hormones aren't going to help.  Just because your PC is dating some other PC, doesn't mean that you are in love with his/her player, that his/her player is in love with you.  You are not in a relationship.  You are not going to be in a relationship.  Having a crush on a PC, an imaginary person, is ok, but it isn't the same as having a crush on the player.  Likewise, if another PC murders your PC, it doesn't mean that their player hates you or wants to hurt you.  It's all in good fun.


I believe that many teenagers, and even pre-teens, are capable of understanding the appropriate use of OOC consent, fade to black, and IC/OOC emotional distance, and so on, but I'm not sure that it would be intuitive to them.  If your kid, younger sibling, young friend, etc. wants to play, someone should take the time to explain it to them.

[Inix77]

Started at 11...failed miserably...came back at 14/15...failed miserably...come back and again...not failing too miserably??? I'd say 16-18, because then you really grasp the concept of how intensive you need to roleplay to actually fully appreciate the game.

[brytta.leofa]

I imagine I would have been able to cope with stuff in-game by 16 or 17.  (By "cope" I mean "maintain emotional distance where appropriate.")

The GDB is another story.

[Tisiphone]

Later.

[Desertman]

I started when I was 12, and luckily I some very understanding/patient Byn Sergeants around at the time to show me how to play the game. I remember the first time I learned what an 'emote' was....I still remember my very first emote...


emote kicks you in the shin.

(I didnt understand the whole...~ % ^ !...code tags...I thought when it said YOU on my screen, the other guy was typing YOU...so anytime I wanted it to say YOU on someones screen, I just typed YOU...This caused confusion when I went into taverns until someone pointed it out for me)

[Inix77]

I started when I was 12, and luckily I some very understanding/patient Byn Sergeants around at the time to show me how to play the game. I remember the first time I learned what an 'emote' was....I still remember my very first emote...


emote kicks you in the shin.

(I didnt understand the whole...~ % ^ !...code tags...I thought when it said YOU on my screen, the other guy was typing YOU...so anytime I wanted it to say YOU on someones screen, I just typed YOU...This caused confusion when I went into taverns until someone pointed it out for me)

I used to do that too!! (Not the kicking in the shin thing, the YOU thing)

[Kyviantre]

While I'm perfectly happy to RP with anyone mature enough to 'get' the game, understand the concepts, and generally not be a complete twerp, I'm not comfortable with my characters having relationships (or doing the dirty-rinthi-shuffle) with little'uns (ie, anyone younger than me!).  Never have been very happy with it, never will.  Then again, my method of combating it is to eye up a Player's maturity level through their PC, and make guestimates on age.  10 to 1, I always get them horrendously wrong...guestimating is not my strong point

That being said, in my mind, 18 is about right.  While I started MUDding at 17, it was in a nice happy little world where random mass slaughter, half-breed-making, and eye-watering-templar-torture didn't exist.  But, thats just me!

[FuSoYa]

I started MUDding at age 11-12 but didn't start Arm until I was 22.  I'm not really comfortable playing with anyone under 14-16 and I think even those I play with at that age are much more likely to not really grasp or get into the setting as well as someone with a bit more life experience.  Of course there are exceptions.

Also, I figured out a way to fix the mudsex problem.  Just be like me and FTB that shit!

Brandon

[Vessol]

I started playing MMO's when I was 8(Ultima Online), and roleplayed there almost entirely. And then played my first RPIMUD when I was 11.

I then eventually started playing Arm when I was 15 years old. I had no problem understanding the setting, the difference between IC/OOC, fading, etc. I knew how to roleplay. Game mechanics took a few months to memorize, but I got it down.

I think it's more based off previous experience. And while lacking in some teenagers, I think that many teenagers have the matureness to get interested and participate in a game like Armageddon, which could benefit them in both typing skills and writing skills which is always a plus. It's also a window of imagination that I previously only found when I was acting on-stage(which I both loved and feared due to disliking large crowds).

Now fast-forward 2 years and I am almost 18, still playing Armageddon, and I personally believe-a good roleplayer. Armageddon, even though it is harsh, could be welcoming to many players of many ages.

[Gimfalisette]

Of course, the vast majority of people posting in this thread are not parents...or even anywhere close to being parents.

[RogueGunslinger]

Yeah, it definitely skews the vote.

[Elgiva]

Of course, the vast majority of people posting in this thread are not parents...or even anywhere close to being parents.

I am close to be a parent!

Erm... and I'd not let my child to play the game unless s/he is at least fifteen.

[Dakkon Black]

What if someone comes up to my 10 year old brother and asks his char for a cheap fuck in the backroom?

For 1, I'd almost guarantee he'd be like, ugh, I wanna go kill a scrab, or something akin to that as an answer.

for 2, I've never had the same problems with sex the western world has. Violence and murder is just fine, but acts of love? Better hide that from the children. Wtf is this thinking?  It is not the thinking in latin america, or in europe.

So what if he see's the word codpiece written out in text. It's not going to screw him up mentally for life or something, it's a fact of life.

[FuSoYa]

So what if he see's the word codpiece written out in text. It's not going to screw him up mentally for life or something, it's a fact of life.

Somebody please quote this... I don't know why but it's hilarious to me.

Brandon

[Gunnerblaster]

I'm not comfortable with my characters having relationships (or doing the dirty-rinthi-shuffle) with little'uns (ie, anyone younger than me!).  Never have been very happy with it, never will.

Hehehe. I guess I fooled you good! =)

joking

[BlackMagic0]

So what if he see's the word codpiece written out in text. It's not going to screw him up mentally for life or something, it's a fact of life.

Somebody please quote this... I don't know why but it's hilarious to me.

Brandon

Done. 

[Vessol]

What if someone comes up to my 10 year old brother and asks his char for a cheap fuck in the backroom?

For 1, I'd almost guarantee he'd be like, ugh, I wanna go kill a scrab, or something akin to that as an answer.

for 2, I've never had the same problems with sex the western world has. Violence and murder is just fine, but acts of love? Better hide that from the children. Wtf is this thinking?  It is not the thinking in latin america, or in europe.

So what if he see's the word codpiece written out in text. It's not going to screw him up mentally for life or something, it's a fact of life.

Agreed with the taboo on sex. I would imagine that the violence and torture all over the place in Arm would be worse.

Also have to bring up. I have been playing Armageddon for 2+ years, mostly in the cities, and I have rarely had a situation where I was asked if I wanted to have a quick fuck in the backroom or what-not. Not saying it does not happen, but I find that one has to actively pursue it if one wants virtual nookie.

[Panda]

Even if people were asking people go to go the backroom of a tavern or something, pornography is easy enough to find on the internet, even with vigilant parents, and parental blocks.  Maybe not interactive pornography, like mudsex can be, but a kid that hasn't seen anything 'inappropriate' like that by 13 or so, is probably pretty sheltered.  You'd have to be naive, to think your teenager hasn't seen anything inappropriate, by that age.

Or maybe I just grew up with a bunch of unsheltered people.

Regardless, that would be less a concern of mine, than the ability to deal with mature content, and to keep in-character and ooc thing separated in their mind.

[Barzalene]

What about those people who want to avoid virtually molesting small children?

[BlackMagic0]

What about those people who want to avoid virtually molesting small children?

Virtually molest big children? 

Just teasing!! 

[brytta.leofa]

> ooc Do you, being at least 18 years of age, consent to graphic depictions of kidnapping, skulduggery, general mayhem, and conspiracy to deprive Allanaki citizens of their constitutionally-guaranteed rights?
> ooc If so, please answer "I do."

[Maso]

> ooc Do you, being at least 18 years of age, consent to graphic depictions of kidnapping, skulduggery, general mayhem, and conspiracy to deprive Allanaki citizens of their constitutionally-guaranteed rights?
> ooc If so, please answer "I do."

Maybe it should be an automated thing? For all scenes of violence and/or sexual content.

You see:

Code Select Expand


>consent lithe Scenes of violent torture.
You ask for OOC consent from the player of the big busted, lithe woman.

The player of the big busted, lithe woman has consented to scenes of violent torture.


They see:

Code Select Expand


The burly, brutish man OOC'ly requests consent for scenes of violent torture. Please type "Consent" if you consent to these scenes
and are over the age of 18. Otherwise type "No consent"

>Consent

You consent to scenes of violent torture.


[Vessol]

I would be against an automated system that can be done easily enough by ooc: Hey everyone concent to violent torture scene?
And it seems like your command would be for a singular person, oftentimes many scenes have multiple people.

Plus I don't see why you would ask if they were 18+. It's not illegal or anything for those below 18 to see textual violent or sexual scenes. They see more probably in TV and movies anyways.

[Maso]

I would be against an automated system that can be done easily enough by ooc: Hey everyone concent to violent torture scene?
And it seems like your command would be for a singular person, oftentimes many scenes have multiple people.

Plus I don't see why you would ask if they were 18+. It's not illegal or anything for those below 18 to see textual violent or sexual scenes. They see more probably in TV and movies anyways.

Well, personally I believe a minor would feel less intimidated by an automated system, and also more able to say "no" should they wish to. It's much harder for them to be put on the spot by an actual person and explain that no they don't really want to act out that scene. It is a lot easier to just have to type 'no consent' and not deal with the other person directly.

In regards to the person being 18+, aren't there legal issues involved with exposing minors to this sort of material?

[FuSoYa]

Also I don't think it's the question of legality either Vessol more of the fact that I don't want to be involved with scenes that might depict graphic sexual bullshit with someone who is a minor.  Whether they are 'mature' for their age or not.

Brandon

[Vessol]

As I am a minor for only a few more days. I have never been intimidated by the consent ask, nor have I had any problems RPing intense scenes. I think a lot of you need to try to remember being that age, you seem to depict us as immature dolts who get scared or intimidated easily, but ah well.

And I don't think there are actual legality issues of a minor RPing a sexual or violent activity with an 'adult'.

But who am I to argue? I obviously have a bias because I am a 'minor'. Thus any argument I make will automatically be scrutinized because I am just a "stupid kid", which in truth is kind of a other-sided bias, but :X.

By your posts it seems that the day someone turns 18 then suddenly they become mature, can handle intense shit, and all sorts of awesome things. Man I can't wait, if I'm this awesome now, just imagine me 18. I mean no one under 18 can possibly be emotionally capable of RPing successfully, but when they turn 18, man you better watch out!

In the end I think there are much worse things a kid could be doing than RPing a sexual or violent scene. If not, might as well keep 'em wrapped up in bubble-wrap

[Kyviantre]

I don't think that the problem people have is with a younger players maturity level, more with the fact that if they did do an 'adult situation' scene with a kid, while players know its roleplay, you do that using an instant messenger/chat room, and that is bad.

At least, thats the issue I have.  It makes me feel extremely uncomfortable to think about the idea, it doesn't matter if its consented or not, or whether they act mature or not.  If its illegal in my country (ie, they're a minor, etc), or if they're a lot younger, it just doesn't feel comfortable.  In my personal case, if you're mature, I'll be extremely happy to RP with you and have a whale of a time (or a silt horror, all depending!), but for certain consent-situations, I would rather just avoid the whole sticky issue (FTB and all!)!

[Vessol]

A major issue if someone is worried about doing sexual RP scenes is that in almost all cases you do not know the player behind the character, and shouldn't. I can understand the worry though.

[RogueGunslinger]

I've grown pretty comfortable with doing illegal things.

[Panda]

If I was really concerned about not doing sex scenes with minors, on a game where I don't know and don't want to know who the players are behind the characters,  I simply wouldn't do sex scenes, period.  Because you can't know.  So what, if they say 'yes, I'm over eighteen'.  I was telling websites I was over eighteen long before I was... it doesn't provide a thing, except a comfort level, that quite possible doesn't reflect truth. 

If the issue is graphic violence, I remember playing a lot of graphically violent video games.  At seven years old or so, Resident Evil.  And so on.  And I was reading adult books, horror novels, and other things, before the age of ten.  Would I let my kids?  I don't know that I could control my kids that much.  Kids have friends, and other parents are going to be, undoubtedly, more laid back than I might.

So... in short, I don't know.  But I think it's avoidable to do things that might be illegal, and impossible to know if something really is illegal or not anyway, in this context.

[Tisiphone]

Have those of you claiming that you see no problem with children being exposed to what amounts to popular culture nowadays because you were as children stopped to consider that by most historical standards of morality, you yourselves are pretty fucked up?

[Panda]

I've considered it, yes =)  Morality is a very relative concept historically and culturally, sociologically speaking.  It's a pretty fascinating topic.

[Gimfalisette]

I don't know that I could control my kids that much.

I'm going to address just this snippet--this applies to video game violence, internet use, watching TV, friends, sugar intake, caffeine intake, diet as a whole, homework, relationships with relatives, fashion choices, etc etc etc. and the question of "controlling" one's kids.

Note to start with: When I go out in public with my kids (ages 5, 7, 12), people regularly compliment me on their behavior. Last night we were in Trader Joe's, I told my daughter to stop jumping around while she had a lollipop in her mouth, some woman said to me, "What a good mom! I was noticing that your kids are so well-behaved." This also happens when we go out to restaurants. My kids are extremely well-behaved.

The reason my kids are well-behaved is because they are well-trained. Despite being strong-willed, brilliant, attitude-full kids, they listen to their parents, and they obey. They obey because I (and my husband too) kindly, firmly, do not give them a choice but to obey. In every area of their lives, my sacred duty is to teach them the -best- ways to live. Were I to let them make all their own choices, learn merely by trial-and-error, or act like it didn't matter how they live...I would be cheating them and lying to them.

I have control over how much TV my kids watch, and the type and level of violence in the video games they play, and in the movies they see. I have control over their reading--reading is not optional in our family, it is something everyone learns to do for pleasure and learning, and does daily. I have control over who they hang out with, and how they relate to their own friends and their nuclear and extended families. I have control over what my kids eat, and what they learn about nutrition--dinner is not optional, and kids will minimally taste the food that is put on their plates. And so on and so forth, in every area of their lives.

I don't do any/all of this because I'm a control freak...I'm really not. Being in control is exhausting. However, if I did not do this job, my kids would not be becoming the awesome people they are. Controlling, teaching, guiding one's children is not a question of "CAN I do it"...it's a question of "WILL I do it?"

Sure, the balance of control changes over time, as is appropriate to the age and maturity and understanding of the child. I don't have to force my 12-year-old to eat dinner anymore, because he's already well-trained so that he loves a variety of foods and is happy to eat nutritious stuff. Sometimes I suggest he eat something that's very nutritious but which he just doesn't feel like eating...and that's OK with me, because I know he knows what he's doing now. I don't have to force my 7-year-old to read anymore because he's learned to love it. However, in the past, both of these things were huge battles. But I love my kids enough so that I was willing to fight the battles...and win, for THEIR sake.

Failure to discipline one's children is not love, it is something opposite...neglect.

I love my children, I discipline them, I train them...and my kids won't be playing ARM before (if ever) I deem them ready, because quite honestly I am a better influence than y'all are.

[FuSoYa]

Well, give them a few years to grow into their skin and you might see a few rebellions.  Great kids don't always eat what they are told, jump when they are told, and stop when they are told.  You sound like a great mom (I mean come on... you play ARM, that's already like +10 cool points in my book) and like you have some rad kids.  I'm just saying... if they get a mind of their own and decide to start hanging out with friends, sipping on the hooch, smoking a little weed and finger-banging whoever will let them... well it's all part of growing up right?

Brandon

[Malken]

I don't think it's a question of being mature enough or not to handle a sex scene, I just think it's against the law to have any sort of sexual contact with a minor, virtual or not, and if the minor you're mudsexing on Arm tells you that he is an adult and lying, then you, as the adult, is still going to be guilty if caught by the law.

So, if a minor tells you OOCly that he is an adult, if he's lying, and for whatever reason someone decides to bust you, then you're still guilty of sexual contact with a minor.

That was my point a few pages ago, it had nothing to do with wondering if a 10 years old is mature enough or not to handle a torture scene or a sex scene..

[Tisiphone]

I'm just saying... if they get a mind of their own and decide to start hanging out with friends, sipping on the hooch, smoking a little weed and finger-banging whoever will let them... well it's all part of growing up right?

Brandon

No.

[Gimfalisette]

Well, give them a few years to grow into their skin and you might see a few rebellions.

Rebellion is a daily issue in my home My kids won't GET minds of their own, because they were BORN with them. However, that doesn't change my duty to protect and teach them, and to provide relevant consequences (rewards and punishments) with the intent of modifying their behavior. So long as they depend on me in some way--meaning, they are not fully adults yet--this is the way it is. Even when my kids are all grown up and self-sufficient, the teaching relationship will naturally and necessarily continue. For example, I intend to teach my kids about what qualities to look for in a potential spouse--because by then I will have 20-30 years of marriage experience, both good and bad, and I just know a lot that's relevant to the topic, and I know my kids.

So, point is, just because my kids can/do/will make some bad choices and screw up from time to time, that doesn't change my responsibility. Once you're a parent, you don't stop being a parent at some magic number like 13, 18, 21, or 30.

[Gimfalisette]

I don't think it's a question of being mature enough or not to handle a sex scene, I just think it's against the law to have any sort of sexual contact with a minor, virtual or not, and if the minor you're mudsexing on Arm tells you that he is an adult and lying, then you, as the adult, is still going to be guilty if caught by the law.

I would strongly suspect Malken is right about this. Just because an ARMer attempts to claim, "It was In-Character, not Out-of-Character!" doesn't mean a cop or a judge or a jury is going to see things the same way.

[FuSoYa]

So, point is, just because my kids can/do/will make some bad choices and screw up from time to time, that doesn't change my responsibility. Once you're a parent, you don't stop being a parent at some magic number like 13, 18, 21, or 30.

In that case I agree with you.

Brandon

[FuSoYa]

I'm just saying... if they get a mind of their own and decide to start hanging out with friends, sipping on the hooch, smoking a little weed and finger-banging whoever will let them... well it's all part of growing up right?

Brandon

No.

Wow.  You really have gone on a downward slope to snippy-ness and meaness lately.  Chill out Tis... it's ok to laugh, we're all just idiots on a web forum.

Brandon

[Tisiphone]

Yeah, I have. Check out the other threads, too.

Don't know what's up with me lately, maybe I'll take a break entire from the GDB.

[FuSoYa]

Yeah, I have. Check out the other threads, too.

Don't know what's up with me lately, maybe I'll take a break entire from the GDB.

It's ok dude, and yea I just saw the other threads.  Trust me, sometimes I get a bad attitude on shit too and don't take a break unless you feel you need one, not because other people think you do.  It's all good though, I know for one I like having you on the board (not to mention IG) just felt compelled to say something. 

Brandon.... who realizes everyone is in a bad mood sometimes and needs a place to vent. 

[Barzalene]

It's not just a question of legality. It's a matter of ethics. It's a question of what type of person you choose to be. Do you choose to be the type of person who has inappropriate relationships with people below the age of consent?
I personally choose not to.

[BlackMagic0]

Yeah, I have. Check out the other threads, too.

Don't know what's up with me lately, maybe I'll take a break entire from the GDB.

It's ok dude, and yea I just saw the other threads.  Trust me, sometimes I get a bad attitude on shit too and don't take a break unless you feel you need one, not because other people think you do.  It's all good though, I know for one I like having you on the board (not to mention IG) just felt compelled to say something. 

Brandon.... who realizes everyone is in a bad mood sometimes and needs a place to vent. 

WAIT WAIT! HOLD THE PHONE?!

Tis is a guy? 

[FuSoYa]

No... I'm pretty sure Tis is a woman.

Brandon

[Panda]

I don't know that I could control my kids that much.

I'm going to address just this snippet....

And, I think that's great, and I respect that.  I wish more people would be as caring, and as vigilant, as parents.  But, the snippet being in the nature of a personal statement, I don't think I could control my kids that much.  I don't think I would have the drive to do so.  I also recognize that I would be a terrible parent, and due to what might be considered fortunate circumstances of biology (in this instance only, really) I don't have to worry about it being put on me accidentally, or before I feel I'm responsible enough, or mature enough, to handle it.

I'm going to go out on a limb, and assume that when/if you deem your kids ready to play Arm or a similar game, it'll be based more on their maturity, and less on their specific age.  It correlates, to some extent, but not entirely.

I don't know that I'm claiming that I have no problem with kids being exposed to pop culture these days, as saying that I don't have control over what other people's kids do.  And in this kind of environment, you can't really tell who is a kid if you have no ooc contact with someone, and who is not.  Even if they explicitly state that they aren't.  Even if you're playing a game that claims to be 18+ only, which this one isn't.  You're going to have to act accordingly.

[Dalmeth]

I'm just saying... if they get a mind of their own and decide to start hanging out with friends, sipping on the hooch, smoking a little weed and finger-banging whoever will let them... well it's all part of growing up right?

Brandon

No.

Wow.  You really have gone on a downward slope to snippy-ness and meaness lately.  Chill out Tis... it's ok to laugh, we're all just idiots on a web forum.

I found Tisiphone's statement wholly appropriate.  The situation is simply not as narrow as you presented.

[Tisiphone]

I stand by my sentiment, but my formulation could use a little work in most cases, as of late.

[FuSoYa]

Meh... it was like half joking half just because... whatever that means.

Brandon

[Reiloth]

Introducing my kids to Arm would be like shooting up in front of them.

[musashi]

I'm pretty sure my kids would think Arm is lame anyway. Watching someone else play a text-based online game is not the most riveting experience.

But in any case, I agree with FuSoYa in so much as to say that: Well behaved children = !Mature well behaved grown-ups.

People make their own choices, even little children. If a child kills someone and says they did it because playing Armageddon told them to ... I still don't think it's Armageddon's fault, or the parents of the child who let them play Armageddon's fault ... because if Armageddon hadn't told them to do it, the toaster-oven, television, favorite sock puppet, or glass of orange juice would have.

And there are countless examples of children who were horrific growing up turing into wonderful adults ... there are countless examples that go the other way too, and many many shades of grey inbetween.

Plus that old African saying really holds true: It takes a village to raise a child. Once they start getting out of the house, they get exposed to a whole lot more than their parents will ever even know about.

I'm not saying parents shouldn't try to raise their children the best way they know how. They certainly should, and I'm glad my parents did! But ... just don't be too surprised/upset when and if your children choose to break from the mold you've so carefully fashioned for them.

Err ... /derail

[AmandaGreathouse]

I chose 10-12 myself. Not because it's a concrete thing. But really it would be more based on the maturity they showed. I don't, however, think that anyone under that age should be allowed to. And, truthfully, up until about 14, I would want to try and monitor things. I understand that a lot of people think that just because someone is under 18 they lack maturity. But, really, it wouldn't be so much for the kid, it would be for others, more of a, hell-no you don't consent! type thing. Because, truthfully, a lot of 13 year olds would more than happily not only consent, but instigate. And really, the idea of having my pc screwing some other pc doesn't bother me, it does bother me that it may or may not translate to being a crime. And no, I don't have kids, I am going based on my own choices, maturity, vocabulary, interests, and views from about the age of ten on.

[Sokotra]

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Introducing my kids to Arm would be like shooting up in front of them.

.

[My 2 sids]

This seems like an adult game to me. 

[Inix77]

This seems like an adult game to me. 

What qualifies it as an adult game? Do you say that becuase you do not think under 18s (or there abouts) are not mature enough to RP properly? Or just don't understand the game enough to RP well?

[My 2 sids]

This seems like an adult game to me. 

What qualifies it as an adult game? Do you say that becuase you do not think under 18s (or there abouts) are not mature enough to RP properly? Or just don't understand the game enough to RP well?

Actually, I think it's because I tend to view all high schoolers as, well, kids.  As an adult _I_ don't want to do a lot of violent/ drug/ sex - themed interactions with kids.  I know I can't always tell, and I still love Arm, but I just feel a bit uncomfortable Role-playing something I'm not sure I'd role play in real life with kids.

[staggerlee]

I wonder how the "appropriate age range" figures would compare to the actual distribution of age and how much correlation or discrepancy we'd have.

[musashi]

Some one should start a "how old are you" poll thread.

[Inix77]

Some one should start a "how old are you" poll thread.

Too OOC  God I've wanted to say that.