Roleplaying Peeves

[Vessol]

Even if I do or do not add the name as a keyword it is BAD ROLEPLAYING for that person to get suspicious if they look at you and notice that it isn't a keyword.
If I give a fake name to someone in RL, and they look at me they can't automatically go "OMG UR LYING TIME TO ARREST U OR THREATEN U!"
:roll:
Like I said, I have problems taking anything the player who did this says seriously anymore, I simply have to laugh when they are being hypocritical.

[Fathi]

People who join your clan, log in for 10-15 minutes a day during which they ask you if there is anything interesting going on. If nothing particularly huge is going on at that exact moment, they then rant about how boring their job is and then log out. Even if you tell them, "No, but we'll be doing ____ come dawn," or whatever.

[Lizzie]

People who join your clan, log in for 10-15 minutes a day during which they ask you if there is anything interesting going on. If nothing particularly huge is going on at that exact moment, they then rant about how boring their job is and then log out. Even if you tell them, "No, but we'll be doing ____ come dawn," or whatever.

QFMFT

[Lizzie]

On the name/keyword thing:

If you tell me your name is Amos while we're sitting at the bar, and I say "So, Amos - how long have you been in the city?" and you ANSWER me...then you should have Amos as your keyword.

If you answer to a name, then refusing to add it immediately (or prior to giving the name out) as a keyword is using OOC means to avoid IC interaction, and therefore cheating.

As far as addkeyword goes - I thought you can only do that to yourself, and not to someone else? I hope it can't be added to someone other than yourself, in any case. If you could add it to someone else, it would be pretty easy for any twink to add "gortok" to someone in their hunting party they didn't like.

[Armaddict]

If you answer to a name, then refusing to add it immediately (or prior to giving the name out) as a keyword is using OOC means to avoid IC interaction, and therefore cheating.

I disagree!  Strongly fucking disagree.

[Maybe42or54]

If you answer to a name, then refusing to add it immediately (or prior to giving the name out) as a keyword is using OOC means to avoid IC interaction, and therefore cheating.

I disagree!  Strongly fucking disagree.

Why?

IRL, if you tell me your name is Jimbo to my face, I should be able to recognize you as Jimbo. My recognizing you is symbolized IG by addkeyword.

[Zendri]

I disagree!  Strongly fucking disagree.

I second this.  If I had to add every name that my PC has ever responded to, my keyword list would be a catalogue of Zalanthan obscenities.

Jokes and extremes aside, thanks to psionics, keywords are a largely permenant link to your character.  Just because you spent 20 minutes sitting near someone at the bar doesn't mean they should have the means to reach out and touch your PC at a moment's notice.

If it's a nickname your character goes by all the time, okay, sure.  But I'm all in favor of disposable names used for disposable conversations.

[psionic fungus]

Secretive organizations make use of aliases all the time.  Many times new names are used for each individual job.  There is no reason why this shouldn't be possible...

[X-D]

Quote:
If you answer to a name, then refusing to add it immediately (or prior to giving the name out) as a keyword is using OOC means to avoid IC interaction, and therefore cheating.


I disagree! Strongly fucking disagree.

I disagree as well.
Problem is, technicly, YOU checking to see if it is a keyword IS using OOC methods to determine something IC and therefore cheating.

IRL if I go to a bar and tell someone that my name is Amos, and I anwser to it for the night. does that make my name really Amos? No, it does not. The next day I could go to the same bar and call myself JOJO Monkeyboy and refuse to notice or respond to any idiot yelling Amos. And why is this, because there is no keyword nametag stapled to your forehead IRL. Sadly, something you can do IRL...legally... you cannot do in game. And that is CHANGE you name.

I really wish we had a temp keyword command in game myself. Sort of like the mood command.

Matter of fact, NOT having a tempkeyword ability has been a peeve of mine for a very long time.

[Lizzie]

Problem is, technicly, YOU checking to see if it is a keyword IS using OOC methods to determine something IC and therefore cheating.

IRL if I go to a bar and tell someone that my name is Amos, and I anwser to it for the night. does that make my name really Amos? No, it does not.

No, but it does mean that if I see you at the same bar tomorrow, and say "Hey Amos, sitting at the same chair huh, what's the matter, they superglue you to it?" then you WILL know that I am talking specifically to you. And that means - you recognize YOURSELF as the "Amos" in my end of the discussion. You might refuse to answer me, or pretend that you didn't spend an hour talking to me last night and buying me drinks. But you -will- know, that I know, that you told me your name is Amos yesterday, and that Amos is exactly how *I* know you. Your name could be Miko, or you might even be a cross-dresser named Kiki on her day off. But I know you as Amos, whether that's your name or not. And code-wise, I -should- be able to type "look amos" and the code would know that I'm talking about you. The method of the code knowing that I'm referring to you, is with the keywords. I cannot add a keyword to your pfile. You have control over that. And if you refuse to add it, I will ask the IMMs to kindly do it for you.

[Vessol]

Problem is, technicly, YOU checking to see if it is a keyword IS using OOC methods to determine something IC and therefore cheating.

IRL if I go to a bar and tell someone that my name is Amos, and I anwser to it for the night. does that make my name really Amos? No, it does not.

No, but it does mean that if I see you at the same bar tomorrow, and say "Hey Amos, sitting at the same chair huh, what's the matter, they superglue you to it?" then you WILL know that I am talking specifically to you. And that means - you recognize YOURSELF as the "Amos" in my end of the discussion. You might refuse to answer me, or pretend that you didn't spend an hour talking to me last night and buying me drinks. But you -will- know, that I know, that you told me your name is Amos yesterday, and that Amos is exactly how *I* know you. Your name could be Miko, or you might even be a cross-dresser named Kiki on her day off. But I know you as Amos, whether that's your name or not. And code-wise, I -should- be able to type "look amos" and the code would know that I'm talking about you. The method of the code knowing that I'm referring to you, is with the keywords. I cannot add a keyword to your pfile. You have control over that. And if you refuse to add it, I will ask the IMMs to kindly do it for you.

BUT! When someones uses l Amos and sees its not your keyword and REACT IG to it, THAT is when it is cheating and abusing the system. You can't deny that.

[Lizzie]

I agree that is bad roleplay - not exactly cheating though, because people would simply be reacting the only IC way they can think of, to someone intentionally abusing the code.

Personally, I find it annoying as hell when the dark-haired tall man says "Hi I'm Amos" and I try

tell amos (with a smile) Hi I'm Talia.

and I get..

You don't see that here.

or whatever the return is.

So I think..huh - he must be spelling it wrong.

tell amso (with a smile) Hi I'm Talia.

You don't see that here.

tell tall (with a smile) Hi I'm Talia.

You tell the tall, ugly undead raptor, with a smile, in sirihish, "Hi I'm Talia."

In summary:

If you give someone a specific name you wish for THEM to call you, then add it as a keyword. If that means you have 200 keywords before your character dies, tough.

[psionic fungus]

I disagree, for the exact reasons I stated before.

[Vessol]

Another problem that presents itself is in the docs it clearly states that true names hold power and psionists can use those names against you. Therefore it would be completely reasonable to use fake names when you can't trust someone with your true name. Adding that keyword gives that person the coded ability to well, use psionic powers which is what you are trying to avoid in the first place.
So it is defiantly not bad RPing if I give a fake name. It is bad RP when someone acts up because they can't use it as a keyword.
And justifying that with 'not adding a keyword is cheating though so its a reaction' is BS I think. That would be like me killing a newbie or a twink JUST because OOCly they annoy me. Its just bad RP.

[Lizzie]

Then explain to me how to resolve that problem I mentioned. I'll put it here just to see it more clearly:

>The tall dark-haired man says, in sirihish, "Amos. Nice to meet ya."

tell amos Talia. Same to you, Amos.

You don't see that person here.

tell amso Talia. Same to you, Amos.

You don't see that person here.

tell tall Talia. Same to you, Amos.

You tell the tall, wiry female elf, in sirihish, "Talia. Same to you, Amos."

The tall wiry female elf says to you, in allundean, "Xiry eoiw orrzz losspk."

ooc misdirect

tell dark Talia. Same to you, Amos.

etc. etc.

and in the meantime, the guy who pretended he is amos, thinks my character has been ignoring him all this time, because he hasn't seen me respond, all because I was TRYING to respect his use of *A* name he referred to himself with, and using it as a keyword. Which is what I HOPE people do once they find out my character's name, so THEY don't confuse ME with that other green-haired vixin.

[X-D]

Wrong again, I will not know your talking to me, Because my name is not Amos, for tonight its JOJO Monkeyboy and that is the name I am bothering to remember for the night, Or, if I do remember you, I'll likely give something completley different in order to confuse and piss you off so you will leave me alone. Tomorrow it will be Ginka...and by then I will likely have forgotten I ever even used Amos, and soon after that Any of the others. IRL I've given false names before, and the fact is, often, after an hour or two of NOT using it, I will no longer hear it, specialy not in a bar setting. I actually have to THINK about the fact that I am using another name...but I will hear my real name or nicks that I accept as my names as well because I do not have to THINK about them. And there in lays the problem. Your PC CANNOT forget any pseudoname once added by code, EVER for any reason. Your PC could live for 50 game years and NEVER EVER give that name again, to the point where you, the player have LONG forgotten that you ever used it,  but if its in keywords...Code wise he would still answer to it, and that is unrealistic in the extreme.

[NoteworthyFellow]

Wrong again, I will not know your talking to me, Because my name is not Amos, for tonight its JOJO Monkeyboy and that is the name I am bothering to remember for the night, Or, if I do remember you, I'll likely give something completley different in order to confuse and piss you off so you will leave me alone. Tomorrow it will be Ginka...and by then I will likely have forgotten I ever even used Amos, and soon after that Any of the others. IRL I've given false names before, and the fact is, often, after an hour or two of NOT using it, I will no longer hear it, specialy not in a bar setting. I actually have to THINK about the fact that I am using another name...but I will hear my real name or nicks that I accept as my names as well because I do not have to THINK about them. And there in lays the problem. Your PC CANNOT forget any pseudoname once added by code, EVER for any reason. Your PC could live for 50 game years and NEVER EVER give that name again, to the point where you, the player have LONG forgotten that you ever used it,  but if its in keywords...Code wise he would still answer to it, and that is unrealistic in the extreme.

But in any coded use of keywords that I am aware of, you are never made aware of what keyword is used to interact with you, especially not in an IC sense.  In this way, it is realistic, plenty so.  Say I were to give you a completely fake name one night at a bar, but you manage to remember it, even if I don't.  If I see you again, you will remember that as my name--you can look at me, thinking that it is me by that name, and you can call me over by that name, but I might not answer to it.

The same idea works in the game.  Say your character's real name is Amos and they give the fake name Bill.  You will never know if someone is typing "look amos" or "look bill" to look at you, and it doesn't matter; the keyword they use only refers to what they know you as.  If they say "tell bill Hey, what's up?", then that doesn't mean you're answering to Bill; it just means they were talking to you.  If they say "tell bill Hey, Bill, how's it going?" and you don't remember going by Bill--or decide not to remember going by Bill--you are always welcome to roleplay as if they have you mistaken for someone else, or anything of the sort.  Just because it's a coded keyword for you doesn't mean you're answering to it.

And if that bothers you that much--that a keyword your character wouldn't know they have still exists--all of that could be fixed by allowing a "remove keyword" command that only lets you remove keywords added after character creation (as in, none of the ones in your sdesc).

[Lizzie]

Then X-D, I'd love to hear how you would resolve what I have presented twice already, using the current code. Because I have come across that frequently, and I have never come across what you have mentioned.

So far, everyone whose "name" wasn't really their "name" was either a forgotten-to-add keyword, or a misspelling, or an outright refusal to add it. And never was it someone who didn't answer to that name, whenever someone called them by that name.

To say that we should all cater to the exception, and fuck the norm, seems pretty unfair, no?

[Zendri]

Then X-D, I'd love to hear how you would resolve what I have presented twice already, using the current code.

I'm not X-D, but okay:

>The tall dark-haired man says, in sirihish, "Amos. Nice to meet ya."

tell amos Talia. Same to you, Amos.

You don't see that person here.

keyword tall
1.tall - the tall, wiry elf

2.tall - the tall, undead mantis

3.tall - the tall dark-haired man

4.tall - the confused-looking dwarf

tell 3.tall Talia.  Same to you, Amos.

You tell the tall, dark-haired man, in sirihish, "Talia. Same to you, Amos."

This is a non-issue.  Misdirects happen, and people know that.

[X-D]

No

Read the home page on fairness.


As to your problem. I don't care. Its an OOC annoyance to you that you cannot use a certain keyword. You still have the sdesc, you KNOW they are keywords. You know there is a keyword command. Use them. But wanting to force me to addkeyword to cater to your ideas of fairness and making sure you can indeed use code when I think you should not be able to is "to me" on par with power emotes.

Till there is a remove keyword command

all of that could be fixed by allowing a "remove keyword" command that only lets you remove keywords added after character creation (as in, none of the ones in your sdesc).

And that is exactly what I was talking about BTW.

Then we have to go with using a simply false name.

and you don't remember going by Bill--or decide not to remember going by Bill--you are always welcome to roleplay as if they have you mistaken for someone else, or anything of the sort. Just because it's a coded keyword for you doesn't mean you're answering to it.

Wrong, the code forces you to go by it...Like somebody was saying about another PC telling him he was a lier because he used code to check and see if it was a false name (OOC method there) So, My PC tells you his name is bill. A month later your PC tell another about Bill and gives a vague desc. Blue eyes and red hair.

Now when that PC sees anybody with blue eyes and red hair, or even one of the two, he sits and does either keyword bill or look bill. If that PC does not have the keyword Bill...then he waits for the next one.

Hell, a long time ago -I- even did such, at least 2 times picking out wanted fugitives that my PC had never met...AND they had even gone to the trouble of sdesc changes. Today I try REALLY hard not to do so because frankly...its LAME.

[Malken]

We'll just have to disagree to agree.

[Dalmeth]

Another problem that presents itself is in the docs it clearly states that true names hold power and psionists can use those names against you. Therefore it would be completely reasonable to use fake names when you can't trust someone with your true name. Adding that keyword gives that person the coded ability to well, use psionic powers which is what you are trying to avoid in the first place..

I'd like to see this documentation, because I can't seem to find it.  The name taken at character creation simply is not given much importance by the code as I've seen it.  Keywords are a convenience for other players to reference your character without needing to look through a keyword list.

On another note, adding a nickname to your keywords does not give them your character's true name.  So apparently, they don't need your true name to use psionic powers.  You seem to have stated as such.  All they need is a keyword.  Even "cloak" would do if you had your hood up.  So this business about true names is moot.  You're just trying to keep players from using the code on you when by all rights, they should be able to.

Also, restricting keywords verges very close to cheating.  If the words used in the sdesc were long, such as the iridescent, nigrescent man, and the character only went by a long string of nicknames that were never added to the keyword list, that would be cheating.  So, you can see that isn't a solution.  It is too easily abused and people will abuse it.

Oh, a solution to the player who refuses to add a nickname to their character's keywords is to allow players to reference other PCs with keywords of their choosing.  I don't know what kind of resources that would take, but it's an idea.

EDITED : My brain's broken.  I needed some time to clean it up.

[mansa]

http://www.armageddon.org/help/show.php/magick%20basics

The endless research into magick and spellcasting has revealed certain consistencies among the symbols. As is well known, true names of things give power over them, and it is this principle that has been recently theorised to be the case with Magick. Each symbol may in fact be the true name of an elemental or spiritual power.

On another note, adding a nickname to your keywords does not give them your character's true name. So apparently, they don't need your true name to use psionic powers. You seem to have stated as such. All they need is a keyword. Even "cloak" would do if you had your hood up. So this business about true names is moot. You're just trying to keep players from using the code on you when by all rights, they should be able to.

This is true.  Characters only have 1 'truename'

Also, restricting keywords verges very close to cheating. If the words used in the sdesc were long, such as the iridescent, nigrescent man, and the character only went by a long string of nicknames that were never added to the keyword list, that would be cheating. So, you can see that isn't a solution. It is too easily abused and people will abuse it.

You can survive wars for having long keywords in your sdesc.  "moustached" - I'm looking at you, Olafson.

Olafson had a character survive because his sdesc was way too long to type in such a short period of time.

[Dalmeth]

http://www.armageddon.org/help/show.php/magick%20basics

The endless research into magick and spellcasting has revealed certain consistencies among the symbols. As is well known, true names of things give power over them, and it is this principle that has been recently theorised to be the case with Magick. Each symbol may in fact be the true name of an elemental or spiritual power.

This is a theory stated in the documentation.  Food for thought for characters in the game.  Even if the theory were correct, it either only applies to the elements, or the truename of other objects is something separate from the name they are called by.  It has nothing to do with the OOC convenience of adding a nickname you have your character go by to the keyword list.  My roundabout point was that it was a purely OOC consideration from the start.

]You can survive wars for having long keywords in your sdesc.  "moustached" - I'm looking at you, Olafson.

Olafson had a character survive because his sdesc was way too long to type in such a short period of time.

Well, if there was some proof that he did this on purpose and abused it intentionally, then it would be considered cheating.  However, if the full sdesc was "the moustached <whatever gender of whatever race>," I'd be surprised.

[Fathi]

So this business about true names is moot.

I honestly think what Vessol posted possibly verges on sensitive info, so I'm not gonna add to it. All I'm gonna say is: please don't post unless you're absolutely certain you have a clue what you're posting about, Dalmeth.