Roleplaying Peeves

[psionic fungus]

Any time you are dealing with a person who is giving a false name and has their identity somehow concealed you are dealing with a situation where it is completely feasible that the name should not be able to be used as a keyword.

Hopefully in 2.Arm there will be additional ways to disguise or conceal one's identity, and thus more reasons why permanently attaching a keyword to someone when they use an alias is completely counter-productive and illogical.

Peace.

[Barzalene]

I think I agree with those who say that if someone is using a disposable fake name that you'll have to find some other way to identify them. That's the point of a fake name.

Which seems more likely

Detective Joe: We did a search and we didn't find anyone in the area with the name Amos Malik.
Victim Bob: Well, that's what he said his name was.
Detective Joe: What else can you tel me about him?
Victim Bob: Well, he had a brown teeth from chewing tobacco and a tattoo of a kank on his forearm. He was a bout 5' 9" and about your weight.


or

Detective Joe: We did a search and we didn't find anyone in the area with the name Amos Malik.
Victim Bob: Well, that's what he said his name was.
Detective Joe: Nope, no records. Listen next time you see him, rename him Amos Malik. Then we can track him down. No worries.
Victim Bob: I'll hunt him down and add him a keyword!

[Coat of Arms]

As stated by the documentation, truenames hold power over most things. It's reflected both by the docs and by in-game code that I won't provide details for here. I've had several characters whose background included that as the reason for not using their real name, and it has always been approved without comment.

To check for keywords in order to influence your in-game actions, such as the infamous story about someone pointing somebody out as a liar because they told a "false name", is cheating. Everybody can tell why. I consider it almost as bad form to purposefully avoid adding your used names as keywords in order to avoid being recognized. If you've introduced yourself to ten people as Amos then you should definitely add the keyword.

Another peeve of mine is when players avoid writing bios or using the think command about a subject so that mindbenders won't find out. If you won't take the in-character consequences of your actions, why are you even playing a roleplaying game?

[naatok]

Look, if my character gives your character a false name in an interview or otherwise and you use the code to have your character somehow know that mine is lying, I will make SURE that my evil 'gick is going to dissolve the flesh off your character's bones.

But worse than this...are those who will scan, scowl suspiciously, flee or otherwise react to the following:

The round-eared elf looks down at someone.

Yeah.  I know the code allows everyone in an area/room to see that there is 'someone' there who can't be seen by you when apparently someone else can see them.  But guess what?  There are people in real life who see things all the time, that to you, simply are not there.  When someone irl is staring off into space do you ask them, "Wh-who is here?!  Who do you see?!  WHAT DO THEY LOOK LIKE, DAMN YOU!!!"

I'd love to see the code changed so you CANNOT get any message about someone you can see looking at someone else that you cannot see.  But until that happens, let's try to be realistic about it.  Unless someone your character can see gives more indication other than simply 'looking' at someone your character cannot see, there just ain't nobody else there!

[Troicha]

The main problem with people not wanting to add keywords seems to be a Way issue.

This is a valid issue; a good way to protect yourself against mindbenders is to give false names.

Solution: an addkeyword command on either end (doesn't really matter where, though I'm favouring the person whom the other is fooling) which works for all interactions except psi and other instances wherein it could be argued that the user needs a persona in mind.

[Maybe42or54]

I fail to see how adding a nickname is forcing your character to remember that name. If you told me your name is Henry IRL, I may say, "Hey, there is Henry." I'll 'look henry,' and see Henry.

Now, if I go up to you and talk to you, "Hey Henry, How you doin'?"
It is up to 'your' pc to decide if that is their name or not. If it is a nickname you use, don't respond, but -I- will know you as Henry.

[Lizzie]

That is exactly what I'm trying to say Maybe2xxxx...

If I know a specific tall, muscular man as Amos - the one with the kank tattoo on his forearms, shaggy grey hair, green eyes, who does -not- have the Tuluki caste tattooes and is NOT that Kadian Merchant...

Then I should be able to "tell amos Nice to meet you." and the code would direct me to THAT tall, muscular man.

If that is how he introduced himself to me, then I should be able to use that name to interact with him, code-wise. I shouldn't have to type "keyword tall room", only to miss once again, because JUST as I hit the enter key, some OTHER tall guy walks into the room, or the one I wanted to target was 3.tall, but 2.tall just logged out, making 3.tall the tall gangly defiler and not the tall, muscular man.

This happens MUCH MUCH more often than someone intentionally giving a fake name that he plans on never using again and therefore doesn't add to his list of keywords. In fact, as I've already said, I've never encountered someone who didn't answer to a fake name that he provided to my character.

As for true names, the point -is- moot, because we can codedly interact with tall, hooded, cloak, mask, gangly, green, and whatever fake name appears as a keyword on a person's list. None of those are true names, and if ONLY true names have some special secret use, then that wouldn't change a bit.

[psionic fungus]

The point is that when someone gives you a fake name, other people shouldn't be able to use that to track them down.  You shouldn't be able to use the fake name to find their mind, because their mind does not have that label... They wont respond to it.  It wont work.

This is just an OOC annoyance that you are going to have to live with.  There is no way for anyone to set up a temporary keyword for the use of false names, and that is what the situations described require.  Just because you met a guy named Amos with a kank-tattoo, and later you see some dirty guy with a similar tattoo, it doesn't mean it is Amos.  If a PC dies in the first two hours of playing, do you treat them and their corpse as the same person?

There would be -no- point in ever giving a fake name if they worked just like real names.  Try using a fake name IRL at a bar sometime.  When people run into you days later and call you "Bob" or whatever, you may have no idea what the fuck they are talking about, and say something like "No, man, I'm not Bob... Must be someone else".

With psionics, giving a false name is the Zalanthan equivalent of giving out a fake phone number.  Ladies?  This happens to my friend all the time (ha ha ha!), he buys girls drinks at the bar, gets their number, and guess what... It's not their number.  How cruel.  How unfair.

There are so many ways that being able to add a keyword to someone else could be abused, and there are so many situations where using a false name is completely appropriate, I just cannot fathom how anyone can continue to say that having false names should be impossible.

"tell Amos" is an OOC game command.  It has nothing to do with the IC reality of Zalanthas.  "tell Amos" not functioning is nothing more than an OOC inconvenience, so get over it.

[Maybe42or54]

PF, I understand your point of view now. Here is my idea.

How about "add falsename"

help falsename

Adding a falsename would allow PCs, that can see you, to use the falsename. Players cannot use the falsename while using the way.

[GoodwinX]

You shouldn't be able to use the fake name to find their mind, because their mind does not have that label... They wont respond to it. It wont work.

Good point, because whenever I try on a new hooded cloak, I always make sure to think about it real hard so I can attach its label to my mind.

I agree that you shouldn't be able to identify someone you've never met using a fake name that you heard from someone else. I do, however, think that if someone gives you a fake name and you spend an hour chatting with them, you should be able to use that name to contact them because that's the name you associate with their figure and their psionic presence.

You should therefore be able to add a personal keyword for another character that only you can use to reference them. It would be a part of your pfile as a pointer towards their sdesc, but it wouldn't actually affect the target's pfile.

[Armaddict]

If I know a specific tall, muscular man as Amos - the one with the kank tattoo on his forearms, shaggy grey hair, green eyes, who does -not- have the Tuluki caste tattooes and is NOT that Kadian Merchant...

Your lover says, in sirihish:
 "Hey, baby, how was your day?"

addkeyword baby

Your buddy at the bar says, in sirihish:
 "Hey there drunkass.  I only see you here at the bar, you drunkass."

addkeyword drunkass

That asshole who harasses you all the time says, in sirihish:
 "Shut the fuck up boyo."

addkeyword boyo

Yup, you know and react to all the little names people decide to call you in the game.  Does that mean they should all be keywords?  Nope.  Neither should fake names.  It's not cheating.  The above examples are 'easy' ones, ones that you, in particular, Lizzie, are probably rolling your eyes at.  But the concept remains the same.  Some people know you as things other than your name, and use those ways they know you as instead of a name.  It's not cheating to lead someone towards something like that, it's a social option.

If you get given a name, then realize you can't use it as a keyword, USE A DIFFERENT keyword.  Using their lack of keyword to find out they're using a fake name and therefore letting people know you think they're being shady is the closest thing to CHEATING that I have seen in this discussion.  Though even then, I'm not so sure it's cheating.

Hmm...what the hell?  I can't find that guy's mind...weird.

[Maybe42or54]

We aren't talking about the same idea here Armaddict.
If you -introduce- yourself to me as Boyo, I should be able to recognize you as boyo.

If I give you a nickname, then I should use a keyword you already have, as it is -my- choice to give you a new name.

[Armaddict]

There is no difference.

I -introduce- myself as something YOU know me as.  It is what YOU call me.

[Kradock]

You shouldn't be able to use the fake name to find their mind, because their mind does not have that label... They wont respond to it. It wont work.

Good point, because whenever I try on a new hooded cloak, I always make sure to think about it real hard so I can attach its label to my mind.

I agree that you shouldn't be able to identify someone you've never met using a fake name that you heard from someone else. I do, however, think that if someone gives you a fake name and you spend an hour chatting with them, you should be able to use that name to contact them because that's the name you associate with their figure and their psionic presence.

You should therefore be able to add a personal keyword for another character that only you can use to reference them. It would be a part of your pfile as a pointer towards their sdesc, but it wouldn't actually affect the target's pfile.

I love this idea, and personally think it would resolve all of this. It would resolve people having to add keywords to themselves, and allow people who have been introduced to the individual with a fake name to manage keywords<--EDIT so it only affects them.

Is it foolproof? No. There would probably be no way to stop people from giving someone a temp name of kankfecker.

I would much rather be able to do a "l Amos", then have the code return something about not seeing that person. It would be much less jarring, and I would also not have to deal with navigating multiple sdescs in one room that might share keywords.

In a place where it is acceptable to Way someone you have only seen as "the tall figure in a hooded cloak", I don't think it is too much to ask to allow some sort of KEYWORD management.

[Lizzie]

We do have alias management. Check "help alias" for info. The problem with this, is if I am trying to talk to a very specific tall muscular man, the one with the tattoo of the kank on his forearm, who is definitely a half-elf, whose hair is very long and black with dyed-green streak down the left side, then aliasing amos as tall muscular man will show the 'wrong' amos in addition to the right one. My character knows the difference between the tall muscular man with the green-streaked black hair and the kank tattoo, and the tall muscular man with the short blonde hair, no tattoo, whose ears are perfectly round and shows no indication at all of having any elven heritage. And if my character is trying to talk to the one who introduced himself to her as Amos, then theoretically, there is no reason she would talk to the one who hasn't ever met her or worse - is her boyfriend of 20 years named Spike.

[Eternal]

My biggest Roleplay peeve is the one I struggle the most with.  Slang / Speaking from stations.  I've heard in the past that I struggle in portraying lower-class individuals, likely due to my own speech patterns and writing styles, and that they often speak above their 'place'.

I find it extremely jarring when a noble uses street slang regularly, or a street urchin speaks as though they just moved from the Atrium to the 'rinth.  Since I'm guilty of this (and make conscious efforts to avoid it) I can hardly condemn anyone for the fault.

Something to keep in mind when you're trying to immerse yourselves and make things enjoyable for those you interact with.

(Sorry, but I felt the need to get it back on track.  The nickname discussion really does deserve its own thread.)

Lord Templar Hard Nose says, in 'rinthi-accented Sirihish:
"Yo Holmes, what's afoot?"

[Kradock]

We do have alias management. Check "help alias" for info. The problem with this, is if I am trying to talk to a very specific tall muscular man, the one with the tattoo of the kank on his forearm, who is definitely a half-elf, whose hair is very long and black with dyed-green streak down the left side, then aliasing amos as tall muscular man will show the 'wrong' amos in addition to the right one. My character knows the difference between the tall muscular man with the green-streaked black hair and the kank tattoo, and the tall muscular man with the short blonde hair, no tattoo, whose ears are perfectly round and shows no indication at all of having any elven heritage. And if my character is trying to talk to the one who introduced himself to her as Amos, then theoretically, there is no reason she would talk to the one who hasn't ever met her or worse - is her boyfriend of 20 years named Spike.

I meant keywords rather than alias. I'll edit the post.

[Mood]

Punctuation.

Or, rather, a lack of it. I'm seeing a lot of people who simply don't bother to use periods, commas, or capitalization.

This drives me up the fucking wall.

[Hot_Dancer]

The magick helpfiles/documentation are common knowledge to everyone in Zalanthas?

I've been playing wrong, never going to use a true name again.

[Elgiva]

I find it extremely jarring when a noble uses street slang regularly, or a street urchin speaks as though they just moved from the Atrium to the 'rinth.  

I feel guilty.

All my characters speak as if they just moved from the Atrium, I think.

Mostly because my English sucks and I can't use any slang. I even OOCly have troubles to -understand- rinthers sometime.

[NoteworthyFellow]

My biggest Roleplay peeve is the one I struggle the most with.  Slang / Speaking from stations.  I've heard in the past that I struggle in portraying lower-class individuals, likely due to my own speech patterns and writing styles, and that they often speak above their 'place'.

I find myself often struggling with this one.  My current character speaks with a rather uneven "uneducated" tone; meaning, I try to make him sound lower-class, as he is, but I'm often inconsistent in the way I do it.  Sometimes it's hard for me to quite figure out how a character should talk, too.  For example, what if you're a commoner, but you're a noble's aide?  Should you talk "properly?"  How about if you're a high-ranking officer in a noble house's military?  A high-ranking officer in the Allanak militia?  You're still a commoner, and sometimes have had quite a rough-and-tumble life, but you're also in a position of power, prestige, and dignity.  Should you then sound more "educated?"

Though, I will admit that, being an English major, I have a lot of fun butchering the language with my more lower-class characters.  It's just hard to keep it consistent and to know how much to butcher it.

[Eternal]

One of the best ways I've found to deal with adapting in-game slang is to create characters that would interact well with others in a low-class setting.  I learned quite a lot from a black, pierced 'rinth elf a few years back.  I think this would help immensely even for those who aren't native English speakers.

That is a hard and fast rule I use for many of my characters, come to think of it.  Whenever I consider a challenging concept, I often write it up and then set it aside.  Next, I apply for a concept that would allow me to learn what it is that I found challenging (like an actor studying for a role), typically allowing myself a lot more freedom and room for error.  When my character dies, I can look back at the challenging one and determine if it still seems as fun and gauge my abilities from that point.

Lord Templar Hard Nose sings, in 'rinthi-accented tatlum:
"Fek before krath, except after shite."

[Coat of Arms]

My biggest Roleplay peeve is the one I struggle the most with. Slang / Speaking from stations. I've heard in the past that I struggle in portraying lower-class individuals, likely due to my own speech patterns and writing styles, and that they often speak above their 'place'.

I actually don't mind terribly when, for example, a rinther isn't talking like a pirate on heroin. Their coded accent is still rinthi, and even if the words translated into a more player-friendly english it doesn't mean that your character spoke in that tone. That's why accents are coded. With some of the more extreme written accents I've seen, I would actually prefer that the player had just written it in textbook english so that I could even read more than half of it.

Code Select Expand


The figure in a dark, hooded cloak says, in a rinthi-accented sirihish:
   "Hey, how you doing?"

can =

The figure in a dark, hooded cloak says, in a rinthi-accented sirihish:
   "'ey, 'ow y'doon?"

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Well, I think there's a drastic difference between saying, "Thar ain' no watah roun' 'ere fo' da nex sikz mi'es", and saying "There's no water aroun' 'ere for th'next six miles".

One is bad sentence structure, and one is an accent. I see nothing wrong with accents in even a Noble's speech pattern, but poor sentence structure is not a terribly likely thing for the highborn or high-employed, who have come to understand how sentences and words reflect their clan or House.

[DesertT]

When people feel like they need to go OOC to correct a mispelled word that MOST anyone can tell was mispelled on accident.

Person says, 'That's a nice grene bracelet you have on.'

Person OOCs, '*green'