Special attack Combat Delay

[Dresan]

I currently don't like how the combat delay is implemented. Don't get me wrong i like there being a delay (wouldn't even mind a longer one) but i only think it should apply to  special moves. The main thing i don't like about it is how it prevents people from disengaging or fleeing. This fact makes skills like kick recieved from some sub-guilds useless:

stamina drain (which i like) +Delay (can't flee or disengage) +low skill cap+ additional penalties (it might be getting too much into the code so i'll leave it at that) =almost useless and dangerous skill to use. The risks seem to outwiegh any possible benifit now.

I personally do like the idea of attempting one last kick before trying to run off since the stamina penalty already may make this a dangerous attempt. Also it seems to me that there is also a huge delay if you start off combat
with a special move like kick or even sap...that might just be me though.

[Hymwen]

I agree to an extent that combat skill delay shouldn't prevent all things. I wouldn't find it unfair if someone was allowed to get or drop things, draw or sheathe weapons, and disengage. But fleeing wouldn't work in my opinion, it would make it possible to do such things as backstabbing, bashing, kicking or sapping and then fleeing instantly which would be really bad.

[Ghost]

Actually, I do like the idea of special attacks inducing a delay.  Because when you are in combat, you are probably very busy, holding your balance, trying to kill your opponent quickly, and trying to stay alive at the same time.  If you are managing to deliver a kick or trying to run your opponent over, you are putting your character in a difficult situation.  You are trying to regain the balance and catch up the flow of the fight, which is the one taking the time.

[Dresan]

Maybe a small seperate delay for fleeing (~5 seconds) just because kicking/disarming/bashing someone then bolting for your life at full speed shouldn't take as long as preparing yourself to perform another well executed manuver. As for backstab and sap meh, i'm not sure, i see the point of it for preventing abuse but hit and run is usually the whole point of those skills. I can go both ways on those two skills.

Again i like there being a delay before attempting another special attack again but such a huge delay before being able to bolt out of there or just stop attacking is a little off in my mind at least.

[UnderSeven]

I havn't personally tried out the new combat changes such as drains on special skills yet, so take my oppinion as such.

But the way I saw it was the drains were unpleasant at first but got less so with skill in the skill.  Well, I agree with the original poster, it does seem that some of these changes have hit sub guilds really hard and made their low cap skills more or less useless.

Maybe I'm wrong.  I'm not sure what solution exists.. if any.

[Hot_Dancer]

In fights between more established warriors, managing your delays can mean big pay offs. They get into kick lag.. you disarm and bash them..etc.


Personally, I dislike the attack lag because someone can always flee while you're in attack lag, return to the room and subdue you before your lag goes away.

Hot Dancer

[elvenchipmunk]

I actually think combat is fine the way it is right now. If you're attacking someone (which I think is the only case that the initial attack has a delay), just make sure you have enough HP/stamina/stun to get away after the delay is up. Every time you attack someone there's a chance that your opponent is better than you, and you'll simply have to take that into account before attacking, I think. I barely notice the stamina drain, and all those delays seem to be in the right spots IMO.

The only thing I potentially have a problem with is if when you perform a special move on someone and they get a delay, or when you attack someone and they get a delay for it. Now I'm not sure if that's actually the way it works, as I've forgotten, but that would be the only problem I currently have with the combat code.

[Agent_137]

pretend the delay is actually your character executing the kick.

there, problem solved.

Also, kick and all the other "special attacks" are wholly worth it if you are skilled ICly and smart about your timing OOCly.

on the subguild issue, i've never seen any subguild skills that are really worth a damn unless they become part of your main guild skillset eventually.

Are they suppossed to be worthwile?

[Ghost]

Are they suppossed to be worthwile?

They are not supposed to be I guess.  But I can count at least a couple skills that are worth taking via subguild.

[spawnloser]

Agent, I have to say that you're wrong.

Subguild skills can be worth a damn.  Can you ever become a master?  No.  Do you start off as good as someone that gets it in their guild's starting skills?  Likely not, but in some cases you start out better, it seems to me.

Subguild skills are underrated by some and overrated by others.

[Paris]

pretend the delay is actually your character executing the kick.

there, problem solved.

Also, kick and all the other "special attacks" are wholly worth it if you are skilled ICly and smart about your timing OOCly.

on the subguild issue, i've never seen any subguild skills that are really worth a damn unless they become part of your main guild skillset eventually.

Are they suppossed to be worthwile?

I often emote the attempt before I do it, which is basically delaying me twice.
We have to role-play around code sometimes, but lets try to get rid of any
cause that we can.

I agree with you to an extent on the sub-guild issue though.

[Cuusardo]

Paris:  Don't feel obligated to emote every single time.  Throwing an emote in there and here is good, yes, but you don't need to emote your PC to death.  (And in a life or death situation, that can happen.)

[Marauder Moe]

I usually like to emote AFTER the coded attack, taking the result into consideration.

[Manhattan]

The more impossible, the more fun.
Let's nerf every skill in game, I say.

[Sholdyn]

If you are fighting something which you are worried might kill you if you try to kick it (because of the lag) then I think the biggest problem is that you shouldn't be fighting it in the first place.

[Flaming Ocotillo]

In fights between more established warriors, managing your delays can mean big pay offs. They get into kick lag.. you disarm and bash them..etc.


Personally, I dislike the attack lag because someone can always flee while you're in attack lag, return to the room and subdue you before your lag goes away.

Hot Dancer knows his combat, and I'm going to agree with him that there is a lag management game involved in combat (especially when playing a warrior), and I think it adds a strategic depth to the limited options that exist in Arm's combat engine. I'm also going to agree that while this does add a strategic depth to the game, there are some issues with opponents who flee after you execute a lagged attack move. Examples include: an opponent flees after you execute the initial "kill" command with lag, only to come back into your room and pull off a subdue, or throws a knife from the adjacent room they fled into while you stand there helpless. This is normally not such a big issue because very few Armageddon players are "hardcore" kung fu masters of the Arm combat code with lightning reflexes, and so it isn't seen often. These kung fu masters have tested the lag times on all their attack moves, and will have a system designed for when it is appropriate to lag themselves with attack moves, and when it is better to watch and commit to nothing. Very often you want two characters involved in an attempt to kill someone, not because of the safety it provides or the extra firepower it packs, but because you need one unlagged person available to respond to the situation with the appropriate move, depending on the outcome of the initial attack.

Sounds complicated? Well it is, and maybe this post will inspire some people to take a deeper look at "lag management" and how much it helps with keeping a combat-oriented character alive. There's no shame in being in harmony with the combat code and trying to attain spiritual enlightenment. I'd love to write a "guide to coded combat" for Armageddon and stick it up on the web page, but I don't think that would fly with the staff. There would also be a lot of players threatening to stab out their eyes if it wasn't taken down (see section III: blind fighting).

[jstorrie]

Zen and the Art of Forty-Day Warrior Maintenance?

[Dresan]

One of the bigger problems i see is with charge, if you successfully charge someone, they can stand up in a seconds notice and you'll still be stuck on your mount, of couse we all know how great mounted combat is, so the person cannot only flee but more likely then not really screw over the charger while he/she is delayed.

I'd like to see stamina penalities for using the same special attack in succession not just the current strict delays, if you spam kick three times the first should cost you 4, the second 8, the third 16 after that if you wait a while the kick might cost you 13 stamina, had you waiting longer it might have cost you 7 again...you should have to wait a while before kicking again costs you the minimun stamia,recovery time is of course dependant on your endurance.

This idea might be more effective when stamina drain while fighting is implemented and wearing out your opponent becomes more of a viable option and stratagy (esspecially if the more tired you are the less effective the PC's fighting is).

This would also make every PC a slightly different fighting experience then others, which a player would have to learn and get comfortable with along with make Endurance more important.

Editted: Also i really think the penalities for not being on your feet while in combat should be switched with the riding pentalites or something, something sitting can still own a PC that is riding. Also some sort of delay before being able to stand during combat would be nice.

[Vesperas]

This would also make every PC a slightly different fighting experience then others, which a player would have to learn and get comfortable with along with make Endurance more important.

A little off topic, but I really support the idea of being able to 'wear down' opponents.  It's realistic, and I'd personally like to see more balance among the stats.  Don't get wrong, they're all great and useful for something, but it just -seems- that one particular stat governs more skills and combat in general than any other.