Man and Woman, Man and Wife?

[Monogamous Kank]

Okay. You're a commoner. You have a decent job, an apartment, and a person of the opposite sex whom who happen to have been raising kids with for the last fifteen years. You have at least a semi-monogamous relationship. You argue about where to put the furniture and how to spend the money, and then have make-up sex after the kids go to sleep.
So, my question is: what are you? Can you refer to each other as husband and wife, eve if you're not technically "married", in the noble sense of the word?
What terms would you prefer to see, in-game, to describe this sort of relationship?

[Delirium]

My suggestions, off the top of my head:

Mate, lover, housemate, partner.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Can you refer to each other as husband and wife, eve if you're not technically "married", in the noble sense of the word?

I don't think that husband and wife has the same meaning on Zalanthas that it does on earth.  On Zalanthas, husband and wife are terms that are used to refer to a male and female (respectively) who has signed a marriage contract.

Use whatever other word you want.

[mansa]

My suggestions, off the top of my head:

Mate, lover, housemate, partner.

Definitely.  Delirium's on the ball.  I wouldn't refer to each other as wife and husband, because in Zalanthas, those terms are really only for those who can read and write up contracts.  Use other terms for that kind of relationship.  Mate is a good one.  Partner is another.

[Malifaxis]

Financee'?

[Anonymous kank with wings]

I don't see why there can't be a Zalanthanian form of marriage. It could be as simple as an exchange of statements of verbal commitment before witnesses.

Female Zalanthanians don't have governments collecting taxes and support payments and providing childcare. They're going to want (need, even) to have daddy around to help raise the children, for sake of protection and financial resources (= putting food on the plate). Marriage is a natural extension of this need because it gives the female some assurance of support in raising the kiddies.

Maybe this isn't a popular opinion but it's a practical one in terms of survival.

[Anonymous kank with wings]

Also, yes, I'm aware that on Zalanthas the sexes are evenly matched. Nevertheless, two swords are better than one in terms of defending your hatchlings. And one can be protecting the nest while the other is out gathering. Lots of reasons to support the family unit and even extended family clans all living together.

[Xygax]

Marriage does exist on Zalanthas.  It is typically only contractual in the case of merchant family members and nobility, but I don't think it would be unreasonable for a commoner in the situation you describe to call his significant other his "wife".  There just wouldn't be any meaning to it beyond whatever meaning they (he and his gal-pal :twisted:) assign to it.

-- X

[ale six]

Certainly monogamous relationships exist, and there are probably a variety of terms to describe them with, but I don't think normal peasants would refer to themselves as 'married'. That's something nobles do.

Commoners may form agreements that are similar, based on an exchange of
goods, favors, or more often affections. These unions are not recognized
by nor are they of interest to the templarate.

[mansa]

Help Marriage[/url]"]

Marriage     (General)

For the most part, only nobles and merchant houses use the formal term marriage for relationships. As such, marriage on Zalanthas has little to do with ritual and everything to do with gaining an advantage. A formalized contract sets forth the terms of an exchange. These contracts usually cover the number of children the union is required to produce, the house to whom these children will belong, and the exchange of goods or favors as part of the deal. These contracts are recorded by the templarate, and require the signatures of ranking members of each house, the signatures of the individuals who will enter into marriage and the signature of a templar. In Allanak this will usually be a templar from the city ministry.

Merchant houses also form formalized unions though these are not recognized as marriage contracts. The contracts are often identical to a marriage contract, they are also registered with city state, the difference is that because the parties involved are not noble, the union is not called a marriage.

Commoners may form agreements that are similar, based on an exchange of goods, favors, or more often affections. These unions are not recognized by nor are they of interest to the templarate.

In tribal communities, the taking of a mate may be marked by formal ceremony. In the city states this is less common.

It's pretty clear that the Zalanthas term for Marriage is different than the Real Life term.  It's one of those sticky situations that is confusing for the new players of the game, who associate Real Life to everything in the game.  In order to make myself more clear and less confusing to everybody, I never use 'marriage' in game, unless I'm nobility or a merchant family.  I always use 'mate' in reference to my significant other.

[MorganChaos]

I've heard husband and wife be used, but you should probably use mate, or another of Delirium's fine terms.

[John]

I've heard husband and wife be used, but you should probably use mate, or another of Delirium's fine terms.

Ditto (although partner sounds a bit too politically correct to me).

[Yang]

There are two items I know of that describe tribal forms of marriage or partnership, and there may be more. City commoners may have less direction, but in game alternatives do exist for the diligent researcher.

[Scarborough]

I like the terms mate and partner.

[Cuusardo]

I think that commoners who use the terms husband or wife could be construed as emulating nobles.  Commoners look up to them for the examples they set (such as fashion), so why wouldn't this be something similar?

On the other hand, commoners believe that nobility are better than them, so perhaps they feel that they aren't worthy of using the same terms.  I mean, the relationship between two commoners in a loving, sexual relationship that produces a family is vastly different than the relationship between two nobles who were basically given a contract by their families to sign saying that they're going to breed for both Houses (among other possible things.)  Personally, I believe that mate is a more appropriate term when it comes to commoners who make families in this case.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I strongly favor the term Mate for a common lifelong partner, unless Language nuances terms it something else.

Husband and Wife shall be reserved for official noble unions.

[Cale_Knight]

Yeah, I'm with the group that thinks "husband and wife" should be kept to contractual marriages - merchants and nobles.

Mate is a great term.

[Bebop]

I like the idea of little commoner events, ceremonies and rituals.  I woud like to see little unions, coming of age traditions and get togethers for commoners.

I don't think someone would call someone their husband/wife but I could see some taking the term mate much much more seriously then others.

[Intrepid]

That's a good point.  We're talking about two city-states whose societies, by and
large, have existed for over a millenium each.  Can you imagine, from a sociological
point of view, how practiced and traditional a relatively stagnant set of cultures like
Allanak and Tuluk could become in such a historical mire like that?

[tortall]

Wouldn't reffering to your significant other as mate make everyone feel more animal like? I mean, sure this is Zalanthas, but where does the line stop? No, maybe commoners shouldn't have a big marriage cermony like one of mine did... Thrown by a Fale if I remember correctly.... But husband and wife WOULD be used, it just wouldn't be as common as among nobles and merchents.


-Tortall, who thought her Arm wedding rocked.

[Cale_Knight]

Wouldn't reffering to your significant other as mate make everyone feel more animal like?

It's the other way around. We use the term "mate" for animals because scientists don't want to say "fuck buddy."

[Delirium]

Mate.. fuck buddy... same difference in Zalanthas.  One's just more polite.  

[Cale_Knight]

Exactly. :shock:

[MorganChaos]

What? No. I never saw mate as making people more like animals. Once you hear it in the Zalanthan context, you stop thinking of it as an animal thing, or that's how it worked for me. This is what I see happening.

Noble X: "What? Amos and Mina are calling each other husband and wife? Who do they think they are? Do they think they're as good as I am, to be married in the Sun/Sorceror-King's light/eyes/whatever? What has posessed them to call each other husband and wife, like they deserve marriage? Tuluk: Have them disappear. Allanak: Throw them in the Arena! Or maybe we should kill Amos in front of Mina after torturing them both, then leave her to rot in the Pit for a few decades..."

[Moofassa]

People need to learn how tuluki nobles work.


As for the mate thing. Mate is just fine. Fuck buddy, friend with benefits, my lifepartner, my female, my man, my sugardaddy/mommy.