Peek trouble

[Nosy Kank]

Has peek been changed in some way? I played here a while back, as a pick pocket, and even with a low skill, the chance for the target to notice peek was something like 10-20%.

I recently came back as a new pick pocket, and I'm seeing something along the lines of 40-50% of my peeks being noticed by the target, and I've often been noticed 2-3 times in a row (not on the same target, of course) and a few times as much as 4 and 5 in a row. It's hard enough with the steal nerf and the watch ability, but so far it has basically been impossible for me to even start training my steal skill.

Anyone with newly-created pick pockets who have had similar experiences?

[Vesperas]

Had the same trouble myself, only with my last 'stealth' PC, I found that out of ALL the attempts that I made with the skill failed (99% of the time with me getting caught... only succeeded in getting a fail-without-notice once)... it even failed on a mortally wounded NPC!!

Heh, while 'peek' shouldn't have been a major skill.. I do feel it sort of 'nerfed' the entire experience.

[SpyGuy]

There were some recent changes to steal that may have also applied to all other character types.  Also remember that the watch command is in game now so if your PC looks sneaky he might be watched, if you fail your sneak check entering a building he might be watched and if your target just feels like watching someone for the hell of it you might be watched.

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18229

[Original Poster]

Heh, while 'peek' shouldn't have been a major skill.. I do feel it sort of 'nerfed' the entire experience.

It is a major skill for a pick pocket. If you can't peek, you can't steal (unless from a person without a cloak and with weapons in their belt, and how common is that?) and not only is it hard to find anything to steal from when it's very close to impossible to peek, it's also a very easy way to get your PC known city-wide as a thief once a few people have noticed you peek (or a whole tavern, since others now have a chance to notice you peeking someone else).

One thing I think would be better was if someone noticing you peeking saw "Player looks at you" instead of "Player stares at your purse and wiggles his fingers" or whatever obvious message you do get.

[Agent_137]

I don't think it's that obvious. Just the twinks know it's a peak.

I think it's something along the lines of "Looks at you oddly."

[Delirium]

I like emoting the echo with non-thiefy characters, sometimes.

[Jakahri]

I like emoting the echo with non-thiefy characters, sometimes.

Isn't that somewhat akin to equiping newbie gear with a 30+ day warrior?

Not necessarily twinking, though definitely bad form.

Or you were joking.  :wink:

[Vesperas]

Hey, if my 30+ day warrior wants to walk around in newb eq, he can.  His choice.

He doesn't ASK people to think he's newb-PK material. XD

[Hymwen]

Sure you can, if you have an IC reason to wear chalton boots and a simple sandcloth shirt

On the topic, I played a thieving character some time ago, and it definitely didn't seem so bad back then. Don't know if they changed it, and I remember being annoyed at how poor peek was in the beginning, but I don't think I got noticed too often. Could it depend on a stat? Do you have poor in something?

[Cale_Knight]

It's probably a function of the new watch skill. Watch has a chance of working even if you aren't actively watching the other person.

As far as wearing newbie gear goes, I think that crosses the line, personally. You can wear shoddy clothing or crappy armor all you like, but specifically wearing newbie gear is basically asking folks to treat you like a newbie, and that's an OOC advantage.

[FightClub]

People should start the game naked, like the terminator!

[Delirium]

I like emoting the echo with non-thiefy characters, sometimes.

Isn't that somewhat akin to equiping newbie gear with a 30+ day warrior?

Nah.  The echo is one that makes a lot of sense to use in several situations.

I have never labeled anyone a thief from seeing it, though depending on the character and the situation, I might ask them what the heck they think they're looking at.

I'd be all for removing the peek fail echo to put as 'look' because quite frankly, the minor benefit it gives (lets you know someone was looking at you oddly) outweighs (to me) the major detriment- it screams "I'm a thief class and I have peek!" to anyone who decides to take that simple message and label your character forever.

If my character wants to look at someone in the same way the peek fail echos, then by Tek I'll emote just that, and be laughing to myself as the players behind various PCs suddenly try to figure out what class I -really- am.


Of course, this is coming from the girl who used to love using the 'consider' command on people her PC was about to tear the living shit out of.  Ah, consider command, how I miss thee.

Delirium eyes you morbidly.

[jhunter]

I'd be all for removing the peek fail echo to put as 'look' because quite frankly, the minor benefit it gives (lets you know someone was looking at you oddly) outweighs (to me) the major detriment- it screams "I'm a thief class and I have peek!" to anyone who decides to take that simple message and label your character forever.

I so agree with this.

[Kalden]

Seriously. Especially with the major nerfage that has seemingly been imposed upon pickpockets.

They were difficult before, but I bet they're gonna be nigh-impossible now. Use partners? Use distractions? Make sure you're unseen?

Much easier said than done.

[Bebop]

I noticed peek was harder too.  Usually it started out a lot easier.  Morgenes did say that stealing was going to be harder now so, there you go.  I'm surprised it is harder though because I never thought pickpocketing was easy to begin with.

[John]

Nah.  The echo is one that makes a lot of sense to use in several situations.

IMO deliberately emoting any coded echo is a bit "off." It isn't twinky, just not something I'd recommend people do.

[spawnloser]

As far as wearing newbie gear goes, I think that crosses the line, personally. You can wear shoddy clothing or crappy armor all you like, but specifically wearing newbie gear is basically asking folks to treat you like a newbie, and that's an OOC advantage.

...and you're saying that this is worse than the jackass that tries to take advantage of the 30+ day warrior wearing noob gear because they are trying to monopolize on OOC info as well?

[Larrath]

As far as wearing newbie gear goes, I think that crosses the line, personally. You can wear shoddy clothing or crappy armor all you like, but specifically wearing newbie gear is basically asking folks to treat you like a newbie, and that's an OOC advantage.

...and you're saying that this is worse than the jackass that tries to take advantage of the 30+ day warrior wearing noob gear because they are trying to monopolize on OOC info as well?

I think he refers to how many people would let newbies slide with doing things they would execute experienced players for.  Trying to steal from a templar, or being found with spice, or trying to gather information on magick or hanging around inside the Templar's Quarter, and so on and so forth.

That's at least how I see it, and I agree with that - people should not take advantage of the slack newer players are given.  That slack is needed in order to help new players learn the game, and abusing the slack lessens the slack, making the game that much harder for newbies.

[moab]

I 30 day warrior should be able to wear whatever he wants as long as he has IC reason to do so - that includes "newbie" gear.

The problem, really in this instance, is in having "newbie" gear at all.

What should be done is after you point at the map in the Hall of Kings, you should be taken to a room with specific clothing options for a person starting in your city.  This clothing should be regular clothing available in the stores, and you select a few pieces (paying for them or not, whatever) to wear.  Limit to one item of each available.

Now there is no "newbie" uniform.

This "taking advantage of the newbie image" thing I think is also blown out of proportion.  So what if someone "gets away" with something?  What's the loss?  We all die in the end anyway, so just let it go.

If we didn't look at it as being taken advantage of, there would be no problem.

Additionally, if you are giving a newbie so much slack that an older player might gain something of real value, perhaps you are giving the newbie too much slack?

[cyberpatrol_735]

Peek emotes!