Tracking Code

[drunkendwarf]

Does it seem to anyone else that the tracking code for animals is a bit...off?
I have an animal tracking me down, so I flee into Tuluk...cut THROUGH the city and out the east gates. I sit out in the plains for an entire night, and half a day...then circle around to the south of Tuluk and move west. Well, after a day and a half, and having moved through an entire city...somehow this animal manages to pick up my trail right where it left off??

Would there be a way for animals to actually have to use the skill 'hunt' and find REAL tracks to follow? This, to me...was incredibly and thoroughly unrealistic...there's no possible way an animal could do that. Not to mention it passed by several other animals it could have sunk it's teeth into, to track my scrawny butt down. As it is now, it seems to be the animal simply follows a direct line to you, regardless of whether or not you actually left any tracks in the room it's currently tracking through. Doesn't quite seem right to me.

Maybe shorten the time limit something tracks as well? This was well over a rl hour, and this thing is still following my trail? I don't know...anyone have any suggestions? Comments? I just think the tracking code as it is, is WAY off.

On a side note...I guess I've never tested this, but getting rid of something tracking you down as potential prey really should be as easy as tossing a few tasty chunks of meat into your path. Problem solved, everyone's happy. I guess maybe that might make things a bit too easy...but it's very realistic, so long as you toss down enough meat to fill it's belly.

[Rindan]

I am fairly certain that what you described did not happen.  Yes, some animals will track you to the ends of the earth.  That said, I am fairly certain that the animal follows where you have been and not where you are.  In other words, it follows the path you use to get to you.  It is pretty safe to say that no aggressive animal made its way through Tuluk, around the city, and back to get you, if for no other reason then that the gate guards would have killed it.

I have a feeling what really happened is that another identical looking NPC of the same type started chasing you after you lost the first one.

[drunkendwarf]

No, it didn't chase me THROUGH Tuluk...the gates were shut on it.
What it did was...somehow pick up my trail after I went through Tuluk, waited a day and a half, and circled around to the south. It followed a completely non-existant trail through the scrubs south of Tuluk to find me, and a significant distance as well, to rule out anything like smell. We're talking 20+ rooms away from the gates, it shows up tracking away. I can say with  absolute knowledge that an animal doesn't follow where you've been...it moves towards where you are. To follow the path I made to get to me, that tembo would have  had to move all the way through Tuluk, through the grasses, and circle back west into the scrubs, which as I said, it obviously couldn't have done. It followed a path I never made at all instead, tracking me through rooms I never set foot in.
My trail went from the north road, through Tuluk, and out into the grasses, circling around back into the scrubs. So how exactly did this tembo track me from the shut gates, straight south into the scrubs a day and a half later? Somethin' ain't right.

[forest imp]

My guess would be that it may have been tracking someone else.  Someone who noticed you resting out in the scrubs and used you to lose his pursuer, the tembo.

[drunkendwarf]

No, it was most certainly tracking me. I spotted it two rooms away...moved away from it, and it kept coming towards me, tracking mind you, not the aggro code. I'd get out of sight of it, and then see it pop up suddenly, following my tracks. It tracked me about 10 rooms after I spotted it...coming straight for me.

[Jherlen]

I don't see much wrong with this.

It's unlikely the tembo was moving around the city to chase you for a whole two hours. If you left it outside the gate, likely some other poor guy trying to get into Tuluk ran across it and then fled toward the scrub.

No matter how it got there, it probably remembered your tasty smell when it saw you in the scrub and decided to hunt you again.

I think this is a good example of why beasties should be treated as intelligent predators to be feared and not as npc mobiles who can react predictably based on coded responses. ICly, all that happened is your character ran from the tembo, saw the same tembo later, and it still wanted to eat you. No matter who it was hunting or how it got there, the situation as viewed from IC terms is fine.

On a side note, yeah, throwing raw meat towards some predators to get them off your back might be a neat addition. I can see tembo and raptors and beetles settling for something like that. On the other hand, you shouldn't be able to get a silt horror or a bahamet or a mek off your back by throwing steaks at it. Their stomachs are too big to care.

[drunkendwarf]

No matter how it got there, it probably remembered your tasty smell when it saw you in the scrub and decided to hunt you again.

I think this is a good example of why beasties should be treated as intelligent predators to be feared and not as npc mobiles who can react predictably based on coded responses. ICly, all that happened is your character ran from the tembo, saw the same tembo later, and it still wanted to eat you. No matter who it was hunting or how it got there, the situation as viewed from IC terms is fine.

You know...this simple statement actually might have changed my mind on the whole rant I was going on there. You're entirely right...codewise I knew how that tembo got there...RP wise, my char had no idea. Thanks for showing me the light on that one. I was just trying to argue the tracking code isn't very realistic...but then you step in and say 'Who care's'....and  you know, I think I agree. It sure made for an interesting time, and it does make things more dangerous.
Still, it would be cool to be able to lob a few pieces of raw meat in your path to get that gortok/tembo/etc off your back. A met/mek/horror? Well, I think you'd have to lob poor Bob at it...and his kank. I agree a steak or two would only slow it down for a few seconds.
I'd think it'd be funny to see some raw meat become a vital tool for outdoor survival, for those of us not nearly beefy enough to take down a tembo.

[Agent_137]

i'm game for the raw meat idea.

and at times the tracking system is somewhat realistic and gives unfair advantages to the predators, but it also gives some unfair disadvantages.

And sometimes in this game you have to realize it's also a simulation and can never be wholly perfect.

[amoeba]

Still, it would be cool to be able to lob a few pieces of raw meat in your path to get that gortok/tembo/etc off your back. A met/mek/horror? Well, I think you'd have to lob poor Bob at it...and his kank. I agree a steak or two would only slow it down for a few seconds.
I'd think it'd be funny to see some raw meat become a vital tool for outdoor survival, for those of us not nearly beefy enough to take down a tembo.

Actually if you think about it. Lobing raw meat at an intellegent predetor would be a -bad- idea.  Now he views you as a -source- of meat.

btw, even someone with no skills at combat could defeat, even kill a predator if you are smart enough to trick it. Been there, it was a lot of fun.

[Dalmeth]

Actually, lobbing meat at a bahamet would probably work better than lobbing meat at a raptor, as the files say it's eating habits are that of an oppurtunistic scavenger.  Though, oppurtunities for a bahamet are about as numerous as the players themselves.  

If we decide who gets distracted by a hunk of meat by it's eating habits, then tembo, bahamets, and maybe gortoks would fit the bill.


Though, I don't think we need to ease up hunting in Tuluk.  If you have some sense and keep your fingers ready to enter "flee," you'll do fine.

[Cenghiz]

And... if it was totally realistic, you could be crimflagged for bringing a nasty creature to the city.

The big, burly soldier says to his friend: "Whom brought this here? That old dwarf?"
His friend replies: "Don't you remember that young hunter covered in blood? I guess we gotta report eh?"
The soldier leans against the wall: "No.. You report it.. I'm comfortable here.."

You should be thankful that the gate guards are too lazy, but one of them could recognize the blood-covered hunter of yours and report to a templar.

And back to the topic; As said, I see creature hunt as sniffing. Not kneeling and looking for tracks even though it does so in the coded echo. They're sometimes somewhat determined, that's all. I had a NPC once who has tracked me through -without exaggaration- 200 or so rooms. And that included an accidental fall, too. Think of it: You fall, groan a bit and thank to the spirits that it was a short fall, you start emoting wrapping a cut, about an IC hour passes as you finish binding all your wounds, then XXX falls from above.  :lol:
Just curse to the determined creature and start running.

[Kalden]

And... if it was totally realistic, you could be crimflagged for bringing a nasty creature to the city.

That's not realistic. What's really realistic is the creature either running you down or giving up chase before the walls.

Realistically, creatures don't approach civilization for a reason. That's why we don't have random mekillots attacking the city gates. One (or even a thousand) piece(s) of bait isn't enough to attract them to their doom.

Glad I could clear up this LONG-running misconception. You're welcome.

[Cenghiz]

RL wolves, jakhals, monkeys, bears and nearly always foxes come close to the villages and other human settlements.
Trust me I once had a chance to see wolves wandering _way_ too close to a farming city I was in.

[X-D]

I am fairly certain that what you described did not happen. Yes, some animals will track you to the ends of the earth. That said, I am fairly certain that the animal follows where you have been and not where you are. In other words, it follows the path you use to get to you. It is pretty safe to say that no aggressive animal made its way through Tuluk, around the city, and back to get you, if for no other reason then that the gate guards would have killed it.

No, I've done EXTENSIVE testing on npc tracking, and, have proven that though they have the tracking echo, they do -not- track, they KNOW where you are.

Using some very advanced rangers I've watched a tembo track my char, when the tembo was two rooms away I'd hide, then the tembo would track over and over for hours RT if I stayed hidden, but would not move.

Then I moved to a spot (not gonna say where) but a spot I could close the door behind me, coming in from the east, then a little while later the tembo would arrive from the west, Though it could not get to my char and my char was never in that direction at all, plus the tembo had to go quite a few rooms out of the way to get to that spot.  

I've done it many times with many different tracking npc's and bugged it many times, and the results are always the same.

Yes, without a doubt, NPC's track where you are, not where you have been.

[amoeba]

I'll have to go along with what X-D said.  I've been suprised many times by the tracking code.  I'll have to say I love the NPC tracking code, wish I could say why, but damn those critters are smart.

[Xygax]

This is something I hope to fix Real Soon Now.  There are a lot of kludges in the NPC AI that bother me a lot.  We have enough CPU muscle now to be able to spend a bit more time than we currently do on more realistic and smarter AI, and it's definitely on my list.  Especially grouping/flocking for various critters.

A lot of things are too fast or too perfect (NPC soldiers are certainly one of those), and in general these differences compensate for an otherwise very shallow set of AI options.  Hopefully, we can make your AI encounters seem more realistic and overall achieve more dangerous behaviors

-- X

[Dalmeth]

Just fix NPC group attacks and I'll be just chipper.  My first character almost died when a group of three gortoks jumped out onto the road and two attacked instantly.

[adrien]

I like when an animal hunts me, I don't know why but I like the thrill of a cat and mouse game. I also like tracking my pray

[Tarx]

I'd have to say I wasn't even quite aware how complex the game's NPC tracking code was until I experienced it first-hand.  I could have sworn that an imm was animating the NPC--it was unpredictable for me.  It takes some getting-used-to in order to adapt to a game that is both RP intensive and contains immersive code that does things like that.