PC's & nPC's - Why should I care?

[WarriorPoet]

So, it's been discussed a thousand times before, and I figured I'd bring it up once more. We all know that players are supposed to treat PC's and NPC's the same. We know the difference, as players, but our characters do not. That's fair.

But, I don't have time to glance at every NPC I run into. That's just because of RL time restrictions. I have a 4 month old daughter, and sometimes I've only got twenty minutes to log on and try to catch that merchant, or get a spar, or have an ale with a buddy. I have to get shit done if I want to do anything of note InGame, because if I dick around emoting to the sixteen NPC's on the route from my clan HQ to the tavern, I'll have little time to actually hang out in the tavern, or do whatever I need to do.

Now, in the mutant thread, Cuusardo complains that PC mutants are treated different than NPC mutants. I agree there, but I don't think this is a problem at all. Why should the player of that Templar waste his/her valuable roleplaying time heckling an NPC that they see every day? I think we can all agree that while it might be amusing at first, it would get old very quickly. After all, you could rip into that NPC every time you passed, and it wouldn't change the fact that it is an NPC. While there might be a helpful Immortal to jump in and raise that NPC's hood, after the next crash/reboot, that hood is going to be down again, wether you like it or not.

So, I guess my question is this: Where is the line? I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not here to solo RP constantly. I'm here for the interaction with other people. I roleplay with NPC's and vNPC's to pass the time until a real person arrives.

Treating PC's and NPC's is all well and good in certain situations, but where does it end? The thief who repeatedly steals from the same, mindless NPC is one thing, but the Templar with a hatred for mutants harassing the same mutant five thousand times a day because that NPC mutant happens to sit outside the Templar's favorite tavern is quite another. Where do we stop and say to ourselves 'This is stupid' and blow past that NPC because, well, harassing it one more time would simply be a waste of time?

[Anonymous]

I don't know, I think it is at the player's discretion.

I'm not involved in Cuusardo's thread, but here's my take on it as an example.

Pretending for a moment I'm a templar player and decide I'm going to hassle players by telling them to cover up.  First thought I have is that it's no big deal so nobody should get angry.  The second thought I have is 'no way I'm going to mail the mud asking them to put veils on every mutant in Tuluk because my PC is going around harrassing them' as I'd feel like an ass.

On the flip side, if I'm playing a templar in the south and emote falling on my face in the Barrel and a PC smirks I think it would be cooler to unleash your wrath on a VNPC than using your laser-smirk finding templar vision to target that one PC.

Someone once said 'let the VNPC an NPC templars handle the VNPC and NPC criminals.'  In general I think that's a decent way to go around it.  Bad things happen to PCs and it sucks for the players at that time but there are times where I think we all need to accept that roleplaying with PCs is more important than roleplaying with figments of your imagination.

[WarriorPoet]

Bad things happen to PCs and it sucks for the players at that time but there are times where I think we all need to accept that roleplaying with PCs is more important than roleplaying with figments of your imagination.

This was the jist of what I was trying to say in the initial post.

[Agent_137]

It's a balancing act, CRW gives great examples of the two sides.

Can you imagine if every Bynner had to salute every NPC sergeant?

But at the same time, you can't have people ignoring NPCs like they don't exist.

Balance.

I don't really like

let the VNPC an NPC templars handle the VNPC and NPC criminals.

because it seems too hard and fast. And this issue is about more about balance and context.

[sarahjc]

I think Npc's and Vnpc's are there as color to the game, and are useful for solo Rp, but Npc's can't interact back, unless your PC has control over them. Ie: Guards and Certain Clan NPC's. So unless it is necessary and/or imm animated, I don't think NPC's should be interacted with.  I would prefer VNPC's over NPC's as far as interaction goes. Because then you are creating a persona for the VNPC and not using an existing Character that you know nothing about.

The example that Cuusardo gave is a good one. You have a PC mutant and a NPC mutant walking around. The NPC is more "offensive" looking, but the PC is the one that gets told to cover up.  IMO there is nothing wrong with this, nor should it be an issue. I as a Templar PC can tell another PC to do something and the PC will respond. I cannot expect the NPC to respond, so RP'ing such a situation out with them, to me becomes a moot point. It would be like RP'ing with a link dead PC. It's not really fair to punish the NPC, when it can't respond.

The only time I would RP with an NPC is if I do not need a response except those coded, like those of NPC merchants and Bar Keeps or with an Imm animation. Stealing from or killing an NPC are also acceptable because they are coded to respond to these things. They have cerrtain responses built in to deal with those actions. Things that require a roleplayed response from the NPC like having it arrested, offering to sell it some beads when it's not a merchant, or starting up a conversation with it at a table don't make sense to me, and in my opinion, except under special circumstances should be avoided.  

In short, NPC interaction is just not something that I think the player base should feel a responsibility to.

[jhunter]

I think that it comes down to this:


Never forget about npcs, virtual or otherwise they are just as much a part of the "world" as the player controlled ones.

When you have a choice between interaction with npcs or pcs, choose the player controlled ones because it will create more enjoyment for the RL beings behind them and yourself.

Even if it's in a negative fashion toward the pcs, just remember that sometimes you have to cut some slack and disregard things that are OOC knowledge for the enjoyment and suspension of disbelief for other living entities behind some of the characters in the world.

Not sure if I'm getting my point across...just saying my opinion of it in probably not as clear of way as I could if I put more thought into it.

[Fnord]

Couple things I've done...

1) Read the room description for the number of VNPCs. Many rooms have some info on what's there virtually. If it's a lot, like the Gaj, I might throw in more RP with them than a room in the desert.

2) Pick an NPC or two to develop a relationship with. They can be at your favorite bar, or your clan's home, or wherever you'd have a good reason based on your character. When inclined, do a little RP with them.

Example: Let's say you're a Bynner. You decide you and a certain NPC sergeant have gone on virtual desert training together. Maybe you then salute that NPC when you pass, and occasionally talk to them about the adventure.

Hope that helps someone...

[Anonymous]

Congrats if you manage to still play with a 4 month old child - I had to take a long break at that point. But then, I also have been rather unable to play short 20 minute sessions - someone please tell me the secret of how  to log out when it's time in RL

NPC interaction comes in several ways, I think. From the time-consuming 'intensive' interaction that can entertain a solo-rp'er for hours and days to the simple awareness and consistency of action within the given environment -  npcs and vnpcs included -that doesn't necessarily target any of those specifically, but remains consistent and gives a feeling of 'awareness' of the place to everyone around.

[WarriorPoet]

As for intensive roleplaying with an NPC, that is all well and good if you are utterly alone. But, if there are twelve PC's in the bar, all of whom are ripe for harassing, I think they should get preference over the NPC's.

As was posted in the mutant thread, I don't think the 'treat NPC's the same as PC's' rule was put in for the sake of making us roleplay with NPC's as much as PC's, but to ensure that you didn't go around spam stealing from that guy in the bazaar, wander around the 'rinth killing things to max your skillz, or spam 'e;get all corpse;e;e;e' to avoid the RP.

NPC's should get treated more or less the same in situations like that, but if I have the choice of terrorizing that mutant PC with the horn, or heckling that NPC mutant with the arms growing out of his head(whom I see every day), I'll definately pick the PC, simply because that's what I'm here to do.

Am I wrong here? Sure, that NPC might be doing something far worse than this PC, but interaction is assured with the PC.

*shrugs* Not really going anywhere, I guess. Just idle musing. *checks watch* Damnit, 6 hours to go....

[Cuusardo]

So, we are expected to treat PCs and NPCs the same when it comes to skill-based things, but if it's non-skill based roleplay it doesn't matter?

[Malifaxis]

Dudes, lets just stay out of this one.

Yeah, lets just go play with trucks or something.

-The boys of South Park

[Xamminy]

Yes, NPCs don't interact back...but let's see, if it's perfectly acceptable for an NPC to do something, why is it not acceptable for a PC?

[WarriorPoet]

An NPC, regardless of how many times that Templar flips out on him, or hauls him off to the cells, or that thug steals from him, or kills him, is going to be back in his spot in a couple of days, oblivious. Again, it might be fun the first few times you do it, but after awhile... Are you going to keep on with it, or just skip it?

I think it's an issue of playability vs realism. Realistically, that shady elf or grubby rinther NPC would be dead or rotting in a cell somewhere, but codewise, he's back in business and short of an Immortal deleting a perfectly good NPC, he's gonna stay there.

Do I really want to spend twenty minutes of my half-hour of RP time talking to NPC's, when it doesn't change anything about the world around me except add a little atmosphere, or would I rather skip that NPC on the road so I can get to the PC in the tavern, and add atmosphere that someone else can se? Easy.

EDIT: I meant for this topic to go a different direction, but it's pretty much the exact same arguments as the mutant thread in the Roleplaying forum. If a staffer thinks it's just repeating the same thing in two places, we could get a lock here...

[Xamminy]

The point I'm trying to make, I made in the other thread...

[proxie]

Well, one thing maybe...

The PC was in a bar, yes? The hideously deformed NPC might not frequent bars, and so wouldn't come under the public eye.

Now... something cool I wouldn't mind seeing from time to time is NPC's beyond patrolling guards and templars going places.

JoeNPC ends his day going from the bazaar to the bar, where he orders a drink, flirts with the wenches, gets roudy and irritating, and then is shown the door. Next day at late afternoon he does it again. Or maybe just a chance that he'll start his wander_to_bar program.  

Or a BynNPC that patrolls the bazaar and then the bars looking for errant recruits who are supposed to be cleaning the latrines, finds a vnpc who's trying desperately to hide and drags him back by his ears. Then, entering the gates, could be noticed by the pc's there as the naughty recruit is tossed face first into the latrine pits.

Basically elaborate flavor text. NPC's with purpose. Probably more work than they'd be worth, but still could be fun to watch.

And... if one of those mutant NPC's wandered to a bar and it wasn't the 'right' one, then they would be up for harassment by PC and NPC templars.

--Proxie

[Larrath]

Will this NPC be able to react, though?  Let's say that it's an urchin, and some Joe Templar goes there and tells him to go get him a drink.
Will this urchin be able to respond?

Anything less than a full responsive human will end up as a cutesy NPC AI script that's very useful for OOCish antics.

Sorry to kill the idea like that, but the only thing that could work in this case is if some staff member would randomly pop into random NPCs and move them around...and even that will probably be filled with inconsistencies (or it will become such a well-documented dinosaur after two months that just making them move will become too daunting for anyone to try fixing).