Mugging

[halfhuman]

Hi, my names Bob and I'm a mug-aholic.  I spend most of my time playing the cloak and dagger/brute mugger type character.  I find that you can make pretty good money killing people and mostly NPC's.  But, I have to kill an NPC every time I want some sid or items from them.  I was thinking that it'd be a good idea to have a sort of mug command where you could make an "intimidate check" or something to see if they handed over sid or valueables.

I was thinking that it'd be cool to like:
mug <target>'s <item> or something.

So I could just say: hey that's a nice chochke so and so has and type:
mug Thor's Mjolnir  and try to intimidate Thor to give me his hammer, then he could either resist or surrender depending on how well my check went.

[/i]

[Armaddict]

It's more fun role-played out.

And yes, you -can- find people who will role-play it out.  The vast majority of the time, you'll end up in combat, or with someone who will pull an emote/run sorta thing, but the times that it works makes it worth it.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Killing an NPC is basically the same as killing a link-dead PC.  I really don't think you should be making a career out of it.

[gofmk]

Killing an NPC is basically the same as killing a link-dead PC.  I really don't think you should be making a career out of it.

But, but, but!! NPC's try to kill me all the time! (I know what you're saying.. non-aggro) :wink:

[jmordetsky]

This is a good idea. (I think killing NPC's is a fine way to make a living if it's in char for you... You could make a living out of mugging VNPC's but then you would starve.)

Anyway....This ties into the "threaten" command, which has been discussed at great lengths and most of us (I think) would wet ourselves for.

That said, I think it would be great if NPC's had some AI which reacted to threaten.... Some aggro, some flee, some could emote and hand over sids.

>threaten elf (emote)
An elf gets really mad!
You miss an elf.
An elf brutally slashes your head

>threaten scrawny (emote)
You are now wanted in Allanak.
Whimpering a scrawny kid says to you in sirihish: "Oh no! Don't hurt me you big meany!"
A scrawny kid gives you a bone necklace.

I'm in favour of giving more intelligence to NPC's where ever possible.

EDITED FOR FULLNESS OF BODY

[Angela Christine]

You can use the SAP skill to mug without killing.


AC

[halfhuman]

What jmordetsky said is exactly what I'm talking about. I've played out PC muggings. (unfortunately the PC I was trying to mug was a twink and was very nice to me, even though I had a sword to her throat and ended up walking off. Unfortunately for her she was walking into the rinth.  :twisted: )  And I would just as soon mug a PC as I would an NPC, provided that I believed I could take the PC.  You don't mug by killing your opponent, or by sapping them unconcious.  I just want to take an NPC's shit without having to find some IC reason to kill him/her, because there really isn't an IC reason.  

I think it should work kind of like taking things out of a container. Examples:

tell NPC This is my street.  You can't come through here without payin' me 50 sid.
mug Ron 50 coins
You attempt to intimidate Ron Jeremy.
Ron Jeremy gets angry.
Ron Jeremy lands a brutal slash with his wang to your body.
Ron Jeremy lunges at you with his wang, barely grazing your inner thigh.

Or:

tell Richard Simons "That's a nice pearl necklace you've got there.  I wish I had one like it."
mug Richard necklace
You attempt to intimidate Richard Simons.
Richard Simons says to you "Please don't hurt me. I'm just a little girl at heart."
Richard Simons gives you a pearl necklace.

I think it'd be quite awesome to have a syntex like this.  Then I don't have to flat out kill everyone that I mug and I don't have to only find PC's for a quality RPed mugging.  It, of coarse, would get you wanted, so there's not much of a fear of over use. I think that the imms. should program it in and giver 'er a try.

[Dracul]

Nah dude. I dont like it.

Threaten though...from another topic. As a stasis like attack. Threaten....cant flee...etc...until someone types kill. That way...you get all the benefits off typing first...yet...rp too.

[Another Mugger...]

Uh... A skill? Not a skill but, a code checking the strengths of your weapons and acting accordingly, maybe. (including shouting so the NPC's in the area become agreessive against you just like when it happens after they fight you)
To the mugging concept... I have perfect coded means of mugging, still folks try to -  :twisted: try to - twink.. Mostly you find out that they move 20 leagues away as you try to emote.
Thanks to the few folks who RPed out the scene perfectly. I tried to be least damaging by stealing little and only what I need IC.
To the twink I met today.. You see, you teased me enough after 20-30 rooms of escaping and several attempts to RP the scene but as we both understood, I can type as fast as you do if I stop emoting. I'm still wondering how I could resist the urge to type 'hit <bla>'..
To the newbie I caught.. I didn't specially aim you.. After I started the mugging process I understood you were new to the game so I just emoted looong and loong till you woke up and got away so I could RP a failed attempt of mugging.. Let's make sure that it was not OOC hatred if it happens again.. It's just my character hurting your character, not me hurting you. Welcome to Armageddon.

[Marc]

It's called mercy.

Mercy on!

[Kankman]

I just want to take an NPC's shit without having to find some IC reason to kill him/her, because there really isn't an IC reason.  

That is not a good attitude for playing this game. Or did  misunderstand your  message?[/i]

[Agent_137]

I just want to take an NPC's shit without having to find some IC reason to kill him/her, because there really isn't an IC reason.  

That is not a good attitude for playing this game. Or did  misunderstand your  message?[/i]

I THINK:

He's saying that he wants a way to mug them without having to kill them (which thus requires a reason).

Not that he wants to kill them and take their shit without a reason.

And the answer provided is above, mercy on. Not perfect, but a good solution that works NOW.

[jmordetsky]

It's called mercy.

Mercy on!

Mercy/Sap sucks. I still need knock them out and leave them half dead and bleeding just of the pleasure of then saying "steal coins sleepingguy". It kills any shot at RP with PCs, and is annoying to do for NPCs.

Don't get me wrong it works, but there is value in the threaten command, and making NPC have a coded reaction the command would be cool.

[Armaddict]

You're insane if you don't see how a command like this could get incredibly out of hand.

[Trenidor]

Ya know...I'm sure there are plenty of professional arm players who would love to be mugged.

Such as myself.

I'd like someone to come up to me: This is a stick up, gimme all your money or I'll slit your throat.
A stick up?
Ya..ya gimme your money...don't confuse me this is my first time.

Alright, but don't hurt me, I'm poor.

Oh in that case I'll let you off with a warning sir...next time don't act so rich or you'll get mugged again.


---or---

The shadow comes up to the old lady.

Gimme your money lady and no one gets hurt.

Exactly. You get hurt if I don't.

the old lady begins whacking the shadow with her purse.
----
Just because bad Rpers can't take the heat of a true mugger doesn't mean you have to turn into a bad RPer as well and rely solely on code to do anything.

A good RPer will act out everything...being beat up to beating others up.

[jmordetsky]

You're insane if you don't see how a command like this could get incredibly out of hand.

Example? How is it any different then running around sapping people?

[jmordetsky]

A good RPer will act out everything...being beat up to beating others up.

Ah the age old Arm question...What should be coded and what should be RPed...To which I anwer, go play a MUSH and get back to me in a week.

- That said - Why code when you can RP? Because, sometimes the code enforces RP...

The idea of threaten would be to do away with random sappings which remove interaction and the infamous n00b walk away:

Me: Hey don't move or your dead.
A noob walks east.
me sighs.

[Synthesis]

1.  All this talk of mugging seems to be assuming that your character is actually capable of carrying out the threat, when in fact, 9 times out of 10, he or she is not capable of such a feat.  It takes a long time to develop the necessary skills to seriously jack someone, and for good reason.  Furthermore, in a world as harsh as Zalanthas, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone willing to hand over their precious, hard-earned 'sid just to escape the slight beating you might be able to hand out before they manage to run away.   Don't cry because you lack the skills to stop someone dead in their tracks and take their shit.  

2.  It makes absoloutely -no- sense to have a "mugging" skill. None. Zero.  Most of the advocates I've seen for it want it as a workaround to their lack of other skills that would make the mugging successful.  The others seem to want it as a way to basically 'forage' shit from NPCs, to which I say, "Bah!"

3.  For the original poster:  jacking 'rinthers for their stuff is a bad idea, all around.  I'll admit, I've taken advantage of the imbalances in the 'rinth in the past, so I know that it's possible to make a -lot- more 'sid solo-hunting aggro NPCs in the 'rinth than it is hunting critters in the grasslands, which is saying a lot.  However, just because something is possible doesn't make it right.  People who are in the 'rinth and have shit worth jacking are one of three types: 1) Idiots, few and far between; 2) Wimpy guys who work for badass muthafuckas or 3) Badass muthafuckas.  Furthermore I'll make a 10:1 bet that you're mugging elves primarily, and that opens up a whole new BARREL of worms.  When you kill an elf, you better pray to whatever deity you believe in that nobody saw you do it, because elves live long, rarely forget, and never forgive shit like that.  Sure, the VNPC uncles, cousins, brothers, sisters, mothers, nephews, nieces, grandmothers, grandfathers, fathers, aunts and in-laws of the elves you're murdering might not be around right now to gangbang your punk ass into the ground, but if you press the issue, I'm pretty sure none of the Immortals in charge of the 'rinth are above giving your character a severe beatdown to remind him just how shit works on the streets.  The reason folks on the east side have more loot is because everyone knows that jacking someone in broad daylight will start a fucking war.

4.  Carrying on with the mugging idea...if mugging were easy or even easier, it would happen with much more frequency.  Which means that ultimately, the game in certain parts of the world would devolve into a simple, boring, law-of-the-jungle, dog-eat-dog scenario where roleplay is essentially reduced to the level of a Dragonball-Z PK MUD.  If you could simply 'threaten' people to force them to give up their goods, then other people could simply 'threaten' you to give up -your- goods.  Repeat ad nauseum, and you have a disaster.

[sjanimal]

I agree with the original poster 100%.  Riding has coded support.  Brewing ale has coded support.  Renting a room at a hotel has coded support.

So why not have coded support for mugging?

Saying "ROleplay it out" is not a stock answer for everything.  There's tons of reasons why you would want to have a coded option as well.

[Cuusardo]

Mugging is a tad more complicated than riding and brewing, or renting a room.

[joyofdiscord]

A skill that attempts to measure and take into account factors like intimidation, scariness of weapon, and whatnot, really does not appeal to me, personally.  The code doesn't know what's going on in the characters' heads, and trying to have it take over that role seems way too hack n slash:

You brandish your obsidian axe threateningly at Victim.
Victim shudders and says, "Don't hurt me!"
Victim hands over his coins.


A mugging skill that attempts to simulate the simple action of grabbing something away from someone, now that might be something.  I peek someone, see something I like, and without any sneakiness at all, I thrust my greedy hand out and try to grab it.  With success or failure, the victim will instantly see who tried to steal from them, what they tried to steal, and the thief will be crimflagged.  Zalanthan purse-snatching, basically.

[Maybe42or54]

A mugger with maxxed mugs walks up to your 90+ day warrior.
the mugger says, looking scary, "Hand over your 'sid! I paid three large for this shit."
Your warrior is forced to bow down to this guy with a sharp stick?
I'd say no. Rp it out or don't do it.

[sjanimal]

Sorry that some of you cats are having trouble seeing how easy this would be.  It could work much like pick pocketing and backstabbing.


If you are the mugger, you type:

HIDE
<xx/xx/xx> you look around for someplace to hide yourself....
<xx/xx/xx>you find someplace to hide.

you wait a while.

then you see.

the short fat dwarf walks in the room from the west.  

then the mugger types

MUG SHORT

and he sees the text
<xx/xx/xx> You give the short fat dwarf a violent shove and demand his money.

the person playing the dwarf sees
<yy/yy/yy> A shadowy figure tries to mug you, type FIGHT to fight or type PAY to avoid conflict.

If the player with the dwarf types PAY, then he pays like 20 to 50 coins from his inventory depending on the skill, or one item at random.

IF the player with the dwarf types fight, then combat begins.  

If the player with the dwarf does nothing, then he defaults as pay after like 20 seconds.

If the mugger fails his hide check or gets caught with the scan skill, the victim learns his description.

REQUEST:  If your only problems with this idea are something minor or logistical, rest assured that this kind of shit gets ironed out during play testing.

[Tamarin]

Naw, I don't like this idea.  Especially considering the general hardiness of Zalanthan people, most citizens aren't going to worry about one guy with a blade.

[LBO]

Naw, I don't like this idea.  Especially considering the general hardiness of Zalanthan people, most citizens aren't going to worry about one guy with a blade.

Uh, I reckon the majority of people would worry plenty if the guy has a blade out and they don't. While they may be hardy that does not mean that they can actually fight. Hardiness and combat ability are two very different things. I don't like the threaten idea myself but to say that your average Zalathan is not going to be worried about somebody pointing a blade at them seems a bit much to me - some may not but I think a lot would be.

[aruna]

It could work much like pick pocketing and backstabbing.

Then be a pick pocket or an assassin...

1) I'm going to ignore the fact that some people probably want this solely so they can jack NPCs for easy money. To me, adding a skill with just NPCs in mind is simply ludicrous. The heart of Armageddon is roleplay.  Preferably with other roleplayers.  So if you really want to mug an NPC, wish up and have him animated.  

2) If you do want to mug a PC (or an animated NPC), I see no real benefit from a mugging skill, at all. With what you're proposing, one of three things will happen: either the person will pay, or fight, or run away. These outcomes are the same (but a hell of a lot more fun, with room for creativity) if you emote sneaking up to someone, holding a knife to their throat, and saying "Give me all your 'sid."

[Tamarin]

Naw, I don't like this idea.  Especially considering the general hardiness of Zalanthan people, most citizens aren't going to worry about one guy with a blade.

Uh, I reckon the majority of people would worry plenty if the guy has a blade out and they don't. While they may be hardy that does not mean that they can actually fight. Hardiness and combat ability are two very different things. I don't like the threaten idea myself but to say that your average Zalathan is not going to be worried about somebody pointing a blade at them seems a bit much to me - some may not but I think a lot would be.

That wasn't my point.  My point was that they aren't going to cower in fear and stick around to get mugged.  They are going to take off like a bat ouf of the hellpits, and there's nothing that this mugger can do except take a couple of swings.  If you want to get good at mugging people, practice subdue.

[Trenidor]

A good RPer will act out everything...being beat up to beating others up.

Ah the age old Arm question...What should be coded and what should be RPed...To which I anwer, go play a MUSH and get back to me in a week.

- That said - Why code when you can RP? Because, sometimes the code enforces RP...

The idea of threaten would be to do away with random sappings which remove interaction and the infamous n00b walk away:

Me: Hey don't move or your dead.
A noob walks east.
me sighs.

Yes yes, I get annoyed by it as well, but if you RP it, and you RP it well (have hide on, and when they walk past emote putting your knife around their throat) wish up and ask if it was real enough. If the imms agree then congrats you just taught someone a lesson, and you got a nice leisure suit from it.

There are alternatives however:

bash
emote holds ~knife up to %pushed-over-guy neck

say Move and you're dead.

-or-

Subdue guy

emote puts his knife up to %guy neck

as well as several other things.

but, the first one should work if you RP it up to the imm at hand's expectation.

[Delirium]

It is perfectly possible to mug someone code-wise with the proper combination of skills.

You want to be a mugger, take the guild and/or subguild that will give you what you need. I see no need for some 'threaten' code to do all the thinking and hard work for you.

[SRB]

Sap is heavily underrated. I suggest you people try it out before pushing any other ideas.

[LBO]

That wasn't my point.  My point was that they aren't going to cower in fear and stick around to get mugged.  They are going to take off like a bat ouf of the hellpits, and there's nothing that this mugger can do except take a couple of swings.  If you want to get good at mugging people, practice subdue.

Why wouldn't your average citizen cower a little if suddenly confronted by somebody holding two swords? PCs don't because they know that they can take a single "grevious wound to the neck" but still be able to run away codedly like there's nothing wrong with them. Think you could run far if in real life if somebody stuck you in the neck and back with a knife? Would you chance letting somebody who is holding two swords having a couple of swings at you or give him your money? Some of the population who have trained in weapons may well be fine with handling themselves and know how to extract themselves from a sticky situation but a lot wouldn't.

I suppose its a result of the code in place that is influencing people's decisions. There's no real damage taken from a grevious wound that won't go away after a short while. There's no blood loss code which would mean that a couple of quick strikes in critical locations could possibly leave you bleeding so badly that you would not able to run far from your mugger without collapsing. If these were in place would you think a little differently about running away?

Without these in place the best I can think of is to work in a team. One to subdue and the other to rap them on the noggin soundly. Of course then we'll have the complaints of the auto-subduing muggers / raiders. You just can't win  :wink:

[Bestatte]

Ugh, this whole "mug" idea is kinda icky. I hate the whole coded permissions thing.

The raider wants to kill you. [Type ACCEPT DEATH to allow, NO to refuse.]

The f-me PC guy wants to make hot sweaty monkey love with you. [Type MUDSEX YEAH to allow, NO to refuse.]

The thief wants to steal from you. [Type OPEN POCKET to accept, NO to refuse.]

Blech blech and more blech. Might as well make it a first-person shooter.

[Tamarin]

Blech blech and more blech. Might as well make it a first-person shooter.

load shell bfg
etwo bfg
shoot bestatte

:twisted:

[halfhuman]

I didn't suggest any permissions thing when I first talked about the mug command.  I didn't suggest that it works on PC's either. (Well, maybe twinks ) If I see a PC that looks week enough for me to mug, I RP it. I've done it before.   I only suggested it because, as a mugger, I had to beat the living shit out of NPC's just to mug them.   I'll admit that it could be used alot by twinks, but lets face it, so could steal.

Reading these posts has given me a few ideas for a potential mugging.  There's still the matter that using Mug would get you wanted by the authorities, which always ends the same way:  with a super-fast Allanak soldier attacking you seven times, before you even notice that he's on the screen, then you seeing the kank at the end of the tunnel.  That could cut down on the whole over use issue right there.

[sjanimal]

*bump*

[Tamarin]

Yeah...bump...I don't like this idea.  Use what's already available.  If you can't do it as it is, you are either not smart enough, you don't have enough people, or you just haven't tried all that hard.

[halfhuman]

heh... heh... that was kinda an IC info thing, wasn't it?    :oops:    Woops.

Anyways, just a thought of mine... I can see, now that I've got different points of view, that it really isn't one of my better ones.

[Tamarin]

It wasn't a great idea, but I'd say it wasn't a bad one either.  The thing that I think most people realise, but some don't, is that you can't break every tiny little skill that exists in real life into an actual coded skill, mugging for example, when the parts that make up the sum are already included in the game.

[Agent_137]

I kinda like the idea. Has a few tricky things like, "what if they just walk off?"

But then, they do that anyway...