Alrighty then, the war happened Tuluk won and Tuluk hate Allanak, i can see that and i can see why they hate people frol Allanak, now does that mean they hate anyone from the south? even if they are not from Allanak?

Say, Red Storm - who happen to hold an anti-Allanak attatude to begin with, would a Tulukian also hate the person from Red Storm?

Its somthing that has sat on my my for awhile so who is up for answering it?


Also, what does Tek look like? Please dont tell me to find out IC because i have and i got "This token as the face of Tek carved onto it" - so what Tek look like or how he shows himself to look like?....

I personally think how Tek claims to look like and what he really looks like are two different stories. I think Tek would probably show himself as without blemishes, no noticeable features, tall and muscular.

I'm just basing that on how nobles in real life have tended to be when it comes to portraying themselves and not for any IC reason

I personally think that Tek would be a very sick man, after all, he's been defiling for quite some time

I think it depends on the Tuluki character. One of my northerners was ambivelent, because she wasn't accustomed enough to seeing southerners, and her background had her family unaccustomed to seeing them, for her to really understand the significance as much as other people would.

Another character loathes even the notion that people from Allanak are breathing Tuluki air. She would be totally convinced that ALL people from Allanak are tainted by magicks, ALL people from Allanak are lying through their teeth, ALL people with southern accents are suspect, even if they insist they're from Red Storm. She'd be sure they're not, they're lying, they're trying to make nice with Northerners just so they can kill them when they least suspect it.

She would've gone so far as to assume that people wearing Red Storm clothing and gear went to Red Storm from that barbaric stinky Allanak JUST to buy that disguise, so they could pretend they're not from Allanak and infiltrate the north.

And then there are the characters who are inbetween the two. They might be inclined to believe someone who's from Red Storm. Maybe they've been to Red Storm themselves and recognize certain mannerisms or speech patterns from that region. A tribal human - a gypsy of one sort or another, might be viewed with only mild suspicion, but not as a possible Allanaki pretender - rather as a gypsy who's gonna try and scam you out of your sids (or your clothes).

So it depends on the character.

In my opinion, if you have been born and raised in the North, you hate Southerners unless something has happened to make you think otherwise.  Every single northern child has heard terrible stories of cruelty of Allanaki cruelty.  Every person has heard bards tales of terrible and horrific atrocities committed by the south, and time isn't going to make these tales sweeter.  If anything, they will become darker and more horrific as each bard retells the tale.  Tuluki, in my mind, are programmed to hate the south.  

Now, does this mean that any Southerner in Tuluk is going to get beaten and killed?  No, but they should have eyes in the back of their head, watch their back, and stay out of dark alleyways.  It is illegal to disrupt the southern folk in Tuluk without Templar permission, and I think this alone probably keeps the population from at bay and from lynching any southerner that steps into the gates.  The government has to worry about trade and so realize the necessity of southern people (especially from the merchant houses).  Commoners as a general rule probably know nothing of broad trade policy and so can be content to want all southerners to die without worry or fear of destroying the Tuluki economy.  Now, this does not mean that one's opinion can't change.  In fact, to be in a merchant house you really have no choice but to suck it up and deal with folks from the south.  I could see a Northern Kuraci, while uncomfortable around southern folks to begin with eventually adopting a very Kuraci opinion towards them, which is that so long as they do their work they are a-okay.  I just think that the people who would have a view of southerners as being anything other then violent murders and rapists would be minimal.

As to differentiating between an Allanaki and a Stormer, I think it depends upon how well traveled the Northerner is.  A person who has been to the area and been to Red Storm probably understand the difference and would treat a Stormer like he would treat someone from Luir's.  They would be a foreigner and so probably loose a few points, but they are not dropped down to the level of being an 'naki.  That said, I doubt many Tuluki would be able to draw this distinction.  To most Tuluki, a 'naki is a 'naki, and they all come from places SOUTH of Luir's.  If that dirty 'naki tries to tell you otherwise, they are lying.

QuoteTo most Tuluki, a 'naki is a 'naki, and they all come from places north of Luir's. If that dirty 'naki tries to tell you otherwise, they are lying.

SOUTH, south of luirs man....the rest is correct though.
:wink:

Quote from: "Rindan"Every single northern child has heard terrible stories of cruelty of Allanaki cruelty.  Every person has heard bards tales of terrible and horrific atrocities committed by the south, and time isn't going to make these tales sweeter.  If anything, they will become darker and more horrific as each bard retells the tale.  Tuluki, in my mind, are programmed to hate the south.  

Would you please give specific examples of these tales?  I've never heard one or have ever hear a rumor of one.  

I played in the north before and during the 'oppression' and honestly, I didn't see a single incident of cruelty.  I guess this is a little revisionist history and a bit of a rewrite?  

Maybe I missed something?  So, please, give examples.  These vague rumors of atrocities are great and all but I've never ever ever heard of them in game.  Not even the rumor of them.

I'd be more than happy to hear and spread them but first I wanna know what they are.

I'm with the Confused Northerner on this one.

There was never any open portrayal of oppression from the Allanaki occupation to the people of the Northlands during that time.  I played back then, and there were, in fact, many board posts insinuating that the general view of Allanak was changing.  Some months they actually liked their oppressors!  Others they swayed back to their former ways.  Many people back then were born under the occupation, and that's all they ever knew.  I never saw anything to suggest the average citizen of the occupied Northlands had any less rights than the citizens of New Tuluk today (except perhaps that the gates closed at night -- big whoop!)

QuoteWould you please give specific examples of these tales? I've never heard one or have ever hear a rumor of one.

I played in the north before and during the 'oppression' and honestly, I didn't see a single incident of cruelty. I guess this is a little revisionist history and a bit of a rewrite?

Maybe I missed something? So, please, give examples. These vague rumors of atrocities are great and all but I've never ever ever heard of them in game. Not even the rumor of them.

I'd be more than happy to hear and spread them but first I wanna know what they are.

Rindan's most likely not referring to specific things that PCs did. Not all soldiers a benevolent and secure in their power though. Some might beat the shit out of someone just for looking at them the wrong way. Another might have publically humiliated and degraded a noble. Whatever. They're VNPC stories that you can make up. Maybe they're true and maybe they're not. Even if all the Allanaki soldiers were benevolent, this situation was called the oppression.  Rumors could have been started among commoners. If the Allanaki people were kind and gentle, chances are that Tuluk wouldn't have fought them off.

I can recall several incidents, such as a Nakki noble killing one northern child per day until his own hostage child was released. My understanding has been that the occupation was not a peaceable or friendly one - the existence of the Rebellion speaks to that. I do not think that most Northerners, with family members killed in the initial war, in various skirmishes, or in the final battle that freed the region, would think of Southerners as masters they were happy to serve under.

Okay, here's one example you can use.

Those damn southerners brought up those Borsails here.  You know what those Borsails did?  They went around kidnapping people, that's what I heard.  Kidnapped children, they did, and some of those kids were never seen again.  A lot of families got mad over that, their kids just disappearing forever.  If I ever see one of those Borsails, or a southerner who put them into power...I'm not giving them the chance to take me.

I'm with Rindan.  Public opinion of southerners in the north would be very similar to what we feel about Nazis today.  No one likes Nazis, except for Nazis, and if you say you do then you're suspected of being a Nazi (or at least a national socialist).  If there wasn't oppression and misery, why was there a rebellion big enough to "free" the city?

I think it's more on education. Is a particular Tuluki educated enough to know the difference between a nakki and a stormer? Do they know that the two would have two very different beliefs? I think most Tuluki wouldn't (after all, what are the differences between the belief's of Germans and Norwegiens? Is there any difference? I know I dunno) know the difference, but those widely travelled most likely would.

I don't think he'd portray himself as sickly, death-ridden defiler. Perhaps a glorious, dragon-god-like statue of stoic grandeur. You wouldn't have to worry about things like skin, eye or hair color because its not a painting.

He'd probably have fairly lengthy hair, swept back out of the face, which bears a distinguished beard and mustache, strong masculine features like a solid and chiseled chin and a broad nose. Probably as round of eyes as possible to cast off any suspicions of elven heritage.

It would most likely not include clothing.

That's my view at least!

Quote from: "Jenred"I don't think he'd portray himself as sickly, death-ridden defiler. Perhaps a glorious, dragon-god-like statue of stoic grandeur.

Yep.  That's why Allanak was beseiged for so long, because it takes Tek a full year to do his makeup.

AC

If I could envision what Tek looks like..

He'd look like that Death guy with the scythe. This big ole cloak with the hood covering his head, and when you look under the hood, there's nothing there. Except maybe glowing red eyes, but that's only if they make a movie version of it.

If you watch the movie Stargate, the way they portrayed Ra was always how I personally imagined Tektolnes to be. I always thought Stargate was a really Zalanthas type of movie...only with, uh, marines.

If anything, I can't help but feel that Tuluk was less oppressive when Allanak was in power, because of the way Tuluk itself was designed at the time. It wasn't a city filled with NPC soldiers dotting the intersections of long roads, but more like a rural environment where soldiers were seldom to be seen, and citizens were left to govern their own behavior within the vast expanse of scrub and trees. The law was less likely to catch you doing anything criminal, and anything cool that ever happened turned up in the Sanctuary, where southern and northern people mingled alike, smoking spice and enjoying the atmopshere. There was a lot of trade and profit for northern and southern merchants, with market sales booming because of the conservative lack of conflict between city-states.  Was there discrimination against the northerners by the south, and vice versa? Maybe from a VNPC standpoint we can say there was a lot, but it sure wasn't reflected from a PC standpoint while in-game. In fact, when we take a look at how cruel and oppressive the southern militia have been to their own citizens of Allanak, I'd say that the militia were far, far kinder in their treatment of citizens up north.

Yeah, I remember at one point one of my greedy, non-political characters was more annoyed with the rebellion than the occupying forces.  The rebels (or people claiming to be rebels) made it unsafe to travel the road to luirs.  Rebels were blamed for leading large predators to the gates to kill 'naki soldiers, which they did, but then the predators continued on in through the local population.  The rebels made it harder for my merchant to get rich and realize her dream of owning her own wagon.

Many people are self-interested.  They will complain about taxes no matter who is in power, but are basically content if they can do their work and eat their dinners unmolested.  The "golden age" before the destruction of old Tuluk was just a fairy story to some young people, broken ruins once said to contain marvels and treasuers.  They are basically happy to colaborate with whoever is in power, if it makes their little lives run more smoothely.

By the same token, once the 'nakis were ousted and the northerners back firmly in power, these same aplolitical self-interested types would claim they had always supported The Sun King's forces.  Thier voices would be among the loudest decrying the crimes of the invaders, not because they hated the southerners when they were in power, but because it is the thing to do now.  You have to go along to get along.

AC