Quote from: "Nao"On a side note, altitudinous is prety ridiculous for people... That's a word used in geography, seriously. Another instance where someone showed they could use a thesaurus but didn't bother checking a bit further.

Okay everybody, I apologize.  Sometimes, since we can't use the real sdesc that was used in "the incident", being IC, we use made-up sdescs, and it's pretty common on this board to use ones that are kind of ridiculous and most-obviously not real.  It could have been "the snozzberry-haired bogeyman", and the point would not change.

QuotePlayability trumps normality in each, I say.

I don't think sdesc abuse is a playability issue, personally.  One very large part of what we "play" on Armageddon involves describing people.  Players inventing abilities like this out of nowhere renders this entire part of the game redundant.  People being too-easily identifiable is already destroying playability for chars like raiders.  With this sort of technique being acceptable, character identification is almost absolutely guaranteed.  Why is your playability more important than the guy's playability who's trying to blend into the crowd (something that's pretty easy in real life, where about 90% of people qualify as "hard to describe" as opposed to the 5% or so on Arm, who may or may not be abusing descriptions)?

Furthermore, if someone is hiding behind a hood all the time with deceptively-written descriptions (a kind of abuse I honestly haven't seen in years), then you don't have their sdesc to spread around anyway, and people aren't going to be able to identify them by that sdesc, so how is that relevant again?  Everyone will have to fish mdesc features, and probably follow up with "he wears a hood morning, noon, and night" and the guy will probably go down.

Desc consistency is also an OOC issue, so it really should not affect your character's IC decision of whether or not to use the holodeck.  Why is it all right to use this IC ability against an OOCly abusive char and not a normal char?  If it's an actual IC ability that your character can do, why doesn't he just do it every single time? On the other hand, if you're really dealing with someone with an abusive set of descs, shouldn't you mention it to the staff rather than using (what is, in my opinion) a counter-abuse?  If I'm dealing with some evil cheating magicker (the lithium-eyed coppertop Elkran) who I just happen to know uses a casting trigger, should I set up a "draw poisoned knife" trigger to level the playing field?

Quote from: "Vesperas"

When I say something is unrecallable... well, think of receiving a Way message like having a dream. In the short time that you are actually receiving it, you are experiencing flashes of vivid imagery and sound, but once the message has stopped (like waking up from the dream), the images fade, but the concept and sensation still remain.

Dreams don't fade for everyone. Some of us have the ability to dream in colours and retain clear memories of some pictures easily. On the other hand, I don't see why pictures can't be transferred through the Way (after all fantasy and magic shouldn't be explained using modern science). Following someone else's logic, even if the communication is done with feelings and words, the brain is capable of constructing an image based upon them instinctively. (with equal chances of getting it completely wrong) Although I don't employ it personally, I don't mind it when others use it.

I've always liked the idea that instead of talking through telepathy like talking on a telephone, the Way was more a jumble of thoughts. Images, colors, emotions and 'speech' all combining to paint a larger picture of the psionic message.

-WP

QuoteI've always liked the idea that instead of talking through telepathy like talking on a telephone, the Way was more a jumble of thoughts. Images, colors, emotions and 'speech' all combining to paint a larger picture of the psionic message.

Correct. If anything, people who simply speak words and sentences perfectly are the ones abusing it. Or benders

I wouldn't say abuse. I just assume that my character deciphered their psionic jumble into a proper thought.

-WP

duplicate post

Images?  Under normal circumstances, HELL NO.  I will not explain myself further so as not to reveal things I shouldn't, but I am violently opposed to anyone sending images via the Way.  I will make a player complaint every time someone does this.

Emotion or even sensation to some extent, and describing how the thoughts are coming through?  Okay.

> psi *thoughts weak and with a sensation of pain while anger permeates them* Oh, really now?This I can accept.
> psi *an image of the fugly, lanktastic man accompanying his thoughts* Get this feck and tear his head off!This I will not.

Of course, since the Way bypasses language barriers, it is not language in and of itself.  It would have to be something that comes from deeper in the brain than the speech centers.  However, doing more than raw communication with it?  Do you really believe that you could accurately describe someone that you'd seen ten minutes ago for a minute total?  Psychology has proven that you will more than likely NOT be able to do so.  Sending accurate sdescs is the equivalent of doing that...only with exact and photographic accuracy.  This is abuse in my mind, no less than just telling someone, "Hey, keep an eye out for that lanky, blond-tussled young man."

Quote from: "spawnloser"Images?  Under normal circumstances, HELL NO.  I will not explain myself further so as not to reveal things I shouldn't, but I am violently opposed to anyone sending images via the Way.  I will make a player complaint every time someone does this.

Emotion or even sensation to some extent, and describing how the thoughts are coming through?  Okay.

Code Select Expand

> psi *thoughts weak and with a sensation of pain while anger permeates them* Oh, really now?This I can accept.

Code Select Expand

> psi *an image of the fugly, lanktastic man accompanying his thoughts* Get this feck and tear his head off!This I will not.

Of course, since the Way bypasses language barriers, it is not language in and of itself.  It would have to be something that comes from deeper in the brain than the speech centers.  However, doing more than raw communication with it?  Do you really believe that you could accurately describe someone that you'd seen ten minutes ago for a minute total?  Psychology has proven that you will more than likely NOT be able to do so.  Sending accurate sdescs is the equivalent of doing that...only with exact and photographic accuracy.  This is abuse in my mind, no less than just telling someone, "Hey, keep an eye out for that lanky, blond-tussled young man."

Sure, but that's the same as giving someone's desc to others to make sure they go after the right person. I see absolutely nothing at all with:

psi *an image of a skinny human with long brown hair* Some stranger here...don't recognize the guy.

So long as "a skinny human with long brown hair" is not someone's exact sdesc. I think pure imagery with a sense of feeling is as raw as mental communication gets.

I love feelings and minor sensations through the way, and imagery as long as it doesn't go to far. I don't even mind details such as seeing through someones eyes.. or getting a glimpse of a location, I dislike the use of short descriptions completely though.

-Romantic feelings and sensations via the way (a gentle caress on your mind or something similar)
-Interpretation of the surrounding weather (sand stinging the skin or the feeling of a strong wind)
-Flashes of color to represent emotion (red for anger or similar appropriate colors that are used to describe feeling)
-an echo of surrounding voices in loud places or sounds of the wild (such as tavern commotion if it's busy or the sound of ritikki chirruping)
-Representation of the strength of the connection if I was going unconscious or sick or something similar. (the psychic link fading or flickering or whatever)

I've used all of these at least once throughout my time on arm and thought they all brought alot of good things to the way conversation.
I discussed this with an ooc friend and he gave me an example of something he did, I found this to be awesome imagery and very neat. Some might find it to be a bit to graphic, but as long as it's not spouting out assasin bobs short description I don't find anything wrong with even imagery like this.

the dude sends you a telepathic message: *A vision of laying low in the grass, looking across a verdant valley at a small pack of deadly wild gwoshi*

Duplified post

Quote from: "Majikal"I don't even mind details such as seeing through someones eyes.. or getting a glimpse of a location, I dislike the use of short descriptions completely though.

...

the dude sends you a telepathic message: *A vision of laying low in the grass, looking across a verdant valley at a small pack of deadly wild gwoshi*

I think those really are straying solidly into mindbender territory personally though hopefully we'll get some Imm guidelines soon as to precisely what is and isn't acceptable.

Quote from: "Majikal"the dude sends you a telepathic message: *A vision of laying low in the grass, looking across a verdant valley at a small pack of deadly wild gwoshi*

This should only be possible by psionicists.  Like I said, I'll make a player complaint every time unless the staff actually makes an official announcement saying that this is okay.

So why are you announcing it? It sounds like you are threatening others who don't see eye to eye with you on this matter and are trying to bully people into doing it your way without the staff having made some prior decision on the matter as to what is acceptable. Seems to me that instead of whining to the staff repeatedly just because -you- disagree with it you should sit back and wait for an answer. Whining repeatedly to them is only going to annoy staff members and piss off those interacting with you should they get wind of someone complaining. (When there hasn't been anything announced officially one way or another on this particular subject.)

Some people believe it is going too far into the realm of psionicists. Unless your are -forcing- someone to think something instead of sending a mental image, I completely disagree. But I will sit and wait for a staff decision one way or another as I can see how it could be a huge grey area for some people who only see The Way as a simple text message that gets around language barriers.

Quote from: "spawnloser"

Quote from: "Majikal"the dude sends you a telepathic message: *A vision of laying low in the grass, looking across a verdant valley at a small pack of deadly wild gwoshi*

This should only be possible by psionicists.  Like I said, I'll make a player complaint every time unless the staff actually makes an official announcement saying that this is okay.

I don't really follow the logic implied here, maybe it's because I'm still so new to the game and its peculiar way of thinking. If people communicate in words without images.... how does, say, a desert elf who doesn't speak sirihish manage to talk with a city merchant who only speaks the sirihish?

Most people, if not everyone, are perfectly capable of holding an image in their minds. I'm not going to go into an in depth explanation of dreams, pictures, and nerve endings. But since Way is simply a transfer, then why not flashes of pictures too? After all, no one said it has to be 100% accurate. Brain interpretate things differently.

It may seem rude to most, but any complaints directed at me for using pictures simply gets ignored. (not that I actually use it) Until an immortal announce somewhere that images are the evil realm of the mindbenders. Or even better, someone comes up with an argument that makes sense to a newbie. ^_^

I'm not trying to bully anyone.  I'm just explaining how much I feel that it is abuse...enough to warrant a player complaint every time in order to bring it to staff attention.

Also, don't characterize player complaints as whining simply because you don't agree with the person making the complaint.  Considering that noone making a complaint will be told much other than that their request has been resolved, if I got that message and saw another (even by the same person) send an image through the way, I would make another complaint...UNTIL THE STAFF SAYS IT'S OKAY TO DO SO, as I said earlier.

Still, as I said in my earlier post...I won't explain myself further as I do not want to ruin the mystery for others by revealing things that shouldn't be revealed.  In fact, I'm done arguing with you, as to do so any longer would require me to reveal things to you so that you could understand where I'm coming from.

Seriously, if someone says, "Look, dude, I can't tell you why, but that is code abuse.  If you want to do it, get the staff to say it's okay," why argue with him?  Go ask the staff if it's okay...you've more to lose by doing something bad than by not doing something good, yes?

I'm just saying that it's whining because:

1) We know they are aware of this and they have commented somewhat on it in this thread.

2) We also know, that so far they have not announced a staff standpoint on this specific subject. We have not been told one way or another about it yet.

Knowing this, if you choose to continue sending complaints every time someone does it until they make an announcement or policy regarding it what are you doing exactly? What purpose does it serve other than to knowingly and intentionally be obnoxious or attempt to bully others who do it (when it has not been said to be wrong by the staff -yet-) into stopping for fear of one player whining about it?

Actually, you're wrong...they said they are discussing the general concept of the so-called psi-emote and whether such is (or will be) allowed at all.  They never said they were discussing sending images specifically.

You're also taking what I said too literally.  Reread what I said in my last post.  Whenever something is resolved through the request tool (this includes player complaints), the person making the request is told it is resolved.  If the staff is undecided on something, they will not resolve those particular requests/complaints.  When resolved, either the person will be told to cut it out, or I will be told that the staff position is that it is okay for the person to send images through the Way.

I'm not going to make repeated complaints about one person while previous complaints about that one person for the same thing are yet unresolved.

This has been added to help contact.

QuoteSome people choose to portray images or their own feelings over a psionic link and this is left to the discretion of the player.  However, forcing emotions, sensations, or thoughts onto the receiver is not acceptable.

Quote from: "Raesanos"This has been added to help contact.

QuoteSome people choose to portray images or their own feelings over a psionic link and this is left to the discretion of the player.  However, forcing emotions, sensations, or thoughts onto the receiver is not acceptable.

What about portraying an image of someone (ie sdesc)?  Any discussion of that?

Quote from: "Marauder Moe"

Quote from: "Raesanos"This has been added to help contact.

QuoteSome people choose to portray images or their own feelings over a psionic link and this is left to the discretion of the player.  However, forcing emotions, sensations, or thoughts onto the receiver is not acceptable.

What about portraying an image of someone (ie sdesc)?  Any discussion of that?

The helpfile deliberately does not go through all the various specific cases. It says that its up to the discretion of the player except in the exception given.

Guess no more player complaints about sending images!  Deep breaths spawnlower, everyone relax.  There's plenty more to bitch about DISCUSS.

So how about that psi emote?

Sweet. I would've hated to see a strict ruling making them bland and unimaginative. I think it leaves more room for creativity without going too far that way. It's exactly how I have always played it.

Quote from: "Raesanos"

Quote from: "Marauder Moe"

Quote from: "Raesanos"This has been added to help contact.

QuoteSome people choose to portray images or their own feelings over a psionic link and this is left to the discretion of the player.  However, forcing emotions, sensations, or thoughts onto the receiver is not acceptable.

What about portraying an image of someone (ie sdesc)?  Any discussion of that?

The helpfile deliberately does not go through all the various specific cases. It says that its up to the discretion of the player except in the exception given.

I'm forced to conclude, then, that you're saying Waying a precise image of someone is acceptable.

>psi *an image of the tall, muscular man*  This is your target.  Two large if I have his head by the end of the month.

Yes, I'm with Moe.  Whether my chracter can do it or not relies on two things...whether I think my character can do it, AND whether the staff says it is okay.  By not saying, "Yes, it is okay," or, "No, it is not okay," we are left with a vague notion where it sounds almost like...we the players get to decide policy...and on an individual, changing basis even.  I don't like that.  I just want a simple yes or no response to: "Is it okay to send images through the way?"

QuoteI'm forced to conclude, then, that you're saying Waying a precise image of someone is acceptable.

Since you'd like me to be explicit about this specific example I will do so.  The unqualified use of the term "images" is intended to mean any images, even of people, even as sdescs.  So yes, your example is allowed.

Though the addition to the helpfile is brief, it does comprehensively state our stance which was thoroughly discussed beforehand.