Quote from: "talus"For having parents with professions such as Templar and noble, would you have to ask for any sort of permission to do that or get it set it up? I'm guessing that even being a bastard child of one of those two types of people would confer some privileges, but I may be wrong.

Yes.  Clear up your background with whatever immortal runs the clan that you wish to put in your background, or the MUD account if for some reason you don't know which immortal to ask.

I think I'm sort of on Cuusardo's side here. It seems more artful to me not to go around telling people outright that you're a thief or assassin in Tuluk. While you might not get looked down on for being open about it--you'd probably be more admired if everyone suspected you were a thief/assassin but didn't really know.

Broom maker
Tool maker
shoemaker
latrine cleaner
Public latrine attendant

Quote from: "Barzalene"Public latrine attendant

Is that the person who wipes noble's asses? Because that's another good (!) job.

Quote from: "spawnloser"In a culture that prizes subtlety, I would suggest that claiming to be a thief is very unsubtle.

Yes. In the same way, claiming to be a bard, or a kankherd, or a wagon-maker is also unsubtle, because stating what you do honestly isn't one of those things that you can be "subtle" about. However, I expect many people even in Tuluk will give honest answers to the question, "What do you do?", especially if they're proud of their talents.

Thievery is a licensed profession. While there's scope for much subtlety in its exercise, there's no need for a thief to be any more coy about admitting to her occupation than the bard or kankherder are about theirs - unless, of course, the thief doesn't feel competent enough to steal from a victim who knows she's a thief, and wants to make the person she's speaking to one of her victims. A true Tuluki professional thief should have the wit and subtlety to act more or less unhindered even when suspected, even if the crude amateurs are ashamed to introduce themselves as thieves.

Quote from: "Quirk"Yes. In the same way, claiming to be a bard, or a kankherd, or a wagon-maker is also unsubtle, because stating what you do honestly isn't one of those things that you can be "subtle" about. However, I expect many people even in Tuluk will give honest answers to the question, "What do you do?", especially if they're proud of their talents.

Isn't being not discovered part of a good thief's occupation? A bard and a wagonmaker are professions where you want your work to be known for the sake of audience/byers, but thief, well... They might want to make themselves known for similar reasons, but I think just telling people that "I steal crap" is not very professional.

You can tell it, but be subtle.   How? Get inventive. I'm not the best person to tell how to be sneaky, but announcing your talents in public at the same level as bards or artisans is going to hurt yer bussiness.

Quote from: "MossOwl"Isn't being not discovered part of a good thief's occupation?

IMO only in places where it's illegal. And just think, if a thief can steal when everyone knows they're a thief, then they must be damn good.

As I understand it, thievery and assassination is still technically illegal in Tuluk.

Liscenses are basically officialized bribes, and if you have one you're much less likely to get punished if caught, but it's never a promise.

No, I definitely fall into the line of thinking that bragging about being a thief/assassin in Tuluk is a bad idea and extremely un-subtle.

Quote from: "Cale_Knight"As I understand it, thievery and assassination is still technically illegal in Tuluk.

Liscenses are basically officialized bribes, and if you have one you're much less likely to get punished if caught, but it's never a promise.

No, I definitely fall into the line of thinking that bragging about being a thief/assassin in Tuluk is a bad idea and extremely un-subtle.

I'm fairly certain it's more along the lines of, if you kill someone and do it 'artfully and carefully, without anyone noticing' no officials will look into it.

Same goes for thievery, as far as I know, though I'm not certain.

S'what I was brought up to know.

Right, they won't look into it. But it's still illegal. Calling attention to your illegal activities is always stupid, even if said activities are overlooked 99% of the time.

Quote from: "Cale_Knight"Right, they won't look into it. But it's still illegal. Calling attention to your illegal activities is always stupid, even if said activities are overlooked 99% of the time.

They're illegal. Definitely. Just thought I'd chime in. You're right though, it's illegal.

I will repeat that in a culture that prizes subtlety, saying, "I'm a thief," is not very subtle.  "I'm a bard," is a different sort of profession completely.  Bard's want to be famous.  You might say that thieves want to be famous, but they don't.  Thieves want to be infamous.

I think this is important to understand about Tuluk:

The definition of Illegal:

Prohibited by law.
Prohibited by official rules: an illegal pass in football.

Therefore, if something is permissible by law then it is legal.

Successful thievery is permissible.  Successful assassination is permissible.

In accordance to the law system of Tuluk, you may steal from people if you are registered.  That is not illegal since the law system allows you to conduct yourself in a certain manner.  When you step outside of that manner that is when you find yourself outside the bounds of the law structure.

Therefore, unsuccessful thievery is against the law.  Successful thievery by a licensed individual is perfectly legal.  

I'm going to use a real life example of a licensed activity to show what I mean:

Driving a car.  Everyone who drives a car is required to have a driver's license.  This license is purchased at a certain age (a test is usually conducted to determine a base level of skill).  When you drive there are rules and regulations that you must follow - and failure to follow these rules and regulations lead to legal action.  In other words, when you _fail_ at driving you are breaking the law but when you are driving successfully you are not.  If you drive a car without a license and get caught - then you've been breaking the law.  

Successful thievery is legal - it is allowed within the construct of the law system provided the stealing adheres to a basic guideline.  When the thief steps outside that guideline (ie, is unsuccessful, steals from the wrong thing, etc) then that thief becomes subject to legal action: be that a fine or death.

The same is with assassination.  Licensed assassination is legal and a preferred way of dealing with troublesome people  in Tuluk.  What is illegal is messing up an assassination and getting caught or doing an assassination that was not licensed.

Basically, the law of Tuluk allows for licensed thievery to exist and licensed assassination.  Unlicensed activity is illegal.  When a licensed individual fails to meet the rules and regulations as set out by the government then they are subject to fines.  But the activity itself is legal so long as it is done by a licensed individual and done properly.

The problem with announcing that you are a thief is that you are setting yourself up for failure.  Give it a try IG sometime when you play a thief in Tuluk and see what happens.

Quote from: "talus"I'm writing up a background for a character, and I need to assign my character's parents occupations.

What are some fairly common occupations that an average person might have that, when combined with the income of a spouse, would allow them to feed a 3 person family (themselves included) without living in abject poverty?

This was the original post in this thread.

I think it's pretty safe to say you could list thief as the occupation of one of your parents in your background in either city state. In Tuluk, you might tell people too.

"Me ol' mum? Well, she dipped into pockets. An' she was the best dip there ever was, Sun king rest 'er departed soul."

Quote from: "MossOwl"Isn't being not discovered part of a good thief's occupation?

Not being caught in the act is part of a good thief's occupation. Not being known to be a thief is not part of the occupation, but is entirely optional.

Quote from: "MossOwl"You can tell it, but be subtle.   How? Get inventive.

Um. You seem to be confusing "subtle" with "secretive"? A "subtle" telling will place it out in the open for any with the brains to understand.

Quote from: "MossOwl"I'm not the best person to tell how to be sneaky, but announcing your talents in public at the same level as bards or artisans is going to hurt yer bussiness.

I already addressed this. Of course only a confident professional will announce his talents in public, and it's unlikely that he will publicise himself as relentlessly as a bard. But, by the same token, if you're addressing someone who's let it be known he's a thief, you know that he has more than a little faith in his abilities, and if that faith is justified, he's probably highly employable.

Quote from: "spawnloser"Bard's want to be famous. You might say that thieves want to be famous, but they don't. Thieves want to be infamous.

Oddly enough, there's something being famous and being infamous have in common: whether you're famous or infamous, you're widely known. However, in Tuluk, being widely known as a thief is unlikely to result in infamy, since it's regarded as a respectable, licenced profession.

Quote from: "Cuusardo"The problem with announcing that you are a thief is that you are setting yourself up for failure. Give it a try IG sometime when you play a thief in Tuluk and see what happens.

It's only setting yourself up for failure if you're not competent enough to pull off your hits regardless. This may take considerably more ingenuity, but will build you more of a reputation.