Quote from: eska on August 06, 2024, 04:49:44 PM...

After, seeing your example and comparing it to my experience, with time your character should perform better and will probably stop seeing this happen regularly.

Damage of kicks on the other hand, skews towards too strong or too weak and needs some love and attention, and while it was not your original point it is indeed the only issue I see with kick. However, combat changes are historically hard to come by, though luckily I think the last combat overhaul set the foundation for a possible balance.

Quote from: Dresan on August 10, 2024, 10:32:38 AMAfter, seeing your example and comparing it to my experience, with time your character should perform better and will probably stop seeing this happen regularly.

I don't know what you mean by "with time". I already spent time enough to max kick. And I am pretty sure raptors are not max fighters.

Quote from: eska on August 10, 2024, 11:01:02 AM...

I'm not seeing what you are seeing but without getting into mechanics I was getting kicked a lot even with high skill, and at some point with more combat experienced things improved. That might be my own biased opinion though as I cannot see the code.

That said, I would submit a request to bug your experience and see if things are working as intended. I bugged the issues with disarm I was seeing for example, and while I won't state the outcome, I will say I was happy with the result and response. 

Accurate

Right now, high kick appears to be free damage to the opponent gated only by delay once skill is high enough. It shouldn't be!

For a time, kick was the optimal way for human warriors to kill mekillots.

There are some skills, like kick, where the skill level of that skill is only part of what matters.  High skill in kick will help you with defense against people with lower skill through just what kick does in that situation.  Otherwise, it is other things in conjunction with your skill in kick that will protect you from being kicked.

It is possible to get to a point almost nothing will land or damage you with a kick.  You just need to be good.  But not 5 day good.  More like 30 day good.

Quote from: Twilight on August 10, 2024, 09:56:27 PMYou just need to be good.  But not 5 day good.  More like 30 day good.

This.
This is the whole reason why I started this thread. What is the point of being 25 days good, when you can't dodge a 5 days good kick?

Quote from: eska on August 11, 2024, 03:18:36 AM

Quote from: Twilight on August 10, 2024, 09:56:27 PMYou just need to be good.  But not 5 day good.  More like 30 day good.

This.
This is the whole reason why I started this thread. What is the point of being 25 days good, when you can't dodge a 5 days good kick?

Because 25 days good you get kicked, and keep fighting. 5 days good you get kicked in the nuts and a dagger shoved in your throat.

Quote from: KakkarotYaBoi on August 11, 2024, 03:31:52 AMBecause 25 days good you get kicked, and keep fighting. 5 days good you get kicked in the nuts and a dagger shoved in your throat.

I recently had a character with master kick, I never noticed a reduction in damage taken based on my skill.

Quote from: eska on August 07, 2024, 01:57:31 PMActually it is not that hard IRL. If you know how to kick properly and agility and enough fighting experience, it is pretty easy to dodge and knock your opponent with one good punch to the chin. On the other hand we shouldn't compare the combat in arm with real life.

Nuh-huh

As it currently stands, without any eyes on the code or whatever checks are going down, kick appears very rudimentary, is hardly affected by armor, and with even decent strength on a human if you have high kick, you just routinely kick for insane amounts. If you have mid-to-high it's dumb. All of this, despite not being able to touch a person otherwise in combat, which is not a great thing.

Even against an equivalently skilled opponent in heavy armor, it doesn't matter. I've routinely seen kicks for 15-20% of HP and that's not with super low HP or anything.

The 30 days played argument is wrong. It's been that way forever, and yes, in the past when everyone was running around with apprentice kick or whatever, you might not have seen it much, and your high kick felt balanced, but it's not in the current days. I don't know what the fix is exactly, but I don't think kicks should do more damage, more consistently to armored opponents than the best weapons on the average swing in any equivalent PC's hands. In sword fights, people should be throwing roundhouses pretty rarely if ever. I'm on the side of it doing less damage, or at least its damage or success being pretty considerably modified by more factors.

If it should stay as it is, it should probably be moved behind other barriers. Leave it to Fighter/Soldier, remove it from other combatants in a similar way to riposte and hack, because it is LEGITIMATELY better than both of them by far.

Quote from: ABoredLion on August 14, 2024, 01:48:30 PMAs it currently stands, without any eyes on the code or whatever checks are going down, kick appears very rudimentary, is hardly affected by armor, and with even decent strength on a human if you have high kick, you just routinely kick for insane amounts. If you have mid-to-high it's dumb. All of this, despite not being able to touch a person otherwise in combat, which is not a great thing.

Even against an equivalently skilled opponent in heavy armor, it doesn't matter. I've routinely seen kicks for 15-20% of HP and that's not with super low HP or anything.

The 30 days played argument is wrong. It's been that way forever, and yes, in the past when everyone was running around with apprentice kick or whatever, you might not have seen it much, and your high kick felt balanced, but it's not in the current days. I don't know what the fix is exactly, but I don't think kicks should do more damage, more consistently to armored opponents than the best weapons on the average swing in any equivalent PC's hands. In sword fights, people should be throwing roundhouses pretty rarely if ever. I'm on the side of it doing less damage, or at least its damage or success being pretty considerably modified by more factors.

If it should stay as it is, it should probably be moved behind other barriers. Leave it to Fighter/Soldier, remove it from other combatants in a similar way to riposte and hack, because it is LEGITIMATELY better than both of them by far.

Agree with most but not the last point. Absolutely modify kick to be more sensitive to hit locations (or give feedback if it already is), take a second look at how damage is calculated and factor in armor more. Absolutely do not make it that specialized that only two classes get it.

Quote from: Jarvis on August 14, 2024, 10:21:32 PMAgree with most but not the last point. Absolutely modify kick to be more sensitive to hit locations (or give feedback if it already is), take a second look at how damage is calculated and factor in armor more. Absolutely do not make it that specialized that only two classes get it.

Yeah, my point here is that if it's not going to be changed, it should be moved. Fighter/Soldier get considerably less than Raider/Enforcer/Scout/Infiltrator as far as the 'additional' abilities. It's not even close. So if Kick is going to stay as stupid strong as it is now, it should be moved to those classes, which are the intentionally "warrior above everything" classes.

I am 100% more for seeing it adjusted and reworked instead. I'm just saying, as it is, it's absolutely stronger than hack and riposte. Riposte exhausts you completely in 5 rounds of combat, and hack is just a chance to hit, that's considerably lower than the success rate of kick.