So I didn't even know contact could fail, I honestly must have assumed people were offline a lot of the times where I actually just failed the skill.

I think it would make so much sense to at least give some kind of notification that you failed?

Instead of just
"You are unable to reach their mind."

Maybe something like
"You strain yourself as your attempt to reach their mind fails."

Pretty much all skills give you some way of knowing that you messed up, it only makes sense for us to know that we failed because of the skill?

The big issue with that, that has come up before, is then you know if the person is online or not.

If you're trying to kill someone's PC, all you need to know is that they're online. If you contact and get the "they're online but you failed to reach them" then you got them. It circumvents ONE of the reasons to use barrier.

I kinda disagree with Riev here because you can just double-tap contact (which is what I do), the chance of contact failing twice in a row is really small. But also contact being able to fail at all (I'm not talking about barrier btw) is another pain-point for new players because it doesn't really make any sense for it to have a fail chance in the first place. I honestly think the chance to fail should just be removed, I don't really understand what purpose it serves and it feels like something left-over from the time contact was a skill you had to raise.

Also I'd like to say that the amount of people trying to contact people for genuine reasons and then failing, is a lot higher than someone trying to kill people and failing it. Adding RNG to knowing if someone is online is really.. weird?

I would like to add that there shouldn't be a unique fail message if barrier stops it, it should only show if you roll a fail on your contact skill, not that your attempt was prevented.

One tangential thing is—I've encountered some rooms in seasons that block psi contact for no apparent reason. Not places that you would expect to have some kind of forcefield, just, like, shops.

I strongly support the current fail possibility for a few reasons. People use fake names, people barrier, there are other fail possibilities. If you know how or why it failed it deprives people of the chance to keep secrets and I definitely don't think you should know for sure when people are or aren't online.

Quote from: Big Red on July 09, 2024, 06:47:28 PM...for no apparent reason.

Just because one character doesn't know the reason doesn't mean there isn't a good one. The reason might be very apparent to certain characters.

For both these reasons "The Way is mysterious" exists as a principle for a reason. It is not just a convenience for meta reasons, it is a significant field of intrigue that certain roles depend on and must be balanced accordingly.

Quote from: cnemus on July 09, 2024, 07:11:35 PMI strongly support the current fail possibility for a few reasons. People use fake names, people barrier, there are other fail possibilities. If you know how or why it failed it deprives people of the chance to keep secrets and I definitely don't think you should know for sure when people are or aren't online.

We're specifically talking about the random failure chance, not barrier failure.

Quote from: Kavrick on July 09, 2024, 07:15:28 PMWe're specifically talking about the random failure chance, not barrier failure.

Yes, the current failure chance I am referring to is the random failure chance. I do not think you can consider it in isolation without the other failure chances it could be the result of. I would go further and say it should be capped at advanced for everyone except psionicists.

The error messages are designed in a way to prevent you from knowing if a character is online, if they are barriered, if you are failing the skill, if they are in a staff-only room, or any other option that might be available.

We have seen players change how they roleplay in the game and have also seen players immediately log off based on whether certain characters are online or not.

Quote from: talos on July 09, 2024, 07:28:09 PMThe error messages are designed in a way to prevent you from knowing if a character is online, if they are barriered, if you are failing the skill, if they are in a staff-only room, or any other option that might be available.

We have seen players change how they roleplay in the game and have also seen players immediately log off based on whether certain characters are online or not.

Then use barrier? You guys seem to all be arguing a very different thing than I am suggesting?

I can use "Contact name" "Contact name" "Contact name" and there you go! The chance of me failing 3 times is so low that it'll nearly never happen, people who want to game the system or abuse contact, circumvent it anyway, it isn't stopping them. You haven't fixed anything... If you guys truly want that then you should make it so that if my contact fails, I can't succeed a contact with them again for x amount of time.. But I assume we can all agree that is a bad idea?

If you want to hide your presence.. Use "Barrier".. If I don't have barrier up, maybe I don't want to hide? I feel you guys are all trying to argue for something that exists just for coded reason... Contact is a skill and (code stuff)> I honestly believe it has the same kind of fail mechanic that all skills inherit from whatever the skill class is.

So I was thinking and this change is actually better for people who want to be secretive and use barrier

I will try to contact someone 2 times, just to make sure my initial contact didn't fail. Lets say the person is trying to hide, I then make a 2nd attempt to break their barrier, that seems far worse for them, rather than me just using contact once. their barrier blocks it and then I just assume they are not there.

So overall, the change of informing player that their contact failed because of the random fail chance, would be a buff to barrier?

There are multiple ways to block a psionic contact. By changing the message, it allows metagamers even more twinky play and sort of defeats the entire purpose of using those psionic blocks in the first place.

If you fail, you fail. Treat it IC either way.

Quote from: The Lonely Hunter on July 09, 2024, 07:46:37 PMThere are multiple ways to block a psionic contact. By changing the message, it allows metagamers even more twinky play and sort of defeats the entire purpose of using those psionic blocks in the first place.

If you fail, you fail. Treat it IC either way.

Can you give an example please? It's a bit hard for me to comment on something that's obscure..

If they are offline.. Don't give a unique message.
If barrier blocks it.. Don't give a unique message.
If your (Redacted thing) stops it.. Don't give a unique message.
if X does any kind of Y to stop me.. Don't give a unique message.

If I try to contact stacy at the bar to ask for a date and fail because of random RNG.. Tell me "You fuzzled that one bud".

I feel that makes my suggestion a lot clearer hopefully?

Or just remove the RNG fail chance and keep the fail message for all other instances of people blocked it.
^
I think that is even better

The Way ways in mysterious ways.

I don't mind contact being a skill that is not infallible.. it was alot more obvious when it didn't start at master though.  So we should definitely note this in a newbie guide somewhere at least.

It would require updates, but I just hate how the way is both overpowered and useless based on meta circumstances.

Contact fail: Skill fail/fail for other/redacted reasons/offline/dead dead forever dead

"I havent talked to Amos for TWO WHOLE WEEKS but I've been pestering his mate 24/7...maybe he's sleeping, maybe he's dead?"

It would be nice if the unseen way, an inherent telepahtic ability to communicate with other people, had more echoes, offline messaging, and was more consistent.

sometimes it takes 5-6 contacts to get to someone. especially if they have barrier up.

i'd rather see the way made less reliable - hard to use in sandstorms, hard to use near the silt sea, hard to use when heavily injured, % chances to send a psi to the wrong person, etc

there's definitely code in place to limit distance for psionic powers that could be interesting...

Quote from: cnemus on July 09, 2024, 07:24:24 PM

Quote from: Kavrick on July 09, 2024, 07:15:28 PMWe're specifically talking about the random failure chance, not barrier failure.

Yes, the current failure chance I am referring to is the random failure chance. I do not think you can consider it in isolation without the other failure chances it could be the result of. I would go further and say it should be capped at advanced for everyone except psionicists.

also this. the pc might be barriered

Quote from: LindseyBalboa on July 10, 2024, 01:28:36 PMi'd rather see the way made less reliable - hard to use in sandstorms, hard to use near the silt sea, hard to use when heavily injured...

Please! Would love this. Maybe make it similar to drunk waying but maybe with different outputs to the recipient.

Quote from: Khorm on July 10, 2024, 01:59:38 PM

Quote from: LindseyBalboa on July 10, 2024, 01:28:36 PMi'd rather see the way made less reliable - hard to use in sandstorms, hard to use near the silt sea, hard to use when heavily injured...

Please! Would love this. Maybe make it similar to drunk waying but maybe with different outputs to the recipient.

I agree with this, too. I'd rather see the Way be less reliable than more reliable.

Rather than similar to drunk waying, I'd like to see it more like the language code or maybe missing/garbled words proportional to how difficult things are making it.

Quote from: MoonlitCrown on July 09, 2024, 07:50:20 PMCan you give an example please? It's a bit hard for me to comment on something that's obscure..

No, I'm sorry. The methods that I had in mind are not readily available in the help files.